Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
My Honest opinion
HydroPwnics
Member Posts: 7
I really love the LOTR series and by series I meant the BOOKS not the cheap-ass Hollywood rip-off Movies. that being said I nearly pooed myself when I first heard about this game... But, the lack of player strife in Tolkien's world seems to completely violate everything about Middle Earth... I'm not going to completely rule LOTRO right now due to the dismal PvP aspect I've seen to date - i will play it no matter what, but for how long depends on whether or not a feasible PvP/siege system can succsessfully be implemented into this game.
And, the only feasible way to implement PvP in this game and stay within the boundaries of tolkien's creation would be to implement a playable Evil side. This would most likely come through as an expansion, like CoH and CoV. Anyone who's ever delve deeply into Tolkien's lore by reading "The Red Book" and others of the like would know that Humans, Dwarves, and even Elves are sometimes swayed to the side of evil, this could, eventually (Based upon an alignment system) have a Human player fighting on the side of Evil. I personally am a pro-pvp sort of player, as I believe that it takes more skill to deafeat a Human Brain then a Computer Program... but, that being said, I do also understand that in 99.9% of games ganking = BAD. Maybe not for me personally but to a community it is crippling.
Basically what I would like to see happen is an implementation of the Evil side which is player controlled. This would open up an unlimited amount of PvP for eveyone that enjoys it. The devs would of course have to zone out the game world (I think a system like WoW's wouldn't be a horrible idea) Making it so that everything from... Bree to the western coast was Good-friendly, I would rather see this severly hamper a Evil characters PvP abilities but, not rule it out completely... I'd imagine the same for the Evil side, from the Black Gate and all the lands of Mordor would hold these same penalties to Goodly characters.
If an Evil side were to be implemented I'd would have to assume that there would be a "seige" element applied to the game, either through player owned Villages and towns to Player built Castles - Maybe even 100% new player built villages and eventually cities! o.o
I understand that this won't please everyone and I'd really like to see some more imput, there are a few flaws that even I see with what I've said but, that may just lead to someone else creativivity expanding upon that idea...
There's a bunch more i'd like to talk about but, I really feel like doing something else right now so I'll check back later I guess. :P
-Hydro-
Comments
As a player, I feel I can get along quite well without PvP. I've gotten into it, had fun with it, but it doesn't drive my game-play style. But not including an Evil playable race did surprise and, frankly, disappoint me. I just don't see how the dev's can expect every player to run around as well-meaning heroes. There are just too many people out there that either enjoy the 'bad-boy' thing, role-playing the darker aspects of the psyche, or have fun blowing off steam as an evil sum-biatch after a hard day dealing with middle-management.
Another poster here pointed out, rightly so, a good reason for there being no evil race: The orcs of the Eye had no autonomy. They were completely beholden to Sauron for everything, including their motivation. If you recall at the end of RotK, when Barad-dur falls, the hordes split, because Sauron no longer controlled them. How could you give a player control of an Orc and still stay within the constraints that Tolkien Enterprises has set down. The orcs of the Hand however, showed much more autonomy. They were bred to be stronger, more intelligent. Heh, even to run in sunlight. So there are options, but it seems that the pesky Tolkien Estate is the stumbling block.
I just don't see how the game can really evolve without a playable Evil race. People are just going to want to play as one. In another discussion here in these forums, it was pointed out to me that apparently the question of alignment in the game, at launch at least, will be a really subtle thing. What you as a player do in game will affect how the game world at large will interact with you. So instead of having a strict black and white divide between a good person and bad person, your actions will determine how light or dark your 'greyness' is. At least that's what I got out of it. Should be interesting. And if they can pull that off, seamlessly and transparently, it could be great.
But one of the big things that is all over Tolkien's lore is also being ignored here: A racial divide between Dwarves and Elves. Perfect grounds for at least RvR. The dev's have dropped a couple of very small hints that the PvP issue will be addressed, it just won't appear as is 'traditionally' seen in other mmos. We'll see.
As for Sieging, I'm not sure there's really a place for it as the game is being explained to us now. What you're saying, the ability to create player cities, to include citadels/castles would be incredible. I'd love to see something with that scale. But I think it may be a drop in the wishing well.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Since you cant play as a Evil race in this game I really dont see where PvP would be appropriate. Sure the different nations of Men fought each other but that was only during wars.
Now we all know that PvP in Middle Earth would simply be an opportunity for a player to play outside his role and grief others. I just cant see members of the good races attacking each other unless there was a War. Having griefer Elves killing other Elves for no reason just wouldnt be Middle Earth.
If they implemented Evil races then it would be awesome to have RvR.
Heck the fact that those pesky little dwarves, with their nasty beards and unkempt clothing, always hammering and smelting and making a mess........er, anyways, given the fact that dwarves and elves don't exactly invite each other over for dinner or anything, there's some natural RvR right there.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Heck the fact that those pesky little dwarves, with their nasty beards and unkempt clothing, always hammering and smelting and making a mess........er, anyways, given the fact that dwarves and elves don't exactly invite each other over for dinner or anything, there's some natural RvR right there.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Actually that poster is incorrect about the total lack of will of those who server Sauron. Many of his minions are totally under his control through rings or his directing the force of his will upon them but many of them act of their own accord when not under his direct control. For example the numerous instances of orcs killing eachother such as at the Tower of Cirith Ungol. Saruman, who is initially influenced by Sauron through one of the Palantirs eventually tries to take the ring for himself. Also there are evil people who are NOT servants of Sauron who serve their own evil purposes. Examples of free people killing eachother exist as well such as the Dwarves of Nogrod killing Thingol and sacking Menegroth, and the Kinslayings. I personally prefer well thought out PVP with strict faction controls and penalties for kinslaying. Ones that insure that if you gank you will eventually be an outcast amoung your own people. It CAN be done if the makers care enough to do it.
I can accept a well done PvP. But through experience I've grown quite cynical about the matter. Especially when kids are playing.
Okay I respect everyone else's feelings on PvP and I'd never say that a person is stupid for wanting it. But I think it's important to remain in role when it comes to playing a mmo. What type of role are you playing if you're a Hobbit that kills other Hobbits on a daily basis? Are you going to say that you're a serial killer? Now I can understand if you get in a bar fight with another Hobbit and maybe one kills the other. But it wont be like that. PvPers hunt other players on a daily basis. With Hobbits killing one another it'll be sheer Anarchy.
I totally agree with you and I would NEVER do that myself. I might play a Dwarf or a man who would kill and Elf or an Elf who would kill even another elf. There would have to be very specific reasons for me to do it. In another post I pointed out that faction hits based on kinslaying should be different from race to race. As a Hobbit you should be outcast and totally unable to go to any Hobbit or good city after killing only one or two other hobbits. But say as a man you would have a lot more leeway esecially since men often make war or kill eachother. Orcs (if ever allowed) would have to kill a LOT before they took a significant faction hit. Here is an example of how I roleplayed PVP in Everquest. I played a character who belonged to a guild, I often helped out other members of the guild even distributing found items to younger members and healing them when they needed help. I was in the guild for about two months when I was assaulted, robbed and left for dead by a magic weilding Ogre who took a nice ring the guild leader had personally given me for helping out the guild. I never cried "Ganker" or whined about it. I roleplayed the situation going to the guild leader and telling him that I had been robbed of his personal gift and that the situation demanded vengence. The guild leader however refused saying that he didn't have time to "baby-sit" members (he didnt really roleplay even though I continued to). Outraged my character quit the guild and swore a blood oath against his former mates. From then on out that character (who never killed others of his kind of for no reason) killed any member of that guild that he came across, roleplaying every minute of it (even up to the point of announcing my presence in a zone when I saw members of the guild on the /Who list). I never corpse camped or did repeated kills on the same session and while they were probably angry at being attacked many of them recognized that it was being roleplayed and even had fun with it. I killed over 40 members of the guild before I quit and they never caught me once despite setting many traps for me. That was some of the most fun I ever had in an MMORPG.
You Sir, are an RPer to the hilt.
Unfortunately, there aren't enough players that advocate PvP with your sense of style and mature RPing. It's the foolish little tots that PvP for the most ridiculous of reasons, usually to anger or frustrate the other player, that give the PvP community a bad name, and turn my stomach enough to resist playing in PvP zones or on PvP servers.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Thanks for the compliment and I agree there are age issues involved. One solution could be to have an over 30 server with roleplayed PVP and a complex faction system. The answer to having an economically viable MMORPG it seem is to appeal to ALL MMORPGers. I thought EQ did a nice job of having servers with different PVP rules. I agree that most thoughtful roleplayers will choose non pvp servers but surely there are at least a couple of thousand Roleplayers who like story based pvp out there?
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
Well, I suppose there would be no sure fire way to know for sure but I think you might be able to offer a younger age bracket server that was for people 24 and younger only. You could require that the name of the player match the name on the credit card and put the word ADULT real big in the billing info if any account had a character on that server so that any parent who WAS paying for their kid would be REAL interested in what exactly was going on if they hadnt been told. There are probably other ways of furhter screening out kids.
heh. I like the idea of putting adult in the billing info.
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"
"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me...Blow."--Ash, "Army of Darkness"