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[Column] General: Who Will Make The Epic Fantasy Game?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
A lot of interested eyes are pointed squarely at Star Citizen to see if the crowd funding method will produce a 'worthy' MMO. In Garrett's latest column, he explores whether how this method could possibly work and set a new precedent for the industry. Read on!
In the era of MMOs we have seen games like EverQuest, Ultima Online, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot come into play before World of Warcraft. In the post Warcraft era many games have been going after large known names to have a success. Games like Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, and Star Wars: The Old Republic all followed this formula. While I like all of those game, few MMOs really branch out to build their own fantasy worlds. DarkFall is one that stands out for its appraoch to making a game set in their own world with a sandbox environment.
Read more of Garrett Fuller's Who Will Make The Epic Fantasy Game?
Comments
If Darkfalls on the right track then the genre really is doomed. I mean hell they didn't even have a working playable build ready by their second missed released date, and lets add the whoel custmer service of 'Oh thats right we were supposed to release today. Funny thing that we kinda figured last week there was no way we could get the game working, and probably should beta test so we won't be releasing today, however feel free to pre-order so you can pay to beta test out game."
The big name companies of course will never attempt such a feat. EA? please they still think subscription cost was the reason SW:Tor tanked.
Blixxard with their lets make WoW more casual and dumb it down so players have one A,B<C choice every 10 levels.. Bah not gonna happen,
I'd say our only hope lies with the kickstarter crowd thats not afriad to make a PC game tyhat used the pc's strengths rather then all the companies currently aming to dumb things down for the consules limitations (ie CCP / dust)
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
THIS is the most epic FANTASY GAME:
http://wollay.blogspot.com/
The only thing about Darkfall that stood out was it was a badly written Indie game. Fortunately they realized that and had the money and time to rewrite it.
It would be nice if someone could do such a thing in a fantasy world. It can't be a themepark though. And no, Pathfinder is not it, that is just a very poorly written game, just like the original Darkfall.
"I guess the main question is will it work? Well, yes if you include a few major elements to MMOs that have been missing as of late. The biggest would be player housing."
Oh, you got me! I thought this wasn't a joke (or a personal opinion of some random guy mis-using his/her status as an "interwebz blogger/journalist"). Good one!
Without getting my nose too brown, there's been some great features by the mmorpg.com crew lately...
I think the excitement over Star Citizen looks set to come good. But I also think it's easier to design a "sci-fi galaxy" IP than a "fantasy world". The world should be more granular and more fractal in levels of detail etc. Also it means the assets are lot heavier with all that landscape and people instead of space and ships? Finally IP's such as Games Workshop or LOTRs have had several and more decades to get all these details right. Maybe an IP in a fantasy is therefore saving time on all that and leveraging good quality of a refined vision and artistic style (as well as a ready-built market)?
The problem is fitting IP's to boring designs or fitting designs to IP's that are not "fit" for those IP's. eg Cable TV of Thrones: Why Game of Thrones Doesn't Work as a Game
= Social interaction, creating and changing & influencing the game world - seem to be the key to mmorpgs imo.
Odd how UO started the ball rolling, then it stopped for so long (apart from a few). Possibly players chose more "game" than "simulation" in mmorpgs as that is generally "more gratification more quickly" than the sort of "work" that is required to learn and enjoy EvE?!
But possibly a mix of the IP in a suitably "uncarved block" of a section of that IP's world (risk of sounding like a broken record) this question came up recently:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Well the progression element has yet to be addressed. Raiders like dungeons but instanced dungeons turn it into more of lan party than a mmo. Equal distribution of PVP, PVE , Battleground, RVR and Crafting gear needs to be spread over the entire player base and not restricted to one playstyle. Then make those components dependant on each other.
Fable did a lot of things right that needs to be copied, roaming NPCs that remember you and you can deal with, and colorful specs and skills. There is too much homiginization of skills so mmos can be esports, I could care less about Esports. If I wanted Esport I would play RTS games.
There needs to be non combat specs and classes pure merchants or merchant based professions. Just like the old LP mud rpg games like Batmud, actually just copy batmud.
Also fantasy mmorpgs need to copy the EVE online model into a fanasy setting, players want to own their own property, siege equiptment, npc hirelings, have contract and land disputes you name it, it needs to be translated over into fantasy and not the single player skill spam homoginized garbage they pass off as mmo rpgs these days.
I think the gauntlet in this case falls to indie companies. Big publishers just want to stick with what's already been tried, innovation is just too risky. Citadel of Sorcery for example takes a step in the right direction for being the next epic fantasy as it introduces more variables to quests which we haven't seen before in MMO, like tracking enemies, knocking them out and capturing them to question them, NPCs could lie to you, knock you out and capture you, imprison you, you get to disguise yourself, sneak around, try to trick your enemies, spread rumors, create diversions, make NPC friends and enemies which are unique to you and the list goes on.
Epic has more to it than "stuff does a lot of damage which you need to survive". When a player's strategy extends beyond the realm of simple combat things can get much more exciting. I mean, when you see an NPC asking for help and have to analyze things to decide if they actually do need help or trying to trick you into an ambush, things tend to get every bit more exciting.
Almost all mmo making now have a grand budget that low population can't keep them open... then there is the other risk, theme park, sandbox or a hybrid style, but going by numbers theme park seems to provide the highest return in short and long term.. sandbox might just be the next big thing, or a hybrid BUT what level of the market are you looking to capture...
I don't mind trying to aim high with projections on what your trying to accomplish, but they all can't have a large market share and for heck stop trying to beat Wow numbers or having numbers like them..
On that note, the next good fantasy game is wild star, just feel it.. It isn't trying to be grand in numbers but the style is more accepting to a larger audience..
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Boy, I think someof you folks, in years to come, are going to be embarrased by your wholehearted swallowing of the Star Citizen Hollywood fluff. Even cursory research reveals a number of long delayed projects, money wastage, and undelivered features in these guys' past. Roberts' movie production does not speak of good judgement or creativity to me. Especially for someone who was widely viewed by his company's co-workers as prefering making movies to making games.
Maybe you'll get a half decent space FPS, but for the rest.....don't hold your breath.
Sadly, most fantasy worlds are not that creatively done, and that's before you even get to game fantasy worlds. Making good, open fantasy world games is not easy to do, and not easy to continue to develop and run. Cross your fingers and support the ones that you do find to your liking.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Good thoughts to consider. With Jumpgate, Black Prophesy etc all burning, the space for SC is wide open, so it's already going to surf on top of that wave of being better/different from other space rpgs/mmo-ifieds.
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Agree about fantasy world need to be developed to a high level of detail and standard. But it's not the IP -> design that's the major problem (you could say Games Workshop might have caused problems but even that pales), it's Design -> IP that is going wrong; looks like the same thing but the IP SHOULD BE FLEXIBLE eg take a corner of the world that's sandbox/exemplary etc - it can easily be done. But the design of themepark mmorpg to every IP just does not fit eg WAR: Each faction is separate! Creating destro vs order was incredibly bad move when viewing 2-faction themepark -> Warhammer IP eg. Even taking mmorpg, a back step or two, perhaps RTS is better fit? etc etc.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I think when UO introduced the concept of "player housing"... what was so charming/alluring about it was it was an actual PLACE. You could leave Britan or Skae-Brae... and go to your house. You had a key for it that you had to protect like your own first born. It was a place you could run to if an enemy player was attacking you and save yourself.
It was where you could store your loot when your bank ran out. It was where you could safely duel a friend. It was where you could practice skills like magery without fear of being killed or pick pocketted.
Lastly, if you owned a house... you literally owned that piece of the MMORPG. It was a part of the massive world that was yours and yours alone.
It seems so often developers who get focused on Player Housing think that if they deliver some instanced house with a few hundred design options, that it satisfies all the feelings of old school housing. Ever since UO, every bit of "housing" in any MMO I've ever played is just pointless fluff, since it's not meaningful.
If an MMO wants to rekindle that UO-housing feel, they need to really take a look at what made it special, and it wasn't just the ability to decide if the floors were wood or stone.
He wasn't saying it is . . "was probably" . . suggesting there were parts that were.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I don't think blizz would be crazy to make another theme park fantasy game. They risk killing there own stuff..
What I think though is that because wow has become so accessible, if there next mmo isn't half as such they'll have it rough regardless of selling a lot..
Person might fail to realize, but most that are playing a mmo nowadays wants almost a finish product feel... Person hardly want to stick around long enough to grow with the game, regardless of how quick one gets to max level..
Blizzard cannot be trusted yet,they made literally millions and Wow is stil la cheap looking effort missing content that even Archeage will have upon release.Yes they did license a reputable game engine,which is a step in the right direction,but that means very little,what you do with it matters more.The OBVIOUS choice IF you plan on going epic is to license the Unreal tech engine,they did not,tha ttells me they got a deal and are already cutting corners.
I do give Blizzard a chance however, a little more than some other devs but not as much as the other big devs.
I look forward to AA but i agree,it will not be the EPIC game we look for.
SOE imo houses a lot of qualified people under their roof but many are making games for their console divisions.The other major problem is Smedley is going all out cash shop,he has given up going for mass numbers.Smedley instead is banking on a product that will attract B2p players or big spenders.It means less servers,less overhead a larger profit margin.SOE=cash shop=fail.
If i was to go Epic it would be with EPIC games or perhaps Valve [half life].
After losing their shirt on FFXIV,Sqaure the biggest player in this market,won't be going Epic again for a very long time.
Few other notables like Rockstar who has made a lot of money and i simply do not trust EA.None of the other developers in the MMORPG market can deliver,i am 90% positive of that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.