In my opinion, how you fair against other people shouldn't be determined by your speed and skill at action games. However, at the same time, I think that the true point of playing with other people should be playing with other people, not grinding. I also think that these games are more fun when you don't have to optimize and micromanage everything just to interact with other people.
Originally posted by aattss In my opinion, how you fair against other people shouldn't be determined by your speed and skill at action games. However, at the same time, I think that the true point of playing with other people should be playing with other people, not grinding. I also think that these games are more fun when you don't have to optimize and micromanage everything just to interact with other people.
The problem is without more action oriented combat you are left with what we've had for years. I have a higher level so I'm better, I have better gear so I'm better, I have the rock to your scissor so I'm better. No skill, no thinking, just some mechanic in game that decided you were better lol.
I hate having to dodge and roll out of the way of stuff, I much prefer stat progression (dmg / mitigation) that improves survivability.
The more action oriented combat (Tera, GW2 to some extent) is fun for a little while but it definitely gets old.
I play MMO's to relax and enjoy the game world, not to feel like I need to be on my toes for each friggin mob I happen to run into.
And no one says you cannot have stat progression with action combat. No one says you have to be on the toes if you out level the mob.
Just look at games like Borderlands. it is 100% action combat .. but after you out-level an area, you can go in and just walk all over mobs.
Actiony combat has no conflict with progression.
Other than the fact that his statement says he prefers one over the other. The problem is with the action combat itself. I want at least one new MMO that puts stats and slow paced combat to the fore instead of every single one of them going to action style combat and completely screwing our segment of the player base over.
He sounds as if it is one or the other .. and that is totally untrue.
And why is it a "problem"? What you want is just a preference. No one is oblige to provide it to you. And there are plenty of MMOs with slow combat. WOW just put out a new expansion. Go play that.
Originally posted by aattss In my opinion, how you fair against other people shouldn't be determined by your speed and skill at action games. However, at the same time, I think that the true point of playing with other people should be playing with other people, not grinding. I also think that these games are more fun when you don't have to optimize and micromanage everything just to interact with other people.
The problem is without more action oriented combat you are left with what we've had for years. I have a higher level so I'm better, I have better gear so I'm better, I have the rock to your scissor so I'm better. No skill, no thinking, just some mechanic in game that decided you were better lol.
Exactly the reason why I don't do PVP in MMOs. There are tons of better options for that.
Originally posted by ShakyMo This tab based combat is "tactical" stuff is nonsense.
Wow more tactical than planetside? Rift more tactical than darkfall?
Dont make me laugh
Can't handle the truth, huh? LOL There is a difference between tactical combat and tactical organization. WoW has more of the former while planetside 2 had more of the latter.
Exactly Vor, though the distinction may prove too subtle here for some.
Anyhow, even in terms of organisation, maybe this guy hasn't seen a full blown raid happening in something like EQ.
Exactly Vor, though the distinction may prove too subtle here for some.
Anyhow, even in terms of organisation, maybe this guy hasn't seen a full blown raid happening in something like EQ.
But the point is no everyone like to organize. I was in EQ and i was in WOW. Even wow raid is too much work for a game (except of course LFR).
No everyone thinks it is more fun that you have to run meetings, and schedules just to play a game. I have plenty of those in real work.
Don't make it sound like it is superior to organize in a game. It is just a game, not real achievement.
You people sometimes seem to be just always looking for the fight in everything said... I did not say it was 'superior' to organise.
I get that some don't like to organise, or be organised. I actually don't raid myself partly due to this (though I do love co-op small group play).
I simply was saying that to say a slower combat older game dosent have tactial organisation was wrong. They obviously do, as well as their combat generally being less zergy and more tactical in itself (IMO) then most modern action MMORPGs.
I think certain aspects of action combat make sense and are very tacticle but too much action combat makes moving around the focus instead of spell/ability strategy. How to enable both seems tough but if you start with, say, GW2 and change the "numbers" around or tweak the abilities available you could end up with a balanced system. Take GW2, have 15 abilities instaed of 10 and add in reactionary defensive abilities to mitigate more damage if you want to stand still. One thing I don't like about tab targetting is the lock on aspect. I want to be able to move out of the way.
New MMORPGs are created by people who were inspired by other MMORPGs. Old MMORPGs were created by people who were inspired by table top gaming. At least that is what it feels like to me.
I never cared for mmorpg combat. And at this rate, probably never will. Though for mmos (and any game where you control 1 character for that matter) I will say that action is the way to go, but only if it is done well.
Hotkey combat systems like the one in WoW is both kinda untactical compared to actual tactical games out there (even some action games, like the mmofps Planetside), it also doesnt provide an adrenaline rush like action games do, as a result, I dont find the system to really achieve anythin. Action mmorpgs imo have a lot more potential, but mmo devs keep messing up on the execution.
Personally, I just wish more mmos would focus less on action and combat and instead focus more on simulating a world.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Word of advice. PARAGRAPHS!
Phrase of advice; it's considered impolite to use capitals on the internet. It is perceived as shouting.
I got a headache from the OP posts, i don't mind it being concieved as shouting.
Anywho, I'm kinda liking the slight mix. WHile classic combat is where we started from it is not something im a huge fan of, Lets face it classic was "stand there and hit one, wait for victory" While things like TSW have "run you build Dodge telegraphed attacks, Kite to keep optiomal Distance" Which i find more fun. I always hated WoW combat for lack of mobility.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Word of advice. PARAGRAPHS!
Phrase of advice; it's considered impolite to use capitals on the internet. It is perceived as shouting.
I got a headache from the OP posts, i don't mind it being concieved as shouting.
Anywho, I'm kinda liking the slight mix. WHile classic combat is where we started from it is not something im a huge fan of, Lets face it classic was "stand there and hit one, wait for victory" While things like TSW have "run you build Dodge telegraphed attacks, Kite to keep optiomal Distance" Which i find more fun. I always hated WoW combat for lack of mobility.
Intersting, I hate combat in TSW because your character moves around like a squirrel on meth. The combat more than anything ruined my immersion and ability to appreciate that game. Warcraft may not be perfect but at least when you do move around (not mounted) it feels more real honestly and doesn't feel like I'm trying to control a rag doll sliding all over lubed up lineoleum.
Comments
The only style of combat that I can honestly say I really dislike is turn based. And that's basically because it ruins immersion.
The combat styles of WoW, GW2 and TSW are fine. Each one is a bit different but they work for their particular game.
The problem is without more action oriented combat you are left with what we've had for years. I have a higher level so I'm better, I have better gear so I'm better, I have the rock to your scissor so I'm better. No skill, no thinking, just some mechanic in game that decided you were better lol.
He sounds as if it is one or the other .. and that is totally untrue.
And why is it a "problem"? What you want is just a preference. No one is oblige to provide it to you. And there are plenty of MMOs with slow combat. WOW just put out a new expansion. Go play that.
Exactly the reason why I don't do PVP in MMOs. There are tons of better options for that.
Exactly Vor, though the distinction may prove too subtle here for some.
Anyhow, even in terms of organisation, maybe this guy hasn't seen a full blown raid happening in something like EQ.
But the point is no everyone like to organize. I was in EQ and i was in WOW. Even wow raid is too much work for a game (except of course LFR).
No everyone thinks it is more fun that you have to run meetings, and schedules just to play a game. I have plenty of those in real work.
Don't make it sound like it is superior to organize in a game. It is just a game, not real achievement.
You people sometimes seem to be just always looking for the fight in everything said... I did not say it was 'superior' to organise.
I get that some don't like to organise, or be organised. I actually don't raid myself partly due to this (though I do love co-op small group play).
I simply was saying that to say a slower combat older game dosent have tactial organisation was wrong. They obviously do, as well as their combat generally being less zergy and more tactical in itself (IMO) then most modern action MMORPGs.
Phrase of advice; it's considered impolite to use capitals on the internet. It is perceived as shouting.
I never cared for mmorpg combat. And at this rate, probably never will. Though for mmos (and any game where you control 1 character for that matter) I will say that action is the way to go, but only if it is done well.
Hotkey combat systems like the one in WoW is both kinda untactical compared to actual tactical games out there (even some action games, like the mmofps Planetside), it also doesnt provide an adrenaline rush like action games do, as a result, I dont find the system to really achieve anythin. Action mmorpgs imo have a lot more potential, but mmo devs keep messing up on the execution.
Personally, I just wish more mmos would focus less on action and combat and instead focus more on simulating a world.
I got a headache from the OP posts, i don't mind it being concieved as shouting.
Anywho, I'm kinda liking the slight mix. WHile classic combat is where we started from it is not something im a huge fan of, Lets face it classic was "stand there and hit one, wait for victory" While things like TSW have "run you build Dodge telegraphed attacks, Kite to keep optiomal Distance" Which i find more fun. I always hated WoW combat for lack of mobility.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Intersting, I hate combat in TSW because your character moves around like a squirrel on meth. The combat more than anything ruined my immersion and ability to appreciate that game. Warcraft may not be perfect but at least when you do move around (not mounted) it feels more real honestly and doesn't feel like I'm trying to control a rag doll sliding all over lubed up lineoleum.