People are becoming crybabies

Aydrian · October 2005

Have you ever thought that gamers have reduced themselves to little more then whiny little brats who throw a temper tantrum each time when there's something wrong?

Or that they all seem to move in a caravan when it comes to insulting a game? Try checking out each page on the GW player review part. You'll see at least 3 people say "It's not an MMORPG." EVERY. SINGLE. PAGE. I go to this site every single day, hoping and wishing not to see those words and actually see someone make a half decent comment on the game.

You'll continuasly see the words "It does not belong on this site." But niether do whiny little brats, but that seems to be 80% of the playerbase of the entire planet. I remember a time when I could check for a review on a game and it was less crying, more honest reviewing that depended upon the likes and dislikes of the general playerbase and not that particular person.

This game so far is getting it hard. The bad thing however is that people who hate this game are making others feel like idiots for liking it. That does nothing more then reduce gamers into two groups, the pricks and the real gamers. Unfortunately, the pricks group is growing in number by the day.

No offense to the creators of this website because I like this site a lot, but never on any other website have I seen such a high concentration of whiny babies like I have here. What happened to the times when you played a game and if you didn't like it that's fine? What happened to the time when we could check a comment board and not feel insulted because more then half of the comments are so rude that the gamers are insulted?

Is it because most of the rude gamers do not know how to appreciate the games that have been released? I grew up on games like Mario and Final Fantasy. I'm talking about THE FIRST final fantasy, not ff7 where most of them hopped on board.

But I go into forums these days and see people whining about things like "graphics" and "you can't jump" or "you can't swim" or "roleplaying sucks". It's sad what gamers have turned themselves into. I miss those old days when I could play a game and not have an entire message board full of people complaining about every single detail.

I know it's a sign of the times and it probably will not change. But go to a gaming forum, any forum, and just check through some of the posts and I mean truly read them from a whole new light. You'll see just as I have that gamers are pathetic. I'll still continue to play games all my life. But gamers today need to appreciate the games they have and not waste so much time crying about every single problem.

If you hate a game that's perfectly fine, but don't make other people feel like idiots when they like it.
It's a sad day for gamers indeed when a bunch of whiny children ruin the fun for everyone around them. It seems like they've all gathered in the Guild Wars comment section...sad.

Elkari · October 2005

Originally posted by Aydrian

Is it because most of the rude gamers do not know how to appreciate the games that have been released? I grew up on games like Mario and Final Fantasy. I'm talking about THE FIRST final fantasy, not ff7 where most of them hopped on board.

Remember Zork? A text RPG with no graphics whatsoever. You had to guess what commands would work and where they work. Players had their own imagination to rely on to 'see' what was going on. Or what about the early Might and Magic games with boxy graphics and stop and go action.
Today's players are too coddled with the games that have life-like grphics. To them, everything has to be perfect in their way or they would not be happy with it. For every whiny complaint I read, I just chalked it off to 'You cannot please everyone' and move on. I does annoy me a little to see the ammount of whiny forum entries.

Aydrian · October 2005

At least I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Azirophos · October 2005

Totally agreed.

Aware · October 2005

Yeah, the thing is most people state there preferences/opinion, then the actaul way it is.. Alot of people say the community is horrible, but it isn't at all, inless you are horrible yourself.. Plus its about the same as any other online game i've played, except a few which were MUCH worse(not saying its bad :P)..

Sovrath · October 2005

I agree as well.

First off... (and I have said this before) Guild Wars is not touted as an MMO but it is enough of an MMO to be included on this site.

If Guild Wars was the first MMO then all other games would be compared to it and would be subject to the "it's not an MMO" whine.

And if that is the way people think then why not also say that Dungeons and Dragons online is not an MMO? It is very similiar to the Guild Wars model in that you meet in the cities, get a party and head to the instanced adventure.

And why not allow that MMO's need to evolve and that it is ok to allow differences, even significant differences, so that we don't get the "same old" "same old".

What I really hate is the "this game blows" people. Why does it "blow"? Because they don't like it.. because they didn't read about it and didn't realize what it was?

That is like saying an Apple Blows because it is not like an Orange.

Damn crybabies. If only their parents would take away their gaming rights. Let them get jobs.

Aseenus · October 2005

amm.. im not gonna read all that lol

zonzai · October 2005

Ahhh... Zork, the good old days of gaming. Wait, I take that back. ::::07::

You have got realize that this forum is a safe-haven fire lifeless, skill-less nerds. And I don't mean the kind of nerd that likes to tinker, I mean the total geek that tapes his one inch thick glasses together, snorts violently when he laughs and often confuses reality with sessions of D&D. The sort of people that have nothing better to do than spend 900 hours every day farming and bragging about how leet their level nine-zillion elvish wizard is.

Guild Wars represents the beginning of the end of the mmorpg heyday for these people. When they look at this game they can see that it calls for adult communication skills to succeed in PvP and the forethought to design skill templates that work. More than anything, it levels the playing the field between those who don't have the time (or desire) to spend hours farming and those who have the brainless stamina to kill a billion mobs fr months on end.

And that is what scares them the most. In the past, these troll-nerds have been able to dominate those weaker than themselves -- A.K.A. those of lower levels or classes less intended for PvP. But that is not the case with Guild Wars. There are only 20 levels, leet items are not that leet and all of the classes are designed for the PvP endgame. So, of course they hate it. Of course they are going to come to their safe haven to smite the game that foretells of their inevitable ruination. They're certainly not going to thank Arena.Net for ending their leetness. I will though. Thanks A.Net! ::::35::

Moriturus · October 2005

Stop being a whiny baby about the whiny babies.

Oh, wait, I'm being a whiny baby about the whiny babies who whine about whiny babies . . .

zeboath · October 2005

Originally posted by Aydrian
Have you ever thought that gamers have reduced themselves to little more then whiny little brats who throw a temper tantrum each time when there's something wrong?Or that they all seem to move in a caravan when it comes to insulting a game? Try checking out each page on the GW player review part. You'll see at least 3 people say "It's not an MMORPG." EVERY. SINGLE. PAGE. I go to this site every single day, hoping and wishing not to see those words and actually see someone make a half decent comment on the game.You'll continuasly see the words "It does not belong on this site." But niether do whiny little brats, but that seems to be 80% of the playerbase of the entire planet. I remember a time when I could check for a review on a game and it was less crying, more honest reviewing that depended upon the likes and dislikes of the general playerbase and not that particular person.This game so far is getting it hard. The bad thing however is that people who hate this game are making others feel like idiots for liking it. That does nothing more then reduce gamers into two groups, the pricks and the real gamers. Unfortunately, the pricks group is growing in number by the day.No offense to the creators of this website because I like this site a lot, but never on any other website have I seen such a high concentration of whiny babies like I have here. What happened to the times when you played a game and if you didn't like it that's fine? What happened to the time when we could check a comment board and not feel insulted because more then half of the comments are so rude that the gamers are insulted?Is it because most of the rude gamers do not know how to appreciate the games that have been released? I grew up on games like Mario and Final Fantasy. I'm talking about THE FIRST final fantasy, not ff7 where most of them hopped on board.But I go into forums these days and see people whining about things like "graphics" and "you can't jump" or "you can't swim" or "roleplaying sucks". It's sad what gamers have turned themselves into. I miss those old days when I could play a game and not have an entire message board full of people complaining about every single detail.I know it's a sign of the times and it probably will not change. But go to a gaming forum, any forum, and just check through some of the posts and I mean truly read them from a whole new light. You'll see just as I have that gamers are pathetic. I'll still continue to play games all my life. But gamers today need to appreciate the games they have and not waste so much time crying about every single problem.If you hate a game that's perfectly fine, but don't make other people feel like idiots when they like it.
It's a sad day for gamers indeed when a bunch of whiny children ruin the fun for everyone around them. It seems like they've all gathered in the Guild Wars comment section...sad.

I concur. So many idiotic babies are whining over something as ridiculous of a genre. Either you like the game or not.

But I know why the say "It's even not a Mmorpg"

It's because they want to find something bad about the game, and then because it's instanced they whine about that.

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Originally posted by zonzai

Ahhh... Zork, the good old days of gaming. Wait, I take that back.

You have got realize that this forum is a safe-haven fire lifeless, skill-less nerds. And I don't mean the kind of nerd that likes to tinker, I mean the total geek that tapes his one inch thick glasses together, snorts violently when he laughs and often confuses reality with sessions of D&D. The sort of people that have nothing better to do than spend 900 hours every day farming and bragging about how leet their level nine-zillion elvish wizard is.

Man, what a narrow minded view you have. One's gameplay doesn't influence their perspective on GW since people on both side of the spectrum, those who hate GW and those who love the game, have voiced their opinions. The two most complained about issues with GW is lack of content and the linear playability. If you don't believe me then look at the thousands of posts on this forum and you'll see that both people who hates this game or love it want were disappointed. The people who hated were down right blunt about their hatred for the game and the people who love the game make post asking for improvements or more options to be added.

Now if the people who like the game were fine with the game, they wouldn't be asking for more content & gameplay options. They would just let ANET come with their own way of advancing or improving the game. What people are asking for is a world that will immense and make them more involved to care about it enough to stay. The only thing GW has that draws people back the most is the need for teamwork and play with friends, or at least that is what I found the most addicting thing at the time.

Guild Wars represents the beginning of the end of the mmorpg heyday for these people. When they look at this game they can see that it calls for adult communication skills to succeed in PvP and the forethought to design skill templates that work. More than anything, it levels the playing the field between those who don't have the time (or desire) to spend hours farming and those who have the brainless stamina to kill a billion mobs fr months on end.

Agreed. Though I wouldn't say adult communication since half the population is made up of teens. I would say clear communication, patience, responsibility/maturity and cooperation.

And that is what scares them the most. In the past, these troll-nerds have been able to dominate those weaker than themselves -- A.K.A. those of lower levels or classes less intended for PvP. But that is not the case with Guild Wars. There are only 20 levels, leet items are not that leet and all of the classes are designed for the PvP endgame. So, of course they hate it. Of course they are going to come to their safe haven to smite the game that foretells of their inevitable ruination. They're certainly not going to thank Arena.Net for ending their leetness. I will though. Thanks A.Net!

They hate the linear gameplay and the unfamiliar atmosphere/surroundings of GW's world. The gameplay seems so foreign since they are use to the SOLOABLE atmosphere of many MMORPGs WITHOUT ALWAYS RELYING on teammates and the COMPLICATED tasks that PRESSURED them to use certain skills or cooperation. They believe it's too simple to master and it softens their skills.

Some of the players are use to the individualistic captialism community perceptive of most MMORPG. Players from those RPGs find it comfortable to manage themselves then other people who can manage themselves and their contributes make a huge differences. People from RPGs like this, especially WoW, are like Republican conversatives. They value their way of community to not want it change, they love to heard money, guilds are like religions and they believe that everyone is responsible for themselves when it comes to managing characters.

GW is simplistic in gameplay and the community requires HEAVY TEAMWORK and COOPERATION even if the players don't like each other. This is new for someplayers and anchoring for other players who are good at making due on their own. Players enjoy the SIMPLISTIC GAMEPLAY and the SMALL ENVIROMENTS because they aren't burden with really hard task with goals/rewards that are normally shattered in far off lands.

The community is very interpersonal meaning you have to develop some kind of mutual relationship to get through the game, whether it's with the CPU henchmen or other players. They are no reward for teamwork, just self-gratification. GW's atomsphere is similar to the Japanese Collectivism perceptive where loyalty, cooperation and the responsibility to oversee the actions of others is important. The only difference between GW's game community and Japan's real-life community is that the system isn't too complicated to the point where players are pressured into excelling at the game.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that people who complain about GW are not "cry-babies", but they want to be MORE INVOLVED in the community where they have the power to be an INDIVIDUAL and have THEIR contributes stand out rather than sharing the glory with others.

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Also I wanted to add that the reason why I say this game is neither skilled based nor balanced, but very strategical. Skill (game-wise) is a person's ability to adapt to a situation with the knowledge they learned while fighting on an equal playing field. Skill is a personal glory that can't be shared since we all use different methods to get something done.

Teamwork is cooperating with others using strategic tactics to balance the playing field. EVERYONE benefits from teamwork in different ways. If the classes were balanced as people say then people wouldn't have to work in groups and battles would be more free-for-all then stragetical. The fact that each class is weaker or stronger against another class is proof of that.

Just some food for thought.

zonzai · October 2005

In response to your identification of the differences between Guild Wars (a corp) and mmorpg's...

I agree completely. I can't tell you how many ample warnings there have been that Guild Wars isn't a mmorpg but a corpg. Revelation: it's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A MMORPG. Now, if people would just quit bitching about it not being a mmorpg and go play a game that is supposed to be a mmorpg maybe we could all get along happily.

C = competitive (e.g. PvP)
O = online (that means that it's online not that it's a mmorpg)
RPG = role-playing game (e.g. linear just like most rpg's)

In response to much of what you said in both of your posts...

The skills are not individually balanced, no. That's an impossible task with so many skills and there's no good reason for them to all be balanced against one another.

Guild Wars is not purely skill based because it isn't really twitch-gaming skill that wins the day. It is very much SKILL SELECTION based, in that the 8 skills that you choose can make or break you. Which, as you correctly stated, does indeed make it strategy more than reflexes that wins the day. But developing strategies is a kind of skill. And don't forget that at high-end pvp play, teamwork is the other major factor aside from builds. And that requires more than just those adolescent communication skills that you find in the general chat in towns. And experience playing the game contributes to one's ability to play (as you stated) because you still have to factor the intimate knowledge of each skill that only comes with using it -- which is indeed a sort of skill. And you also have to have (for the most part) a bit of perception and intellect to play GW, as you do with any game -- which is more like general gaming skill. People, such as myself, sometimes refer to this overall melding of strategy, communication, experience and brains as skill. Sue us if you don't like it.

The thing is that time DOES NOT directly, completely and unequivocally equal "skill" in GW as it does in most mmorpg's. There's much more to it than that. That pisses people off and then they have to gripe about it. They can't really find that many flaws in the game itself, so they bitch about the one thing that has been bugging them the whole time, what they thought the game should be but isn't; a mmorpg. (Which also happens to be exactly what it says right on the damn box that they were too stupid to read to begin with.) And then the ::::16:: ing starts.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
If the classes were balanced as people say then people wouldn't have to work in groups and battles would be more free-for-all then stragetical.

No, if every class could do almost exactly the same things at almost exactly the same level of efficiency then it would be a free for all.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
The fact that each class is weaker or stronger against another class is proof of that.

No, absolutely wrong. That proves that certain classes are weaker or stronger against other classes and nothing else.

Each class has a role to play; necromancers aren't supposed to heal as well as monks. There's nothing imbalanced about that. Certain functions, such as healing, may be more important than others, such as interruption, but that doesn't mean that the classes are imbalanced. It means that they are different. Which is a good thing if you ask me.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Just some food for thought.

Oh good a low fact diet! Too much raw opinion for my tastes though.

Minders · October 2005

While I may or may not agree, these last three posts were really good and made me think (that in itself is a wonder)

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Originally posted by zonzai
In response to much of what you said in both of your posts...

The skills are not individually balanced, no. That's an impossible task with so many skills and there's no good reason for them to all be balanced against one another.

I (and everyone else) was referring to one's personal skill, not the spells and special moves in the game. Clearly, you're changing the meaning of what has been spoken to fit your argument.

Guild Wars is not purely skill based because it isn't really twitch-gaming skill that wins the day. It is very much SKILL SELECTION based, in that the 8 skills that you choose can make or break you. Which, as you correctly stated, does indeed make it strategy more than reflexes that wins the day.

Uh...um. The skills you pick effect not only yourself, but the team too. Like I said, isn't about personal glory.

But developing strategies is a kind of skill. And don't forget that at high-end pvp play, teamwork is the other major factor aside from builds. And that requires more than just those adolescent communication skills that you find in the general chat in towns. And experience playing the game contributes to one's ability to play (as you stated) because you still have to factor the intimate knowledge of each skill that only comes with using it -- which is indeed a sort of skill. And you also have to have (for the most part) a bit of perception and intellect to play GW, as you do with any game -- which is more like general gaming skill. People, such as myself, sometimes refer to this overall melding of strategy, communication, experience and brains as skill. Sue us if you don't like it.

Communication is somewhat of a leadership skill, but the leader can't hog all the glory as this is a team game. How well you communicate with each other is based on your personality. Cooperation, intellect and perception are all personality traits. Your personality traits influence your day to day actions and how you deal with them.

For example, I'm an INTJ, which is Introvert iNituitive Thinking Judgmental personality type. My personality traits makes me a background leader. I have to experience something before I can counter it half the time. Other times, if the situation has familiarity to it, I won't have to experience it just to counter the problem, I'll just use my past experiences to tackle the problem. One of the big reason why I played a mesmer was because I can analyze the battle then neutralize the major problem after identifying it.

But I'm one of the many people in the game with that personality trait. Everyone brings a different personality trait so everyone has different skills or methods to handling a problem. In GW, your personality trait influences the class choice you make and how well you play it where as in other MMORPGs, you personality trait show well you can adapt in the middle of battle. Again, in GW, personality traits effects your ability to cooperate and use teamwork.

The thing is that time DOES NOT directly, completely and unequivocally equal "skill" in GW as it does in most mmorpg's. There's much more to it than that. That pisses people off and then they have to gripe about it. They can't really find that many flaws in the game itself, so they bitch about the one thing that has been bugging them the whole time, what they thought the game should be but isn't; a mmorpg. (Which also happens to be exactly what it says right on the damn box that they were too stupid to read to begin with.) And then the ing starts.

Nothing in this paragraph made any since you didn't clarify your own definition of skill and you exaggrated points like how people view this game. As I said, people in these games like to play individually rather than collectively. They like to stand out in game. You can argue to you're blue in the face, you'd still be wrong on how you viewed it. If you took the time to read the post of those who support GW and those who didn't, again, you'll see that those people are like-minded and are use to the gameplay and atmosphere of your standard MMORPG. It's not that they couldn't adapt, they just feel unsatifised not being able to stand out and very out of place in a new setting. Just like immigrants in America.

No, if every class could do almost exactly the same things at almost exactly the same level of efficiency then it would be a free for all.

To clarify what I'm speak of, I'll give two perfect examples: Super Smash Bros and World of Warcraft. In Super Smash Brothers 1 & 2, everyone has different moves, strength and weakness. Their strengths and weakenss are personal to the character, no matter how strong or feeble each character is. Donkey Kong is very strong, but it doesn't mean he can beat Kirby who is twice as fast as DK. On the flip side, a defensive DK can beat an offensive DK.

World of Warcraft is another example because the underrated Warrior can beat the Rogue, the hunter can beat many spellcasters in the game, etc. The only imbalancing issue is the paladin who has been nerf into uselessness in PvP by Blizzard. Though, the class strength play a role in who you can beat, skill DOES make a huge difference at increasing your chance to beat other class outside of your class fuction. I watched a video of paladin taking a whole zephyr of Horde and a Tauren warrior take out nearly a whole battlefield of enemies in PvP with one blow.

GW does not have such a balance, which I'll explain in a minute.

No, absolutely wrong. That proves that certain classes are weaker or stronger against other classes and nothing else.

Each class has a role to play; necromancers aren't supposed to heal as well as monks. There's nothing imbalanced about that. Certain functions, such as healing, may be more important than others, such as interruption, but that doesn't mean that the classes are imbalanced. It means that they are different. Which is a good thing if you ask me.

And I couldn't disagree more with what you said. Not only what you said didn't make any sense or related to a class's strength over another class, but it was a clear exaggration of class strength's and weakness. Necromancer's effectivenss to heal as a partial monk has nothing to do with why he may or may not be better than the monk as a healer. The necromancer strength is that he can kill you through DoT or Vampire spells. Necro are mostly effective against warriors, but since warriors aren't a real threat in this game (nearly every class can deflect a warrior), the Necromancer strength's mean very little so the game has two class that aren't all that useful and aren't balanced to be versatile. Now the Ranger and Mesmer have the biggest advantage in the game since they are anti-caster classes and 5/6 of the class in this game use energy-based skills. Out of the two, the mesmer is the strongest because that class can 1) cast through walls, 2) Can speed up delayed spells and 3) neturalize all class including the warrior and ranger.

Now on the subject of class function which you were talking about; being able to heal makes the monk a vital key player in 95% of the team strategies. As I said, the gameplay is very simplistic and pvp is no exception since most teams use a monk to keep the whole team alive. Almost every person on the team in the game know that the monk is the first person to take down in the group making strategies in this game near identical.

As I said a thousand time, what decides the winner or loser in this game is dumb luck. I'm not speaking negatively, but you go into the fights blind because the battles are randomize. You don't know what classes and moves they are using until you meet them. You can only HOPE your team has an anti-everything strategy or the other team screws up thei strategy or brought the wrong class/team build, spells or special moves to battle. (But in your eyes the other team wasn't obviously skilled enough or just plain sucked.) There is no skill to this game, just strategy and dumb luck.

Of course, you'll disagree, trying exaggrate the gameplay to make it SEEM more complicated then it really is. Yet, any buffoon can see what I say is true if they take the time to analyze the game routines and gameplay closely. (How do you think my guild of rank 600th beat two teams in the top 100s.)

Oh good a low fact diet! Too much raw opinion for my tastes though.

Clearly, an intelligent mind can see through your bullshit immature front to appear smart. A lot this stuff is trival to the advantage college student, yet you manage to make it sound un-intelligent babbling. Next time try to clarify what you are saying instead of redefining words to fit your perceptive or exaggrate a point.

I'm pretty sure right now, you're hoping someone comes in and changes the subject with an insult/sarcasm remark so you can capitalize on it. Am I right?

Aydrian · October 2005

All these are interesting reads. For once, I'm not in someone's crosshairs.

zonzai · October 2005

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
I (and everyone else) was referring to one's personal skill, not the spells and special moves in the game.

My bad. I apologize.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Clearly, you're changing the meaning of what has been spoken to fit your argument.

Yes, because I'm evil, not because I misunderstood you or anything.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Communication is somewhat of a leadership skill, but the leader can't hog all the glory as this is a team game. How well you communicate with each other is based on your personality. Cooperation, intellect and perception are all personality traits.

So you are agreeing that communication IS a skill? That was my only point. Sure, it's more important for the group's leader. I agree.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
For example, I'm an INTJ, which is Introvert iNituitive Thinking Judgmental personality type. My personality traits makes me a background leader.

Thank you DrRPG. My personality type is SARCASTIC, which makes me a sarcastic smart ass.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
In GW, your personality trait influences the class choice you make and how well you play it where as in other MMORPGs, you personality trait show well you can adapt in the middle of battle. Again, in GW, personality traits effects your ability to cooperate and use teamwork.

Whatever you say man. I think you are reading too much into it but that's just my opinion of your psychoanalysis of the persona/class connection, so don't take it too personally.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Nothing in this paragraph made any since you didn't clarify your own definition of skill and you exaggrated points like how people view this game.

My definition of skill in a mmorpg was, if you had paid any attention, time and levels. And maybe some uber l33t super duper godly plus 9 wand of studliness.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
As I said, people in these games like to play individually rather than collectively.

Fine, I'm not one of them but I won't argue with you over something that I haven't really seen.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
They like to stand out in game. You can argue to you're blue in the face, you'd still be wrong on how you viewed it. If you took the time to read the post of those who support GW and those who didn't, again, you'll see that those people are like-minded and are use to the gameplay and atmosphere of your standard MMORPG. It's not that they couldn't adapt, they just feel unsatifised not being able to stand out and very out of place in a new setting. Just like immigrants in America.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You can stand out in GW. There are a few "famous" GW people that come to mind. Read the GW guru forums once in a while. The difference is that you ACTUALLY have to be good at the game to stand out in the GW community. That means NOT levels, NOT gear and NOT even imagined roxxors. Does it make you mad that you can't 'be cool' without your l33t uber gear and 300 n00b PWNing levels? ::::18::

Honestly though, go play a damn MMORPG if that gets your rocks off. Why keep bitching about Guild Wars on the Guild Wars forum?

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
To clarify what I'm speak of, I'll give two perfect examples: Super Smash Bros and World of Warcraft. In Super Smash Brothers 1 & 2, everyone has different moves, strength and weakness. Their strengths and weakenss are personal to the character, no matter how strong or feeble each character is. Donkey Kong is very strong, but it doesn't mean he can beat Kirby who is twice as fast as DK. On the flip side, a defensive DK can beat an offensive DK.

According to A.Net, from the beginning was always about the paper, rock, scissors mechanic. If you see it as a flaw fine, go play something else and shut up.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
World of Warcraft is another example because the underrated Warrior can beat the Rogue, the hunter can beat many spellcasters in the game, etc. The only imbalancing issue is the paladin who has been nerf into uselessness in PvP by Blizzard. Though, the class strength play a role in who you can beat, skill DOES make a huge difference at increasing your chance to beat other class outside of your class fuction. I watched a video of paladin taking a whole zephyr of Horde and a Tauren warrior take out nearly a whole battlefield of enemies in PvP with one blow.

So what? I can make a warrior that solo's griffons endlessly. Who cares? If 'skill' against mobs is what you are after then you should be playing a MMORPG not crying about a CORPG not being one when it wasn't ever supposed to be one to begin with.

Show me an example of what you think balanced PvP is where you can 'feel important' and still get a hard on over your unique mad skills. Then we'll have an actual comparison to make. For me, I would say Team Fortress. GW is a lot like team fortress in that it requires communication skills, timing skills, strategy skills, reactionary skills and hand-eye-coordination/reflex skills. Guild Wars is missing one of those: reflex.

P.S. Blizzard is synonymous with PvP uselessness.

Originally posted by Zonzai
No, absolutely wrong. That proves that certain classes are weaker or stronger against other classes and nothing else.
Each class has a role to play; necromancers aren't supposed to heal as well as monks. There's nothing imbalanced about that. Certain functions, such as healing, may be more important than others, such as interruption, but that doesn't mean that the classes are imbalanced. It means that they are different. Which is a good thing if you ask me.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
And I couldn't disagree more with what you said. Not only what you said didn't make any sense or related to a class's strength over another class, but it was a clear exaggration of class strength's and weakness. Necromancer's effectivenss to heal as a partial monk has nothing to do with why he may or may not be better than the monk as a healer.

Yes I exAggerated, so what? Are you implying that nowhere in any of your writings have you done the same?

And I thought it was pretty damn clear. Each profession has a unique function (save maybe rangers). Some of those functions are more important than others, which is the same damn thing that you go on to say in your lengthy, drawn-out, exasperating post.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
The necromancer strength is that he can kill you through DoT or Vampire spells. Necro are mostly effective against warriors, but since warriors aren't a real threat in this game (nearly every class can deflect a warrior), the Necromancer strength's mean very little so the game has two class that aren't all that useful and aren't balanced to be versatile.

Read my reply above. I'm not here to debate the usefulness of certain capabilities over others. Every game that I have ever played or heard of with a class system suffers from the same problem. Certain classes, like healing classes, are simply more important. At least GW lessens this separation by allowing one to choose two classes.

The warrior and necromancer have strengths and weakness just like all of the other professions. But that doesn't mean a damn thing. It's not about what a class can potentially do, it's about what a class can do with the 8 skills that they bring. (Or the 8 skills that you can bring with 16 class combo's on 8 characters.) Not everybody brings 8 anti-warrior builds to the fight. Now who's exaggerating?

It's all so clear to me now. Warriors suck so bad that those IWAY builds are completely lame and were never FoTM. And Ive seen a very good video of 6 necros and 2 monks kicking ass in HoH. So what?

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Now the Ranger and Mesmer have the biggest advantage in the game...

Now, where did I put that big flashing neon OPINION sign at..?

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
...since they are anti-caster classes and 5/6 of the class in this game use energy-based skills. Out of the two, the mesmer is the strongest because that class can 1) cast through walls, 2) Can speed up delayed spells and 3) neturalize all class including the warrior and ranger.

So that makes them unbalanced even though they give up almost everything else to be able to neturalize people? Spirit spam was unbalanced but mesmers no.

Healing and anti-casters are important, yes. These functions are crucial to the PvP game. But if monks and mesmers are so overpowered then why doesnt everybody in the top 100 play just those two (or three) professions?

Mesmers are important because caster shutdown is important. Healing is important because keeping people alive is important. Damage dealers are important because killing your enemies is the end objective of the game. There are only a few classes to cover two of those aspects but a bunch to cover the other. But that doesnt mean that the classes are unbalanced, it just means that you need a healer and an anti-caster and a damage dealer and youve really only got one or two choices for two of them and five choices for the other. Maybe ANet could just delete three or four classes so that you can feel needed with your Killroy wannabe warrior.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Now on the subject of class function which you were talking about; being able to heal makes the monk a vital key player in 95% of the team strategies. As I said, the gameplay is very simplistic and pvp is no exception since most teams use a monk to keep the whole team alive. Almost every person on the team in the game know that the monk is the first person to take down in the group making strategies in this game near identical.

I won't and didn't disagree with this. But have you ever actually played GvG? Because its not about killing the monks in GvG. Its about killing the lord and killing the lord alone. Everything else is just the path along the way to the lords house. It doesnt matter if you do it by DP, if you do it with a lure, if you do it with a rush or if you stumble through it with luck and stupidity. Monks have to die yes, but only because they heal, not because that wins the game. If this is how you GvG its a small wonder that you are even rated 3000 or whatever.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

As I said a thousand time, what decides the winner or loser in this game is dumb luck.

Only at the highest or lowest level of play. A level of play that 99% of us do NOT fit into. It must really suck to be 99% wrong a thousand times. Let me guess which 1% you are in... the highest? Am I right, huh?

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
I'm not speaking negatively, but you go into the fights blind because the battles are randomize. You don't know what classes and moves they are using until you meet them.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
You can only HOPE your team has an anti-everything strategy or the other team screws up thei strategy or brought the wrong class/team build, spells or special moves to battle. (But in your eyes the other team wasn't obviously skilled enough or just plain sucked.) There is no skill to this game, just strategy and dumb luck.

You are the ::::24:: of gross generalizations.

Yes, sometimes chance can win the fight. But it's usually strategy, experience, communication and a bit of common sense that wins the fight. I find that those lacking in or two of these areas are the first to say that the game requires no skill. But that's just an opinion based on my experiences over time with repetition.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Of course, you'll disagree, trying exaggrate the gameplay to make it SEEM more complicated then it really is. Yet, any buffoon can see what I say is true if they take the time to analyze the game routines and gameplay closely. (How do you think my guild of rank 600th beat two teams in the top 100s.)

Random accidents happen and one single accident can make or break a fight but winning a couple of fights through pure dumb luck doesn't put you into the top 100. Next you'll be telling me that because football games can be decided by the luck of a single kick that football has nothing to do with skill.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Clearly, an intelligent mind can see through your bullshit immature front to appear smart. A lot this stuff is trival to the advantage college student, yet you manage to make it sound un-intelligent babbling. Next time try to clarify what you are saying instead of redefining words to fit your perceptive or exaggrate a point.

You're right. ::::08:: You are so much smarter than I, and everything that you just said proves that fact beyond the shadow of a doubt. But at least I am smart enough to use a damn spellchecker.

Originally posted by CaptainRPG

I'm pretty sure right now, you're hoping someone comes in and changes the subject with an insult/sarcasm remark so you can capitalize on it. Am I right?

Doesnt it make you feel better to vent? ::::40::

Honestly, after reading many of your posts -- all of which are stupid -- I can only take anything you say half seriously. Thats why I am being such a smart ass to you. Youre a WoW fanboy and we all damn well know it. So please go troll the WoW forums. Or, if you would prefer, I could go there an bitch about how much I hate WoW, even though Ive obviously played it far less than you have (remember now, time = skill in a mmorpg).

max001 · October 2005

that is a long post and i'm crazy enough to be able finish reading it

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Its funny (and Im laughing as we speak) seeing how you got pissed off at my last post. I believe this argument is over. Apparently, you are incapable of clarifying your answers (which is why you contradict yourself), unable to comprehend fact, holding an argument, not much less a conversation, without completely going off the topic or making a bad attempt at sarcasm with weak and blunt insults. At least some of the people Ive argued with in the past could be both witty and intellectual. You seem to lack both.

Anyway, we've stray way off the original post, which was the reason people are becoming "crybabies," which had to do with the new and unfamiliarity of guild wars community and gameplay and that both sides (fans and nay-sayers) are uncomfortable with the new game, which is why they prefer standard rpg settings. I'm going to reply to a few of the statements you made then I'm going to be on my merry way since the rest of statements were just...I'm just going to be the bigger man and stop right here.

Originally posted by zonzai

Thank you DrRPG. My personality type is SARCASTIC, which makes me a sarcastic smart ass.

Did anyone find this even remotely funny?

Whatever you say man. I think you are reading too much into it but that's just my opinion of your psychoanalysis of the persona/class connection, so don't take it too personally.

There is nothing to read, your personality for a FACT affects your choices. The class people picks are based on what fits their personality. People who have aggressive personalities are more likely to pick a warrior or rogue class where people have observe personalities are more likely to pick ranger or spellcaster. The same analogy is applied when using personality test to apply for real life occupations in college.

So you are agreeing that communication IS a skill? That was my only point.

No, your original point was that the game was a skilled based game when it wasn't. Communication, verbal or non-verbal, is required in order to establish cooperation so that point was pretty null.

Fine, I'm not one of them but I won't argue with you over something that I haven't really seen.

Nobody said you were. And how can you haven't seem them when they are the same people who asked for 1vs1 pvp.

My definition of skill in a mmorpg was, if you had paid any attention, time and levels. And maybe some uber l33t super duper godly plus 9 wand of studliness.

Time and levels don't mean dick since on many GW forums, many players have bragged about being level 13 or 15 and winning TPK in a team of level 20s. During my time in WoW, a level 40 warrior took out a level 50 mage. Time doesn't mean jack since Shamans in WoW take little skill to use to be good with them.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

SURPRISE!!!

There are a few "famous" GW people that come to mind. Read the GW guru forums once in a while.

Matter a fact; I came from the GW forums. They only recognized INDIVIDUAL teams, not individual people, thank you. The only people who got pissed for not being recognized as individuals were the administrators who were apart of the 209th rank team (at the time) who did TPK runs with spirit groups. (TPK isn't really a place of skill)

According to A.Net, from the beginning was always about the paper, rock, and scissors mechanic. If you see it as a flaw fine, go play something else and shut up.

I like how you promote A.Net then...

But it's usually strategy, experience, communication and a bit of common sense that wins the fight.

According to A.Net, experience isn't needed to learn the moves since not much time is spent learning the moves. Secondly, weren't you advocating that this game requires skill?

Random accidents happen and one single accident can make or break a fight...

Quoted earlier, "You can only HOPE your team has an anti-everything strategy or the other team screws up their strategy or brought the wrong class/team build, spells or special moves to battle."

LOL!!! The whole point I was making that FIGHTS IN THIS GAME are won mostly through dumb luck. You dont know what team you are going up against, you dont know build, spells or moves they are using. (this applies vice versa to the other team) So overall the battles are won ONLY because your team and the other team are unable to prepare their skills to specifically counter each others skills before battle.

If you could find out what your enemy was using before battle or be able to change skill during battle, this game would be skill based since you would be able to switch out moves in certain situations. By the way, some football games (both college and professional) have actually been won by a field with no team having made one touchdown the entire game.

You're right. You are so much smarter than I, and everything that you just said proves that fact beyond the shadow of a doubt. But at least I am smart enough to use a damn spellchecker.

And then...

Originally posted by zonzai

Yes I exAggerated, so what?

If this isnt the pot calling the kettle black, I dont know what is. By the way, I put all your response through my spellcheck and most of your sentence structures were horrid. (There was a lot more, but I'm not going to go in detail.) And attacking spelling is obviously a sign of defeat. I've seen too many arguements were KIDS like you will pick one word or words to nitpick at to divert the readers' attention at the fact they are getting their ass chewed out.

P.S. Blizzard is synonymous with PvP uselessness.

The only complaints about WoWs PvP are the honor points and PvP at end game from what I read on both the official board and MMORPG.com forums.

Show me an example of what you think balanced PvP is where you can 'feel important' and still get a hard on over your unique mad skills.

WoW is the only MMORPG that is nigh balance (It still has a few class issues) and you can use skill to increase your chances of winning. Armor and weapons doesnt mean jack since weve had plenty of stories of half-nude rogues beating people in pvp with a crude dagger.

Good Night, good fight.

Aydrian · October 2005

Can't we just accept that people have their own views, preferences, likes, dislikes, on this game that decide whether or not they like playing it?

I NEVER thought I'd like a game like this. But I do. Just recently I joined a Guild full of a lot of really cool people. We all help each other out in missions and quests and generally have a very fun time. Many of us are on an actual first name basis. I'm having FUN in this game, that is what's important.

I've seen a lot of people complain about this game. I like the game so of course I stand up for it. Most of the time though, the complaints are based off personal views. I don't have a problem with even half the stuff people have complained about. They're not going to get everything right. Especially a new company who's working on something that no one has attempted before.

I know there are some diehard critics out there and most of them are fans of common MMORPG's. I am too believe it or not, but I'm cutting this game some slack. Even you guys can admit this game still has A LOT of potential. With an expansion pack coming out some time next year, new things will be added. It hasn't been confirmed but there will probably be new Professions, different Races, A LOT of new content, and probably a whole lot of fixes for bugs that people are complaining about.

Just give it some time to develope. Since it's release this game has seen more improvement and dedication then any game I've ever played. This games problems outweighs the lack of monthly fees to most people. But to me, I don't see them as problems. I just see them as another obstacle that Anet is probably going to end up fixing. I'm excited to see what they'll come out with next, and the many new features and changes that are to come.

I'd much rather enjoy this game now, and keep enjoying it later, wrather than hate it now, and wait until things change.

Minders · October 2005

Please do continue, it's interesting to read. Also, if you guys continue like this there might even be a world record in "longest post without point" coming this way. Anyway, I agree with whoever started the topic. There really are to many crybabies surrounding this game. I also feel that I (undortunatley) can't take part in this discussion since I have no experience with other ORPG, thus I can't compare it with other games. The only thing I can say is that there is way to much "elitism" in this game.

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Originally posted by Aydrian
Can't we just accept that people have their own views, preferences, likes, dislikes, on this game that decide whether or not they like playing it?

I can accept another person has a opinion, it's just that the other person has to realize, no matter how different our views are on GW, whether they are against the game or for it, we all want the same thing out of GW.

The people who are the so called crybabies are just fish out of water who want elements from standard MMORPGs to be put into GW and the ability to stand out. I'm not saying those people are right or wrong, I'm just giving you the low down from I understand after reading and analyzing these posts for myself.

8hammer8 · October 2005

Hey Aydrian:

Nice OP and as for your previous post, Ballsy...Stupid, but Ballsy.

Putting yourself between two big bad ram's ( or actually baby goats aka kids), you are taking your life in your own hands.

Minders, you would never believe what I found when I google searched your world record topic:

*******************************
* *
* WORLD RECORD *
* For *
* Longest Post Without A Point *
* While Being Completely Off Topic *
* *
* Presented To *
* *
* CaptainRPG and Zonzai *
* *
* *
********************************

::::08::

You both must be so proud!!!! ::::20::

Enjoy the games you play...if not, dont play them. ::::28::

CaptainRPG · October 2005

Originally posted by 8hammer8

You both must be so proud!!!!
Enjoy the games you play...if not, dont play them.

Nope, I argue 50 pages about comics in my younger days that went off the topic. Now that was a pointless and longest arguement I ever had.

8hammer8 · November 2005

Captain...there is some strange part of me that would be impressed to see a 50 page disertation on comics spring out of this thread. I say disertation and not discussion or arguement because I doubt anyone would get a word in edge wise ::::35:: . Anyways...here's to pointed off-topic arguement with seemingly no end ::::20::

Play games you find fun ::::28::

zonzai · November 2005

Hey now, he started it.

Younger years? What were you, like two?

If you think that those rants were particularly long or off topic, welcome to the internet n00b.

I thought the point of my posts was quite clear -- to piss CaptainMMORPG off for being a WoW fanboy.

And I do play games to have fun. I come to forums to mock people like CaptainWOWFANBOY here.

I'm sorry I didn't have an hour and a half to translate your last post into english Cpt.WOW because this is becoming quite fun. Maybe later though.

Honestly though, since our debate seems to be bothering people, I'll just let you have the last flame (not to mention the first). You need all the help that you can get anyway.

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