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Most freemium games are pay to win
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
If any freemium game has items that are locked due to rarity, that you have to PAY for...that is pay to win.
That is no different AT ALL, to a free to play that has items you have to pay to get. No matter how you look at it, its exactly the same.
"everyone" hates on free to plays being pay to win (Allods was a big one to hate on)...what is different about freemiums? Why don't they get hated on for being pay to wins?
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Comments
Freemium just means Pay 2 play with a cash shop. There is no pay to win in Freemium games such as LotRO or EQ2 or STO. Paying $15 on month to unlock most of the game is NOT pay 2 win. Spending $100s of dollars a month on power ups in allods IS pay 2 win though especially using those 15 minute boost potions in PvP.
Cause Games like LOTRO and DDO are freeium and not f2p there is nothing in the shop that cant be acquired in-game. Aside from cosmetic items.
The content I dont count as pay to win.
Personaly More games should take that approach. Unlock the content you want or feel you need as you go.
The other items that are locked dont make or break the game. Points can be earned in-game with no real cash investment. It's not easy but it can be done. Bags and Gold caps once unlocked are done so for the whole account not just that toon (nothing like ToR or some other mmos)
I agree with Allods being f2p p2w. It is very much so p2w and it's not alone in that market. I do think Allods is a good game but I dont play it saddly can't afford to dump cash into it.
i agree with this to some degree. If your game is freemium and the free players are locked out of epic gear and rare items unless you pay for them while subscribers get them right away then yes its pay to win. You are paying $15 a month to get those epic and rares so you win. If the game was not good enough to be subscription only then free players should not be limited to progression content to force them to pay. Limit whatever you want for free players as long as it doesnt block any progression (character or story). In that case subbers are the ones paying to win and everyone else is screwed. My opinion, and the reason why i dont pay cash shop if i have progression limited as a free player. My wallet goes only to devs that care about their players and make money the clean way.
except it doesn't matter if they use "freemium" or "free to play" in regards to pay to win
Definition of P2W:
Ability to purchase anything either: not available from other means, that can provide an advantage in any avenue of the game, or circumvents too much of current content.
While LOTRO and DDO allow you to earn points through grinding hardcore and buying everything...I did say "most" freemium, not all.
however, DDO released +10 stat tomes you can buy in the cash shop...the rarest item in the game. While you can earn it in game, it is...well...the rarest. That provides a huge advantage, and changes entire builds.
LOTRO has avoided anything like that as far as I know.
However...Everquest 2...Vanguard...hmm...what other games...SWTOR...those three freemiums are truly pay to win. You can't buy the items (yellow con and better for VG, similar system in EQ2 and SWTOR) through any other means unless paying for them...this provides an advantage in the game to payers.
Just because they use the term "Freemium", doesn't excuse them for being pay to win.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
if i cant get to your location or wear your same quality gear because im locked on content for being a freebie then yes i am forced to pay to get better and farther to be competitive against you. Thats pay to win in my book.
which is no different than a free to play game, offering items to buy
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
there is a difference actually. If the items you buy in a f2p or freemium hybrid game are fluff, convenience bag slots, etc and boosts that is fine. As long as you dont lock progression content behind a credit card input box then everything is ok. Like i said in my above post, if i have to pay to reach your tier of progression then i wont support that, rendering the game pay to win for the subbers.
Yeah, there really is:
I agree with your DDO example and VG does offer bought gear (though average grade, not top end) but I don't think items being "locked out" unless subbing is P2W. I think where P2W came from and why it was a big deal is because there wasn't a sub option to have it all unlocked and that type of "blank check" system was dangerous. If a freemium game provides a sub option to unlock everything it's not F2P IMO. Paying to access the items you still need to earn is something you should do if not having them is that big of a deal.
Take it a step further and WoW is pay to win. Since all content requiring level 21 or better is unreachable.
I could care less about pay to win.
These companies spend MILLIONS of $$ to create these games, and have to keep paying to maintain them, and if *your freeloading ass is too cheap to give them a few bucks, then shame on you.
* I don't mean the OP, just people in general.
Furthermore, as an experienced MMO player, if someone lacks the skill needed to beat me through conventional means, then at least they can spend some money and keep it interesting for me.
By now we should all know what 'free to play' means. It means those who pay for items through the cash shop will either have an advantage, or a more rewarding game play experience than those of us who don't. Get over it, or go pay a monthly subscription.
Wouldn't a pay to play technically count as pay to win, considering you can't even enter the game unless you paid a subscription, and if you don't, you don't get access to content and loot, thus making you fall further behind?
It's offtopic, but I've been wanting to ask for some time now. Just saying.
You used the word "Most" In your title line but disqualified that by using the word "Any" in your first statement.
Then you used the word "Exactly" in your second statement.
Then you made a generalized statement based on your opinion, with an example, but attributed said opinion to everyone.The fault in this is that even in the sample that you offered people did in fact pay and play.
*Note - I do not entirely disagree with your concept, but your context contradicts itself.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
Yes, as has been pointed out this can be taken to rediculous extremes.
Is a 2000 dollar computer with SSD drives pay to win?
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
The stance of an entitled generation.
The reason people aren't displaying hatred for freemium is probably because the expectation is that you should get more when paying for a premium service than what you receive for the free version.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Actually, WoW is Pay to Win because of expansions.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre