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What makes Pathfinder Online Different
Dakcenturi
Member Posts: 29
One of the PFO community members wrote this up and thought it would be worth posting here to give people some more insight into PFO.
Pathfinder Online is a fantasy sandbox MMO by Goblinworks based on the Pathfinder tabletop game. It uses a unique process called "Crowdforging" to determine what features are implemented in the game, in what order.
Here is a brief list of some of the highlights of this game:
1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse. You don't train any faster by farming mobs or spamming your abilities than you do exploring the world, role playing with your friends, or even being offline. You will need to complete certain achievements to complete a skill and open up new avenues of training, but time-based training means you always get full value from your purchased game time whether you're casual or 'hardcore', an adventurer or crafter, or one who enjoys a lot of roleplaying chat or one who spends much of their time in combat.
2. No Classes- Unlike other games that give you a narrow range of abilities as you train your class, in Pathfinder you gain levels in different Roles based off what you have trained.
3. Player Structures- Build your own homes, taverns, farms, and even cities! The Pathfinder Online world will be filled with places players can use to build and customize their own homes, businesses and communities.
4. Freedom of Allegiance- Unlike games that give you a few factions to pick from like Alliance vs. Horde, in Pathfinder Online you can join a vast array of organizations run by players, create your own organization, or even be a lone wolf! Fight for your friends, your ideals, power, profits, or personal freedom. The choice is yours. The alliances, the betrayals, crushing defeats and glorious victories are all real, meaningful, and player-driven.
5. More Than A Gankfest- Unlike other Open World PVP MMO's currently on the market, Pathfinder Online actively discourages meaningless PVP. A meaningful alignment system that actually offers mechanical advantages to lawful and good aligned organizations, and a functional bounty system that allows the player to choose which players and organizations can collect the bounties they set discourages random and meaningless killing. Beyond this, the admins are taking a hard stance against 'griefing', in which players specifically seek to ruin the experience of other players, often through using game mechanics in ways that weren't intended. Griefing in PFO can be a bannable offence.
6. Real Battles- Large scale combat won't be the total chaos most MMO players are used to. PFO will make use of a formation system that gives groups significant bonuses for fighting in formation and coordinating their ability usage.
7. Less Tedious Crafting- Crafting won't be done by sitting and watching your character create the same recipe over and over. First you build the structure you need for the kind of crafting you want to do, like a sawmill, bakery, or smithy. Then you fill out work orders that your NPC subordinates execute for you. Meanwhile, you can go do other things, or later in the game's development there may be activities you can do to help the process along. PFO will also launch with both traditional resource harvesting and camp-based harvesting.
8. More Meaningful PVE- NPCs aren't all just sitting there in groups which never move, never change in size, and respawn every few minutes. There will be random NPC infestations that escalate in severity if not dealt with. For instance, a goblin camp left undealt with may turn into a goblin tribe that begins attacking your harvesting camps. Leave dragons, vampires, or giants alone long enough and they may attack your town. This creates a need to work together to deal with these threats and generates demand for players who train abilities specialized for hunting NPC types like vampire hunters and dragon slayers.
9. All Players are Useful- This won't be like games where a new player has 49 health and a veteran has 49,000. The attacks from that new player won't automatically miss the veteran. A new player will be weaker, but still able to make a meaningful contribution to combat. As a sandbox where group sizes aren't limited, this means all players are useful, and don't have to segregate themselves by level.
10. Trade is Meaningful- In Pathfinder Online players must manually transport items to their intended destination. Most shops are player-run, and there will be goods more abundant in or even exclusive to certain regions. Merchants, traders, and even auctioneers are all viable professions.
Comments
Looks like the fantasy sandbox many have been asking for.
I hope it hits it's funding mark...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Here is some info on knowen staff:
Ryan Scott Dancey (Chief Executive Officer)
He’s been called “the Steve Jobs of MMO Marketing.” While Chief Marketing Officer of CCP from 2007 to 2010, he increased paid subscribers to CCP’s flagship sci-fi MMO EVE Online by 50%—an unequaled achievement for a 5+ year old MMO.
Ryan knew from an early age that he wanted to be an entrepreneur. He’s been involved in business since his early teens, and has been involved with companies of all sizes and complexities, from working with a single partner to leading a brand and business team for a Fortune 500 company. Ryan has served as a software developer, a salesperson, and a marketer. He was a brand manager and Vice President of Wizards of the Coast, and the Chief Operating Officer of a Las Vegas-based entertainment company.
He won the Silver Anvil award of the Public Relations Society of America for his marketing campaign for the 3rd Edition of Dungeons & Dragons. He has won several Origins Awards for excellence in game design and publication. He was given a special ENnie award in recognition of his contributions to the field of tabletop roleplaying games. His published game design credits include the Legend of the Five Rings collectible card game and several products for Dungeons & Dragons, and he led the teams responsible for the development and publishing of five other collectible card games.
The MMO field combines all three of his great passions—creating companies, exploring computer systems engineering, and adventure gaming—all at the same time.
Mark Kalmes (Chief Technical Officer)
Mark has worked for 15 years on the most technically demanding projects he could find. He has worked on fluid dynamics, expert medical systems, document management systems, integrated development environments, mobile devices, and of course video games.
In 2002, Mark joined Cryptic Studios and helped launch the successful City of Heroes superhero MMO. City of Heroes was launched with minimal investment, with only 21 people in the company. It quickly gathered a large audience and became highly profitable. Mark became a lead programmer on City of Villains and was named as the software director for the successor project, Champions Online. While at Cryptic, Mark created several successful mission systems and architected the Cryptic DB distributed database system.
In 2007, Mark left Cryptic to start World of Darkness, a new project building on the successful vampire property. He staffed the North American office of CCP with new programming hires and produced the first playable internal test version of the game. While at CCP, he worked closely with the core technology group in Iceland to create a common technology platform for both World of Darkness and EVE Online. Since exiting CCP in 2009, he has pursued his self-directed research in robotics and developed a consumer-focused shopping site, flitterati.com, for people who love books.
Lee Hammock (Lead Game Designer) [Pulled this from his linked in profile]
I directed the overall direction of story, game mechanics, and world creation for the Fallen Earth massively multiplayer online role playing game. In doing so I oversee a team of 17 writers, editors, and programmers. Also I created most of the world elements for Fallen Earth, such as the setting history and major story lines.
Led a team of designers and artists in creating zones for Elder Scrolls Online.
Stephen Cheney (Game Designer) [Again from Linked In]
I manage the Icarus Content team of game designers, with duties including:
• Management of writers and scripters
• Editing, Formatting, and Layout of documentation
• Writing dialogue and plot for games
• Designing game systems
• Maintaining company wiki and Web site
• Implementing components in the game databases
Shipped Titles:
• Fallen Earth (PC)
• Fallen Earth: Blood Sports (PC)
• Dexter: the Game (iPhone)
Lisa Stevens (Chief Operating Officer)
When Mark Rein•Hagen and Jonathan Tweet asked her if she was interested in helping out with a new company they were forming called Lion Rampant, she jumped at the chance to turn her lifelong love of gaming into a career and became the company’s editor. Since then, she has been involved in all facets of game production, starting with design and editing credits for the critically acclaimed Ars Magica and Vampire: The Masquerade roleplaying games. Lisa has been an art director, graphic designer, typesetter, licensing manager, and a marketing and sales director. She was also instrumental in the merger between Lion Rampant and White Wolf in 1990.
In 1991, she left White Wolf to help Peter Adkison start Wizards of the Coast. Her first job encompassed sales, marketing, and production. When Magic: The Gathering spurred the rapid growth of the company, Lisa settled into managing new business and licensing. In 1996, Lisa became the vice president of event marketing and helped launch the Magic: The Gathering Pro Tour. Later that year, she helped launch the Wizards of the Coast Game Center in Seattle. In 1997, she joined the TSR brand team as the brand manager for the Greyhawk campaign setting and the RPGA, the organized play program for Dungeons & Dragons. In 1998, Lisa went to the new strategic planning department, where she lent her immense industry knowledge to the TSR and miniatures divisions, including the launch of the 3rd edition of Dungeons & Dragons. In her final position at Wizards, she was the brand manager for Star Wars and launched the d20 version of the Star Wars RPG, in addition to acquiring the Official Star Wars Fan Club and serving as the club’s president for three years.
In July 2002, she formed Paizo Publishing, LLC. As CEO, she led the group that published Dragon and Dungeon, the official D&D magazines, and also published Star Wars Insider, Undefeated and Amazing Stories. In 2004, she launched paizo.com, a gaming website which sells nearly 25,000 different gaming products, in addition to having an active messageboard community. In August 2007, Paizo launched the Pathfinder Adventure Path and, since then, the Pathfinder brand has become the hottest in the adventure gaming industry, spinning off Pathfinder Modules, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Player Companions, Pathfinder Tales fiction, and the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. In 2009, the Pathfinder RPG jumped out of the gates with record sales and has since eclipsed Dungeons & Dragons as the top selling RPG.
Lisa received her MBA from the University of Washington. She has won numerous awards, including Origins Awards for the design of Ars Magica and Vampire: The Masquerade, as the Assistant Editor of White Wolf Magazine, and for the graphic design of Magic: The Gathering. In addition, she was honored by Advertising Age in 1995 as one of the Top 100 Marketers of the Year for her work on Magic: The Gathering.
I think it will be a good change of pace to step off the levelling treadmill to max cap and actually play a game again.
You might be right, but then so might I. Multiclassing, no level cap, formation tactics, meaningful PvP with suppression mechanics for griefing that actually sound reasonable.
And they have some excellent writers working on their superdungeon, including Ed Greenwood (Forgotten Realms) and Mike Stackpole (Mechwarrior).
Naw, I'm not buying that you cannot evolve your game beyond those tired levelling mechanics for the sake of so-called 'end game'.
To dream, perhaps to be.
From what I have seen they have a DreamTeam of RPG developers. Some of the names involved have decades (plural) of developing tabletop PnP products, sci-fi and fantasy novels (Ed Greenwood?, Michael Stackpole!), and online MMOs (EvE, TESO, CoH, etc..)
Paizo is also an established name in the RPG industry... so these guys have a major leg up on the typical "indie" startup.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Good Lord Dakcenturi! Your avatar needs some sleep! Drugs are bad mkay :P
Sounds like a great sandbox game.
Sad that with all the outcry for more and better Sand box games theres only 5000 backers. Guess many of the verbal Sandbox crowd would rather sit around complaining about a lack of sad box games then actaully back one. I'm sure that will send aloud message to the big developers of how much desire there actaually is for more Sandbox games.
II'm sure many will have there excuses. iie "its a kickstarter game I don't trust those, only big name well known developers that are funded by suite can pull off a good sandbox" or "i don't like the eve like exp model as i can't grind to max level in 1 month" Good luck to those in ever getting a decent Sandbox if they won't support Sandbox developers efforts.
Lots of people hear something they don't like and don't bother to look into what the Devs have said about what they intend to do. Guess its a good thing there are plenty of theme park MMO's out for those people to play.
I suppose you can look at it negatively like that if that is how your personality works for you. For myself it will be refreshing to shift the focus of my play from the hamster wheel of levelling to actual play and interaction with my fellows.
To dream, perhaps to be.
Again, one of the things that I feel makes this game different is the people behind it. Other "indie" sandbox games were attempted by people with little or no industry experience. This team has members that have worked on multiple released MMOs before. They also have a bench full of PnP RPG veteran designers.
That is a big difference from some startup with 3 guys coding their first game...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is very true. Normally I'd shy from coughing up before 6 months after an mmorpg. But that applies to the themepark and low-budget sandbox mmorpgs equally we've seen recently.
Ryan Dancey explains an interesting plan of attack for Pathfinder Online: A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step
@adam_nox & N00bit: For more on Skill-Training: Your Pathfinder Online Character - It's comprised of 4 main features: Skill-Training Time = {Attributes, Skills, Merit Badges, Abilities}
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Not a bad list above. Here's one I summarised @ a glance:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
This all sounded amazing and then I read open world pvp...
Why an mmo company thinks creating an environment with a gankfest will be successful amazes me.
And before everyone starts blathering about...Oh there's a system in place to deal with that...What stops the 13 year old who is maxed out on whatever from getting bored and ganking people just for shits? Are they permanently banned from the game on the first offense? If not they can repeat it next time they get bored.
pvp is fantastic, it's why i play planetside 2. pvp in an mmo is stupid beyond belief when open world without horridly strict rules.
If they offer a non pvp server I'll play this game, if not, I'll watch it last a few months before going free to play with all the other dumbass games that did this same mistake.
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.The Iron Code"
I'm sure plenty of people will be happier to sit and watch: Because the market for mmorpgs has responded to that very successfully with Themepark mmorpgs for so long and there are many to choose from = good for those players. Players wanting something with more player interaction may wonder why pvp needs to fit added. This blog discusses some of these things in more detail:
To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms
That's the challenge of the design - to find a solution, not side-step this challenge. It's a big ask, but imo it's the right problem to go after in mmorpgs, Age Of Wushu attempts to provide players with more freedom of this kind for eg.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
I explained the purchase model of Pathfinder Online previously:
To add, there is a purchase price as well.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
So... you love PvP, but don't want PvP? Yet you're protesting that it will be a gankfest... and don't want to hear about any system to suppress meaningless ganking. Then are you protesting the banning of a 13-year old ganker or asking for such a banning? And you like PvP in Planetside2 but want 'horridly strict' PvP rules... while not wanting to hear about PvP rules (the anti-grief systems they intend.
It sounds like you might be conflicted, Green.
If you have some good ideas on preventing whatever it is you dislike you should recommend your solution.
To dream, perhaps to be.
Even though it is open-PvP I believe they are doing a really good job controlling ganking and trying to support meaningful PvP will punishing meaningless PvP.
They've noted they will have harsh OOG punishments for repeat offenders (ie bans etc) In game there are a lot of player organizations (three of the largest ones) that plan to make as much of the game safe from meaningless PvP as possible. Also, there are in-game systems like the bounty system, flagging murders as criminals etc that will reduce the ganking issue.
Additionally, they've made it clear that players won't have such a huge level gap between veteran and new players so you aren't going to see vet players walking around one shoting new players. Finally, they've made it very clear that those people who murder a bunch and drift into CE alignment are going to have a harder time getting their training and access to the best services which is going to make it a disincentive for ganking.
Sadly it isn't going to make the funding cap.
They asked for too much. That was ALWAYS clear.
An unknown studio making an MMO isn't a good bet, and people will act accordingly. They SHOULD have asked for HALF of what they're asking for currently, and added stretch goals to entice more into paying. As it stands, they're going to lose $600,000+ because they got a little ahead of themselves.
There's nothing saying they can't try again, however.
As you say there's more than one way to skin a cat, but I estimate a range around $250,000 for last few days is very realistic. So between now +2 days if they scrape another 100k - I'll say it's "likely", if under, it becomes more tricky... it's a lot of cash, but it's still within range looking at other ks campaign trends for rough comparison and whatever else GW has in hand to play.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
The main reason they asked for what they did is they didn't think it would be meaningful to ask for less and quntify how it effects the project.
With the $1Mill target they can meaningfully say they will advance the timeline. From Ryan Dancey:
Without the Kickstarter, our plan is to begin Early Enrollment in early 2015, and Release in early 2017.
With the Kickstarter at $1 million, we plan to begin Early Enrollment in the summer of 2014, and Release in early 2016.
I pledged a dispensable amount of money (enough to get some tangible rewards as well). Hopefully they can successfully finish the funding phase. Concerning the game/game mechanics I'll give them the benefit of the doubt (especially in regard of PvP and "policing" by GMs). It may work. It may not work. Who can tell? How the announced features will be implemented in the end remains to be seen. But anything that doesn't "railroad" the player through the content is a good thing.
Pathfinder Online won't get 10+ million subscribers and the devs shouldn't concern themselves about reaching such numbers. The worst would be to hype the game beyond measures to only demonise it shortly after release.
I think it will be awhile to get to 200,00 players, especially if thy intend to regulate the influx as they have said.
And Dude, Dak: You really need to get some sleep or use some eye drops your avatar is weeping blood.
To dream, perhaps to be.