If we follow your logic, MMOs (and any online game for that matter) wouldn't exist without PCs. No console was able to support that type of games when the first ones appeared. I guess you see the flaw in your argument.
Fact is, hardware on computers is superior, and has always been. Fact is, PC games offer more stuff than console ones and have always done. You can especulate as much as you fancy with your "what if"'s, but the facts are the facts.
No, his point about consoles saving video games is 100% true, at least in so far as it pertains to the large market and not things like solitare. Back in the 80'S the market was suffering largely and most investors were about 3 seconds from packing up and leaving it entirely. While plenty of people wanted to play games, they tended to be very young and had parents who simply did not want to spend the high price for entry. It was Nintendo's foray into that market, with the NES, that brought investor attention back into it in a meaningful way. It's success broke open the possibilities of the gaming market and with it came a great deal of interest.
Now at this same time the PC world was coming into its own sort of milestone. Computers were still FAR from being in even a quarter of american homes. But interest was growing, and advances in technology were bringing them to a point where they could do more and cost less. They also started taking up less space, which is a pretty important thing. Video games already existed, at this time, for computers. They were often educational things, or very small time things. Large scale, serious gaming, came later and its entirely because Nintendo proved to investors that money was there to be made. Without that interest we'd be left with a very indie development field. While we all enjoy a minecraft or FTL I think we also all realize that for every one Octodad there are moutains of crap you have to wade through to get to them.
PC gaming is just a headache. You need to invest over grand every 5 years to stay ahead of the curve and ensure you can play every available game. Then you need to learn plenty of tech stuff to keep it running optimally over that time. Or you can buy a console for 350$ (1st gen, new release) and enjoy the same 5 years without worrying about a single thing. Your example of how PC gaming offers more, in terms of mods and content, will be rendered moot soon enough when Valve enters the market through Steambox. If anyone understands how to give stuff to gamers, its Valve.
Putting hardware and PC vs Console arguments aside, one of the big factors limiting MMOs on consoles is the strict control Microsoft and, to a lesser extent, Sony exert on what they allow on their systems. Its the reason why Dust 514 won't be available for XBox 360.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
There's a couple hurdles to overcome with console though. The tech lags behind pc for one. And then I prefer mouse and keyboard to controller.
If they could resolve those issues, sure, I'd love to be playing an mmo on my 60 inch 3d tv.
HDMI cable and a GPU with a hdmi slot, which is most new fairly high end GPU's. You can mirror the PC onto a TV screen quite easily.
I've actually been meaning to do that. I work the next couple of days, but I think after that I'll give it a go. I know my ati hd 5850 has an hdmi slot.
Originally posted by Ginaz Putting hardware and PC vs Console arguments aside, one of the big factors limiting MMOs on consoles is the strict control Microsoft and, to a lesser extent, Sony exert on what they allow on their systems. Its the reason why Dust 514 won't be available for XBox 360.
Guess its time to get with the program! Why mmos wont be what some of us want them to be on a PC. Technology is killing them off! Glad I own a PS3! Dust514 is alot of FUN!
Defiance, new mmo, is about to launch simeltaneously on PC, PS3 and Xbox, By Trion Worlds. Sony and microsoft are backing it. This stuff ain't going away any time soon.
Originally posted by Ginaz Putting hardware and PC vs Console arguments aside, one of the big factors limiting MMOs on consoles is the strict control Microsoft and, to a lesser extent, Sony exert on what they allow on their systems. Its the reason why Dust 514 won't be available for XBox 360.
That's an intersting point. I hadn't actually thought about that. I had just assumed that Dust 514 was a Playstation exclusive because they paid to have it that way. Microsoft and Sony do that kind of crap all of the time; just look at the Skyrim situation. Not quite an exclusive, but still, kind of a petty thing to do. I wouldn't buy for the Xbox despite them.
Originally posted by evemaster00 Defiance, new mmo, is about to launch simeltaneously on PC, PS3 and Xbox, By Trion Worlds. Sony and microsoft are backing it. This stuff ain't going away any time soon.
About to launch? I hadn't heard it was that soon. Any sort of timeframe on when?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
You're not alone. I don't always want to be in front of my monitor when playing games. I actually prefer the bigger screen while I'm on the couch. AT first I tried using wireless keyboard and mouse, but it's still not enough. I wanted a gamepad.
DCUO has native gamepad support, thankfully. I enjoyed it for a brief time and found playing MMO very possible, with the only limitation being difficult to chat with. Thankfully I have my wireless keyboard.
Using XPadder, you can map your keyboard towards your gamepad. As long as it makes sense in the design of a game, it will work wonders. I already have Mass Effect and Guild Wars 2 on this setup. Together with Steam's Big Picture mode I don't feel the need to buy a console anymore. That is until "The Last of Us" and "Beyond: Two Souls" come out. :P
In itself there is no reason for a mmorpg to not be "console friendly", if the player wants to loose the ability to talk without special chatting appliances (menus leading you to say, "hi","hello","g-day" to choose from), or just with a mic.
Where it kinda gets problematic is the perception of the industry, as was already mentioned, that a console game has to be short and simple.
Moreover you will encounter very much negativity from the crowd that holds the belief that "complexity" and "depth" can only be created by having many hotkey bars with special skills that you have to execute in a special order and at a special time just to kill a lv1 rat.
Originally posted by evemaster00 Defiance, new mmo, is about to launch simeltaneously on PC, PS3 and Xbox, By Trion Worlds. Sony and microsoft are backing it. This stuff ain't going away any time soon.
About to launch? I hadn't heard it was that soon. Any sort of timeframe on when?
Early April. It's pretty much certain at this point. 12 weeks to go. First beta event in 14 days. Goto http://vonbachindustries.com/en/
In itself there is no reason for a mmorpg to not be "console friendly", if the player wants to loose the ability to talk without special chatting appliances (menus leading you to say, "hi","hello","g-day" to choose from), or just with a mic.
Where it kinda gets problematic is the perception of the industry, as was already mentioned, that a console game has to be short and simple.
Moreover you will encounter very much negativity from the crowd that holds the belief that "complexity" and "depth" can only be created by having many hotkey bars with special skills that you have to execute in a special order and at a special time just to kill a lv1 rat.
Yup, Mr. Gordiflu is typical of the elitist PC gamer.
Newsflash Gordie! Not everyone is interested in spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars every year to upgrade their PC just to play a freakin' game!!
Combine that with all the compatability issues related to different hardware and then ask yourself what is really holding PC gaming back?
Why, people like you of course! Because you will upgrade your hardware for the next shiny new MMO that comes out and quickly drop the one you are playing now, because "the graphics suck" Or you will complain that the game is filled with bugs, because of course it has to be, since it is state of the art and has to be compatible with multitudes of different hardware configurations. And then you will complain that the pop is low, because hey, no one can run the game without a high end comp and you have just trashed it in the forums, saying that it is crap because of the bugs and the low pop.
That is what is holding PC gaming back!
What I would actually like to see is an MMO that could be played online with console and PC gamers. Because really, a console is still a PC Mr. Gordiflu. Bringing everyone together instead of splitting us apart makes more sense to me.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
You want one? This april you've got one. Defiance, pixel perfect shooter MMO on PC, PS3 and Xbox.
Trion spent over 80 million dollars on it, which is a lot more than they spent on Rift, and considering Rift has had great success, things are looking up.
just w8 till pc players get their hands on aimbots and cheats, the console players cry will be heared milles away.
I would like to point to the .hack series. While it was a singl eplayer game i believe with the right support that game could be awesome. While i don't even want 100k people wanting to data drain just the background game was fun. and it seemed easy enough to have dlc or expansions done quickly. so overall the perfect console mmo.
You want one? This april you've got one. Defiance, pixel perfect shooter MMO on PC, PS3 and Xbox.
Trion spent over 80 million dollars on it, which is a lot more than they spent on Rift, and considering Rift has had great success, things are looking up.
just w8 till pc players get their hands on aimbots and cheats, the console players cry will be heared milles away.
Thats ok, I would never consider playing a PvP MMO shooter anyway. A genre destined to die thanks to the reasons you just mentioned.
And by the way, why would PC players not be crying also??? Because they would all be using aimbots and cheats??
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
You want one? This april you've got one. Defiance, pixel perfect shooter MMO on PC, PS3 and Xbox.
Trion spent over 80 million dollars on it, which is a lot more than they spent on Rift, and considering Rift has had great success, things are looking up.
just w8 till pc players get their hands on aimbots and cheats, the console players cry will be heared milles away.
Thats ok, I would never consider playing a PvP MMO shooter anyway. A genre destined to die thanks to the reasons you just mentioned.
And by the way, why would PC players not be crying also??? Because they would all be using aimbots and cheats??
I plan to be a Master crafter with my ps3 controller! Can lay in bed drinking a latte with nice comfy pillows next to my wfe! Let the shooting be for more uhh active,heartened players :-D While watching old Walking Dead episodes with the other flatscreen!! PC desktops/laptops are just ohh sooo out of mainstream.. Hopefully one of these mmorpgs makes it to my Android! :-D
PC gaming is just a headache. You need to invest over grand every 5 years to stay ahead of the curve and ensure you can play every available game. Then you need to learn plenty of tech stuff to keep it running optimally over that time. Or you can buy a console for 350$ (1st gen, new release) and enjoy the same games for 5 years...
Originally posted by evemaster00 Defiance, new mmo, is about to launch simeltaneously on PC, PS3 and Xbox, By Trion Worlds. Sony and microsoft are backing it. This stuff ain't going away any time soon.
About to launch? I hadn't heard it was that soon. Any sort of timeframe on when?
Early April. It's pretty much certain at this point. 12 weeks to go. First beta event in 14 days. Goto http://vonbachindustries.com/en/
Excellent. Thanks!
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I think most people deny the potential in a Console MMO because they know if a company makes a decent attempt it could open a flood gate to other devs going that route. This whole idea that "console gaming is why pc games are easy now" is a joke.
Easier and dumber. Specially dumber.
Name me one single console game with the depth and complexity of old PC games like VGA-Planets, Mechcommander or Civilization.
For depth in story: Killer 7. Depth in mechanics: Final Fantasy Tactics (Original for Playstation 1) and Street Fighter.
However, more depth doesn't automatically mean that the game is better. Just like with art forms, the experience in itself can just be very enjoyable and there have been a lot of titles throughout the years that have been enjoyable experiences: Metal Gear series, Final Fantasy series, Zelda series, Metroid series, Mario series, ICO, Shin Megami Tensei series, Chrono series, Ninja Gaiden series, Street Fighter series, Resident Evil series, Castlevania series, Megaman series, Dragon Quest series, Silent Hill series, Virtua Fighter series, Devil May Cry series, Okami, etc.
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Edit: if there is anything that annoys me, it is snobbism.
Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter.
MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware.
I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.
As powerful as PCs are mmo developers don't ever use their max potential. Go figure and here you talk about how consoles hold back technology. Just saying...
No, you are not the only one. There is NO mmorpg out there or up and coming that inspires me to plunk down cash for new computer. However, I still have an mmorpg itch and a perfectly good PS3, so FFXIV gets the nod.
Comments
No, his point about consoles saving video games is 100% true, at least in so far as it pertains to the large market and not things like solitare. Back in the 80'S the market was suffering largely and most investors were about 3 seconds from packing up and leaving it entirely. While plenty of people wanted to play games, they tended to be very young and had parents who simply did not want to spend the high price for entry. It was Nintendo's foray into that market, with the NES, that brought investor attention back into it in a meaningful way. It's success broke open the possibilities of the gaming market and with it came a great deal of interest.
Now at this same time the PC world was coming into its own sort of milestone. Computers were still FAR from being in even a quarter of american homes. But interest was growing, and advances in technology were bringing them to a point where they could do more and cost less. They also started taking up less space, which is a pretty important thing. Video games already existed, at this time, for computers. They were often educational things, or very small time things. Large scale, serious gaming, came later and its entirely because Nintendo proved to investors that money was there to be made. Without that interest we'd be left with a very indie development field. While we all enjoy a minecraft or FTL I think we also all realize that for every one Octodad there are moutains of crap you have to wade through to get to them.
PC gaming is just a headache. You need to invest over grand every 5 years to stay ahead of the curve and ensure you can play every available game. Then you need to learn plenty of tech stuff to keep it running optimally over that time. Or you can buy a console for 350$ (1st gen, new release) and enjoy the same 5 years without worrying about a single thing. Your example of how PC gaming offers more, in terms of mods and content, will be rendered moot soon enough when Valve enters the market through Steambox. If anyone understands how to give stuff to gamers, its Valve.
There's a couple hurdles to overcome with console though. The tech lags behind pc for one. And then I prefer mouse and keyboard to controller.
If they could resolve those issues, sure, I'd love to be playing an mmo on my 60 inch 3d tv.
HDMI cable and a GPU with a hdmi slot, which is most new fairly high end GPU's. You can mirror the PC onto a TV screen quite easily.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I've actually been meaning to do that. I work the next couple of days, but I think after that I'll give it a go. I know my ati hd 5850 has an hdmi slot.
Besides, we all know what Microsoft is really up to http://www.extremetech.com/computing/115003-microsoft-quietly-kills-off-the-desktop-pc !!! Dont we!!!
Lets see, dumbed down MMO's, more console controlled games.... I say, give it 5 years :-D Hewlett Packard is no longer producing desktops http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/18/hewlett-packard-to-computers-drop-dead/
Guess its time to get with the program! Why mmos wont be what some of us want them to be on a PC. Technology is killing them off! Glad I own a PS3! Dust514 is alot of FUN!
That's an intersting point. I hadn't actually thought about that. I had just assumed that Dust 514 was a Playstation exclusive because they paid to have it that way. Microsoft and Sony do that kind of crap all of the time; just look at the Skyrim situation. Not quite an exclusive, but still, kind of a petty thing to do. I wouldn't buy for the Xbox despite them.
About to launch? I hadn't heard it was that soon. Any sort of timeframe on when?
You're not alone. I don't always want to be in front of my monitor when playing games. I actually prefer the bigger screen while I'm on the couch. AT first I tried using wireless keyboard and mouse, but it's still not enough. I wanted a gamepad.
DCUO has native gamepad support, thankfully. I enjoyed it for a brief time and found playing MMO very possible, with the only limitation being difficult to chat with. Thankfully I have my wireless keyboard.
Using XPadder, you can map your keyboard towards your gamepad. As long as it makes sense in the design of a game, it will work wonders. I already have Mass Effect and Guild Wars 2 on this setup. Together with Steam's Big Picture mode I don't feel the need to buy a console anymore. That is until "The Last of Us" and "Beyond: Two Souls" come out. :P
In itself there is no reason for a mmorpg to not be "console friendly", if the player wants to loose the ability to talk without special chatting appliances (menus leading you to say, "hi","hello","g-day" to choose from), or just with a mic.
Where it kinda gets problematic is the perception of the industry, as was already mentioned, that a console game has to be short and simple.
Moreover you will encounter very much negativity from the crowd that holds the belief that "complexity" and "depth" can only be created by having many hotkey bars with special skills that you have to execute in a special order and at a special time just to kill a lv1 rat.
Flame on!
Early April. It's pretty much certain at this point. 12 weeks to go. First beta event in 14 days. Goto http://vonbachindustries.com/en/
Haha. This forum needs an up vote.
Yup, Mr. Gordiflu is typical of the elitist PC gamer.
Newsflash Gordie! Not everyone is interested in spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars every year to upgrade their PC just to play a freakin' game!!
Combine that with all the compatability issues related to different hardware and then ask yourself what is really holding PC gaming back?
Why, people like you of course! Because you will upgrade your hardware for the next shiny new MMO that comes out and quickly drop the one you are playing now, because "the graphics suck" Or you will complain that the game is filled with bugs, because of course it has to be, since it is state of the art and has to be compatible with multitudes of different hardware configurations. And then you will complain that the pop is low, because hey, no one can run the game without a high end comp and you have just trashed it in the forums, saying that it is crap because of the bugs and the low pop.
That is what is holding PC gaming back!
What I would actually like to see is an MMO that could be played online with console and PC gamers. Because really, a console is still a PC Mr. Gordiflu. Bringing everyone together instead of splitting us apart makes more sense to me.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
just w8 till pc players get their hands on aimbots and cheats, the console players cry will be heared milles away.
Thats ok, I would never consider playing a PvP MMO shooter anyway. A genre destined to die thanks to the reasons you just mentioned.
And by the way, why would PC players not be crying also??? Because they would all be using aimbots and cheats??
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I plan to be a Master crafter with my ps3 controller! Can lay in bed drinking a latte with nice comfy pillows next to my wfe! Let the shooting be for more uhh active,heartened players :-D While watching old Walking Dead episodes with the other flatscreen!! PC desktops/laptops are just ohh sooo out of mainstream.. Hopefully one of these mmorpgs makes it to my Android! :-D
Fixed that for you.
Excellent. Thanks!
For depth in story: Killer 7. Depth in mechanics: Final Fantasy Tactics (Original for Playstation 1) and Street Fighter.
However, more depth doesn't automatically mean that the game is better. Just like with art forms, the experience in itself can just be very enjoyable and there have been a lot of titles throughout the years that have been enjoyable experiences: Metal Gear series, Final Fantasy series, Zelda series, Metroid series, Mario series, ICO, Shin Megami Tensei series, Chrono series, Ninja Gaiden series, Street Fighter series, Resident Evil series, Castlevania series, Megaman series, Dragon Quest series, Silent Hill series, Virtua Fighter series, Devil May Cry series, Okami, etc.
----
Edit: if there is anything that annoys me, it is snobbism.
As powerful as PCs are mmo developers don't ever use their max potential. Go figure and here you talk about how consoles hold back technology. Just saying...
a yo ho ho