As an avid tanker, I've seen this coming for a long time. I'm one of the few that actually loves, and I mean LOVES tanking. You're the backbone of any good group. If you go down, so does the rest of the group. At least with healers, you usually have some dps class that can take over, or you can outright tank the final few % without heals...but healer shouldn't ever die if you're a good tank hehe (unless they're stupid and get caught in AoEs, durdur duuur).
I like the popularity that comes with being the tank. My guild knows my name. They know they can call on me for great tanking deeds. I'm not some random "replace with any millions of other" DPSers. I'm not some healer that doesn't have to do thier job because the raid has plenty of others to pick up their slack. I'm the tank, the one (or two) and only tank! I take the hits, and have people pay royalties for my repair bill. I laugh at the most fearsome bosses, and dance on thier corpses after they fail to vanquish me! I am the master of knowledge, and I know every raid, every boss, where to position the fight, how to keep my allies alive without healing. I AM TANK!
Just my 2 pennies
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I think they are trying to avoid the whole tank rounds the mobs up and stacks them in a neat pile while the dps aoe's them down. That gets pretty boring. Instead they are trying to go for intelligent mobs that work together to attempt to defeat you.
Originally posted by MyTabbycat I think they are trying to avoid the whole tank rounds the mobs up and stacks them in a neat pile while the dps aoe's them down. That gets pretty boring. Instead they are trying to go for intelligent mobs that work together to attempt to defeat you.
By removing choice to the players ? I've seen this in another game which was released not so long ago, did not work out very well.
Having intelligent mobs that work together does not disable the possibility of tanking at all. It can even add to the atmosphere by having the monsters not being tanked go for the weakest member or try to backstab the tank while he's tanking heavy hits. Tanking don't have to be all stats like dodge, parry, defense. It can also be taunting at the proper time, charging a friend to deflect a hit etc. One of the major problem nowadays is that tanks are simply walking aggro turets, while they should require more consideration from the player about which monster should be tanked, when and which party member should be saved first. The tank should be an avatar of damage PREVENTION, while healer should be on the other side, dealing with damage RESTORATION.
Having the character the most resilient get the attention of the biggest threat is simply logic. Just like having the light armor characters behind those in heavy armor is.
As I said before, I see no problem in having alternatives to the tanking system such as two rangers confusing the monsters with timed attacks and so on, but the absence of aggro table simply denies everything and simply doing blind fights based on randomness, which is ugly.
As an avid tanker, I've seen this coming for a long time. I'm one of the few that actually loves, and I mean LOVES tanking. You're the backbone of any good group. If you go down, so does the rest of the group. At least with healers, you usually have some dps class that can take over, or you can outright tank the final few % without heals...but healer shouldn't ever die if you're a good tank hehe (unless they're stupid and get caught in AoEs, durdur duuur).
I like the popularity that comes with being the tank. My guild knows my name. They know they can call on me for great tanking deeds. I'm not some random "replace with any millions of other" DPSers. I'm not some healer that doesn't have to do thier job because the raid has plenty of others to pick up their slack. I'm the tank, the one (or two) and only tank! I take the hits, and have people pay royalties for my repair bill. I laugh at the most fearsome bosses, and dance on thier corpses after they fail to vanquish me! I am the master of knowledge, and I know every raid, every boss, where to position the fight, how to keep my allies alive without healing. I AM TANK!
Just my 2 pennies
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
None taken, but if you're the only one (or two) fulfilling a role that makes you more responsible than a role with 5 or 16 others doing that role. The more people that have the same role the less you have be on your game. I have played all roles, and still do, but I find tank to be the most challenging. Which is why I like it so much. I've fallen asleep playing my hunter before hehe. Literally, but it was after like 30 hours straight after TBC was launched lol.
I've done all aspects of MMOs, and nothing gives me a bigger rush than tanking a bunch of adds and a boss. One of the most underated thing released this year is WoW's challenge mode dungeons. You get a major adrenaline rush...I was suprised in the player's choice vote that WoW wasn't even listed for Most Innovative...since Mists of Pandaria IS the most innovative release this year, pet battles, challenge mode, etc. all new concepts based on old concepts...which is what innovation is all about.
As an avid tanker, I've seen this coming for a long time. I'm one of the few that actually loves, and I mean LOVES tanking. You're the backbone of any good group. If you go down, so does the rest of the group. At least with healers, you usually have some dps class that can take over, or you can outright tank the final few % without heals...but healer shouldn't ever die if you're a good tank hehe (unless they're stupid and get caught in AoEs, durdur duuur).
I like the popularity that comes with being the tank. My guild knows my name. They know they can call on me for great tanking deeds. I'm not some random "replace with any millions of other" DPSers. I'm not some healer that doesn't have to do thier job because the raid has plenty of others to pick up their slack. I'm the tank, the one (or two) and only tank! I take the hits, and have people pay royalties for my repair bill. I laugh at the most fearsome bosses, and dance on thier corpses after they fail to vanquish me! I am the master of knowledge, and I know every raid, every boss, where to position the fight, how to keep my allies alive without healing. I AM TANK!
Just my 2 pennies
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
*snip* Sadly though, even if it were to be executed perfectly, the game would fail. That leap in complexity would alienate too many players that want (need is probably the better word) the static encounter to be "epic".
I don't know about failing, but you need go no further than GW2 to see this play out. You get some really good players that work togother and do the content with w/e mix of classes is available.
Then you have people, like the OP, who can't hack it outside the trinity and think everything else sucks.
As an avid tanker, I've seen this coming for a long time. I'm one of the few that actually loves, and I mean LOVES tanking. You're the backbone of any good group. If you go down, so does the rest of the group. At least with healers, you usually have some dps class that can take over, or you can outright tank the final few % without heals...but healer shouldn't ever die if you're a good tank hehe (unless they're stupid and get caught in AoEs, durdur duuur).
I like the popularity that comes with being the tank. My guild knows my name. They know they can call on me for great tanking deeds. I'm not some random "replace with any millions of other" DPSers. I'm not some healer that doesn't have to do thier job because the raid has plenty of others to pick up their slack. I'm the tank, the one (or two) and only tank! I take the hits, and have people pay royalties for my repair bill. I laugh at the most fearsome bosses, and dance on thier corpses after they fail to vanquish me! I am the master of knowledge, and I know every raid, every boss, where to position the fight, how to keep my allies alive without healing. I AM TANK!
Just my 2 pennies
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
I'm not so sure this is what made people despise the trinity... Most DPS players enjoy doing this, DPSing. Many healers and tanks also enjoy what they do. Otherwise, the switch is usually easy, especially considering that most of them comes from WoW.
In my opinion, what people probably dislike about holy trinity is how it can be very long to get in a group for a DPS and since they make up for the majority of the players, there's a feeling of "problem". I don't think the trinity in itself is the problem, more likely the absence of alternatives. If the trinity was only required for high end players due to the optimization following the model and that players on lower end could run with alternatives to this system, it would probably fix a lot of things.
I hope the trinity is gone. It makes for some of the most boring gameplay ever put into a game. Every trinity based game feels the same. I wouldn't have so much of an issue if it were more flexible, and allowed for more than the 3 standard roles. I miss the days of classes dedicated to mezzing, and buffing.
Originally posted by Traugar I hope the trinity is gone. It makes for some of the most boring gameplay ever put into a game. Every trinity based game feels the same. I wouldn't have so much of an issue if it were more flexible, and allowed for more than the 3 standard roles. I miss the days of classes dedicated to mezzing, and buffing.
The trinity doesn't block this kind of classes. It simply implies that you will be using at least a tank, at least a healer and at least someone specializing in damage dealing.
Rift did add the Support role while using the dungeon finder, while not entirely dedicated to a single thing these spot can be filled with buffers, damage/healer etc.
I don't see which days you are missing though, the trinity has been there on my first MMO which was Ultima Online and which is very old, it was also in my first fantasy game which was D&D lol... I think it's simply a logical way to set your units. The chances for it to be gone are below low, even in games without it players are recreating it using different ways or simply move to another game.
Originally posted by Traugar I hope the trinity is gone. It makes for some of the most boring gameplay ever put into a game. Every trinity based game feels the same. I wouldn't have so much of an issue if it were more flexible, and allowed for more than the 3 standard roles. I miss the days of classes dedicated to mezzing, and buffing.
The trinity doesn't block this kind of classes. It simply implies that you will be using at least a tank, at least a healer and at least someone specializing in damage dealing.
Rift did add the Support role while using the dungeon finder, while not entirely dedicated to a single thing these spot can be filled with buffers, damage/healer etc.
I don't see which days you are missing though, the trinity has been there on my first MMO which was Ultima Online and which is very old, it was also in my first fantasy game which was D&D lol... I think it's simply a logical way to set your units. The chances for it to be gone are below low, even in games without it players are recreating it using different ways or simply move to another game.
I didn't say I missed days without trinity. I said I missed days where there was more to it than tank/heal/dps. Also trinity is,and isn't in D&D. You have a tank, but the DM also has to take into the intellect of the creature so sometimes getting the creature to swing at a tank required proper positioning of the players so that it had no choice but to attack him. I didn't know about Rift and the roles system. I only played Rift in beta, and while I thought it was a pretty good themepark the lack of available quest paths made it not so fun to go through again. I do think removing trinity is a good thing though as long as it isn't done by making all classes the same. If players choose to recreate it then fine, but there should be more than one group layout that works.
Originally posted by ShakyMo From what I understand TESO while it has healers doesn't have traditional tanks or any threat mechanics
If that's true, the healers better be able to take care of themselves as well as the group or no one is going to play the healing pin cushion. The problem I have with games like GW2 is that the combat mechanic is based around death and ressurecting rather than focusing on survival. All of the hard encounters are designed specifically to kill people and success is determined more on attentive rezzing than anything else.
What? GW2 combat mechanic based around death and res?? If you're success is determined more on attentive rezzing than anything else, you obviously don't know how to play or just don't understand the mechanics of the game well. In a good group, its completely possible to do every single dungeons without having to rez anyone 1 single time if you know what you're doing. And some can be really challenging before you figure them out.
Yeah it's pretty obvious that the game's mechanics (still) hasn't sunk in yet for some people. The mere fact that others can conquer what they can't attests to that, but they prefer to blame it on the game.
I don't know what the frack is this talk about GW2's combat mega-failing, but I really prefer not being rejected in a group because I can't do anything else aside from DPSing, where in any MMO is the most abundant archetype. Maybe because I always pick the DPS class, and this game gives me the ability to tank and heal all at the same time. Natural tanks and healers may be feeling sore because they're no longer that special in GW2, and by extension in this game.
The angry feedback from many players over action combat being implemented in just about every new and upcoming MMORPG is due to many being upset that our genre is being over-run by action junkies who should be playing and whining about more MMOFPS instead of demanding the industry bastardize MMORPG's into twitch games.
It's from an action orientated single player game, what do you expect!
Anyway I like the idea of no threat mechanics, means tanks will be the main crowd controllers, making pve fights more reactionary while also giving tanks a use in pvp
I don't see which days you are missing though, the trinity has been there on my first MMO which was Ultima Online and which is very old, it was also in my first fantasy game which was D&D lol... I think it's simply a logical way to set your units. The chances for it to be gone are below low, even in games without it players are recreating it using different ways or simply move to another game.
Umm my first MMO was UO too and not once do I remember a holy trinity in it. Maybe you played it in its recent reincarnated form which is nothing like UO.
As an avid tanker, I've seen this coming for a long time. I'm one of the few that actually loves, and I mean LOVES tanking. You're the backbone of any good group. If you go down, so does the rest of the group. At least with healers, you usually have some dps class that can take over, or you can outright tank the final few % without heals...but healer shouldn't ever die if you're a good tank hehe (unless they're stupid and get caught in AoEs, durdur duuur).
I like the popularity that comes with being the tank. My guild knows my name. They know they can call on me for great tanking deeds. I'm not some random "replace with any millions of other" DPSers. I'm not some healer that doesn't have to do thier job because the raid has plenty of others to pick up their slack. I'm the tank, the one (or two) and only tank! I take the hits, and have people pay royalties for my repair bill. I laugh at the most fearsome bosses, and dance on thier corpses after they fail to vanquish me! I am the master of knowledge, and I know every raid, every boss, where to position the fight, how to keep my allies alive without healing. I AM TANK!
Just my 2 pennies
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
You took that seriously? I read it as a joke *shrug*
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Then don't play. Simple as that and no GW2 removal of the trinity was the freshest and most bold thing an MMO has ever done, sounds like you jsut are not very good or didnt play long enough to see the beuty of the system.
For the rest of us who enjoy not having to stand around LFG for hours on end because we choose not to play 2 of the most boring roles in a game, heals & tank, removal of the trinity is a godsend.
However hate to burst your bubble, ESO is still going with the trinity but its going to be more lose variety.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
The angry feedback from many players over action combat being implemented in just about every new and upcoming MMORPG is due to many being upset that our genre is being over-run by action junkies who should be playing and whining about more MMOFPS instead of demanding the industry bastardize MMORPG's into twitch games.
This absolutely this!
Sorry usually I enjoy just reading and not posting, but this was absolutely what I am thinking too.
Then don't play. Simple as that and no GW2 removal of the trinity was the freshest and most bold thing an MMO has ever done, sounds like you jsut are not very good or didnt play long enough to see the beuty of the system.
I did not play long enough to see the "beuty" of this system, you are completely right. Considering that in a few days my friends and I had already maxed our level and completed every dungeons, we should definitely have wasted more time chasing after useless skins.
This lack of trinity was made purely for players going for DPS class, thinking that Tanking and Healing were boring while they are not at all for most players playing these roles.
You don't like tanking and healing and prefer to DPS, go on. As I already said, the best would be to allow alternative ways. While higher-end content would probably continue with the classic trinity ways since it's more efficient, it would allow low end players to run the content or try out higher end content without the "efficient" factor.
By the way, GW2 system was far from being "new". Many games have used systems without trinity wisely, Diablo 2 for example.
As for UO, I played this game 15 years ago and we were using something similar to the trinity.
Being a tank in every game that I play (single player too when I can...), this is simply a big fun killer for me. The holy trinity is nothing but efficient tactic.
I don't know, make the game not REQUIRE holy trinity, why not give it a try... But simply DENYING this aspect by not having aggro system at all is just wrong from my point of view.
Aggro systems are lazy hold overs from the past. The trinity doesn't require an aggro system, and IMO would be much more fun without it. Then again I am in favor of virtually any change that eliminates the DDR feel of group PvE.
"Doing it right" would be a ton more work. You'd need positional blocking, an AI with a threat vs proximity metric and release/retarget subroutine, plus a few other considerations (friendly fire for example). Sadly though, even if it were to be executed perfectly, the game would fail. That leap in complexity would alienate too many players that want (need is probably the better word) the static encounter to be "epic".
I disagree, I think aggro system is something which adds a lot to the game, whatever the way it is done. I wouldn't mind playing in an environment with temporary threat management, where the monster can pretty much attack randomly but where there are a few taunts to manage the situation. For example, during a special phase or to save an ally. I would even enjoy it.
But as it seems right now, after the huge fail of GW2 system where everybody was on his own, TESO is going for the Healer is responsible for everybody.
Let's not forget, also, that unless the sword/mace and shield warrior deals as much damage as a dual-wield or two-handed warrior, the fact that there is no threat will most likely make him unwanted for high end groups where efficiency matters.
There are a lot of stuff to be improved in the MMO industry, but I'm fairly sure that harming the possibility of playing the role we want isn't something great.
OH yeah - a tank uses taunts to keep the mob aggroed while the others go 'PEW PEW PEW' - I call it lazy mechanics from the developers.
Not anti-trinity but there is more out there than the trinity. New mob AI's make it much harder to use the trinity - take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on. That makes a game a little harder to play and the players have to be better at moving around to not be killed.
OH yeah - a tank uses taunts to keep the mob aggroed while the others go 'PEW PEW PEW' - I call it lazy mechanics from the developers.
Not anti-trinity but there is more out there than the trinity. New mob AI's make it much harder to use the trinity - take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on. That makes a game a little harder to play and the players have to be better at moving around to not be killed.
I agree to some extent... I don't think the trinity is the problem though.. as you said... "take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on." the problem is that aggro mechanics are poor.. regardless of whether you use the trinigty or not... you should never be able to just let your character auto through a fight... especially a boss battle.. for only 1 or 2 ppl to be actively involved is poor mechanics.
ppl should be able to use the playstyles they like.. dodging/meatshield/healer but the mobs shouldn't just be idiots who do whatever you want them to do... taking away the trinity itself and not improving the play in general.. seems counterintuitive.. you are taking away ppls identity.
OH yeah - a tank uses taunts to keep the mob aggroed while the others go 'PEW PEW PEW' - I call it lazy mechanics from the developers.
Not anti-trinity but there is more out there than the trinity. New mob AI's make it much harder to use the trinity - take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on. That makes a game a little harder to play and the players have to be better at moving around to not be killed.
It doesn't necessarily make the game harder to play. Just like GW2, most of my friends were able to faceroll the content, considering we failed to faceroll some dungeons in other games using trinity simply means that the difficulty of a game has many variables to play with. While on a large scale it might add difficulty, it doesn't for everyone.
Also, let's not forget how many people disliked GW2 because some dungeons were hard in their opinion. This is a no brainer, most of the players of MMORPG's are having difficulty with very easy mechanics already existing, even with tanks and healers babysitting them.
By going "No trinity", not only is the game removing possible roles, but it is also making it target a specific, elitist audience. Not sure this is the wisest thing unless they are going for an elitist niche, which has its pros and cons.
On a sidenote, I am also completely against the "aggro walls" that tanks are in some games now. But there must be wiser ideas than simply removing the role completely.
Comments
No offense intended, but that kind of attitude is what makes alot of people despise the trinity.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
By removing choice to the players ? I've seen this in another game which was released not so long ago, did not work out very well.
Having intelligent mobs that work together does not disable the possibility of tanking at all. It can even add to the atmosphere by having the monsters not being tanked go for the weakest member or try to backstab the tank while he's tanking heavy hits. Tanking don't have to be all stats like dodge, parry, defense. It can also be taunting at the proper time, charging a friend to deflect a hit etc. One of the major problem nowadays is that tanks are simply walking aggro turets, while they should require more consideration from the player about which monster should be tanked, when and which party member should be saved first. The tank should be an avatar of damage PREVENTION, while healer should be on the other side, dealing with damage RESTORATION.
Having the character the most resilient get the attention of the biggest threat is simply logic. Just like having the light armor characters behind those in heavy armor is.
As I said before, I see no problem in having alternatives to the tanking system such as two rangers confusing the monsters with timed attacks and so on, but the absence of aggro table simply denies everything and simply doing blind fights based on randomness, which is ugly.
None taken, but if you're the only one (or two) fulfilling a role that makes you more responsible than a role with 5 or 16 others doing that role. The more people that have the same role the less you have be on your game. I have played all roles, and still do, but I find tank to be the most challenging. Which is why I like it so much. I've fallen asleep playing my hunter before hehe. Literally, but it was after like 30 hours straight after TBC was launched lol.
I've done all aspects of MMOs, and nothing gives me a bigger rush than tanking a bunch of adds and a boss. One of the most underated thing released this year is WoW's challenge mode dungeons. You get a major adrenaline rush...I was suprised in the player's choice vote that WoW wasn't even listed for Most Innovative...since Mists of Pandaria IS the most innovative release this year, pet battles, challenge mode, etc. all new concepts based on old concepts...which is what innovation is all about.
Or love it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Probably because all he really knows is WoW
I'm not so sure this is what made people despise the trinity... Most DPS players enjoy doing this, DPSing. Many healers and tanks also enjoy what they do. Otherwise, the switch is usually easy, especially considering that most of them comes from WoW.
In my opinion, what people probably dislike about holy trinity is how it can be very long to get in a group for a DPS and since they make up for the majority of the players, there's a feeling of "problem". I don't think the trinity in itself is the problem, more likely the absence of alternatives. If the trinity was only required for high end players due to the optimization following the model and that players on lower end could run with alternatives to this system, it would probably fix a lot of things.
The trinity doesn't block this kind of classes. It simply implies that you will be using at least a tank, at least a healer and at least someone specializing in damage dealing.
Rift did add the Support role while using the dungeon finder, while not entirely dedicated to a single thing these spot can be filled with buffers, damage/healer etc.
I don't see which days you are missing though, the trinity has been there on my first MMO which was Ultima Online and which is very old, it was also in my first fantasy game which was D&D lol... I think it's simply a logical way to set your units. The chances for it to be gone are below low, even in games without it players are recreating it using different ways or simply move to another game.
I didn't say I missed days without trinity. I said I missed days where there was more to it than tank/heal/dps. Also trinity is,and isn't in D&D. You have a tank, but the DM also has to take into the intellect of the creature so sometimes getting the creature to swing at a tank required proper positioning of the players so that it had no choice but to attack him. I didn't know about Rift and the roles system. I only played Rift in beta, and while I thought it was a pretty good themepark the lack of available quest paths made it not so fun to go through again. I do think removing trinity is a good thing though as long as it isn't done by making all classes the same. If players choose to recreate it then fine, but there should be more than one group layout that works.
I enjoy threat mechanics. Interestingly enough, I didn't enjoy GW1...
You make me like charity
We should hopefully find out more information on how tanking will work once the game is in beta.
I would think there would be more ways for tanks to handle the mobs such as with blocks and interrupts and stuns.
The angry feedback from many players over action combat being implemented in just about every new and upcoming MMORPG is due to many being upset that our genre is being over-run by action junkies who should be playing and whining about more MMOFPS instead of demanding the industry bastardize MMORPG's into twitch games.
Anyway I like the idea of no threat mechanics, means tanks will be the main crowd controllers, making pve fights more reactionary while also giving tanks a use in pvp
Umm my first MMO was UO too and not once do I remember a holy trinity in it. Maybe you played it in its recent reincarnated form which is nothing like UO.
You took that seriously? I read it as a joke *shrug*
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Then don't play. Simple as that and no GW2 removal of the trinity was the freshest and most bold thing an MMO has ever done, sounds like you jsut are not very good or didnt play long enough to see the beuty of the system.
For the rest of us who enjoy not having to stand around LFG for hours on end because we choose not to play 2 of the most boring roles in a game, heals & tank, removal of the trinity is a godsend.
However hate to burst your bubble, ESO is still going with the trinity but its going to be more lose variety.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
This absolutely this!
Sorry usually I enjoy just reading and not posting, but this was absolutely what I am thinking too.
I did not play long enough to see the "beuty" of this system, you are completely right. Considering that in a few days my friends and I had already maxed our level and completed every dungeons, we should definitely have wasted more time chasing after useless skins.
This lack of trinity was made purely for players going for DPS class, thinking that Tanking and Healing were boring while they are not at all for most players playing these roles.
You don't like tanking and healing and prefer to DPS, go on. As I already said, the best would be to allow alternative ways. While higher-end content would probably continue with the classic trinity ways since it's more efficient, it would allow low end players to run the content or try out higher end content without the "efficient" factor.
By the way, GW2 system was far from being "new". Many games have used systems without trinity wisely, Diablo 2 for example.
As for UO, I played this game 15 years ago and we were using something similar to the trinity.
I hope every next generation MMO will force people to play Trinity again. I really dislike this Rezzing-Style from GW2.
We need the Holy Trinity for fun and immersive Groupplay in MMOs...
OH yeah - a tank uses taunts to keep the mob aggroed while the others go 'PEW PEW PEW' - I call it lazy mechanics from the developers.
Not anti-trinity but there is more out there than the trinity. New mob AI's make it much harder to use the trinity - take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on. That makes a game a little harder to play and the players have to be better at moving around to not be killed.
I agree to some extent... I don't think the trinity is the problem though.. as you said... "take away taunts and there is no aggro on mob and other players have to be more attuned to what is going on." the problem is that aggro mechanics are poor.. regardless of whether you use the trinigty or not... you should never be able to just let your character auto through a fight... especially a boss battle.. for only 1 or 2 ppl to be actively involved is poor mechanics.
ppl should be able to use the playstyles they like.. dodging/meatshield/healer but the mobs shouldn't just be idiots who do whatever you want them to do... taking away the trinity itself and not improving the play in general.. seems counterintuitive.. you are taking away ppls identity.
It doesn't necessarily make the game harder to play. Just like GW2, most of my friends were able to faceroll the content, considering we failed to faceroll some dungeons in other games using trinity simply means that the difficulty of a game has many variables to play with. While on a large scale it might add difficulty, it doesn't for everyone.
Also, let's not forget how many people disliked GW2 because some dungeons were hard in their opinion. This is a no brainer, most of the players of MMORPG's are having difficulty with very easy mechanics already existing, even with tanks and healers babysitting them.
By going "No trinity", not only is the game removing possible roles, but it is also making it target a specific, elitist audience. Not sure this is the wisest thing unless they are going for an elitist niche, which has its pros and cons.
On a sidenote, I am also completely against the "aggro walls" that tanks are in some games now. But there must be wiser ideas than simply removing the role completely.