traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP Will defitnyl kill this game just as fast as any other themepark endgame game in the past years. So while Im not a 100% leet pvp'er I would hope that they are so smart as to make a dynamic dungeon system whitin the central pvp zone were people can go in at random and do personal dungeon at their current level.
would make sure theres like 666 dungeon entrances else we will have 2000 "grievers" camping the entrances. but cant imagen more fun then sneaking true the lands finding dungeons and avoiding enemy's or fight some off on the ocasional simulair dungeon exit / finding timing ..
Progression should be on large land masses the farther in you go and the deeper down secret chambers the harder it gets. The harder it gets better resource type items will drop and help you unlock new things. Make it so that it takes a long time not to level but to find the items. Carebears will whine but when you have to work really hard for finding something that not everyone has its very rewarding.
[QUOTE] I'm sorry Bill, but you're just flat out wrong. GW2 has already proven that the whole "lateral" progression model only works for a fairly small subset of the MMO playerbase. The one problem you came up with is a pretty major problem. Most rogue type players for example wouldnt be caught dead wielding a mace in one hand and a sword in the other. So to suggest that its a meaninful method of progression for them is reaching, badly. Also, to be fair, no one style or mix of weapons can be overly strong vs another and this means that basically you have no real reason to get these other skills other than A. You want to, or B. You don't like the playstyle of your current weapons.
Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of. It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to. That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it. Just as an example.
That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept. These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts. They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.
MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on everything except this..
[QUOTE]Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.[/QUOTE]
No matter how long you make it take to reach end game/max level, there will always be those few that have to get there before everyone else. I mean hell, there were max level characters within a weeks time after EQ was released. I forget his name, he was a member of Fires of Heaven, and shortly after him the guild he was in had a few more maxed out characters running around. It happens and there is not really a way around it.
I miss the old days of EQ. I wish they would bring back EQ's death penalty in a game. You actually learned to play your class and pay attention in EQ due to the possibility of looseing your character!
I think im one of only a few who thinks that their trailer looks amazing and that they are trying to keep it very elder scrolls ish theres no way to keep all people happy but until we have tried should we be ripping it to shreds ive been trying for years now to find a game that keeps me coming back as much as EQ2 , I played SWOTOR for about 4 to 5 months and loved it the pvp was good the dungeons and class quests but they messed up on the bits that keep you their when you have maxed out mainly Crafting which was rubbish still i think they switched to the ftp ptp whatever you want to call it to early i think (and i know this would be asking a lot ) that any new mmos coming out should have an expansion out within a year not the normal 2 years if this could be done then might keep people interested enough to hang on to their subs a bit longer people eat up content at a incredible rate these days i dont see any reason to make lvling to slow people will get frustrated or bored but i see no reason why you cant draw out crafting maybe like eq or vanguard add player housing and guild halls and you have something to work on when you have maxed out on raids ,pvp etc anyway these just my thoughts i keep trying till i find the perfect game for me in the meantime its back to EQ2 thanks for reading
Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of. It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to. That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it. Just as an example.
That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept. These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts. They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.
MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.
You hit it on the head. These companies need to bring back the MMO in MMOs. Themed-park level progression just doesn't work. Players blow through all of the content in 1-3 months and are done. Due to the fact that the entirety of games now days is just about 100% theme-parked, game developers just can't keep up with the players anymore.
I hate to say it, but if the industry is going to survive they need to bit back meaning to these games. In the old days (prior to WoW), when you earned a level, you really felt like you earned a level.
Yes, there was a grind, but it had meaning and the chance of rewarding the grinders with semi-rare items if one was patient.
Yes, there were death penalties, but it made a community responcible to itself and helped to forge friendships that are still stong today with alot of players.
Yes, you had to "find" a quest (or at least look it up) out in the middle of nowhere rather than just going to a camp that contained all the quests for a zone right there for your convienance.
Yes, there was very little content to solo, but it was a freakin MMO, not a game that you just happened to play solo with 1000s of other people simutaniously on the same server at the same time.
And yes, these games were punishing (to a fault), but players took it as a challenge and kept coming back for more.
Disagree? That's fine. This is just my opinion after leading Guilds and gaming for over the last decade. Many players that have been gaming longer than me may well disagree also. But before you disagree, think about this..... Almost every game that has launched since WoW is either barren of players after a couple years (if that), or dead and gone
Wish i had a few hundred million to design a game.
You know, one game that does have my attention not neccessarily for the actual game, but for the concept is Neverwinter Nights Online. Granted i'm an ex-pencil/paper player, but i think that they've hit on some thing and that's launching with user created content.
The foundry is a brilliant idea imo. It allows players to create content at game launch, freeing up the developement team to concentrate on fixing bugs and working on the future expansions. I literally think that the concept, as they are implimenting it could result in a paradiem shift in the gaming industry within the next couple years.
NWO may, or may not become a hit, but a future game certain could using the same philosophy.
Bill you are trying way too hard with this game..............give us video footage and we will make our mind
Too much talk and not enough evidence.
There is no point in over hyping this game, we all know that this game will sell 2+ Million copies already.
The point is, is it going to retain those players after the first month?
No amount of hype can keep players playing if their first month was disappointing.
ESO has to be more Skyrim and less WOW to succeed, that's as simple as that.
At the moment it looks like a mix between SWTOR and GW2 from the information released so far (even if some of them are twisted to make some features look better then they are)
There is already a huge design flaw in my view, the real game should be between level 1 and lvl 49 (the Journey as in every TES game)................it should not start at 50 like every other MMO
Zenimax are losing their chance to revolutionize the MMO industry, the same way Bethesda did with TES for the RPGs with their unconventional approach that makes TES so different from any other RPG on the market.
Settling down for another WOW with a twist, just won't cut it.
I'd much rather it be more like Daggerfall than Skyrim.
Another horse with blinkers on, they think by throwing money at something it will work, it doesnt and hasnt.
This is what happened when businessmen try to make games. When Governments try to imprive a health service and when developers think remaking the genre will beat everything else.
It's nice to see one other way that this game isn't a WoW clone based on Tamriel, but just because you can wear any armor/weapon and need to skill up every weapon (which USED to exist in WoW before they decided it was too tedious and did away with it)... I'm still not sold.
This game is going to fail so hard until they can list 20 compelling ways this game is 180 from WoW. Right now, they have about one and a half.
If it is a traditional themepark MMO, and it totally will be, then there is only one way to have progression. The traditional gear grind+level increase+outdated zones. Everything is funneled into that idea.
Unlocking weapon abilities as progression....hmmm, where have I seen that one before. Ah, yes. Guild Wars 2. Yeah, that one worked out well.
They screwed up, they know it. There is nothing they can do about it. This game started development probably 5 years ago when copying WOW was a good idea. All of a sudden there is a massive change over the past two years where these games are trashed and fail. They release their info about the game, and the game is universallly trashed unlike any other MMO before release.
You know as well as I do that they are up there in there little Bethesda office looking nervously at each other.
This is good though. The time for major changes in a games play IS BEFORE LAUNCH.
I agree with you when the game was first announced and details were released I saw it as a WoW cloe in elder scrolls lore. Since then however many changes have been announced that seem to distance ESO from WoW, and I have become hopefull if not totally a believer, One can only hope the Vethesdia devs continue to mix thinsg up a bit and deviate from the wow sstandard so that the released ESO is its on game, and worthy of the name.
Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)
I utterly despise raids and grinding for gear.
The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.
What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH? You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it. Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.
I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.
The Devs used it all
SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists. <G>
All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch
I genuinely admire the enthusiasm given in the columns, previews, and reviews written for this outlet, but I feel like I've read similar articles for games like TOR. I'm not saying there's some underlying motive for this to happen, but I think there needs to be a more objective, perhaps more cynical, editorial representation on this site.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)
I utterly despise raids and grinding for gear.
The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.
What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH? You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it. Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.
I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.
The Devs used it all
SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists.
All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch
Originally they said it was 'too hard'. If they do patch it in post launch expect it to be instanced and shallow.
As for the game (as an on/off DAOC player for over 10 years) I hope we see the next generation DAOC set in an Elder Scrolls world.Give me that wonderful DAOC type RVR...and I'm set for years to come.
I've watched that video from start to finish a few times. I literally take nothing away from it. It is neither Elder Scrolls or anything new for the MMO genre. It is a total rehash of existing systems and gameplay from OLD MMOs. So just take another IP and trash it.. Just like we have Conan, Star Wars, Star Trek and everything else under the sun. Eventually there will be nothing left to burn. Its already to late for ESO... all of the core systems are laid out and every single one of them stinks of the same crap we have seen for the past decade.
Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)
I utterly despise raids and grinding for gear.
The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.
What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH? You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it. Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.
I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.
The Devs used it all
SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists.
All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch
Originally they said it was 'too hard'. If they do patch it in post launch expect it to be instanced and shallow.
That would be horrible. I really enjoyed UO housing and crafting. I am not a great PVP player (old man) but I do enjoy games. I don't mind getting killed and looted as long as I have some way to avoid it. In UO I used stealth and hiding.
I was also a miner and crafter, I repaired armor and weapons at Brits forge for tips
Never had to join a guild , but had many friends and socialized a lot.
OHH I miss those days.
I guess my point is that end game/progression does not = raids/gear.
Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)
I utterly despise raids and grinding for gear.
The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.
What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH? You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it. Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.
I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.
The Devs used it all
SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists.
All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch
Haha funny stuff. I never used Skooma in game.
Hopefully if they do impliment player housing the system will be robust.
Comments
traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP Will defitnyl kill this game just as fast as any other themepark endgame game in the past years. So while Im not a 100% leet pvp'er I would hope that they are so smart as to make a dynamic dungeon system whitin the central pvp zone were people can go in at random and do personal dungeon at their current level.
would make sure theres like 666 dungeon entrances else we will have 2000 "grievers" camping the entrances. but cant imagen more fun then sneaking true the lands finding dungeons and avoiding enemy's or fight some off on the ocasional simulair dungeon exit / finding timing ..
If they have dungeons in cyrodil, I'm guessing they are open ones not instances.
Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of. It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to. That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it. Just as an example.
That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept. These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts. They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.
MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on everything except this..
[QUOTE]Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.[/QUOTE]
No matter how long you make it take to reach end game/max level, there will always be those few that have to get there before everyone else. I mean hell, there were max level characters within a weeks time after EQ was released. I forget his name, he was a member of Fires of Heaven, and shortly after him the guild he was in had a few more maxed out characters running around. It happens and there is not really a way around it.
I miss the old days of EQ. I wish they would bring back EQ's death penalty in a game. You actually learned to play your class and pay attention in EQ due to the possibility of looseing your character!
/shout Need help breaking FEAR!!
----------------------------
Omol da'Ox
Cyrodil is instanced lol, Instances inside instances? inception much?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I'm looking forward to it.. ESO Sounds alright to me 8)
You hit it on the head. These companies need to bring back the MMO in MMOs. Themed-park level progression just doesn't work. Players blow through all of the content in 1-3 months and are done. Due to the fact that the entirety of games now days is just about 100% theme-parked, game developers just can't keep up with the players anymore.
I hate to say it, but if the industry is going to survive they need to bit back meaning to these games. In the old days (prior to WoW), when you earned a level, you really felt like you earned a level.
Yes, there was a grind, but it had meaning and the chance of rewarding the grinders with semi-rare items if one was patient.
Yes, there were death penalties, but it made a community responcible to itself and helped to forge friendships that are still stong today with alot of players.
Yes, you had to "find" a quest (or at least look it up) out in the middle of nowhere rather than just going to a camp that contained all the quests for a zone right there for your convienance.
Yes, there was very little content to solo, but it was a freakin MMO, not a game that you just happened to play solo with 1000s of other people simutaniously on the same server at the same time.
And yes, these games were punishing (to a fault), but players took it as a challenge and kept coming back for more.
Disagree? That's fine. This is just my opinion after leading Guilds and gaming for over the last decade. Many players that have been gaming longer than me may well disagree also. But before you disagree, think about this..... Almost every game that has launched since WoW is either barren of players after a couple years (if that), or dead and gone
Wish i had a few hundred million to design a game.
Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !
You know, one game that does have my attention not neccessarily for the actual game, but for the concept is Neverwinter Nights Online. Granted i'm an ex-pencil/paper player, but i think that they've hit on some thing and that's launching with user created content.
The foundry is a brilliant idea imo. It allows players to create content at game launch, freeing up the developement team to concentrate on fixing bugs and working on the future expansions. I literally think that the concept, as they are implimenting it could result in a paradiem shift in the gaming industry within the next couple years.
NWO may, or may not become a hit, but a future game certain could using the same philosophy.
Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !
I'd much rather it be more like Daggerfall than Skyrim.
Player housing and a robust crafting is all I need as an end game to make me continue to play for a long time. (Toss in some rare collectablies)
I utterly despise raids and grinding for gear.
The devs have stated there are no plans for player housing.
What? An Elder scrolls game with no PH? You gave it to us in Oblivion and Skyrim and I enjoyed it. Don't recall if it was available in Morrowind.
I am guessing that Skooma won't be available also.
The Devs used it all
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
Another horse with blinkers on, they think by throwing money at something it will work, it doesnt and hasnt.
This is what happened when businessmen try to make games. When Governments try to imprive a health service and when developers think remaking the genre will beat everything else.
Had enough!
It's nice to see one other way that this game isn't a WoW clone based on Tamriel, but just because you can wear any armor/weapon and need to skill up every weapon (which USED to exist in WoW before they decided it was too tedious and did away with it)... I'm still not sold.
This game is going to fail so hard until they can list 20 compelling ways this game is 180 from WoW. Right now, they have about one and a half.
This is good though. The time for major changes in a games play IS BEFORE LAUNCH.
I agree with you when the game was first announced and details were released I saw it as a WoW cloe in elder scrolls lore. Since then however many changes have been announced that seem to distance ESO from WoW, and I have become hopefull if not totally a believer, One can only hope the Vethesdia devs continue to mix thinsg up a bit and deviate from the wow sstandard so that the released ESO is its on game, and worthy of the name.
SKooma is a illegal drug, while MMO's may have gratuitous violence and Boose they may never have Drugs or sex of any kind as this will corrupt impressionable school children and keep them from reaching their potential as mass murders, and high school terrorists. <G>
All kidding aside I thought I read the Devs say they were planning on player housing after launch just not with launch
Getting really sick of hearing that.
Some kind of tack on afterthought.
Not buyin it.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
Bill, regarding longevity:
What else is there to do in the game other than kill things?
How does the game's longevity relate to your article, Content Locusts Aren't the Problem, from a couple of weeks ago?
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally they said it was 'too hard'. If they do patch it in post launch expect it to be instanced and shallow.
Thanks for the article Bill. More please !
As for the game (as an on/off DAOC player for over 10 years) I hope we see the next generation DAOC set in an Elder Scrolls world.Give me that wonderful DAOC type RVR...and I'm set for years to come.
That would be horrible. I really enjoyed UO housing and crafting. I am not a great PVP player (old man) but I do enjoy games. I don't mind getting killed and looted as long as I have some way to avoid it. In UO I used stealth and hiding.
I was also a miner and crafter, I repaired armor and weapons at Brits forge for tips
Never had to join a guild , but had many friends and socialized a lot.
OHH I miss those days.
I guess my point is that end game/progression does not = raids/gear.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
Haha funny stuff. I never used Skooma in game.
Hopefully if they do impliment player housing the system will be robust.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415