I wanted to say that I completely empathize with what LauraFrost wrote, and see this as a major shortcoming of what the promise of an MMORPG is, and what actually gets delivered. I don't think it works in any sort of "top-down", corporate design; the player will tend to feel alienated from the story in most cases (LOTRO might be an exception, where fans of Tolkien must feel right at home I would imagine).
However, if the storytelling is done from the ground up, it becomes a kind of traditional folk-tale that has exponentially more strength. Let me emphasize this: quests and missions =/= story. For me, writing a mission is just one way to express Vendetta Online's world, told through the lens of my own experience. What do I mean by from the ground up? It is the same thing that happens here, with a different focus: an open, community forum where the best ideas are refined and tried. Only the best stories tend to survive. Note that I am not a dev, or affiliated with Guild Software in any way; I am just a player who has invested a lot of time in that world. Anyone can do it if they choose to.
Lastly, I know there is a lot that can be done with variable quest generators (say, for example, Skyrim's "Radiant AI"). However, let me re-emphasize that quests =/= story. A quest might be one particular representation of a story that exists within a game world. Another example would be a player-held event with multiple possible outcomes that would continue to affect the game world for time to come. I think there is a human touch that gets lost when too much reliance is put on procedural generation, where that line exists is difficult to say.
Anyway, that's enough out of me in this thread.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I couldn't care less about the story path themepark driven mmos lead you down. I don't like it, I think it's boring, and the only reason I even do it is because generally it's the best path and in many cases it's the only path.
I know that everyone else is doing the same thing. It just feels boring. And they waste so much time making it.
They need to make mmos where you choose what to do as soon as you make the character, WITHOUT A SET PATH OR STORY TO FOLLOW.
The real challenge then becomes giving players content and a little direction without forcing everyone down specific paths. Nobody wants to log in and feel like they have nothing to do, or feel confused about what to do, but they also don't want it all handed to them to the point that they're sent on rails down specific paths.
At some point in time, someone took the idea of direction through quests and went completely mad with it, ending up with the entire game being on rails, and now people are bored of that.
Games needs to stop revolving about quest to quest, it's that simple.
I do like sandboxes, but the "story" you create playing those games is really not the sort of story the story-minded players are looking for. They're just "interesting stuff that happens". They're practically experiences. They only become stories in the telling - like here, on the forums. Some of it is really cool, but they lack most of the charm (themes, arcs, character development, subtext, etc.) of good, professionally-crafted stories as in a novel, a movie, or a game like The Longest Journey.
Because those elements don't exactly belong in an MMORPGs. A story in an MMORPG has 0 credibility if '"You" are "The Hero" the world has been waiting for. And yet, that person next to you is also being called "The Hero", and so are the players that came before you, and those that will join after you.
Unless developers find a way to do storytelling that encompasses the entirety of the playerbase, or actually provide different players with a different story elements (possibly like what Citadel Of Sorcery is trying to do) then Storytelling as you describe belongs to a single player game, not an MMORPG.
This is also exactly why MMORPGs are so horrible these days, they're poorly made single-player games with the MMO aspect being side-feature.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Three thoughts popped into my head for this.
1) Single Player games and MMOs used to differ because of the story. In a SP game, *you* are the only hero. There are not millions of other saviors of the universe. Therefor, the story can be so much more in depth with lots of variance and twists and turns. MMOs constantly have to factor in that millions of players will be playing.
2) Choices. In MMOs, if you say "No." to a quest giver, that ends the play right there, with few exceptions. Most quests chain together off of each other. Gone are the days where players had a choice in what they agreed to do with NPCs. Not every player wants to save the world. Some want to rule the world. Storylines hardly ever incorporate these choices.
3) When MMOs release, they have a complete storyline for saving the universe. This does not work well with a persistent online world. Once a player saves the universe, what else is there? A bigger, badder, more terrible threat in a future expansion? That is a slippery slope to take a step down. AND... The game NEVER changes because the player saved the universe. Single Player games have the freedom to deal with this aspect. MMOs do not. Single Player games do not have to deal with millions of players in a persistent world like MMOs do. They are made to be played through to the end. MMOs should not have ends to them. Storylines give games an end point.
I just wanted to respond to AlBQuirky's points
1) I disagree that a single-player RPG will necessarily have more depth to its story content than an MMORPG, provided the designers take into account the context. Some players may find it more rewarding to build a successful in-game business as a humble shop-keeper or traveling trader, than as a hero who slays the far-out mysterious menace, or as a military leader. Why can't there be story content for each?
2) I try to follow the rule of "every action has a consequence"; a player saying "No" to an NPC may indeed shut off one branch of opportunities, but it may open up another. A refusal can stand out to an onlooker even more than an acceptance. Perhaps that onlooker has something that needs to be done that is against the interest of the NPC who was refused. This tends to lead to "shorter" trees, however I would rather have a mission structure that is sensitive to player choice and leaves the player wanting to experience more, than a drawn-out and well-treaded path that leads in a straight line.
3) The danger of developing a static universe, or story inertia; this is huge, and I don't have a good answer for it, other than never to send the player out to intentionally "save all life as we know it" unless s/he is in the employ of a deluded or unreliable character. I have missions in production that were written over four years ago, and are still being played. I guess the silver lining is that if I haven't written myself into a box I can expand on ideas that have already been introduced and refer back to old characters who were my favorites when I go back to design new content. Focusing on the character's place in the world, not the player with whom s/he is interacting, is crucial to me.
With these precautions, writing a story-driven mission tree becomes kind of self-perpetuating; it doesn't necessarily follow standard storytelling norms, but it can definitely draw on storytelling tradition. There is a kind of telling, then a re-telling, then going back and deciding what the re-telling means.
I am not saying it cannot be done. Instances is one way of handling storylines in MMOs. For me, the instances make a MMO a Single Player game.
The big difference is this: In MMOs, your decisions or play cannot affect the other million players in any great way. In Single Player games, your decisions and play can, and do affect the whole game world.
Due to the above, MMO storylines are greatly hindered in what they can and cannot do. They cannot be as in depth as a Single Player game, where your decisions matter greatly. It just seems to me that no matter how great the storyline in a MMO is, when a player looks around and sees that nothing they did in the storyline actually had an effect on the MMO at all, it all becomes very shallow indeed.
Is that making any sense?
[EDIT] To the OP. I have to disagree with your opening premise. Storylines have taken over MMOs these days, making them Single Player games. Can you name many MMOs released in the past 5 years (or upcoming, for that matter) that do not have a big storyline for players to follow along?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
ABQ; yes, it makes a lot of sense. I guess I've found a world where there are hundreds, thousands, or millions of other players by nature more compelling than one where I am playing alone or against an AI. I guess it puts the question out there whether there are players who might find depth in playing one out of a million. In my experience, it's the little things that make a world more believable. A hero is not one who wields great power indiscriminately, a hero is one who changes his or her beliefs in order to accept great power. Sometimes, this means the world changes irrevocably, sometimes things go back to the way they once were. The latter is far more common than the former when there are millions invovled, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the former happening.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I see it exactly the opposite. AoC, LoTRo, SWTOR, Secret World, CO. All of these games and probably many others have cast player of a multiplayer game in essentially the same role, as either the singular hero of the storyline, or in LoTRo, the entire game is playing the same tangential roles as everyone else, as a storyline we all know, unfolds, xpac by xpac.
All of that is antithetical to how, I at least, view MMO's to supposed to have been: World simulators where I get to decide who my character is and how I want that character to develop. When I log into an MMO and some NPC is telling me it's all up to me to save the world. or that my coming has been foretold in the stars, I lose excitement for the game right there.
Of course the impetus for this is publishers who are making singleplayer games but want to rake in the bucks of a sub fee or cash shop sales after they've sold the box, so they slap in a mutliplayer component and call it an MMO.
Originally posted by Amathe TSW and SWTOR both have great stories. WoW had lots of cool stories. I think the stories are there, but more players just blow past them these days.
I agree with WoW. They had lots of cool little stories scattered throughout the game.
The problem with stories is that they consist of a beginning, a middle, and an end. MMOs should not have an ending. So one main storyline in a MMO does not make a lot of sense to me. Little local (as opposed to global) stories scattered all over makes a lot of sense to me. These little stories are what creates depth in a MMO for me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Razeekster Actually as one who enjoys both themeparks and sandboxes your statement is false. Sandboxes are capable of having lore and great storylines too. A lot of is player created I admit, but it's still possible.
Actually as one who enjoys both themeparks and sandboxes your statement is false. Sandboxes are capable of having lore and great storylines too. A lot of is player created I admit, but it's still possible.
History =/= story(telling).
It doesnt? I remember many times at my grandfathers house he told me stories about being in WW2 and Korea. History and his side of the story. Both my grandfathers were actualy on the same boat in the Pacific Theatre. One helping drive the boat the other invading the islands. Thankfuly both came home alive to tell their children and grandchildren their stories. Something i get to pass onto my children. My father was in Vietnam, i was in the military as well. History with personal story, something you wont get out of these newer games.
No different in games. If a game uses an IP such as War Craft, D&D, or an older IP it has history. And you can make a good player created story from the history and lore of such a game.
Many keep bringing up D&D pen and paper, i played a lot as a teenager. We didnt have a virtual world, we made our own. We made our own story, our own adventure, and you know what............ it was hella fun! Probably the reason games arent like this now, newer aged gamers have all this to begin with and didnt need to use their creative side. And thus arent able or dont know how to role play and make a story. They think quests and a linear storyline is all about mmorpg's and miss the major point of a mmorpg.
THe games today give the gamers no tools and no freedom to make history, to adventure properly, or to make a solid story. These games are harming not only the gamers but the industry in my humble opinion. Yeah im old school, but sometimes you just need to use your brain and make things happen. In real life people wont go out of their way to give you sh*t for free, you have to earn it, be creative, and find ways to make it happen.
This is something I've continued to notice as I've played through both MMOs and PC games. MMOs always have seemed to lack something to me, some sort of spark, and I've finally figured it out. The storylines in MMOs usually, well to put it bluntly, suck. After playing through RPG titles for the PC and throughly enjoying their storylines and to go into the world of MMOs and realize that the story that most MMOs tell is terrible it's hard to get myself excited to continue playing (I do it though).
I don't understand why gameplay has to sacrifice a great story. I want to be surprised, not be one of those people who know everything that's going to happen in advance. Hopefully as MMOs continue to evolve (or devolve, whatever your perspective is) the story will be given more thought in each game.
When I first started playing MMORPGs it was this very reason that I enjoyed them even more than more traditional story based games, I found that the mmo gave me all the fun game mechanics I enjoyed and allowed me to create a storyline for myself revolving around me and the other players in the game, much more unique personal experience, and alot more fun.
- though i don't think its an excuse to give credit to some of the downright lazy excuses for mmorpg storylines that have been released. crap is crap. give players something decent to build on at least.
MMO's have been focusing on story more than ever lately, and it hasn't been working out well. Too much time and resources spent focusing on the story, cutscenes, whatever, generally seems to mean that other systems such as combat, crafting, etc., aren't gonna get the same amount of effort and end up lagging behind.
SWTOR, GW2, TSW, etc., all of lots of story, cutscenes, etc., but everything else is so damn boring it's not even worth it. Although TSW is the best of the three and comes closest to delivering in all aspects. Been playing it again lately since it went B2P, but I seem to have to be really bored in order to log in.
But you see, you have to understand one thing. The thing YOU like is everywhere. Most MMOs now are "Quest Driven" with a story attached. Even FPS, Puzzle Games (Portal 2, which has an amazing story) have story-lines and linear progress attached to them. You do enjoy them, I believe you. But I, in the other hand, I am SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING THIS CRAPPY STORY TELLING SHOVED UP MY THROAT EVERY TIME I TRY TO ENJOY SOMETHING THAT IS FAR FROM READING A STORY.
I long for freedom, I long for developers setting us free in a triple A MMORPGs. The best stories to be told, in my 30 years of gaming experience, are the stories that you make during a game's experience (being in a nasty situation with your friends in a dungeon, getting lost, finding a place, dying, escaping certain death...etc) and not a sub-par, so-so, linear story writen by amatures. I'd rather read a book or watch a movie.
/snip
What is stopping you from enjoying non-story based MMOs?
Wurm online?
EVE-online?
If what you like is a niche product you aren't going to get the variety that the majority enjoys.
There is no worthwhile stories in games like EQ when all it is about is grinding mobs for either xp or loot. Surely, you have amusing events like "oh we try a all wiz group and it is different" (which actually happened to me in my EQ days) .. but it is not a story in the context of the lore.
And to be honest, 99% of playing is just "oh this group is great" or "that guy ninja us and i hate it" .. there is no story worth telling. Getting lost, finding a place, dying, dying with a friend ... are just mandane happening in a game. Any linear professional produced story is better than that.
MMO's have been focusing on story more than ever lately, and it hasn't been working out well. Too much time and resources spent focusing on the story, cutscenes, whatever, generally seems to mean that other systems such as combat, crafting, etc., aren't gonna get the same amount of effort and end up lagging behind.
SWTOR, GW2, TSW, etc., all of lots of story, cutscenes, etc., but everything else is so damn boring it's not even worth it. Although TSW is the best of the three and comes closest to delivering in all aspects. Been playing it again lately since it went B2P, but I seem to have to be really bored in order to log in.
The problem with TOR is not the story. The problem is the virtual world and combat system. THe game would be MUCH better as an online ARPG than a MMO with better combat.
MMO's have been focusing on story more than ever lately, and it hasn't been working out well. Too much time and resources spent focusing on the story, cutscenes, whatever, generally seems to mean that other systems such as combat, crafting, etc., aren't gonna get the same amount of effort and end up lagging behind.
SWTOR, GW2, TSW, etc., all of lots of story, cutscenes, etc., but everything else is so damn boring it's not even worth it. Although TSW is the best of the three and comes closest to delivering in all aspects. Been playing it again lately since it went B2P, but I seem to have to be really bored in order to log in.
The problem with TOR is not the story. The problem is the virtual world and combat system. THe game would be MUCH better as an online ARPG than a MMO with better combat.
I think SWTOR could have done fine as an MMO if they focused a bit less on story and VO work and more on the game systems that people would actually be using to, you know, progress through the story. Seems like they basically just put stories together and tacked on a game as an afterthought. lol
The problem with TOR is not the story. The problem is the virtual world and combat system. THe game would be MUCH better as an online ARPG than a MMO with better combat.
I think SWTOR could have done fine as an MMO if they focused a bit less on story and VO work and more on the game systems that people would actually be using to, you know, progress through the story. Seems like they basically just put stories together and tacked on a game as an afterthought. lol
The strong point about bioware is their stories. And there is a huge market for story centric games. There is no reason why they should build a MMO. TOR actually has pretty good stories .. i would be playing the game if it is not a MMO with better combat.
Games have been focusing on storyline too much and letting gameplay fall on the wayside. I have good reason too.
With the exception of WoW, all of the most recent MMORPGs that have been coming out have plenty of story that most common players don't really read. Common players probably aim for a solid combat system with supporting lore and some story at the early and late phases of the game to help them understand the game world. Starwars is the epitome of having too much story and not enough action.
SWTOR has way too much story in it for most people to deal with, they would benefit more from having "Straight Party" voting on quest responses than having the player choose EVERY decision. Personally, when I played SWTOR for a month or so, I got rather bored of always clicking the same kind of option instead of just having the game fill in the blank for me and giving me options at major turning points. Having to make those decisions is kind of fun, but they get old after you have to make a decision on if you want to say yes or tell the guy to shove his head up his bum for the 30th time.
I think the opposite of the thread creator's idea, that games are focusing too much on their storylines instead of innovating styles of gameplay or new mechanics.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
Comments
I wanted to say that I completely empathize with what LauraFrost wrote, and see this as a major shortcoming of what the promise of an MMORPG is, and what actually gets delivered. I don't think it works in any sort of "top-down", corporate design; the player will tend to feel alienated from the story in most cases (LOTRO might be an exception, where fans of Tolkien must feel right at home I would imagine).
However, if the storytelling is done from the ground up, it becomes a kind of traditional folk-tale that has exponentially more strength. Let me emphasize this: quests and missions =/= story. For me, writing a mission is just one way to express Vendetta Online's world, told through the lens of my own experience. What do I mean by from the ground up? It is the same thing that happens here, with a different focus: an open, community forum where the best ideas are refined and tried. Only the best stories tend to survive. Note that I am not a dev, or affiliated with Guild Software in any way; I am just a player who has invested a lot of time in that world. Anyone can do it if they choose to.
Lastly, I know there is a lot that can be done with variable quest generators (say, for example, Skyrim's "Radiant AI"). However, let me re-emphasize that quests =/= story. A quest might be one particular representation of a story that exists within a game world. Another example would be a player-held event with multiple possible outcomes that would continue to affect the game world for time to come. I think there is a human touch that gets lost when too much reliance is put on procedural generation, where that line exists is difficult to say.
Anyway, that's enough out of me in this thread.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I couldn't care less about the story path themepark driven mmos lead you down. I don't like it, I think it's boring, and the only reason I even do it is because generally it's the best path and in many cases it's the only path.
I know that everyone else is doing the same thing. It just feels boring. And they waste so much time making it.
They need to make mmos where you choose what to do as soon as you make the character, WITHOUT A SET PATH OR STORY TO FOLLOW.
The real challenge then becomes giving players content and a little direction without forcing everyone down specific paths. Nobody wants to log in and feel like they have nothing to do, or feel confused about what to do, but they also don't want it all handed to them to the point that they're sent on rails down specific paths.
At some point in time, someone took the idea of direction through quests and went completely mad with it, ending up with the entire game being on rails, and now people are bored of that.
Games needs to stop revolving about quest to quest, it's that simple.
Because those elements don't exactly belong in an MMORPGs. A story in an MMORPG has 0 credibility if '"You" are "The Hero" the world has been waiting for. And yet, that person next to you is also being called "The Hero", and so are the players that came before you, and those that will join after you.
Unless developers find a way to do storytelling that encompasses the entirety of the playerbase, or actually provide different players with a different story elements (possibly like what Citadel Of Sorcery is trying to do) then Storytelling as you describe belongs to a single player game, not an MMORPG.
This is also exactly why MMORPGs are so horrible these days, they're poorly made single-player games with the MMO aspect being side-feature.
The big difference is this: In MMOs, your decisions or play cannot affect the other million players in any great way. In Single Player games, your decisions and play can, and do affect the whole game world.
Due to the above, MMO storylines are greatly hindered in what they can and cannot do. They cannot be as in depth as a Single Player game, where your decisions matter greatly. It just seems to me that no matter how great the storyline in a MMO is, when a player looks around and sees that nothing they did in the storyline actually had an effect on the MMO at all, it all becomes very shallow indeed.
Is that making any sense?
[EDIT]
To the OP. I have to disagree with your opening premise. Storylines have taken over MMOs these days, making them Single Player games. Can you name many MMOs released in the past 5 years (or upcoming, for that matter) that do not have a big storyline for players to follow along?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
ABQ; yes, it makes a lot of sense. I guess I've found a world where there are hundreds, thousands, or millions of other players by nature more compelling than one where I am playing alone or against an AI. I guess it puts the question out there whether there are players who might find depth in playing one out of a million. In my experience, it's the little things that make a world more believable. A hero is not one who wields great power indiscriminately, a hero is one who changes his or her beliefs in order to accept great power. Sometimes, this means the world changes irrevocably, sometimes things go back to the way they once were. The latter is far more common than the former when there are millions invovled, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the former happening.
See also:
Tolkien
The Star Wars Trilogy in context of the Hero's journey
Princess Mononoke
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I see it exactly the opposite. AoC, LoTRo, SWTOR, Secret World, CO. All of these games and probably many others have cast player of a multiplayer game in essentially the same role, as either the singular hero of the storyline, or in LoTRo, the entire game is playing the same tangential roles as everyone else, as a storyline we all know, unfolds, xpac by xpac.
All of that is antithetical to how, I at least, view MMO's to supposed to have been: World simulators where I get to decide who my character is and how I want that character to develop. When I log into an MMO and some NPC is telling me it's all up to me to save the world. or that my coming has been foretold in the stars, I lose excitement for the game right there.
Of course the impetus for this is publishers who are making singleplayer games but want to rake in the bucks of a sub fee or cash shop sales after they've sold the box, so they slap in a mutliplayer component and call it an MMO.
The problem with stories is that they consist of a beginning, a middle, and an end. MMOs should not have an ending. So one main storyline in a MMO does not make a lot of sense to me. Little local (as opposed to global) stories scattered all over makes a lot of sense to me. These little stories are what creates depth in a MMO for me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
History =/= story(telling).
It doesnt? I remember many times at my grandfathers house he told me stories about being in WW2 and Korea. History and his side of the story. Both my grandfathers were actualy on the same boat in the Pacific Theatre. One helping drive the boat the other invading the islands. Thankfuly both came home alive to tell their children and grandchildren their stories. Something i get to pass onto my children. My father was in Vietnam, i was in the military as well. History with personal story, something you wont get out of these newer games.
No different in games. If a game uses an IP such as War Craft, D&D, or an older IP it has history. And you can make a good player created story from the history and lore of such a game.
Many keep bringing up D&D pen and paper, i played a lot as a teenager. We didnt have a virtual world, we made our own. We made our own story, our own adventure, and you know what............ it was hella fun! Probably the reason games arent like this now, newer aged gamers have all this to begin with and didnt need to use their creative side. And thus arent able or dont know how to role play and make a story. They think quests and a linear storyline is all about mmorpg's and miss the major point of a mmorpg.
THe games today give the gamers no tools and no freedom to make history, to adventure properly, or to make a solid story. These games are harming not only the gamers but the industry in my humble opinion. Yeah im old school, but sometimes you just need to use your brain and make things happen. In real life people wont go out of their way to give you sh*t for free, you have to earn it, be creative, and find ways to make it happen.
When I first started playing MMORPGs it was this very reason that I enjoyed them even more than more traditional story based games, I found that the mmo gave me all the fun game mechanics I enjoyed and allowed me to create a storyline for myself revolving around me and the other players in the game, much more unique personal experience, and alot more fun.
- though i don't think its an excuse to give credit to some of the downright lazy excuses for mmorpg storylines that have been released. crap is crap. give players something decent to build on at least.
Mmo examples: coh, war, EQ, daoc
Non mmo examples: tes series
Man, what is the point of this thread?
MMO's have been focusing on story more than ever lately, and it hasn't been working out well. Too much time and resources spent focusing on the story, cutscenes, whatever, generally seems to mean that other systems such as combat, crafting, etc., aren't gonna get the same amount of effort and end up lagging behind.
SWTOR, GW2, TSW, etc., all of lots of story, cutscenes, etc., but everything else is so damn boring it's not even worth it. Although TSW is the best of the three and comes closest to delivering in all aspects. Been playing it again lately since it went B2P, but I seem to have to be really bored in order to log in.
There is no worthwhile stories in games like EQ when all it is about is grinding mobs for either xp or loot. Surely, you have amusing events like "oh we try a all wiz group and it is different" (which actually happened to me in my EQ days) .. but it is not a story in the context of the lore.
And to be honest, 99% of playing is just "oh this group is great" or "that guy ninja us and i hate it" .. there is no story worth telling. Getting lost, finding a place, dying, dying with a friend ... are just mandane happening in a game. Any linear professional produced story is better than that.
The problem with TOR is not the story. The problem is the virtual world and combat system. THe game would be MUCH better as an online ARPG than a MMO with better combat.
I think SWTOR could have done fine as an MMO if they focused a bit less on story and VO work and more on the game systems that people would actually be using to, you know, progress through the story. Seems like they basically just put stories together and tacked on a game as an afterthought. lol
The strong point about bioware is their stories. And there is a huge market for story centric games. There is no reason why they should build a MMO. TOR actually has pretty good stories .. i would be playing the game if it is not a MMO with better combat.
Games have been focusing on storyline too much and letting gameplay fall on the wayside. I have good reason too.
With the exception of WoW, all of the most recent MMORPGs that have been coming out have plenty of story that most common players don't really read. Common players probably aim for a solid combat system with supporting lore and some story at the early and late phases of the game to help them understand the game world. Starwars is the epitome of having too much story and not enough action.
SWTOR has way too much story in it for most people to deal with, they would benefit more from having "Straight Party" voting on quest responses than having the player choose EVERY decision. Personally, when I played SWTOR for a month or so, I got rather bored of always clicking the same kind of option instead of just having the game fill in the blank for me and giving me options at major turning points. Having to make those decisions is kind of fun, but they get old after you have to make a decision on if you want to say yes or tell the guy to shove his head up his bum for the 30th time.
I think the opposite of the thread creator's idea, that games are focusing too much on their storylines instead of innovating styles of gameplay or new mechanics.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.