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The advantage to sub fees
Camaro68
Member Posts: 50
Something I've noticed since the pre-launch hype of GW2 is alot people are saying that free=better. Publishers who charge a sub fee are greedy corporate megalomaniacs, etc...
But at the same, when you have to submit a payment to keep playing a game, you tend to value your time with that game more. F2P games feel disposable; you didn't really invest much to get into the game and there's nothing to stop you from acting like a tool while you're in the game. Or for that matter, quitting the game just as quickly as you started it.
What I would like to see is a more proactive subscription model. As in, I choose what portion of the development budget my subscription dollars are going to go toward:
-Expanding the gameplay with more depth
-More group content
-More raiding content
-More solo content
-etc
Us subbers are essentially investors. We more or less buy stock in the games we like and we support the development efforts with our dollars. Developers in this day and age would be wise to poll their subscribers to find out what we want instead of pushing a "vision" on us or waiting until we've left to make necessary changes.
Comments
As a consumer, you should see that as a disadvantage to subscription model not advantage. It should be "ZOMG this is cool!" that keeps you playing, not post-purchase choice-supportive bias.
In regards to your suggestion for how the money is spent, you pretty much explained an advantage to item malls. If people are buying up guns, more guns are made. If people are buying up extra dungeons, more extra dungeons are made. If people are going gaga for weddings, parties and personal events then more of those are offered.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
personally - im neutral on whatever business model is used
that said,
any sub game has the same issues as f2p or freemium during your first month
your first month buying a sub game, there is no obligation to sub beyond the first month
regarding acting like a tool
-- most mmos support reporting disruptive players and can/will lead to temporary/permanent bans
EQ2 fan sites
I guess another question is, how can an item mall be used to spur the developer into creating more of the type of content we want? I know items can be considered content, but I mean group content, dungeons, you know... expansion stuff. It might be easy to buy a gun and thus get more guns, but I certainly don't want to be unlocking dungeon by dungeon via cash shop. That will truly make me feel like I am being nickel and dimed.
And after a bit more thought, while the OP is onto something, I think the community has proven that we are unreliable in our tastes. We have received everything we asked for in MMO gaming. The devs took the requests they heard and ran with it (but sadly didn't stop to see our comments after). Still not entirely opposed to the idea, but I don't think it would work. I would suggest maybe a hub that the community of a certain MMO can gather too and vote on. Only subbed players would have a voice and be able to somewhat dictate the direction of the game.
I also agree with your point that basically, the payment you made shouldn't be what keeps you hooked.
No you are not. There is no guarantee that the subscription money helps towards speeding up development or better quality content. Also, It definately is not a financial investment like building stock. Most gaming companies are not even transparent with their finances. You can only guess what is being done with your money.
The only entitlement that a subscription gives is getting access to the game.
agree
anything else is guessing / assumptions
most sub games also have cash shops -- its all revenue going to some purpose(s)
EQ2 fan sites
"I guess another question is, how can an item mall be used to spur the developer into creating more of the type of content we want?"
Where players spend money, how they spend the money and the frequency that they spend it on certain items is combined with metrics on where and how they are playing the game. The tinfoilhat crowd will read that as devs seeing that people are buying x to do content y so creep content y up so x is necessary, but that's simply not how it works. Since people are showing they enjoy both x and y, it's far more lucrative to make more variations of both.
Combat Arms is a good example of that, and there are now about 300 different guns players can buy, many of which are skinned variations of existing guns.
Expansions are another good example. In most MMOs, you either have to buy the expansion to progress further or you are locked out of both the new content and the further advancement. Even worse, there may be only one out of the six new features that you may be interested in, but you have to buy all six to get that one. Devs can look at data over time to see which content people are preferring to engage in, but a la carte pruchase of that content not only gives them better data sooner but also shows earlier what the main attractions of the expansion were. It complements the in-game activity of the players, as one primarily shows popularity due to accessibility and rewards and the other primarily shows popularity through desire to purchase.
For example, if Pandaria was sold as separate components for the same price, it would be easier to see the difference between the people that bought it for the new land and the people that bought it for the new race, since those two purchases would be separate.
Now, Blizzard has all sorts of data coming out its corporate butt three ways to Sunday, so they probably knew the answer to that before even a single pre-order was sold, but apply that to most other companies, especially indies who don't have dedicated marketing teams and three guys locked in a room doing OLAP research and endless SQL queries.
If you were running Madazz World Online, and you saw that most of the people were buying your expanded land but not your new race, you would adjust your development accordingly:
To reiterate, the purchasing data is part of the formula, not a solution unto itself. Combined with feature usage and playing patterns, it can help devs create more content tailored to what the players show that they want.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why I prefer sub fees to f2p:
- Entry barrier for botters
- Entry barrier for children
- Game does not maximize inconvenience to make you buy in the shop (grind, inventory size, experience potions etc.).
- You are not constantly reminded to buy in the shop - good for immersion.
- New "events" are not there to rip you off. Vindictus christmas event: Buy 1 rune - get 1 extra for free.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
It's the mindset of the company and devs really that is affected by subs or not.
In F2P, content is always divided into what is free and what has to be in the cash shop. In other words, the devs are consciously calculating on splitting the content.
In subs, everything is included so devs don't have to worry about splitting content.
I know it sounds trivial but I really do think subs allow devs to work more freely than when having to deal with cash shops.
That would only be true if there was sub only model. As we know there really aren't sub only games anymore.
Well, ideally I'd love a sub only model even if it meant a slightly higher monthly rate.
I do understand why companies don't do just subs anymore though. It's silly to restrict their customers in how much money to spend on their product.
Some valid points. However, I still think there would be some issues. Simply put, people may restrict themselves to certain tasks/options in the game as a result of what would be deemed as a "wise" purchase in the store. So for instance, you may want to purchase something in hopes of using it towards your in game house, where as everyone else is investing into stuff for dungeon runs. If the audience is overwhelmingly focused in one area, another part of the game that may not be the focus, but just as equally important will be neglected. So, I think your idea is logical, but in my opinion it would better suit a more closed MMO such as PS2 as opposed to an open one such as UO. Know what I mean? In PS2 the game is more focused, where as in UO if you neglected those wood cutters / wool gatherers a major part of the community that not only provides a social aspect (more people), but also your items, would be neglected because they are (and were) the minority. Now I am not saying your idea wouldn't work at all, I just feel some issues would be presented.
Also, MadAzz World Online? Not a bad idea, but knowing me I would run wild with it. The game would be an open world much akin to UO, but with the ridiculousness of the Heavy Metal books/movie and bad-assery of The Expendables lol. You know what... now I am wanting a GI JOE MMO too... ugh... so many wants.
They should just put a quarter slot on all the theme park rides. You pay into the game and spend it where you like.
The rides that get the most money get the most love from the developer.
I kind of agree except the investor part. Investors invest to get a monetary return where as us gamers do not (not most of us anyway).
Other than that, yes. A clear advantage to sub. fees is that the developers can focus on creating a better game for the existing subscriber base and at the same time expand it to include others. Where as the focus of F2P games would be to put stuff in the cash shop which will give them greater returns from a select few.
The monocle nonsense in Eve is an example of that. I believe it cost like 50 bucks or something but had over 100 people buying just this one stupid item which in turn generated a return to the devs but did nothing for the thousands of people not vain enough to pay 50 bucks for a virtual monocle. Multiply this with all the other cosmetical nonsense which the devs. spend time creating because they know that some people will spend money on them and you can see how much development resource is wasted on what could be content accessable by all subscribers.
My gaming blog
I agree.
In a sub game, players and developers are allies. The developers goal is to ensure that players enjoy themselves so they will maintain their subscription. Sure, sometimes they resort to underhanded tactics like timesinks to try to keep you, but ultimately, the only way a sub game can be successful long-term (e.g. WoW, EVE, etc.) is for the players to enjoy playing it.
In a F2P game, players and developers are not allies. The player is always looking to get as much enjoyment as they can without spending excessive money - observe how happy players are when they can earn cash shop currency in game, like in LOTRO, or exchange in-game currency for it, like GW2, or buy cash shop items from other players. The developer is always looking to get more money out of the players - every design decision must be motivated by this goal. Deliberate inconveniences, pay-to-win tactics, gambling - every underhanded tactic must be considered, with its profitability weighed up against its potential to drive away angry players.
Interesting concept. Not one I've seen before. Possibly a few exceptions on both sides, but overall, yeah, I can see it.
Free-to-Play + Cash Shop = Locusts and bots paradise, both have loads of time to play and farm for free, selling the items to the average players at Trading Post. Basically, an average player rip-off from both the company and Locusts/Bots. In this case companies take away a good deal of "gold selling" from bots selling gold via Cash Shop.
Buy-to-Play + Cash Shop = Still good for Locusts and Bots because after the initial investment to buy the game this model is exactly like Free-to-Play + Cash Shop.
Subscription only = Old model, everyone pays the same, Bots and Locusts still earn money selling their farmed items in-game but at least they have to pay a subscription like everyone else. This model shies away most of Locusts, usually greedier than Bots. Its a kind of paradise for Bots because they can sell items/gold without too much competition. Very prone to gold sellers on the internet, companies loose a lot of income because they dont sell in-game gold via Cash Shop.
Subscription + Cash Shop = I think this model is the best. Locusts and Bots have an harder/more expensive life, company sells in-game gold via Cash Shop. Everyone pays the same to access content, average players can buy gold legally from Cash Shop. If Cash Shop is managed honestly by the company, with interesting/No Play-to-Win items to buy and untampered rate between gems/in-game gold, this model is fair to everyone and drain a lot of gold selling from Bots. This model is the worst enemy of Bots.
Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
[laughs]
Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
[walks away]
Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
Sheldon: What?
Penny: This plasma grenade.
[explosion]
Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Haha, well put.
Agree with both of these. The OP post is fundamentally flawed. If you doubt this and believe that people who pay subs have any investment or stock just ask all the ones with accounts on CoX.
I don't really agree with this idea, because that puts the future of the game in the hands of the majority. Most players are kind of retarded in a bad way and I'd much rather have the developers vision of the game. Just about every game would end up similar to World of Warcraft with social networking features and in-game pinterest. Seriously, the majority enjoy easy games that don't require any skill or knowledge to play.
Free to Play games also aren't as free as they seem. Most of them are virtually endless moneysinks if you have the expendable cash to actually explore them. They mostly function by assuming that 95% are just freeloaders or minimal spenders and the other 5% are willing to waste thousands of dollars. Go check out some of the Asian grinders with items like Mounts and VIP access crossing the $2,000 mark in terms of price.
I think that Pay to Play and Free to Play are both crappy payment models. I'd rather have Buy to Play with cosmetics and a convenience cash shop. The infrequent cost of expansions seems more appealing to me than having to deal with the endless restrictions of Free to Play or the mandatory cost of Pay to Play.
I doubt anyone here believes that having a sub somehow entitles the player to expect the game to continue or develop in a way they want it. I think we are discussing how different types of revenue streams affect how a developer creates content.
Like goldy and bronzy only made of iron.
However the point is moot and the arguement is superfluous, we already lost, move on.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Well I am 100% for sub games but at the same time i understand they are not for everyone. In most cases imo sub mmo's generally do better and have better all around everything than do ftp again imo.
Also take note that you are on an MMORPG forum, and I would safely say 60-75% of the posters on these forums are hardcore ftp fanbois.
And yes go ahead and come out fanbois and chew me a new one because I know you will
I miss the massive in MMO.