P vs P drives lots of folks out of a game; just look at Shadowbane. P vs P players may tolerate a P vs E game, but P vs E players generally will not tolerate a P vs P game, at least not one in which P vs P is fairly unrestricted. Bottom line: most folks don't like to be griefed, and being ganked is being griefed.
Vanguard will crush WOW (EQ2 is already crushed). There are many, many folks out there just waiting for a P vs E game that will bring back that old pre-Luclin EQ magic.
There are a lot of people who hate pvp, WoW forced you down this road, even on a RP server pvp could still happen, something I really hated about the game.
WoW broke the mold by introducing players from pvp games into the fantasy realm, a lot of them I have to say were undesirable as they lacked any descent social skills (not saying they are all like that but merely pointing out my impression) and ravaged guilds and social groups with unspeakable behaviour. My guild had many idiots join and leave very quickly, was a total mess for a while.
The very fact Vanguard wont be attractive to those players at launch means a great deal to me. I would also rather they got pvp right and launched rule set servers for those type of players.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I am fine with no PvP, because open PvP in a level based system doesn't work. Look at the issues they have in WoW with camping and such. It's a freaking joke, if you are lvl 20 and a lvl 60 decides they are gonna take you out, that is the end of the story. It isn't a challenge at that point, either you totally over power the other player, or you can't do a damn thing. BLECH!
PvP as a contest of skill rather than lvl or gear would be way more fun, because then everyone could compete. In a lvl based system you won't get that. So unless Sigil works out a good PvP system that can get around the lvl issue, then I would rather no pvp.
I do agree that an MMORPG in this day and age needs PvP of some form implemented for it to be successful. Just look at EQ2 and their decision to not implement any PvP at all at launch. That decision cost them dearly, and now that they're installing simple dueling systems and arenas their numbers are growing.
A lot of what Iynne is saying is true, skill based PvP is always a better thing than level based. It would be nice to see two or three level 20 chars embarass a level 60. However, I do enjoy going into hostile terrority sometimes knowing there are enemies out there with human level intelligence who are fully willing, ready, and capable of hunting me down and kicking my ass. It adds excitment into the equation, but it would be nice if I had a chance if I decided to fight back when they caught me.
P.S.
With all that being said, just please make sure to keep all of the open PvP hack and murder any character of any level in any place or area at any time and take all of their money and goods wannabeleet zealot players on their seperate servers. I'm more of an RPer by heart, and the two types of players don't tend to mix in my experiences.
I just wanna say that people who bitch about pvp are carebear gamers who have no business playing mmorpg's. Being griefed is a realism, if ur out in the woods, a band of orcs controlled by me and my ganking friends CAN come along and gank you, its just a part of the life ur portraying. So if ur playin a game that has pvp, either understand that a grief can come ur way or just not even pick it up off the shelf
Well skeet, sorry to burst your bubble, but Vanguard is going to be mostly PvE for us "carebears", according to the official FAQ anyway. Don't worry though, they'll have your special kinds of servers as well. This way everyone is happy.
Originally posted by skeeter_ross thx for the info, also thx for not startin the name calling. the term "carebear" descibes a player type, not to name call
no actually it is a insult to a player that doesent like pvp. and skeet i promise not to call you 14 anymore, but please stop flaming people on this forum because they like pve. go to the wow forums and act like that, here...nobody cares.
i havent flamed anyone for liking pve. My simple statement is dont bitch about pvp when u are playing a game, or on a server that allows it, plain and simple. Just understand, if pvp is on a server, and i come up and kill, its just part of how i wanna play, all im saying is dont send me tells saying ur gonna get on ur lvl 52 mage and come kick my ass. Far as WoW goes, cant stand that fucking game, its as bad as EQ2 is.
And far as Omaha goes, what side of town u live on?
Originally posted by skeeter_ross i havent flamed anyone for liking pve. My simple statement is dont bitch about pvp when u are playing a game, or on a server that allows it, plain and simple. Just understand, if pvp is on a server, and i come up and kill, its just part of how i wanna play, all im saying is dont send me tells saying ur gonna get on ur lvl 52 mage and come kick my ass. Far as WoW goes, cant stand that fucking game, its as bad as EQ2 is. And far as Omaha goes, what side of town u live on?
fair enough lets just leave it at that, there should be a whole lot of pve only servers so you shouldnt get to many hate tells. i do know what you mean....i played on vallon zek pvp server in eq1 and i got tells all the time like that. usually they were newbs and didnt understand yet, no biggie tho...newbs allways learn eventaully.
i live in south omaha near old aksarben if you know where that is
Originally posted by skeeter_ross I just wanna say that people who bitch about pvp are carebear gamers who have no business playing mmorpg's. Being griefed is a realism, if ur out in the woods, a band of orcs controlled by me and my ganking friends CAN come along and gank you, its just a part of the life ur portraying. So if ur playin a game that has pvp, either understand that a grief can come ur way or just not even pick it up off the shelf
Well, in WoW it isn't really any realism because you can not even talk to alliance if you are horde which is quite strange when Humans, Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Dwarfs and Elfs Helped each other in the end of Warcraft 3
Explorer 93% Achiever 46% Socializer 33% Killer 26%
MorbidDeath: more or less pvp oriented than EQ? Aradune: morbid: hrm... well, same oriented, BUT we're approaching the design so PvP should be better balanced Aradune: but, we want PvP to be more fun and be more balanced Aradune: more forethought is going into it Aradune: e.g. it's still a PvE focussed game; PvP will most likely be via alternate rules servers
Yes one thing that is said to be in the works for PvP is the ability to destroy other player towns/outpost. I'm curious to know how ship battle will work on PvP servers. they actually have a lot of good sounding Ideas for PvP.
well if it is just like eq but more balanced it wont have anything like that just open pvp and zone control. no pvp only features at all, this is a pve geared game but i welcome whatever pvp environment they decide to implement.
I have mixed feelings about pvp. I think it has a time and a place. There shold always be afe zones for newbies and lowbies, unless they are true newbs and attack you 1st. But when you get to midgame and up open pvp is all right with me. But this brings up the laziness in devs. To make an open pvp work you would need to have some level of class balance, some way of rewarding the pvpers and some way to keep all the priests/defensive healers from committing suicide.
And there is also the option of making PvP and PvE servers.
I finally got sick of a certain game's pvp while playing a defensive healer type becuse my bane was the sadistic teenagers favorite class, a class that had no other use than pvp and outnumbered us 30:1 (no joke). Therefore I stress my erlier statement. Balanced class skills and eq availability will would make pvp an enjoyable and almost key feature of any game, Vanguard or otherwise.
A problem with SoH is that it is going to have some many classes. More classes and more equipment lead to unbalance and downfall of pvp.
Sorry if i repeated myself. I was typing kind of fast.
Comments
P vs P drives lots of folks out of a game; just look at Shadowbane. P vs P players may tolerate a P vs E game, but P vs E players generally will not tolerate a P vs P game, at least not one in which P vs P is fairly unrestricted. Bottom line: most folks don't like to be griefed, and being ganked is being griefed.
Vanguard will crush WOW (EQ2 is already crushed). There are many, many folks out there just waiting for a P vs E game that will bring back that old pre-Luclin EQ magic.
Well, I tried to look at this with a neutral mind, but the only thing that pops into my head is:
Can I have your stuff?
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Now there will be PVP. This is from the FAQ of the Official Site.
15.2 Will there be Player vs. Player servers?
There are a lot of people who hate pvp, WoW forced you down this road, even on a RP server pvp could still happen, something I really hated about the game.
WoW broke the mold by introducing players from pvp games into the fantasy realm, a lot of them I have to say were undesirable as they lacked any descent social skills (not saying they are all like that but merely pointing out my impression) and ravaged guilds and social groups with unspeakable behaviour. My guild had many idiots join and leave very quickly, was a total mess for a while.
The very fact Vanguard wont be attractive to those players at launch means a great deal to me. I would also rather they got pvp right and launched rule set servers for those type of players.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
There is PVP. I think that it said somewhere that there was going to be a PVP SERVER.. i'm not sure though, i'll look into it though.
And they are still underestimating peoples who want non-raiding and PvE servers.
WoW make the same mistake...try to guess why CoH initial success was big...until they bring in the Hamidon.
But guess what, with me as their most noticeable ambassador, I fear it wont happens soon...to bad, I am trying...like really hard!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am fine with no PvP, because open PvP in a level based system doesn't work. Look at the issues they have in WoW with camping and such. It's a freaking joke, if you are lvl 20 and a lvl 60 decides they are gonna take you out, that is the end of the story. It isn't a challenge at that point, either you totally over power the other player, or you can't do a damn thing. BLECH!
PvP as a contest of skill rather than lvl or gear would be way more fun, because then everyone could compete. In a lvl based system you won't get that. So unless Sigil works out a good PvP system that can get around the lvl issue, then I would rather no pvp.
Yes, I am a bit of a carebear. :P
I do agree that an MMORPG in this day and age needs PvP of some form implemented for it to be successful. Just look at EQ2 and their decision to not implement any PvP at all at launch. That decision cost them dearly, and now that they're installing simple dueling systems and arenas their numbers are growing.
A lot of what Iynne is saying is true, skill based PvP is always a better thing than level based. It would be nice to see two or three level 20 chars embarass a level 60. However, I do enjoy going into hostile terrority sometimes knowing there are enemies out there with human level intelligence who are fully willing, ready, and capable of hunting me down and kicking my ass. It adds excitment into the equation, but it would be nice if I had a chance if I decided to fight back when they caught me.
P.S.
With all that being said, just please make sure to keep all of the open PvP hack and murder any character of any level in any place or area at any time and take all of their money and goods wannabeleet zealot players on their seperate servers. I'm more of an RPer by heart, and the two types of players don't tend to mix in my experiences.
Well skeet, sorry to burst your bubble, but Vanguard is going to be mostly PvE for us "carebears", according to the official FAQ anyway. Don't worry though, they'll have your special kinds of servers as well. This way everyone is happy.
no actually it is a insult to a player that doesent like pvp. and skeet i promise not to call you 14 anymore, but please stop flaming people on this forum because they like pve. go to the wow forums and act like that, here...nobody cares.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
i havent flamed anyone for liking pve. My simple statement is dont bitch about pvp when u are playing a game, or on a server that allows it, plain and simple. Just understand, if pvp is on a server, and i come up and kill, its just part of how i wanna play, all im saying is dont send me tells saying ur gonna get on ur lvl 52 mage and come kick my ass. Far as WoW goes, cant stand that fucking game, its as bad as EQ2 is.
And far as Omaha goes, what side of town u live on?
fair enough lets just leave it at that, there should be a whole lot of pve only servers so you shouldnt get to many hate tells. i do know what you mean....i played on vallon zek pvp server in eq1 and i got tells all the time like that. usually they were newbs and didnt understand yet, no biggie tho...newbs allways learn eventaully.
i live in south omaha near old aksarben if you know where that is
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Well, in WoW it isn't really any realism because you can not even talk to alliance if you are horde which is quite strange when Humans, Orcs, Trolls, Taurens, Dwarfs and Elfs Helped each other in the end of Warcraft 3
Explorer 93%
Achiever 46%
Socializer 33%
Killer 26%
Aradune = Brad McQuaid (top man of Vanguard, and an original co-creator of EQ1)
http://vs.warcry.com/scripts/columns/view_sectionalt.phtml?site=64&id=236&colid=2081
MorbidDeath: more or less pvp oriented than EQ?
Aradune: morbid: hrm... well, same oriented, BUT we're approaching the design so PvP should be better balanced
Aradune: but, we want PvP to be more fun and be more balanced
Aradune: more forethought is going into it
Aradune: e.g. it's still a PvE focussed game; PvP will most likely be via alternate rules servers
Assistant Community Manager
Age of Conan Ten Ton Hammer
well if it is just like eq but more balanced it wont have anything like that just open pvp and zone control. no pvp only features at all, this is a pve geared game but i welcome whatever pvp environment they decide to implement.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I have mixed feelings about pvp. I think it has a time and a place. There shold always be afe zones for newbies and lowbies, unless they are true newbs and attack you 1st. But when you get to midgame and up open pvp is all right with me. But this brings up the laziness in devs. To make an open pvp work you would need to have some level of class balance, some way of rewarding the pvpers and some way to keep all the priests/defensive healers from committing suicide.
And there is also the option of making PvP and PvE servers.
I finally got sick of a certain game's pvp while playing a defensive healer type becuse my bane was the sadistic teenagers favorite class, a class that had no other use than pvp and outnumbered us 30:1 (no joke). Therefore I stress my erlier statement. Balanced class skills and eq availability will would make pvp an enjoyable and almost key feature of any game, Vanguard or otherwise.
A problem with SoH is that it is going to have some many classes. More classes and more equipment lead to unbalance and downfall of pvp.
Sorry if i repeated myself. I was typing kind of fast.