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What I think of most mmorpgs
Lai'Ahna
Member Posts: 126
Hello, thought I'd share what I think here about most mmorpgs out there. This first was found on another site. It was written by an unknown guest there.
"Having fun playing that game? So which step in the chain is fun to you? Camping the L33t xp spawn for the next 12 hours? Medding for the next 20 minutes before repeating? Or is it the infamous rare drop? You know the one I'm talking about, that drops once every other week and everyone needs it.
Does that sound like it would be a fun game to you? Na I didn't think so but it's the one your playing now...the one you played 6 months ago...the one you played before that...the one you just quit for the next l33t gaming experience...and the one you'll play when it comes out 2 years from now. Gaming doesn't have to be repetitive, but it is. Well Krystar what about the quests? I find questing a blast....not. Why would I waste my time walking Durf Nashish's letter half way across the world to Dumple Flebug for 2 silver, an unnoticeable notch in my experience bar and a chance for an item that was obsolete 4 levels ago when I could be killing that same orc I've been camping for the last 3 months in hopes of a level. Which choice would you pick? I think even the role-players know the obvious choice. Why would I waste my time doing this when I could be out on my dock fishing with the same chances of catching something as I do waiting for that shinny congregation of pixels you call a rare drop?
Every online game has reduced itself to the same Betty Crocker quick, well...not so quick, mix formula for success. The only real difference in games is what level of graphics you'll be spending your 10 bucks a month on. Whether you choose the horrid pixels of Ultima Online or the graphics utopia they call EverQuest it matters not in the end.
Do the game companies mean for their games to completely suck? I doubt it. Is there anything they can do to fix there games? Yes. Do they want to? No not really they have already found the foolproof strategy for game creation. Why do more work on games that are already perfect in their eyes? If it sells it's perfect. If that 10 bucks a month rolls in every month they must be doing something right.
It doesn't take a genius to realize an easy fix for problems like this. I pulled one right off the top of my head. Questing. Make a quest that requires travel not by recall not by gates but on foot. You see your online world. Second make the quest spawn monsters the same level as the person/party accomplishing the quest that will only attack the questors. You are gaining experience while fighting a variety of different creatures that otherwise you would probably never see. Make the end of the quest give good experience which won't be as important because you fought monsters the whole way there. Make the quest give a GOOD item. (All those monsters you killed make the quest fairly hard.) It makes camping spawns obsolete and boredom level much lower since YOU are actually doing something. I am sure there are infinitely better fixes you could think of but this is just my 2 cents on boring games."
I would only like to add that swapping all that time spent at camping for time spent in long drawn out crafting/building is not any better.
better fixes you could think of but this is just my 2 cents on boring games.
It's all about the fantasy baby!
www.solsticeserver.com
Comments
Hehe...this has been done...it's called an "instanced mission". But it seems everybody complains about them. It's Guild Wars' only quest type and IMHO it works wonderfully! ...until you finish all the instances...and then the game is over.
I personally love them...and if they were instances that allowed others to join to help...like DDO is planning, then all the better. I really think they are the future for MMOs if they are tweaked correctly so as not to kill ease of grouping.
As a general rule, I would tend to agree with the OP. I've been playing MMO games for a very, very long time (back when the text based ones were still the "in" thing, around when UO was starting to get huge). Most MMO games tend to be repetitive grinds with little to no real reason to stay there. To be honest, the best MMO as far as having a real reason to stay to date, to me anyway, was Shadowbane. You had to try and conquor the whole world...good luck with that one. Unfortunately, the rest of the game was fairly dry and lifeless (If I have to get to max level to enjoy the "meat" of the game, it's not a game...it's a job).
The biggest problem I find is actually goblins. Yes, goblins. I'm tired of seeing them. By goblins, I'm refering to fantasy MMO games. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of fantasy, but eventually, I get tired of killing the same thing over and over. Goblins, orcs, trolls, undead, you always see them in every fantasy game, with just a varying amount of what you kill where.
Farming, if done right, I think would be a huge part of the enjoyment in a game. Instead of hunting for hours and hours for that one rare loot...have LOTS of rare loot. Just don't make it all equipment. Make it for crafting, or quests. Instead of a rare every 500 drops, make it every 80-100. Find a gem here, a broken piece of armor there, a rune somewhere else. If you craft, use them. If not, sell to a player. Or maybe your class will have uses for the things, like gems for enhancing spell power, or runes for other powers, or maybe the broken armor can be added to your own armor for a boost. Diablo 2 has a wonderful loot system (until endgame at 99...but then, i've only hit that once)
A good, workable PvP system would do wonders for boredom also. A fully open, PvP world with real laws and rules with real consequences. It adds to the adrenaline of a game if you have to look over your shoulder for players. Hey look, a level 50 is gonna gank me. Alright, his name turns red. In most game's...that's it. In a working PvP system, he would be in real trouble. Suddenly he can be killed without penalty, going into towns will cause him to be attacked by guards, he could be jailed by them for a while (hour to a day I would guess, depending on penalty) his items can drop now, stuff like that. An open PvP game with a real system of laws that would hurt you for ganking (and even PvP if you do it often enough...you think the law won't notice cause he's your level? Try running that past a sherriff) would make a game more heartpounding.
Classes...honestly, most MMO games seem to be good with classes. Although in the case of some, like Rhyzom, there are none, you just get a starting set and work from there leveling anything you want. To be perfectly honest, i'm not sure which system is better. On one hand, you have your favorites that you can play, you know you like your Paladin or Jedi or whatever. On the other, you can MAKE your Paladin or Jedi however you want, with whatever powers you want, and totally custom fit it to your tastes. Which is better? Depends on the type of player you are probobly.
Leveling, again, is a whole different animal. Some people love to grind, love it to death. Personally, I would like to see a game with two leveling systems. One for your stats (get HP and Mana (or whatever) at each level, as well as a set number of stat points for your stats) and a skill level. You gain stats for fighting. You get skills for using your skills more often. You want to be a swordsman? Start with your sluggish butt with a sword and go kill some things to get better at it, raise your strength, raise your hp, get better at it. Would add a note to realism, as well as let players do something other then grind all the time. Crafting gets better as you do it, so should your swordsmanship, or your marskmanship. Purchasing new skills would be a good idea also. Your bored with swords? Go pay a trainer to teach you how to use spears. Of course, you SHOULD be able to just pick up a spear and learn yourself...but that should take a lot longer, and change the skills you learn (like a trained and untrained skill tree). The untrained one shouldn't neccessarily be weaker though...just different, maybe even stronger, since it would take longer to level it.
Anyway, I could probobly toss out a LOT more ideas on how to make my MMO experience better, but i'm sure i've tossed enough out to give people plenty to flame/comment on. Let's hope we someday find a way to make MMO games better for everybody.
nice post codexia
funny thing is, even though people bag it for being simplistic, in one way or another WoW has most of those things you mentioned.
1. different mobs to fight from the norm (IMHO anyway), including npc factions that you have to balance how many you kill with how much they hate you to be able to do certain other quests
2. interesting and varied loot (at least compared to the mmos i've played, which didn't include diablo or asherons call the ones everyone mentions on this topic) where you can get a range of different items, for crafting, armor, weapons, quests, etc.
3. class-based but with skills, like individual weapon skill, that level separately. try using a sword from lvl 1 to 20 and then switching to an axe (or vice versa) and you'll see what i mean. also from level 10 on the different paths for each class that makes all chars slightly different at least and also means variety in what type of weapons and armor toons, even of the same class, use.
4. paying a trainer to teach you a new skill (ie. weapons, & spells too)
Add to this the fact that it's got trial-type quests to even be able to get the class-spells for a toon, witness the Druid or the Warlock for instance. The PvP design on the normal servers is also very good, where if you elect to kill a player then everyone else can get you for a certain amount of time, or sometimes if you kill certain NPCs you become open for PvP attack too. Also, excellent storyline quests, and not just one but hundreds in all different parts of the world. A simple but balanced and fun gathering/crafting system that doesn't mean huge time sink for little returns, nor is it quick money. I could go on...but won't for risk of the labeling.
Just using WoW as an example here (not fanboi-ing it in any way), but even though it has all these things people still call it simplistic, and say it's not advancing the development of MMOs. I just think, there's NO WAY of satisfying people with this type of encompassing game (where so much can be done)...or at least not of satisfying everyone. That's why I'm a bit concerned that ALL the upcoming MMOs (except maybe DDO, Spellborn and Conan) seem to be all going the same way...ie. "massive world" (think empty), open pvp (think gankfest), player run kingdoms (think...only longterm and hardcore players get the chance to have any say in the running of the world and new players have no chance), complex crafting systems (think timesink). These probably aren't the game for me, yet I know many are really looking forward to them. I know I'll try them out, but I still think I'll be glad when DDO, Spellborn and Conan come out.
Wow...that was long sorry bout that.
The thing that bothers me is how many times I see somebody say something about things that are in a fantasy game not being real enough. If they want real. Then why play a fantasy game in the first place?
For me fantasy land has always been a place were things can be anything at all. Where laws of nature in our real world and lives do not matter or may not even exist. No law of how gravity is supposed to be. No law about how much weight is, as there is no gravity law.
I was very happy with the graphics way back in the kings quest series. I for one am not happy with the 3D worlds. They look to bland I think. No fantasy feeling to them. I loved the old MUDD games even without graphics.
The thing with MUDDs was we enjoyed the social things we had to do back then besides group hack-n-slashing. We had dance floors in houses and in other buildings. A skating pond with skates and even mugs of hot coacoa. A swimming hole with a tree to climb and jump off into the water from a branch. We all had fun doing those things.
What would be wrong with things like that? Maybe a festival with contests too?
I am so bored with these games now. I have 3 games I am waiting on now. If none of them are good for me. I shall quit playing and move on to find the next form of entertainment. Maybe take on a hobby.
It's all about the fantasy baby!
www.solsticeserver.com
I do agree that WoW has a lot of the things that I tend to look for in a game...and I did play WoW for a few months (never got past level 35 or so, kept makin new chars, lol) but for some reason, the game ended up losing it's charm. It's quests, while varied, were still repetitive and basicaly just rehashes of each other. The crafting system is horrible, and at least for me personally, I really like a good crafting system. Your ability to customize your crafted item was 0.
PvP in WoW is decent...I suppose, but really basic. You kill, you get killed. Nothing else happens, ever. You have no sense of danger. Ok, you killed that guy...now what? You die =/ you don't lose anything for it cept time and a little money for repairs. I'm not a fan of losing EVERYTHING, but I think the more you kill, the more you should lose. It's the only way to really balance out griefers. Of course, there would need to be special PvP areas where you can PvP freely. WoW has that also. Unfortunately, their setup is bad. Their endgame PvP is for hardcore players only, you can't afford to be casual, or you lose the ability to wear your armor. That bites, badly.
WoW's not a bad game, was fun for a while, but...the beauty eventually dwindled.
Oh, and it has Murlock's
A lot of people are excited about the possibility of player-run kingdoms and end-game content in games. I know it intrigues me, and could take away from the farming tedium/pointless questing/etc. EVE tries to do it, and it looks like DnL will try to do it, too.
Here's my issue with this "new direction":
I have no problem with a long term, established player being the King while me, the new player, is a pig herder. I have no problem with this whatsoever. It seems fair - not everyone can be the King, so let it be the person who spent the most time at it.
The problem is, the player of the King is not necessarily the person you'd want as a King. He's the person who's spent a thousand hours of the last thousand and one power-leveling his character. He doesn't throw tourneys, or festivals. He doesn't manage his Kingdom in a fun, fantasy based way. He doesn't even act Kingly - if you *are* priviledged to see him walking through his Kingdom (read: running with swords drawn and full plate armor) and he talks to you, he's more likely to say, "sup n00b" than "Greetings, citizen." He's less likely to declare war on a foreign Kingdom, call in his vassals and march to battle, flags waving, etc. than he is just to run out of the city, go to the other Kingdom, and start randomly killing new players until he dies, then do it all over again.
The reality is - powerful characters tend to be the front for weak players. So, our kingdoms, our quests, our plots, are all run by NPCs, who at least have the courtesy in their pointless quests or "kill 100 goblin" missions to follow a semi-storyline or look kingly.
Its a tragedy without a solution. Historically, kings were trained for years on how to be kingly if they inherited, or, if they won through combat, knew they had to behave a certain way to remain king. (and, to be honest, they probably conquered the kingdom so they *could* behave that way) The realities of MMOs do not include this.
If DnL's "social" xp has something to encourage this, I'm for it. Otherwise, we should expect future MMOs to have the same play style as current MMOs. Its hard to roleplay with non-roleplayers about. Its hard to be a non-roleplayer when people expect/demand that you roleplay.
Its a paradox.
- Misamore
That sums it up very well Misamore. Your reasons are almost exactly why I'm not really looking forward to the new massive-player-run-kingdoms upcoming mmorpgs.
I really feel that it's the developers JOB to put in interesting content and not be so lazy as to leave it up to the players, particularly the players who just zoom to top level, they're the LEAST likely to produce any meaningful content for those coming after them.
And the other thing that concerns me; what sort of content is produceable using this system? Very mediocre stuff at best; king says lets attack this fortress, king says lets take over this kingdom, king says go see how many people are in this area, king says gather grain, king says put your hands on your head. Nothing interesting there...and with the huge variety of players that will be around on a large server NO opportunity for roleplaying to make it FEEL like an interesting rpg.
All games grind to one extent or another. You don't notice the grind as much in games that are meant to have uber short play sessions like Street Fighter, R-Type, or Pac Man. When a game is meant to be played in sessions greater than 30 minutes however, the player begins to feel the grind and the game start to become less fun. We make up for this with "progress" game elements like upgrades or levels that encourage the player to continue despite the boring repitition.
I like the idea of instancing, especially if it takes less than 30 minutes to play through an instance. Ultimately, this is what people want. Drop into the game, gather some friends together, and go on a quick Co-op adventure or team PvP instance. What this genre needs is a way to automate the process of making instances so that they are customized to the level and class mix of the party that requests the quest. This would free the devs from having to hand tool every quest in the game and allow them to focus entirely on expanding the gameplay. If there are any devs reading this, take note: GAMES ARE NOT MOVIES!! Story is great, but we don't play games in order to be told a story. We play games for intellectual stimulation. Games are a dialog between two or more players (the computer can count as a player in most games) that isn't unlike a debate. In short, less content and more more gameplay. You can break down most quests to their basic elements and mix and match them algorythmically. This kind of system would make the game infinitely replayable and still leave room for expansion. It would also make it easier to net those elusive "casual" gamers that don't have umpteen hundred hours to spare for gaming.
Alot of what the original poster (and myself) said is in place, to some degree, in many MMORPGs. The only thing I would probably change is the focus on killing as the only way to gain XP. In my view, XP should only be awarded by completing the instance and should also be based on how the instance was accomplished. Objectives should also be a little more diverse than just "get from point A to point B and back again" sort of affairs. Theft, sabatoge, eavesdropping, and all other forms of dirty dealling could be made into quests involving stealth and I'm sure that there are other activities that could be placed into an instance that don't involve combat in order to succeed. Hell, it would be cool to give players double XP on a quest that they completed bloodlessly.
Not so, as in DnL there is more then one kingdom to choose from. The king must be voted in and can be voted out. Apparently you have not followed it very closely. I have sense the summer of 03. Another thing you fail to know is that DnL will be rping encouraged and even rewarded. I do believe you should learn of what we speak before inserting foot in mouth.
Oh and as for the p/ling, That will not be an easy thing to accomplish with the monsters/mobs not having any set spawn spots.
It's all about the fantasy baby!
www.solsticeserver.com
I generally agree with the topic creator, however, what makes an MMO fun is the community. Sure, grinding/crafting like that wouldn't be fun at all if you were lonely. What makes it enjoyable is sharing the experience with thousands of other players just like you. Being able to shout "YEAH GUYS I FINALLY GOT THE DROP!" and being replied to with "Grats!" and "nice man" over guild chat is a great feeling.
My two cents.