I'm looking forward to ArcheAge as much as anyone. But, I wouldn't say anything positive about the game until it is actually released. It's unfortunate that the western market has gotten more and more casual, the worst case being GW2. However, I can't see myself playing a game like Lineage 2 (at release) grinding for months and months. I'm hoping ArcheAge will be some sort of compromise.
I'm looking forward to ArcheAge as much as anyone. But, I wouldn't say anything positive about the game until it is actually released. It's unfortunate that the western market has gotten more and more casual, the worst case being GW2. However, I can't see myself playing a game like Lineage 2 (at release) grinding for months and months. I'm hoping ArcheAge will be some sort of compramise.
Don't worry. ArcheAge is not a grind. Having played it myself I suspect the extremeist will hit max cap in a few days, while the average hardcore gamer it will take a few weeks. Its not grindy at all. A buddy and me were leveling together and we made it to level 20 in the weekend it was up (also couldn't play all that much because of the time difference and servers not being up 24/7).
I am an old school gamer like my guildie and we both enjoyed AA very very much. Lots of sand to play with.
~~~~~~
As for the OP. Yea Asian style games are pushing the envelope for Graphically intensive MMO's. B&S looks great, AA looks great, TERA looks great, that new game Black Desert looks amazing etc.
We have our own games that look good over here in the west; ESO, TSW, AOC (environments), PS2. Perhaps its because most of those games in the east are utilizing CryEngine while we are trying to reinvent the wheel. We have the Unreal Engine but I don't see it being used hardly at all for MMO's in the west. I don't think we will either. I predict more Hero Engine games coming because of how cheap the licensing fee is.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I'm looking forward to ArcheAge as much as anyone. But, I wouldn't say anything positive about the game until it is actually released. It's unfortunate that the western market has gotten more and more casual, the worst case being GW2. However, I can't see myself playing a game like Lineage 2 (at release) grinding for months and months. I'm hoping ArcheAge will be some sort of compromise.
I've studied ArcheAge in-depth for a long time, and it has everything the West has been asking for. I'm not judging it until I try it but I am very hopeful that it's what I've been waiting for. It has a lot to do in it that's for sure. You can sail a ship and have ship combat, build houses, sieges, dive underwater and explore (there is even diving gear to go treasure hunting, a feature I have never seen in an MMO), when crimes are commited by players you can actually be a detective and look for clues such as blood spatters or footprints and the criminal can be identified by these clues and taken to court and most likely thrown into jail. I literlly didn't even list half the things you can do I don't think.
But yeah, that's why I'm pretty hopeful for ArcheAge.
Originally posted by Razeekster Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by RazeeksterArcheAge is the first sandbox+themepark mixed game coming out soon in Korea. Yes there have been some sandbox games here in the West, but the quality of them has been piss poor. That's one thing that I noticed in general. Graphically speaking the East has us beat. Their games are far superior in the graphics department and I don't understand why. I believe that the West has the cabalities to be right on par with them in the graphics department.It seems like the Eastern MMO industry is more accepting to funding AAA sandbox MMOs more so than the West now because another one is also being made in China called Project S. My whole focus is not meant to be on sandboxes, so you need to think that is what I'm trying to get at. I'm just noticing how the East is now developing less and less of what the West considers grindy games and going for more quality ones. I mean look at B&S and Age of Wushu. Those are also both two impressive games, with Age of Wushu introducing features that I don't think I've even heard of in other asian martial arts MMOs.What does the West have going for it in 2013... The Elder Scrolls Online? No offense but I don't believe that MMO will be as successful as a lot of people seem to think. People seem to forget that most of the time when popular IPs get turned into MMOs they don't do well a lot of times (with the exception of LotRO maybe). Not only that but TESO isn't even adding the combat which it's famous for into the MMO version and I can't see it being wildly popular simply based on the lore.The other things that the West have going for it are mostly unfinished projects backed up by Kickstarter, which until I see come to fruition I won't be putting much stock into.What do you guys think? Is the East surpassing the West when it comes to the quality of MMOs? I myself am seeing less and less of asian grinders and more and more quality looking games coming from the East (the grinders I do see coming to the West from the East have already been in the East for 4+ years and so I don't count those).
The "East" is developing games for Asian audiences, and then getting additional profits in the West. The "West" is developing games for non-Asian audiences and then getting additional profits in the East. If the Eastern developers are more accepting of something different, it's because their audience is more accepting of something different, not because they are more accepting of something different. I don't know what you mean. The West has been asking for these same features too. I just think the developers here in the West aren't willing to take as many risks.
This keeps getting brought up again and again, but it's just not true. Where are they? Playing Eve? Four hundred thousand people isn't enough to justify a twenty five million dollar development cost. Especially since those people are already playing a game they like. Where are the rest of them? On websites like this one?
There are on average two hundred people posting at any given time. Half of them like WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 2. That leaves a hundred people. There are two thousand lurkers at any given time. How many people is that on websites total? Even assuming all two thousand lurkers are all interested in games like ArcheAge or Wushu, that's what, ten thousand people? Where are the rest of them? You're still a couple million short.
The games will get made in Asia, where they will make their money, or fail like Tera did. Then they'll get released here, where they'll make some more money. They'll get released in Asia first because that's where the audience for those games exists. They'll get released here afterwards because there are enough people to justify releasing a game here after the development costs are already covered by releasing the games in Asia.
All the talk about the huge audience for sandbox style or hardcore Asian games is just that, talk. There's no proof that the audience exists anywhere outside the imaginations of the people who like those games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by elocke Originally posted by Rimmersman Some of the features in Age Of Wushu have not been seen in any MMO let alone Asia. Plus I would notput Age Of Wushuin the same category as Blade & Soul or any of your usual Asia style games. No over the top weapons childish charactes , the game is based on feudal China, no elves or dwarfs or oversized weapons in Age Of Wushu. Archeage and Age Of Wushu have features thatwwesternMMO ddevs seem scared to do or have given up on. Out of the two games it's Age Of Wushu that is the more sandbox of the two, no classes or levels, clan buildings and land ownership.
Don't get me wrong, I like Age of Wushu's underlying systems. I just can't stand the UI and controls. It's very anti mouse and keyboard movement/clicking hot bars of how I play in every other MMO since SWG. Due to that, I won't be playing it. It almost seems more suited for a controller, but I refuse to play an MMORPG with a controller on my PC. That's what my consoles are for ;D Oh and the translations so far are just horrible, but they still have time to polish that, IF they choose to, which seems to rarely happen with imports that aren't AAA companies. I think Square-Enix is the only eastern company who truly knows how to translate their games and even then there is the odd remark or comment in their dialogs.
That's one of my nitpicks too. If you're making a game for the computer why the heck does it play better when used with a controller? Make it for other gaming systems if that's what you're going to do.
I never felt that it was more suited to a controller, in fact the above post is the first person I have read to say that. The UI takes some getting used to and translation of needs tweaking. After the first few hours it felt natural and was never an issue, if the UI and the translation is all that needs rounding off before release then it says a lot about just how good the game is. The features in the game blow western features out of the water just like Archeage has some great features. I'll have ten beta key's next week, anyone who wants to see for themselves can have one.
Thank you to the few people in this thread who were able to constructively look at the premise of this thread and discuss it without going into the incredibly hypocritical, hipster anti-american rhetoric. I'll leave it at that.
On-Topic :
I don't think the East is beating the West in regards to mmo development, I don't think its possible for one hemisphere to beat the other in this regard. Like others have said the mmo's being made are being made for their respective markets, there is some sucess on both sides of the world for crossing into each others.
Thank you to the few people in this thread who were able to constructively look at the premise of this thread and discuss it without going into the incredibly hypocritical, hipster anti-american rhetoric. I'll leave it at that.
On-Topic :
I don't think the East is beating the West in regards to mmo development, I don't think its possible for one hemisphere to beat the other in this regard. Like others have said the mmo's being made are being made for their respective markets, there is some sucess on both sides of the world for crossing into each others.
More easterners play western games then westerners play eastern MMOs.
I think that defines us as winning.
When our games appeal to them more then their games appeal to us.
World of Warcraft/League of Legends/StarCraft2 while not all MMO are online and have mass appeal in all Asian markets, name me one game that is nearly as played like this from the Asian Market?
The "East" certainly is kicking out more games, and ones with nice graphics, but hasn't that always been the case? The difference seems to be that there are a few with more substance than what is typically expected. The better graphics as a whole just means there are better engines available to purchase.
Korea, which is where a lot of Eastern MMOs come from, is very integrated with technology as a country. When you consider they have cafes with wall to wall people as a social hangout it's not surprising that more money is spent on games.
We'll have to see what 2013 brings. 2012 was the year of GW2 and TSW and I'm hardpressed to find any eastern games to compare them too. If EQN releases this next year we may just trump again.
Thank you to the few people in this thread who were able to constructively look at the premise of this thread and discuss it without going into the incredibly hypocritical, hipster anti-american rhetoric. I'll leave it at that. On-Topic :I don't think the East is beating the West in regards to mmo development, I don't think its possible for one hemisphere to beat the other in this regard. Like others have said the mmo's being made are being made for their respective markets, there is some sucess on both sides of the world for crossing into each others.
I think it's more to do with western devs and publishers that are afraid to think outside the box, it seems that some Asian devs are. You have to remember that western devs are under pressure to follow the money train. SOE will not be in that situation with EQ Next.
Originally posted by RazeeksterArcheAge is the first sandbox+themepark mixed game coming out soon in Korea. Yes there have been some sandbox games here in the West, but the quality of them has been piss poor. That's one thing that I noticed in general. Graphically speaking the East has us beat. Their games are far superior in the graphics department and I don't understand why. I believe that the West has the cabalities to be right on par with them in the graphics department.It seems like the Eastern MMO industry is more accepting to funding AAA sandbox MMOs more so than the West now because another one is also being made in China called Project S. My whole focus is not meant to be on sandboxes, so you need to think that is what I'm trying to get at. I'm just noticing how the East is now developing less and less of what the West considers grindy games and going for more quality ones. I mean look at B&S and Age of Wushu. Those are also both two impressive games, with Age of Wushu introducing features that I don't think I've even heard of in other asian martial arts MMOs.What does the West have going for it in 2013... The Elder Scrolls Online? No offense but I don't believe that MMO will be as successful as a lot of people seem to think. People seem to forget that most of the time when popular IPs get turned into MMOs they don't do well a lot of times (with the exception of LotRO maybe). Not only that but TESO isn't even adding the combat which it's famous for into the MMO version and I can't see it being wildly popular simply based on the lore.The other things that the West have going for it are mostly unfinished projects backed up by Kickstarter, which until I see come to fruition I won't be putting much stock into.What do you guys think? Is the East surpassing the West when it comes to the quality of MMOs? I myself am seeing less and less of asian grinders and more and more quality looking games coming from the East (the grinders I do see coming to the West from the East have already been in the East for 4+ years and so I don't count those).
The "East" is developing games for Asian audiences, and then getting additional profits in the West. The "West" is developing games for non-Asian audiences and then getting additional profits in the East. If the Eastern developers are more accepting of something different, it's because their audience is more accepting of something different, not because they are more accepting of something different.
I don't know what you mean. The West has been asking for these same features too. I just think the developers here in the West aren't willing to take as many risks.
This keeps getting brought up again and again, but it's just not true. Where are they? Playing Eve? Four hundred thousand people isn't enough to justify a twenty five million dollar development cost. Especially since those people are already playing a game they like. Where are the rest of them? On websites like this one?
There are on average two hundred people posting at any given time. Half of them like WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 2. That leaves a hundred people. There are two thousand lurkers at any given time. How many people is that on websites total? Even assuming all two thousand lurkers are all interested in games like ArcheAge or Wushu, that's what, ten thousand people? Where are the rest of them? You're still a couple million short.
The games will get made in Asia, where they will make their money, or fail like Tera did. Then they'll get released here, where they'll make some more money. They'll get released in Asia first because that's where the audience for those games exists. They'll get released here afterwards because there are enough people to justify releasing a game here after the development costs are already covered by releasing the games in Asia.
All the talk about the huge audience for sandbox style or hardcore Asian games is just that, talk. There's no proof that the audience exists anywhere outside the imaginations of the people who like those games.
"Where are they? Playing Eve?" Um, excuse me? I am one of these players and have zero interest in Eve so that is not true at all. I also am not interested in WoW or RIFT, I played Guild Wars 2 for a bit but realized it really wasn't that dramatically different and got bored of it soon afterwords.
There is indeed a fact an audience for these types of players. You don't see us because we don't just all play "Eve" like you seem to think.
I suppose if you are consumed by eastern culture then YES we are. Personaly not a SINGLE game has come out of the east that appeals to me in any way.
Dont like the art styles
Dont like the music
Dont like the animations
Dont like the sound effects
Dont ike the combat
Dont like the quest content or writing
Dont like their use of textures lighting etc.
So basically nothing
If your saying the ONE up and coming game that might possibly not suck (Archage) means we are getting beat game design wise than thats a pretty silly statement.
You didn't read my whole post... The whole focus wasn't at all on ArcheAge or sandboxes which if you had read my whole post, it clearly even stated as much.
Sorry if I wasnt clear then, I was combining stuff from multiple responses to your original post. I dont feel the East is doing anything but making annoying games based on my bullet points. The final sentence was in response to someone saying yes we are losing it, look at Archage.
I suppose if you are consumed by eastern culture then YES we are. Personaly not a SINGLE game has come out of the east that appeals to me in any way.
Dont like the art styles
Dont like the music
Dont like the animations
Dont like the sound effects
Dont ike the combat
Dont like the quest content or writing
Dont like their use of textures lighting etc.
So basically nothing
If your saying the ONE up and coming game that might possibly not suck (Archage) means we are getting beat game design wise than thats a pretty silly statement.
You didn't read my whole post... The whole focus wasn't at all on ArcheAge or sandboxes which if you had read my whole post, it clearly even stated as much.
Sorry if I wasnt clear then, I was combining stuff from multiple responses to your original post. I dont feel the East is doing anything but making annoying games based on my bullet points. The final sentence was in response to someone saying yes we are losing it, look at Archage.
It's not just ArcheAge. Look at Age of Wushu, look at B&S, look at Black Desert, look at Mabinogi II: Arena, look at Project S... I'm hopeful for World of Darkness in the West, but that's about it.
the west, particularly the region between th Atlantic and Pacific tends to be very fickle and trendy and ... unstable.
Pretty spot on.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I suppose if you are consumed by eastern culture then YES we are. Personaly not a SINGLE game has come out of the east that appeals to me in any way.
Dont like the art styles
Dont like the music
Dont like the animations
Dont like the sound effects
Dont ike the combat
Dont like the quest content or writing
Dont like their use of textures lighting etc.
So basically nothing
If your saying the ONE up and coming game that might possibly not suck (Archage) means we are getting beat game design wise than thats a pretty silly statement.
You didn't read my whole post... The whole focus wasn't at all on ArcheAge or sandboxes which if you had read my whole post, it clearly even stated as much.
Sorry if I wasnt clear then, I was combining stuff from multiple responses to your original post. I dont feel the East is doing anything but making annoying games based on my bullet points. The final sentence was in response to someone saying yes we are losing it, look at Archage.
It's not just ArcheAge. Look at Age of Wushu, look at B&S, look at Black Desert, look at Mabinogi II: Arena, look at Project S... I'm hopeful for World of Darkness in the West, but that's about it.
I have looked at all the games you mentioned, and again see my original list. I just dont like the way the East makes game. The all play look and play like kids games. Like in the 8 to 12 year old range. And not just kids but kids that have grown up in the East. There is just nothing there for me. Allot of American kids today were raised on Eastern influenced cartoons and games, I was not. So to me it just looks like kids stuff.
If you dont think Asia is the new super power yet your just doubting yourself they are the new num 1 nation, is this a bad thing? No why would it be who cares. If they start to make the better games there will be english versions of these games just like there are dif language versions of our popular games. We all like to have fun I dont see whats the problem with them being more advanced they always have been more advaned with electronics they brought us the Nintendo and beyond why any1 would think the next best game wouldnt have something to do with asian development is beyond me. There is a reason blizzard has a headquarters in korea.
When you say Western, you must be referring to the US, disregarding the quality, the EU has produced EvE, Salem, MO and Darkfall, none, of which are like the standard US themeparks.
"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs
Originally posted by ObiClownobi When you say Western, you must be referring to the US, disregarding the quality, the EU has produced EvE, Salem, MO and Darkfall, none, of which are like the standard US themeparks.
Europe often seems to be the forgotten part of the west in many of these discussions, which is a shame because the amount of variety in both MMOs and RPGs that come from Europe is amazing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Razeekster "Where are they? Playing Eve?" Um, excuse me? I am one of these players and have zero interest in Eve so that is not true at all. I also am not interested in WoW or RIFT, I played Guild Wars 2 for a bit but realized it really wasn't that dramatically different and got bored of it soon afterwords.There is indeed a fact an audience for these types of players. You don't see us because we don't just all play "Eve" like you seem to think.
ArcheAge cost twenty five million dollars to produce. Including yourself, and every person on these forums who wants ArcheAge to get made, you need another million people or so for a game like ArcheAge to get developed and released in the U.S. or Europe.
I keep hearing about this audience, but there's nothing to indicate it has a significant number of people, other than forum posts like these saying it has a significant number of people. I'm sure there is an audience for games like ArcheAge in the West, but it's not big enough to warrant actually producing something like ArcheAge in the West.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by ObiClownobi When you say Western, you must be referring to the US, disregarding the quality, the EU has produced EvE, Salem, MO and Darkfall, none, of which are like the standard US themeparks.
Do you really want to include Mortal Online in that list? It's certainly different, but it's also certainly a piece of cr@p.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Asian games look 10 times better than western games. They are grindy as hell and rely on RnG way too much though. If western games catch up to Asian games in pure eye candy, keep their chart and skill based game play they will run Asian games over. On the other side, if Asian games get away from the RnG and move toward loot tables and skill based, charted progress paths, they will eat western MMO's up.
Both sides have something people want. Both sides have something people want to avoid as well.
Originally posted by ObiClownobi When you say Western, you must be referring to the US, disregarding the quality, the EU has produced EvE, Salem, MO and Darkfall, none, of which are like the standard US themeparks.
Do you really want to include Mortal Online in that list? It's certainly different, but it's also certainly a piece of cr@p.
Lol agreed. Concepts were / are not bad but actual realistation / implementation is utter crap in MO.
Asian games look 10 times better than western games. They are grindy as hell and rely on RnG way too much though. If western games catch up to Asian games in pure eye candy, keep their chart and skill based game play they will run Asian games over. On the other side, if Asian games get away from the RnG and move toward loot tables and skill based, charted progress paths, they will eat western MMO's up.Both sides have something people want. Both sides have something people want to avoid as well.
Ermm, Age Of Wushu has no classes or levels, it's skill based.
Asian games look 10 times better than western games. They are grindy as hell and rely on RnG way too much though. If western games catch up to Asian games in pure eye candy, keep their chart and skill based game play they will run Asian games over. On the other side, if Asian games get away from the RnG and move toward loot tables and skill based, charted progress paths, they will eat western MMO's up.
Both sides have something people want. Both sides have something people want to avoid as well.
Ermm, Age Of Wushu has no classes or levels, it's skill based.
So was TSW but the skills were all vanilla versions of each other and it ended up being a gear grind.
Comments
I'm looking forward to ArcheAge as much as anyone. But, I wouldn't say anything positive about the game until it is actually released. It's unfortunate that the western market has gotten more and more casual, the worst case being GW2. However, I can't see myself playing a game like Lineage 2 (at release) grinding for months and months. I'm hoping ArcheAge will be some sort of compromise.
Don't worry. ArcheAge is not a grind. Having played it myself I suspect the extremeist will hit max cap in a few days, while the average hardcore gamer it will take a few weeks. Its not grindy at all. A buddy and me were leveling together and we made it to level 20 in the weekend it was up (also couldn't play all that much because of the time difference and servers not being up 24/7).
I am an old school gamer like my guildie and we both enjoyed AA very very much. Lots of sand to play with.
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As for the OP. Yea Asian style games are pushing the envelope for Graphically intensive MMO's. B&S looks great, AA looks great, TERA looks great, that new game Black Desert looks amazing etc.
We have our own games that look good over here in the west; ESO, TSW, AOC (environments), PS2. Perhaps its because most of those games in the east are utilizing CryEngine while we are trying to reinvent the wheel. We have the Unreal Engine but I don't see it being used hardly at all for MMO's in the west. I don't think we will either. I predict more Hero Engine games coming because of how cheap the licensing fee is.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I've studied ArcheAge in-depth for a long time, and it has everything the West has been asking for. I'm not judging it until I try it but I am very hopeful that it's what I've been waiting for. It has a lot to do in it that's for sure. You can sail a ship and have ship combat, build houses, sieges, dive underwater and explore (there is even diving gear to go treasure hunting, a feature I have never seen in an MMO), when crimes are commited by players you can actually be a detective and look for clues such as blood spatters or footprints and the criminal can be identified by these clues and taken to court and most likely thrown into jail. I literlly didn't even list half the things you can do I don't think.
But yeah, that's why I'm pretty hopeful for ArcheAge.
Smile
I don't know what you mean. The West has been asking for these same features too. I just think the developers here in the West aren't willing to take as many risks.
This keeps getting brought up again and again, but it's just not true. Where are they? Playing Eve? Four hundred thousand people isn't enough to justify a twenty five million dollar development cost. Especially since those people are already playing a game they like. Where are the rest of them? On websites like this one?
There are on average two hundred people posting at any given time. Half of them like WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 2. That leaves a hundred people. There are two thousand lurkers at any given time. How many people is that on websites total? Even assuming all two thousand lurkers are all interested in games like ArcheAge or Wushu, that's what, ten thousand people? Where are the rest of them? You're still a couple million short.
The games will get made in Asia, where they will make their money, or fail like Tera did. Then they'll get released here, where they'll make some more money. They'll get released in Asia first because that's where the audience for those games exists. They'll get released here afterwards because there are enough people to justify releasing a game here after the development costs are already covered by releasing the games in Asia.
All the talk about the huge audience for sandbox style or hardcore Asian games is just that, talk. There's no proof that the audience exists anywhere outside the imaginations of the people who like those games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Don't get me wrong, I like Age of Wushu's underlying systems. I just can't stand the UI and controls. It's very anti mouse and keyboard movement/clicking hot bars of how I play in every other MMO since SWG. Due to that, I won't be playing it. It almost seems more suited for a controller, but I refuse to play an MMORPG with a controller on my PC. That's what my consoles are for ;D Oh and the translations so far are just horrible, but they still have time to polish that, IF they choose to, which seems to rarely happen with imports that aren't AAA companies. I think Square-Enix is the only eastern company who truly knows how to translate their games and even then there is the odd remark or comment in their dialogs.
That's one of my nitpicks too. If you're making a game for the computer why the heck does it play better when used with a controller? Make it for other gaming systems if that's what you're going to do.
I never felt that it was more suited to a controller, in fact the above post is the first person I have read to say that. The UI takes some getting used to and translation of needs tweaking. After the first few hours it felt natural and was never an issue, if the UI and the translation is all that needs rounding off before release then it says a lot about just how good the game is. The features in the game blow western features out of the water just like Archeage has some great features. I'll have ten beta key's next week, anyone who wants to see for themselves can have one.Thank you to the few people in this thread who were able to constructively look at the premise of this thread and discuss it without going into the incredibly hypocritical, hipster anti-american rhetoric. I'll leave it at that.
On-Topic :
I don't think the East is beating the West in regards to mmo development, I don't think its possible for one hemisphere to beat the other in this regard. Like others have said the mmo's being made are being made for their respective markets, there is some sucess on both sides of the world for crossing into each others.
More easterners play western games then westerners play eastern MMOs.
I think that defines us as winning.
When our games appeal to them more then their games appeal to us.
World of Warcraft/League of Legends/StarCraft2 while not all MMO are online and have mass appeal in all Asian markets, name me one game that is nearly as played like this from the Asian Market?
Korea, which is where a lot of Eastern MMOs come from, is very integrated with technology as a country. When you consider they have cafes with wall to wall people as a social hangout it's not surprising that more money is spent on games.
We'll have to see what 2013 brings. 2012 was the year of GW2 and TSW and I'm hardpressed to find any eastern games to compare them too. If EQN releases this next year we may just trump again.
I think it's more to do with western devs and publishers that are afraid to think outside the box, it seems that some Asian devs are. You have to remember that western devs are under pressure to follow the money train. SOE will not be in that situation with EQ Next."Where are they? Playing Eve?" Um, excuse me? I am one of these players and have zero interest in Eve so that is not true at all. I also am not interested in WoW or RIFT, I played Guild Wars 2 for a bit but realized it really wasn't that dramatically different and got bored of it soon afterwords.
There is indeed a fact an audience for these types of players. You don't see us because we don't just all play "Eve" like you seem to think.
Smile
Sorry if I wasnt clear then, I was combining stuff from multiple responses to your original post. I dont feel the East is doing anything but making annoying games based on my bullet points. The final sentence was in response to someone saying yes we are losing it, look at Archage.
It's not just ArcheAge. Look at Age of Wushu, look at B&S, look at Black Desert, look at Mabinogi II: Arena, look at Project S... I'm hopeful for World of Darkness in the West, but that's about it.
Smile
Pretty spot on.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sometimes I think the studios in that region spend more money on marketing than on actually building what the marketing department promises.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I have looked at all the games you mentioned, and again see my original list. I just dont like the way the East makes game. The all play look and play like kids games. Like in the 8 to 12 year old range. And not just kids but kids that have grown up in the East. There is just nothing there for me. Allot of American kids today were raised on Eastern influenced cartoons and games, I was not. So to me it just looks like kids stuff.
"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs
Europe often seems to be the forgotten part of the west in many of these discussions, which is a shame because the amount of variety in both MMOs and RPGs that come from Europe is amazing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
ArcheAge cost twenty five million dollars to produce. Including yourself, and every person on these forums who wants ArcheAge to get made, you need another million people or so for a game like ArcheAge to get developed and released in the U.S. or Europe.
I keep hearing about this audience, but there's nothing to indicate it has a significant number of people, other than forum posts like these saying it has a significant number of people. I'm sure there is an audience for games like ArcheAge in the West, but it's not big enough to warrant actually producing something like ArcheAge in the West.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you really want to include Mortal Online in that list? It's certainly different, but it's also certainly a piece of cr@p.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Asian games look 10 times better than western games. They are grindy as hell and rely on RnG way too much though. If western games catch up to Asian games in pure eye candy, keep their chart and skill based game play they will run Asian games over. On the other side, if Asian games get away from the RnG and move toward loot tables and skill based, charted progress paths, they will eat western MMO's up.
Both sides have something people want. Both sides have something people want to avoid as well.
Lol agreed. Concepts were / are not bad but actual realistation / implementation is utter crap in MO.
Ermm, Age Of Wushu has no classes or levels, it's skill based.
So was TSW but the skills were all vanilla versions of each other and it ended up being a gear grind.
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