Personally I agree in some ways, but I know some people will bash the game because they don't understand how its done.
I like how emphasis was made on community instead of grinding skills, because skills are real time based, leaving you time to do whatever you want with your corp mates. In other games you'd ask people if they wanted to go do some quests and they wouldn't want to because they wanted to get such and such skill before the end of the night.
EVE also is different in that its all one universe, no sharding. (chinese server doesn't count, different laws) Some dislike the game for reasons such as they feel they can't compete with people who have been playing for a long time. Of course you wont be able to economically because hes had more time to set up buisness and get aquinted with how the game works. But in PVP yes you can still beat them based on your own skill and tactics.
Well the thing is I find it a break from the Fantasy Genre Monotony. I mean its all about getting a group and going on a mission and killing some monsters, rinse and repeat. EVE is so much more. Pure PVP experience on my part (im a pirate there) and I love it.
Well Put EQ and UO as beginnings of 2 seperate branches of MMOs, under EQ you have pretty much everything, under UO is just EVE .
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
When I tried EVE I kinda found it slow and boring; the combat wasnt actiony enough for me, just click a target and choose your weapons to fire, your targeting system does the rest. But I can see why some players might like it.
EVE is for a certain type of person...ONLY...most people WILL find it boring...nuff said
(Well...at least they're curbing the jumping in on other peoples threads to promote it...oh...actually no they're not...the last 3 I've read all had someone saying...play EVE...guess I'll just have to put up with threads infected by EVE propaganda...like I have to put up with leets in GW and whiners in WoW)
Eve is the game people will keep comming back to. As long as the market pumps out these cookie cutter mmo's, niche games like Eve will feed on their failings and prosper. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that the steady increase in players eve has been seeing is largely thanks to WoW's horrid endgame.
Players today simply demand more then kill x ammount of monsters for y ammount of levels for p ammount of months for c ammount of dollars. Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
Well at least players with more then a void between their ears do.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by pirrg Well at least players with more then a void between their ears do.
You're effectively calling non-EVE-lovers...players with a void between their ears...
Well I submit the following EVE-lover for your perusal...use them next time you're building a case for your wonderful argument...
Originally posted by Eyes I play for the heart pumping PvP and the smacktalk after you blow up someones ship.
The void between my ears is quivering in anticipation at having my ship (that took me 3 boring months of asteroid mining to build) obliterated by an EVE-lover (and probably 50 of his/her closest friends) while he/she/they "smacktalk" me as I float in my pod.
I think that Eve has carved out a nice little niche for itself. It has some sevre pacing issues, but the overall game is well designed. I tend to look at Eve fanbois as "militant trekkies" due to the fact that they seem to want to cram this game down everyone's throat. It grows while other MMO's shrink, but it's also made it's community perceive itself as more "hardcore" than other MMO players. This "harder core than thou" attitude could potentially kill the whole damn genre as a mainstream staple of the game industry. Just ask an old school flight sim jock or a historical, turn based wargamer how beneficial "hardcore" players were to their genre. Check the shelves at Best Buy, you can count on one hand the number of flight sims and traditional wargames that are on the shelves. The same thing could happen to MMOs if the community doesn't turn it down a notch.
I agree with the poster who said that many genre players don't understand Eve.
If you think about it, EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC - all have the same kinds of rules. They may not be exactly the same, but I can ask anyone who plays these games what level they are and I will probably get an answer with a number in the sentence (e.g. level 5).
Ask that same question to an Eve player...
Likewise, ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player what class they are playing, and I will probably get an answer with a label in the sentence (e.g. Wizard).
Ask that same question to an Eve player....
Ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player how the banks work in the game and I will probably get one of the following answers A) Banks are distributed across the world and I can get my stuff from any bank or, Each bank is unique and I have to travel to get my stuff.
Ask that same question to an Eve player.....
Finally, ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player how the economy works in the game. I will probably get a lengthy, informative answer.
Ask that same question to an Eve player?
My point of course, is that Eve is really nothing like these other games. Those other games are lots of fun. I played many of them. But to be honest, if I played one, I could almost say I played the other. One of the best examples of that is EQ1 and WOW. I played EQ1 for four years and then played WOW. I thought WOW was fantastic. Too bad it just felt like a more streamlined, modern, arcade-like version of EQ1.
If you log onto Eve for two weeks and think you understand the game, you are either a genius or a fool.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe I think that Eve has carved out a nice little niche for itself. It has some sevre pacing issues, but the overall game is well designed. I tend to look at Eve fanbois as "militant trekkies" due to the fact that they seem to want to cram this game down everyone's throat. It grows while other MMO's shrink, but it's also made it's community perceive itself as more "hardcore" than other MMO players. This "harder core than thou" attitude could potentially kill the whole damn genre as a mainstream staple of the game industry. Just ask an old school flight sim jock or a historical, turn based wargamer how beneficial "hardcore" players were to their genre. Check the shelves at Best Buy, you can count on one hand the number of flight sims and traditional wargames that are on the shelves. The same thing could happen to MMOs if the community doesn't turn it down a notch.
Militant Trekkies? What is a Trekkie?
Seriously though, the genres you mentioned killed themselves (or were killed by the devs of those games). There were barely any innovation in them and, so they got less and less players. Weirdly enough one of the most interesting games in turn based historical wargames was the WW1 version of Battle Isle, so originally an SF game, but aside from that there was barely anything new or interesting. Ofc, you can't reduce it to this one fact alone, yet its an important reason. With flightsims it was similar - the most innovate (from a gameplay perspective) was the alternate history game "Airpower", so not even a "true" flightsim. I agree with you in that some games were a bit "elitist" and not very accessible for new players of the genre, yet still that could not be seen as the only reason, why those two genres declined.
Comming back to EVE and to MMOs - eventhough some EVE "fanbois" here may put on an "elitist" attitude, there is still a lot of help to new players, more than in other games, which counts a lot. Its not about one growing, while others decline (which could just change in a month again). Its about how new players are treated in a game, and in that regard the EVE community is really helpful and not "elitist"/"hardcore" at all. While EVE is quite complex, I dont think that it is as hard as some people in these forums put it - even my gf understood it after a short time and is now in a pvp corp. EVE is actually easy, you just need to read the text (in the tutorial) and think a bit while playing - is that really so "hardcore"? Shouldn't more games have a higher "think factor", simply to keep them interesting and challenging?
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Originally posted by hadz The void between my ears is quivering in anticipation at having my ship (that took me 3 boring months of asteroid mining to build) obliterated by an EVE-lover (and probably 50 of his/her closest friends) while he/she/they "smacktalk" me as I float in my pod.
See this is how eve works. You figured stroking asteroids for 3 months would be the most effective way to get money while i jumped into various t1 ships and blew people up for money. It took me only 2 months to get enough money for a raven. During those two months i didnt mine a single roid. After my shiney raven had arrived i moved into 0.0 space and joined an alliance. This led to me chaining spawns, doing high end complexes, killing people and generally having a great time while earning a small fortune in the process.
In the meantime, you were still stroking roids. What does that say about you?
If you dont use your brain in eve, either the boredom or other players will kill you. CCP wont hold your hand from start to end like other games. Face it, you arent made for eve, go try wow/eq2/<insert flavour of the month mmo>. Goodbye and good riddance.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
The game is good enough to keep my paying even though i only play a couple hours a week. I got pretty bored once skills started taking 2 weeks to a month each. It seemed my only choices were mission running or mining. However i've started to PvP a bit when i do play. I mainly keep my account active to keep my skills going. To me It's nice game to have in addition to a game I spend more time on. Whether or not a secondary game is worth $15 a month is up to you.
It seems to me that you guys think that anyone who doesn't like eve, is automatically some dumb guy who can't use his brain.
First of all, the game wasn't as hard as some of you make it out to be. I found the learning curve to not even be that bad.
The thing that I honestly did not like about eve is that it felt so..dull. Take out the starry backround and replace it with trees. What do you have? A very boring game with practically the same backround everywhere you go(sure there's a few differences but it's nothing major). I don't know about you guys but the environment i'm in has alot to do with how much I like the game. I like seeing lot's of variety in the environment, not just the same thing over and over.
There are some major good points about eve too though. Once of them being the skill system which I found to be one of the most in depth out there. The pvp was also exactly how I like it.(high risk) Riding around in a spaceship wasn't all that bad either. I just wish that I could see inside my ship and walk around in it instead of just seeing it from the outside.
If you dont use your brain in eve, either the boredom or other players will kill you. CCP wont hold your hand from start to end like other games. Face it, you arent made for eve, go try wow/eq2/<insert flavour of the month mmo>. Goodbye and good riddance.
You still seem to think I'm dumb and need my hand held. A Tale in the Desert doesn't have ANY tutorial, is infinitely more complex than EVE and I swept through that quickly and easily...no hand holding required.
Just because we don't like your silly blow-things-up game doesn't mean we're stupid and ignorant.
And thank goodness EVE is keeping people like you occupied blowing up stuff so we don't have to have you ruining the games we play. (Hey...if you can get personal so can I)
PS. And it didn't take me anywhere near 3 months to realize EVE wasn't for me. Why don't you answer the point I made about your game, instead of making a personal attack...oh yeah...you'd rather just blow my ship up...right...I think you did answer my point...you proved exactly the type of people that play EVE.
If you don't like EVE, don't play it. A lot of us only heard of this game through these forums, and were only trying to help spread the word. Were not forcing anyone to play. Honestly, I really don't give a shit what you play. If you want to play WoW, have at it. We all might make fun of you, but try not to let that bother you too much. And for anyone who hasn't play EVE: I recommend the free trail. Its a pretty good game.
Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by pirrg If you dont use your brain in eve, either the boredom or other players will kill you. CCP wont hold your hand from start to end like other games. Face it, you arent made for eve, go try wow/eq2/<insert flavour of the month mmo>. Goodbye and good riddance.
You still seem to think I'm dumb and need my hand held. A Tale in the Desert doesn't have ANY tutorial, is infinitely more complex than EVE and I swept through that quickly and easily...no hand holding required. Just because we don't like your silly blow-things-up game doesn't mean we're stupid and ignorant. And thank goodness EVE is keeping people like you occupied blowing up stuff so we don't have to have you ruining the games we play. (Hey...if you can get personal so can I) PS. And it didn't take me anywhere near 3 months to realize EVE wasn't for me. Why don't you answer the point I made about your game, instead of making a personal attack...oh yeah...you'd rather just blow my ship up...right...I think you did answer my point...you proved exactly the type of people that play EVE.
I played ATITD for awhile, very fun game but also very niche(couldn't get any of my friends into it). Now pirrg was a bit rude but he was right, EVE is entirely open and after the tutorial there is no set path that the game will direct you on. You use the tools you're given to find your own path in the game.
Just reminded me how much I miss ATITD, when does T3 start damnit!
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
EVE online is incredibly over rated. Bland combat mixed with bland world mixed with bland players = EVE Online. There should be a warning when before you download this game , possibly something along the lines of "This game is tasteless and incredibly boring , only the ut most boring kinds of human beings should attempt to play"
Well i also playing eve for about a month and still dunno about my feelings as i liked it or not ... just playing atm ....but to be honest i cant say eve is fully a good mmo ''rpg'' while i (and also all players) can only see my character as just a picture on my screen....
EvE makes me go to sleep. Earth&Beyond was way better it was much more newbie friendly and you could actually get out of your ship!!!!!!!exclamation mark!!!111ONE1!! Also you were able to go down to planets and the planets were larger then your ship. It was a cool game until they shut it down.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Comments
Personally I agree in some ways, but I know some people will bash the game because they don't understand how its done.
I like how emphasis was made on community instead of grinding skills, because skills are real time based, leaving you time to do whatever you want with your corp mates. In other games you'd ask people if they wanted to go do some quests and they wouldn't want to because they wanted to get such and such skill before the end of the night.
EVE also is different in that its all one universe, no sharding. (chinese server doesn't count, different laws) Some dislike the game for reasons such as they feel they can't compete with people who have been playing for a long time. Of course you wont be able to economically because hes had more time to set up buisness and get aquinted with how the game works. But in PVP yes you can still beat them based on your own skill and tactics.
I would write more but i'm a wee bit tired.
Well Put EQ and UO as beginnings of 2 seperate branches of MMOs, under EQ you have pretty much everything, under UO is just EVE .
----------------------------------
MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
I think the game is good but way too overrated. It has plenty of flaws..they may be small flaws but enough to make me not want to play the game.
OMG...here we go again...
EVE is for a certain type of person...ONLY...most people WILL find it boring...nuff said
(Well...at least they're curbing the jumping in on other peoples threads to promote it...oh...actually no they're not...the last 3 I've read all had someone saying...play EVE...guess I'll just have to put up with threads infected by EVE propaganda...like I have to put up with leets in GW and whiners in WoW)
Eve is the game people will keep comming back to. As long as the market pumps out these cookie cutter mmo's, niche games like Eve will feed on their failings and prosper. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that the steady increase in players eve has been seeing is largely thanks to WoW's horrid endgame.
Players today simply demand more then kill x ammount of monsters for y ammount of levels for p ammount of months for c ammount of dollars. Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
Well at least players with more then a void between their ears do.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
You're effectively calling non-EVE-lovers...players with a void between their ears...
Well I submit the following EVE-lover for your perusal...use them next time you're building a case for your wonderful argument...
The void between my ears is quivering in anticipation at having my ship (that took me 3 boring months of asteroid mining to build) obliterated by an EVE-lover (and probably 50 of his/her closest friends) while he/she/they "smacktalk" me as I float in my pod.
I just got the 14-day trial, and I am working through the tutorial... seems interesting so far!
I think that Eve has carved out a nice little niche for itself. It has some sevre pacing issues, but the overall game is well designed. I tend to look at Eve fanbois as "militant trekkies" due to the fact that they seem to want to cram this game down everyone's throat. It grows while other MMO's shrink, but it's also made it's community perceive itself as more "hardcore" than other MMO players. This "harder core than thou" attitude could potentially kill the whole damn genre as a mainstream staple of the game industry. Just ask an old school flight sim jock or a historical, turn based wargamer how beneficial "hardcore" players were to their genre. Check the shelves at Best Buy, you can count on one hand the number of flight sims and traditional wargames that are on the shelves. The same thing could happen to MMOs if the community doesn't turn it down a notch.
I agree with the poster who said that many genre players don't understand Eve.
If you think about it, EQ1, EQ2, WOW, DAOC - all have the same kinds of rules. They may not be exactly the same, but I can ask anyone who plays these games what level they are and I will probably get an answer with a number in the sentence (e.g. level 5).
Ask that same question to an Eve player...
Likewise, ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player what class they are playing, and I will probably get an answer with a label in the sentence (e.g. Wizard).
Ask that same question to an Eve player....
Ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player how the banks work in the game and I will probably get one of the following answers A) Banks are distributed across the world and I can get my stuff from any bank or, Each bank is unique and I have to travel to get my stuff.
Ask that same question to an Eve player.....
Finally, ask an EQ1, EQ2, WOW or DAOC player how the economy works in the game. I will probably get a lengthy, informative answer.
Ask that same question to an Eve player?
My point of course, is that Eve is really nothing like these other games. Those other games are lots of fun. I played many of them. But to be honest, if I played one, I could almost say I played the other. One of the best examples of that is EQ1 and WOW. I played EQ1 for four years and then played WOW. I thought WOW was fantastic. Too bad it just felt like a more streamlined, modern, arcade-like version of EQ1.
If you log onto Eve for two weeks and think you understand the game, you are either a genius or a fool.
Militant Trekkies? What is a Trekkie?
Seriously though, the genres you mentioned killed themselves (or were killed by the devs of those games). There were barely any innovation in them and, so they got less and less players. Weirdly enough one of the most interesting games in turn based historical wargames was the WW1 version of Battle Isle, so originally an SF game, but aside from that there was barely anything new or interesting. Ofc, you can't reduce it to this one fact alone, yet its an important reason. With flightsims it was similar - the most innovate (from a gameplay perspective) was the alternate history game "Airpower", so not even a "true" flightsim. I agree with you in that some games were a bit "elitist" and not very accessible for new players of the genre, yet still that could not be seen as the only reason, why those two genres declined.
Comming back to EVE and to MMOs - eventhough some EVE "fanbois" here may put on an "elitist" attitude, there is still a lot of help to new players, more than in other games, which counts a lot. Its not about one growing, while others decline (which could just change in a month again). Its about how new players are treated in a game, and in that regard the EVE community is really helpful and not "elitist"/"hardcore" at all. While EVE is quite complex, I dont think that it is as hard as some people in these forums put it - even my gf understood it after a short time and is now in a pvp corp. EVE is actually easy, you just need to read the text (in the tutorial) and think a bit while playing - is that really so "hardcore"? Shouldn't more games have a higher "think factor", simply to keep them interesting and challenging?
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
See this is how eve works. You figured stroking asteroids for 3 months would be the most effective way to get money while i jumped into various t1 ships and blew people up for money. It took me only 2 months to get enough money for a raven. During those two months i didnt mine a single roid. After my shiney raven had arrived i moved into 0.0 space and joined an alliance. This led to me chaining spawns, doing high end complexes, killing people and generally having a great time while earning a small fortune in the process.
In the meantime, you were still stroking roids. What does that say about you?
If you dont use your brain in eve, either the boredom or other players will kill you. CCP wont hold your hand from start to end like other games. Face it, you arent made for eve, go try wow/eq2/<insert flavour of the month mmo>. Goodbye and good riddance.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
There is no best MMORPG, only favorites.
It seems to me that you guys think that anyone who doesn't like eve, is automatically some dumb guy who can't use his brain.
First of all, the game wasn't as hard as some of you make it out to be. I found the learning curve to not even be that bad.
The thing that I honestly did not like about eve is that it felt so..dull. Take out the starry backround and replace it with trees. What do you have? A very boring game with practically the same backround everywhere you go(sure there's a few differences but it's nothing major). I don't know about you guys but the environment i'm in has alot to do with how much I like the game. I like seeing lot's of variety in the environment, not just the same thing over and over.
There are some major good points about eve too though. Once of them being the skill system which I found to be one of the most in depth out there. The pvp was also exactly how I like it.(high risk) Riding around in a spaceship wasn't all that bad either. I just wish that I could see inside my ship and walk around in it instead of just seeing it from the outside.
Strike what I wrote earlier. Simple answer to your question. No, not one bit.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
You still seem to think I'm dumb and need my hand held. A Tale in the Desert doesn't have ANY tutorial, is infinitely more complex than EVE and I swept through that quickly and easily...no hand holding required.
Just because we don't like your silly blow-things-up game doesn't mean we're stupid and ignorant.
And thank goodness EVE is keeping people like you occupied blowing up stuff so we don't have to have you ruining the games we play. (Hey...if you can get personal so can I)
PS. And it didn't take me anywhere near 3 months to realize EVE wasn't for me. Why don't you answer the point I made about your game, instead of making a personal attack...oh yeah...you'd rather just blow my ship up...right...I think you did answer my point...you proved exactly the type of people that play EVE.
Yes, you are correct. Id rather blow your ship up and cause you grief. Next.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
If you don't like EVE, don't play it. A lot of us only heard of this game through these forums, and were only trying to help spread the word. Were not forcing anyone to play. Honestly, I really don't give a shit what you play. If you want to play WoW, have at it. We all might make fun of you, but try not to let that bother you too much. And for anyone who hasn't play EVE: I recommend the free trail. Its a pretty good game.
A** Still Raw From Your Last SWG Subscription? Come join us at RLMMO.com
You still seem to think I'm dumb and need my hand held. A Tale in the Desert doesn't have ANY tutorial, is infinitely more complex than EVE and I swept through that quickly and easily...no hand holding required.
Just because we don't like your silly blow-things-up game doesn't mean we're stupid and ignorant.
And thank goodness EVE is keeping people like you occupied blowing up stuff so we don't have to have you ruining the games we play. (Hey...if you can get personal so can I)
PS. And it didn't take me anywhere near 3 months to realize EVE wasn't for me. Why don't you answer the point I made about your game, instead of making a personal attack...oh yeah...you'd rather just blow my ship up...right...I think you did answer my point...you proved exactly the type of people that play EVE.
I played ATITD for awhile, very fun game but also very niche(couldn't get any of my friends into it). Now pirrg was a bit rude but he was right, EVE is entirely open and after the tutorial there is no set path that the game will direct you on. You use the tools you're given to find your own path in the game.
Just reminded me how much I miss ATITD, when does T3 start damnit!
----------------------------------
MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
EVE online is incredibly over rated. Bland combat mixed with bland world mixed with bland players = EVE Online. There should be a warning when before you download this game , possibly something along the lines of "This game is tasteless and incredibly boring , only the ut most boring kinds of human beings should attempt to play"
EvE makes me go to sleep. Earth&Beyond was way better it was much more newbie friendly and you could actually get out of your ship!!!!!!!exclamation mark!!!111ONE1!! Also you were able to go down to planets and the planets were larger then your ship. It was a cool game until they shut it down.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."