Originally posted by Robokapp maybe it's not pay to win, but how expensive is it to enjoy? that's what I care about...
There is only one way to find out. If you don't enjoy, then guess what? Yep, you know the answer. Besides, how much did you have to pay even to play a subscription game (yes about $15 a month plus box price)? I'm not saying a you should spend about $15 a month to get enjoyment out of PS2, however I AM saying that you probably won't have to hardly spend anything at all unless you want to.
Self testimony time: I have spent $0 becuase I actually prefer the untility of the default weapons. Cosmetics are not worth spending becuase camo patterns don't actually work as camo patterns. I can kill someone wearing a snow pattern camo on snowy terrain just as easily as the guy wearing urban camo, and I'm not left impressed or envious of what they were wearing as they died to my hand.
I agree, all this P2W whining crap is annoying to see. The game is not P2W, it is quite literally F2P, imo the first F2P that is truly FREE to play. You have the same chances just as a sub does or dude that bought 10K station cash worth of crap. In the end it's all about tactical knowledge and placement.
Upgrade it through certifications, not purchased through the store - you cannot buy cert points. A membership of £9 or about $14.99, will grant you a 25% bonus to certificate gains. You can buy boosts, but the membership also gives 500 station cash which can buy you about 10 days worth of exp bonus. However the counter on the boosts continues while logged off, so the bonuses are very small.
The guns are ALL sidegrades, take the infiltrator class, the snipers come in three grades, the close, medium, and long range. The long range snipers are bolt actions or semi autos, which SUCK up close. The close range is the scout rifles which are much more effective at close range but TERRIBLE at long range.
Everything in this game, every gun, every cert comes with an upside and a downside. Buy a 2 shot burst rifle for the medic class? Lose out on your CQC possibilities. Cert it with a supresser? Lose out on long range shots.
If you believe that the game is pay to win you simply haven't played it enough yet, you don't understand it, or you have a bee in your bonnet about free to play in general.
Just a last note, I have free to play, because most stores are cons, most involve some kind of pay to win, Planetside 2 at most could be called a pay to progress faster game.
If a game has a cash shop it is P2W. This is a business model that is built on allowing players to advance their characters from microtransactions. It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
Upgrade it through certifications, not purchased through the store - you cannot buy cert points. A membership of £9 or about $14.99, will grant you a 25% bonus to certificate gains. You can buy boosts, but the membership also gives 500 station cash which can buy you about 10 days worth of exp bonus. However the counter on the boosts continues while logged off, so the bonuses are very small.
The guns are ALL sidegrades, take the infiltrator class, the snipers come in three grades, the close, medium, and long range. The long range snipers are bolt actions or semi autos, which SUCK up close. The close range is the scout rifles which are much more effective at close range but TERRIBLE at long range.
Everything in this game, every gun, every cert comes with an upside and a downside. Buy a 2 shot burst rifle for the medic class? Lose out on your CQC possibilities. Cert it with a supresser? Lose out on long range shots.
If you believe that the game is pay to win you simply haven't played it enough yet, you don't understand it, or you have a bee in your bonnet about free to play in general.
Just a last note, I have free to play, because most stores are cons, most involve some kind of pay to win, Planetside 2 at most could be called a pay to progress faster game.
If a game has a cash shop it is P2W. This is a business model that is built on allowing players to advance their characters from microtransactions. It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
Originally posted by Dysmetria In my experience, P2W is the excuse those that do not pay and lose use.
Hahahaha. No. Exteel. Most of the pay items in that game, and you were able to get atleast double the amount of kills, and last twice as long as someone who did not pay. So no.
Second, the pay to earn certs faster is a bit more of a problem, but it's less so also. It allows players to get better weapons faster to get better kills, which can kill the enthusiasm of a player that does not pay, since then it's less rewarding to play,
8:00 mins in shows the difference in acquisition rate, and the rate is quite ridiculous.
Also why should I pay for this game, which basically took any spunkgargleweewee game's multiplayer and just made it bigger?
The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.
Upgrade it through certifications, not purchased through the store - you cannot buy cert points. A membership of £9 or about $14.99, will grant you a 25% bonus to certificate gains. You can buy boosts, but the membership also gives 500 station cash which can buy you about 10 days worth of exp bonus. However the counter on the boosts continues while logged off, so the bonuses are very small.
The guns are ALL sidegrades, take the infiltrator class, the snipers come in three grades, the close, medium, and long range. The long range snipers are bolt actions or semi autos, which SUCK up close. The close range is the scout rifles which are much more effective at close range but TERRIBLE at long range.
Everything in this game, every gun, every cert comes with an upside and a downside. Buy a 2 shot burst rifle for the medic class? Lose out on your CQC possibilities. Cert it with a supresser? Lose out on long range shots.
If you believe that the game is pay to win you simply haven't played it enough yet, you don't understand it, or you have a bee in your bonnet about free to play in general.
Just a last note, I have free to play, because most stores are cons, most involve some kind of pay to win, Planetside 2 at most could be called a pay to progress faster game.
If a game has a cash shop it is P2W. This is a business model that is built on allowing players to advance their characters from microtransactions. It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Upgrade it through certifications, not purchased through the store - you cannot buy cert points. A membership of £9 or about $14.99, will grant you a 25% bonus to certificate gains. You can buy boosts, but the membership also gives 500 station cash which can buy you about 10 days worth of exp bonus. However the counter on the boosts continues while logged off, so the bonuses are very small.
The guns are ALL sidegrades, take the infiltrator class, the snipers come in three grades, the close, medium, and long range. The long range snipers are bolt actions or semi autos, which SUCK up close. The close range is the scout rifles which are much more effective at close range but TERRIBLE at long range.
Everything in this game, every gun, every cert comes with an upside and a downside. Buy a 2 shot burst rifle for the medic class? Lose out on your CQC possibilities. Cert it with a supresser? Lose out on long range shots.
If you believe that the game is pay to win you simply haven't played it enough yet, you don't understand it, or you have a bee in your bonnet about free to play in general.
Just a last note, I have free to play, because most stores are cons, most involve some kind of pay to win, Planetside 2 at most could be called a pay to progress faster game.
If a game has a cash shop it is P2W. This is a business model that is built on allowing players to advance their characters from microtransactions. It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
Hell, even WoW has a cash shop. You can buy nice shinny pets and mounts. Doesn't make it P2W. This is probably one of dumber posts I've seen on here in a while. Thanks for the laugh sir.
I've spent some money upgrading weapons... if this game was truely P2W then why don't I win every time? Guess maybe it isn't quite pay to win.
Also, I play on a second account from time to time... one I have not spent a cent... and I still win at times there... hmmm.... I gotta think through the P2W logic a bit more...
Dunno what sniper class you are playing and how you are playing it but the best sniper is definitely a pain in the ass to get and is by no means a side-upgrade. People..
Unless every single item in a cash shop is purely costmetical then the game is to some degree Pay to Win.
Does it offer exp bonuses? Faster ways to get good weapons? Pay to Win.
End of discussion.
Actaully the most common definition is that a game is p2w when you can buy power items for RL cash that cannot be gained (relisticly) playing for free.
This allows for buying faster progression without it being p2w though, and is generally much broarder in what it allows.
Or put in a different wording for a game to be p2w it has to be designed so that you can ONLY win in the long run by paying.
Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.
Yes, it is P2W. That it is a business model. Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions. P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop. It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.
Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.
Yes, it is P2W. That it is a business model. Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions. P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop. It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.
f2p is the business/game design model. p2w is (subjectively seen for most players) a bad implementaion of f2p.
Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.
Yes, it is P2W. That it is a business model. Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions. P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop. It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.
You need to change your forum name dude.
Free to play is the name of the business model.
Pay to Win is forum born to imply a game that you can buy better equipment than what can be gained through free means.
Get out of my thread with such foolishness. By your standard the pets in world of warcraft is pay to win, or the cosmetics of GW2.
f2p is the business/game design model. p2w is (subjectively seen for most players) a bad implementaion of f2p.
Where at all in that acronym do you see a description for how the game gets revenue? F2P isn't a business model, but a description of how a player chooses to play the game. If one decides to purchase from the cash shop they are certainly not playing a "free" game. Even the publishers distinguish the difference between paying and nonpaying players.
It is interesting to see the same arguments in this thread as people used to say that GW2 was P2W. I don't think either game is - Allods Online now that is P2W.
I don't think anyone will sway anyone with arguments here.
It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
There are people that have already tested every weapon, documented their findings and have numbers to support the fact that every guns in PS2 is basically sidegrade:
It is interesting to see the same arguments in this thread as people used to say that GW2 was P2W. I don't think either game is - Allods Online now that is P2W.
I don't think anyone will sway anyone with arguments here.
I don't think people are really trying to sway each other's arguements. All that is needed is to prove the point the view that "Planetside 2 is p2w" is idiotic is good enough.
I think a quote from Nick Naylor in the movie Thank You for Smoking says it best:
Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right. Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them (as in everyone else but you).
Unless every single item in a cash shop is purely costmetical then the game is to some degree Pay to Win.
Does it offer exp bonuses? Faster ways to get good weapons? Pay to Win.
End of discussion.
That's not pay to win, and hardly the end of discussion. Even if you get weapons as fast as possible, it won't make you any more lethal. Just lethal in a different way. Did you even read the OP?
Originally posted by Kyleran For some folks, being able to purchase ways to progress more quickly fits into their definition of P2W. You won't change their minds by saying it isn't so.
But if progression doesn't equate to killing power, then how is it pay to win at all? You can progress faster into different rolls and play styles, not killing ability.
Originally posted by Kyleran For some folks, being able to purchase ways to progress more quickly fits into their definition of P2W. You won't change their minds by saying it isn't so.
But if progression doesn't equate to killing power, then how is it pay to win at all? You can progress faster into different rolls and play styles, not killing ability.
Progression gives you access to better armour, larger clips, more weapon addons, more utility abilities, shorter cooldowns, more versatiltiy etc etc and instant access to the most powerful, best situational and most unbalanced weapons. Then, once they balance these weapons, they can gain instant access to the next OP weapon/combination. All help you gain an advantage over players who do not have any of this.
From the first day of release aircraft rocket spam began, just like it did in the original game. AA was underpowered, rocket spam was unbalanced and too powerful, thats a fact, a known issue that led to the balancing patch but not before it was exploited as everyone knew this was the case from beta, they just purchased and buffed the rocket pods from launch.
Watch the video's of players getting massive numbers of kills and quickly this way with little-to-no deaths, it's sick. The splash damage meant there were few places you could hide.
Point is, without a cash purchase, this would never have happened at lauch.
These players paid to win, simple as that.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Comments
There is only one way to find out. If you don't enjoy, then guess what? Yep, you know the answer. Besides, how much did you have to pay even to play a subscription game (yes about $15 a month plus box price)? I'm not saying a you should spend about $15 a month to get enjoyment out of PS2, however I AM saying that you probably won't have to hardly spend anything at all unless you want to.
Self testimony time: I have spent $0 becuase I actually prefer the untility of the default weapons. Cosmetics are not worth spending becuase camo patterns don't actually work as camo patterns. I can kill someone wearing a snow pattern camo on snowy terrain just as easily as the guy wearing urban camo, and I'm not left impressed or envious of what they were wearing as they died to my hand.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I agree, all this P2W whining crap is annoying to see. The game is not P2W, it is quite literally F2P, imo the first F2P that is truly FREE to play. You have the same chances just as a sub does or dude that bought 10K station cash worth of crap. In the end it's all about tactical knowledge and placement.
TwitchTV: iNeoki
If a game has a cash shop it is P2W. This is a business model that is built on allowing players to advance their characters from microtransactions. It doesn't have anything to do with your opinion on "fairness".
Ironic, isn't it?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Hahahaha. No. Exteel. Most of the pay items in that game, and you were able to get atleast double the amount of kills, and last twice as long as someone who did not pay. So no.
Second, the pay to earn certs faster is a bit more of a problem, but it's less so also. It allows players to get better weapons faster to get better kills, which can kill the enthusiasm of a player that does not pay, since then it's less rewarding to play,
8:00 mins in shows the difference in acquisition rate, and the rate is quite ridiculous.
Also why should I pay for this game, which basically took any spunkgargleweewee game's multiplayer and just made it bigger?
The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.
Erm, No sorry doesnt work. TSW is Definately not P2W but does indeed has a cash shop. With the new changes even if we can level faster we still wont be progressing at all. since Gathering Skills doesn't equal Progression (other than to a fancy new outfit). So long as it doesn't give you a advantage its not P2W. A fancy Purple shirt doesnt give you a advantage in battle.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Hell, even WoW has a cash shop. You can buy nice shinny pets and mounts. Doesn't make it P2W. This is probably one of dumber posts I've seen on here in a while. Thanks for the laugh sir.
I've spent some money upgrading weapons... if this game was truely P2W then why don't I win every time? Guess maybe it isn't quite pay to win.
Also, I play on a second account from time to time... one I have not spent a cent... and I still win at times there... hmmm.... I gotta think through the P2W logic a bit more...
That has got to be the stupidest thing I've read in awhile. Congratulations.
PS2 and LoL use a very similar system.
Both have boosts.
Substitute "OP" guns with OP champs.
Substitue helms, armors, camos and decals for skins.
Anyone that tells me League of Legends is play 2 win is a moron.
Darkfall for now.
Quit bashing games YOU don't like! Including WoW, you know you liked it before you got burned out.
http://live.xbox.com/member/Njai
Actaully the most common definition is that a game is p2w when you can buy power items for RL cash that cannot be gained (relisticly) playing for free.
This allows for buying faster progression without it being p2w though, and is generally much broarder in what it allows.
Or put in a different wording for a game to be p2w it has to be designed so that you can ONLY win in the long run by paying.
Yes, it is P2W. That it is a business model. Just like P2P describes how a game earns money through subscriptions. P2W describes how the game earns money through the cash shop. It is a part of the game design and the basis for every game mechanic, or a characteristic of the game.
f2p is the business/game design model. p2w is (subjectively seen for most players) a bad implementaion of f2p.
You need to change your forum name dude.
Free to play is the name of the business model.
Pay to Win is forum born to imply a game that you can buy better equipment than what can be gained through free means.
Get out of my thread with such foolishness. By your standard the pets in world of warcraft is pay to win, or the cosmetics of GW2.
Where at all in that acronym do you see a description for how the game gets revenue? F2P isn't a business model, but a description of how a player chooses to play the game. If one decides to purchase from the cash shop they are certainly not playing a "free" game. Even the publishers distinguish the difference between paying and nonpaying players.
Just like gw2
It is interesting to see the same arguments in this thread as people used to say that GW2 was P2W. I don't think either game is - Allods Online now that is P2W.
I don't think anyone will sway anyone with arguments here.
There are people that have already tested every weapon, documented their findings and have numbers to support the fact that every guns in PS2 is basically sidegrade:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=12
What do you have Mr. Opinion?
I don't think people are really trying to sway each other's arguements. All that is needed is to prove the point the view that "Planetside 2 is p2w" is idiotic is good enough.
I think a quote from Nick Naylor in the movie Thank You for Smoking says it best:
Nick Naylor: I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right.
Joey Naylor: But you still didn't convince me
Nick Naylor: It's that I'm not after you. I'm after them (as in everyone else but you).
That's not pay to win, and hardly the end of discussion. Even if you get weapons as fast as possible, it won't make you any more lethal. Just lethal in a different way. Did you even read the OP?
But if progression doesn't equate to killing power, then how is it pay to win at all? You can progress faster into different rolls and play styles, not killing ability.
Progression gives you access to better armour, larger clips, more weapon addons, more utility abilities, shorter cooldowns, more versatiltiy etc etc and instant access to the most powerful, best situational and most unbalanced weapons. Then, once they balance these weapons, they can gain instant access to the next OP weapon/combination. All help you gain an advantage over players who do not have any of this.
From the first day of release aircraft rocket spam began, just like it did in the original game. AA was underpowered, rocket spam was unbalanced and too powerful, thats a fact, a known issue that led to the balancing patch but not before it was exploited as everyone knew this was the case from beta, they just purchased and buffed the rocket pods from launch.
Watch the video's of players getting massive numbers of kills and quickly this way with little-to-no deaths, it's sick. The splash damage meant there were few places you could hide.
Point is, without a cash purchase, this would never have happened at lauch.
These players paid to win, simple as that.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy