Originally posted by Normandy7 Guild Wars games have no grind. I'm not sure what kind of game ArenaNet made to be honest. It seems just like another typical theme park gear grind that we already have out there. Though I will say that anyone who does not have a decent amount of time to put into mmos then they probably shouldn't be playing mmos in the first place. Some people just have too many life priorities to be able to put the time in. You can't always have your cake and eat it too.
Seems just like? Well there's your problem... forget about what the naysayers on the forums here are saying and actually play the game so you can see for yourself how incorrect they are.
As for grind in the original Guild Wars... there was a significant grind for the "exotic" armors there... obsidian, etc. But, like in GW2, how you choose to grind if you wish is optional and not required.
Hmmm I bought a full set of exotics at 80 for a couple gold each. Then I picked up the t2 cosmetic cultural armour I liked to get my look... Then I bought dye to pretty it up. None of that cost me even close to what the op claims, not even in the same ballpark. No idea what hes going on about...
I bought full exotics for my thief for around 20gold once I hit level 80. I had 12 gold left over.
Now, if I want I can grind out gold or karma to pick up something specific, but that is just if I want to. BIG difference.
Need vs Want. People should try to understand the difference.
However the point is: if they are targetting the non-grinding crowd, why create a grind for any aspect of the game?
because they aren't just targetting the non-grind crowd of course... they are trying to encourage all types of players to enjoy their game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No grind at all seeing as how the legendaries arent all the great and can be done at a slow pace while playing and having fun.
You are CHOOSING to create grind.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
There is a LOT of grind, but thats all MMos, grind creates a reason to play. The problem is, the grind in this game is the 'boring' kind which really detracts a lot, particularly with the model they ushered in. I think the grind was added mostly since they realized that their hope to 'keep people playing without insentives to do so' was quite a foolish idea. People get bored of games, particularly when they can't accomplish anything. That is the reason why FPS games have added leveling systems and other things to keep people's attention on the game.
The grind they put is an example of what NOT to do. It really needs to be better designed to feel less like a 'grind' or making it more of an 'optional' thing to do rather then a 'to be the best' kind of reason.
It doesn't require any grind. No seriously, it doesn't. You don't need the expensive stuff to be able to do all the content. Having "Fancy Armor of Fancyness" doesn't benefit you in any way other than pure vanity. 100g for base exotic set? Yeah, maybe if you plan to buy every single mat off TP, which never happens, because whyw ould youw hen you can easily gather most of the stuff just from levelling to 80? Not to mention you can finish all explorable modes in masterworks.
Complaining about Legendary being a grind? Seriously? KArma? Ever since they started rewarding jugs of karma for dailies and monthlies it's harldy an issue, hence the whole Orrian JEwelry Box to create a karma dump because people had no use for that.
Ascended gear? Well if you really need that agony resistance... which isn't really required till later tiers of Fractals, which happens to be the place where you can get those items... Or you can just do dailies for a month.
Grind seems like a nice but overused word. There is farming, sure, optional farming, for vanity, but grind? MMO gamers nowadays have no idea what grind is and seem to call anything they currently don't feel liek doing as grind because they aren't handed everything for free just because how awesome they are.
I quote this one, cause sums up my outlook on it really. I've felt no grind, only fun. But admittedly I have 3 L80s, a couple in their 50s and no legendary or any other stuff. As long as I hve an outfit I like on, I'm happy. I've noticed no gear=win in pvp or anywhere so far.
There is a LOT of grind, but thats all MMos, grind creates a reason to play. The problem is, the grind in this game is the 'boring' kind which really detracts a lot, particularly with the model they ushered in. I think the grind was added mostly since they realized that their hope to 'keep people playing without insentives to do so' was quite a foolish idea. People get bored of games, particularly when they can't accomplish anything. That is the reason why FPS games have added leveling systems and other things to keep people's attention on the game.
The grind they put is an example of what NOT to do. It really needs to be better designed to feel less like a 'grind' or making it more of an 'optional' thing to do rather then a 'to be the best' kind of reason.
Yes, it may create reason to play, but only for those who like that form of incentive.
I am not a 'pro-GW2' poster by any stretch (just look at my post history) but I wouldn't say GW2 has 'too much grind'.
I think that is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because players can play what they want rather than 'omg i need to raid X for my next item!' but bad if the player is after a more 'loot whore' experience like TorchLight / WoW.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I bought full exotics for my thief for around 20gold once I hit level 80. I had 12 gold left over.
Now, if I want I can grind out gold or karma to pick up something specific, but that is just if I want to. BIG difference.
Need vs Want. People should try to understand the difference.
However the point is: if they are targetting the non-grinding crowd, why create a grind for any aspect of the game?
because they aren't just targetting the non-grind crowd of course... they are trying to encourage all types of players to enjoy their game
Which people enjoy the Legendary grind? I am willing to be they are below 1% of the current GW2 population.
think you greatly underestimate how many people enjoy looking awsome in their MMOs:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You worded your poll strangely.. so I had to put "disagree". Sure, there's a little too much grinding for my tastes, but required? No. Unlike WoW, you can get into whatever content you want in GW2 just on the virtue of having basic 80 gear and some skill. So again, no. It's not required.
I believe that Guild Wars 2 does have grind, a pretty fair amount too. But, allow me to say that every MMO does and should have grind. Would you play a game where any item you wanted was just handed to you? Or do you want to feel like you earned something? The grind isn't a bad thing, the trick is making the grind fun.
Originally posted by EternalSage2000 I believe that Guild Wars 2 does have grind, a pretty fair amount too. But, allow me to say that every MMO does and should have grind. Would you play a game where any item you wanted was just handed to you? Or do you want to feel like you earned something? The grind isn't a bad thing, the trick is making the grind fun.
My favorite part of the old mat grind for gold is that if you happen to take a friend along, you don't have to go searching bodies that he or she killed 70 yards away while the one standing next to you gives you nothing. I always hated that in WoW.
People need to keep in mind that ANet's vision was somewhat altered because of people who wanted a kind of gameplay they weren't initially promising; ie: that's why we have hearts and probably why we have grind. Now of course, you're upset by it. I'm not surprised.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Guild Wars games have no grind. I'm not sure what kind of game ArenaNet made to be honest. It seems just like another typical theme park gear grind that we already have out there. Though I will say that anyone who does not have a decent amount of time to put into mmos then they probably shouldn't be playing mmos in the first place. Some people just have too many life priorities to be able to put the time in. You can't always have your cake and eat it too.
Guild Wars had grind it didn't have progression, that is, there was armor grind but the stats didn't increase over what you could get with very little effort. ANet changed this with Guild Wars 2 first by adding legendaries that had slight increases over there counter parts and then acsended gear changed it even more.
TBF you clealy did not play Gw1 anywhere near the later half of it's life if you thought it had no grind. Title tracks gave you more powerful skills a lot more powerful, people would often choose not to party with you if you did not have the right title level. These titles were the grindiest shit going. This was all post Nightfall. Before nightfall you'd be correct but not now. GW1 has plenty of grind.
GW2 started with far less grind than gw1 currently has and now it's moved up a bit but it's nowhere near it yet. It's like people seem to have selective memory. How many of you actually did the quests for the torment weapons in NF, I'd guess not many.
It was balanced in pvp, but gw2 is balanced in pvp, the only one you could argue is WvW which is inherently unbalanced, since people would aim for the best armor and max level in wvw anyway, A-Net simply moved that up slightly.
Many will say "you are not forced to grind - you are pointing to optional content."
But lets start a tally list shall we.
1. You want to get a legendary? This is a massive grind along multiple fronts to gather all that is needed.
2. The new Daily Laurel system - a grind if you want the rewards from the laurels.
3. Fractals - a gear grind.
4. Dungeons - each are a token grind for gear.
5. Karma events - karma grind for gear or for the karma needed for a legendary.
6. Crafting high level items - all grind and anet's nerf to loot drops, diminishing returns implementation to fight bots etc. has made this worse. The economy in game is a mess as well with crafted items worth less that the value of the mats due to the fact everyone needs the same stuff and the drop rates suck.
7. PVP or WVW - more grind to get the gear and/or badges of honor.
8. Ever think you want one of the cooler looking weapons that require lodestones? Good luck - the drop rate on these can be less than 1 per hour and when you need 250 ...
There is no real end game so anet is making this game a grind fest to keep players from running out of things to do and moving to other games. But - the grindfest is 180% different than how the game was advertised so many are leaving anyway.
Its going to be up to anet to figure out how to fix this. I am not encouraged by what I have seen so far. The one new content release - Southsun Cove - was a total fiasco and few players even bother going to this zone due to the lack of content and loot once there.
Many will say "you are not forced to grind - you are pointing to optional content."
But lets start a tally list shall we.
1. You want to get a legendary? This is a massive grind along multiple fronts to gather all that is needed.
2. The new Daily Laurel system - a grind if you want the rewards from the laurels.
3. Fractals - a gear grind.
4. Dungeons - each are a token grind for gear.
5. Karma events - karma grind for gear or for the karma needed for a legendary.
6. Crafting high level items - all grind and anet's nerf to loot drops, diminishing returns implementation to fight bots etc. has made this worse. The economy in game is a mess as well with crafted items worth less that the value of the mats due to the fact everyone needs the same stuff and the drop rates suck.
7. PVP or WVW - more grind to get the gear and/or badges of honor.
8. Ever think you want one of the cooler looking weapons that require lodestones? Good luck - the drop rate on these can be less than 1 per hour and when you need 250 ...
There is no real end game so anet is making this game a grind fest to keep players from running out of things to do and moving to other games. But - the grindfest is 180% different than how the game was advertised so many are leaving anyway.
Its going to be up to anet to figure out how to fix this. I am not encouraged by what I have seen so far. The one new content release - Southsun Cove - was a total fiasco and few players even bother going to this zone due to the lack of content and loot once there.
TBF there's massive irony right in this post it's actually quite hilarious. There's no real endgame so anet is making this a grindfest. Herp derp. that's precisely what an endgame is a massive grind fest. You can't it go both ways man. You either want it to not be like other mmo's I.E no real endgame or you don't.
Many will say "you are not forced to grind - you are pointing to optional content."
But lets start a tally list shall we.
1. You want to get a legendary? This is a massive grind along multiple fronts to gather all that is needed.
Legendary is a grind if you don't want to pay real money for them.
2. The new Daily Laurel system - a grind if you want the rewards from the laurels.
Not a grind, each daily can easly be done each day with just playing normally.
3. Fractals - a gear grind.
Fractals are dungeons, so not a gear grind and you can(Soon) get ascended from other means (currently not but thats changing)
4. Dungeons - each are a token grind for gear.
Doing 1 dungeon a day is a grind? because you can make several hundred tokens per dungeon each day, not a grind.
5. Karma events - karma grind for gear or for the karma needed for a legendary.
All events give karma, plus you get karma jugs from dailies, just play the game and soon you have karma coming out your ears, i don't even try to farm karma and i have 1.5 million karma. not a grind
6. Crafting high level items - all grind and anet's nerf to loot drops, diminishing returns implementation to fight bots etc. has made this worse. The economy in game is a mess as well with crafted items worth less that the value of the mats due to the fact everyone needs the same stuff and the drop rates suck.
I don't craft so i can't comment on this.
7. PVP or WVW - more grind to get the gear and/or badges of honor.
Again casual play in WvW will net you plenty of badges, just follow the zerg, make sure you get a few hits in on enemys and remember to press F while fighting and soon without even trying you have hundreds of badges, not a grind.
8. Ever think you want one of the cooler looking weapons that require lodestones? Good luck - the drop rate on these can be less than 1 per hour and when you need 250 ...
You can buy lodestones off Trading post and you can get tons from the right mobs, i guess your unlucky i have tons, granted they can take a while to collect but i still don't consider it a nessercery grind.
There is no real end game so anet is making this game a grind fest to keep players from running out of things to do and moving to other games. But - the grindfest is 180% different than how the game was advertised so many are leaving anyway.
There is plenty of end-game, it just starts before you get to the end of the game so your confused, WvW for starters is pretty much end game if you so choose there are also other activites such as achivements.
Its going to be up to anet to figure out how to fix this. I am not encouraged by what I have seen so far. The one new content release - Southsun Cove - was a total fiasco and few players even bother going to this zone due to the lack of content and loot once there.
outhsun cove on my server wasn't a total fiasco, it turned out well and i got about 6 exotics from that event.
Sounds like GW2 isn't your sort of game and perhaps you should move on, no offence givin.
Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.
Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.
Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.
Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.
Most players wouldn't pay a sub if they hadn't started paying one years ago when there was much less options.
That is why the subs MMORPG market share has been dropping.
Expect subs to drop in any game with an alternative.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.
Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.
People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science. You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves. If you took just that thing out of those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..
Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Don't even waste your time leveling Jewlery to max. Ascended gear is way better than what you can craft at level 400. Kind of a spit in the face for crafters.
Originally posted by Betakodo Don't even waste your time leveling Jewlery to max. Ascended gear is way better than what you can craft at level 400. Kind of a spit in the face for crafters.
Strange I still find the crafting pretty good ,,,different strokes for different folks I guess
Originally posted by Betakodo Don't even waste your time leveling Jewlery to max. Ascended gear is way better than what you can craft at level 400. Kind of a spit in the face for crafters.
Comments
Aion was a grind, GW2 was too easy.
Seems just like? Well there's your problem... forget about what the naysayers on the forums here are saying and actually play the game so you can see for yourself how incorrect they are.
As for grind in the original Guild Wars... there was a significant grind for the "exotic" armors there... obsidian, etc. But, like in GW2, how you choose to grind if you wish is optional and not required.
Oderint, dum metuant.
However the point is: if they are targetting the non-grinding crowd, why create a grind for any aspect of the game?
because they aren't just targetting the non-grind crowd of course... they are trying to encourage all types of players to enjoy their game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No grind at all seeing as how the legendaries arent all the great and can be done at a slow pace while playing and having fun.
You are CHOOSING to create grind.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
There is a LOT of grind, but thats all MMos, grind creates a reason to play. The problem is, the grind in this game is the 'boring' kind which really detracts a lot, particularly with the model they ushered in. I think the grind was added mostly since they realized that their hope to 'keep people playing without insentives to do so' was quite a foolish idea. People get bored of games, particularly when they can't accomplish anything. That is the reason why FPS games have added leveling systems and other things to keep people's attention on the game.
The grind they put is an example of what NOT to do. It really needs to be better designed to feel less like a 'grind' or making it more of an 'optional' thing to do rather then a 'to be the best' kind of reason.
I quote this one, cause sums up my outlook on it really. I've felt no grind, only fun. But admittedly I have 3 L80s, a couple in their 50s and no legendary or any other stuff. As long as I hve an outfit I like on, I'm happy. I've noticed no gear=win in pvp or anywhere so far.
Which people enjoy the Legendary grind? I am willing to be they are below 1% of the current GW2 population.
Yes, it may create reason to play, but only for those who like that form of incentive.
I am not a 'pro-GW2' poster by any stretch (just look at my post history) but I wouldn't say GW2 has 'too much grind'.
I think that is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because players can play what they want rather than 'omg i need to raid X for my next item!' but bad if the player is after a more 'loot whore' experience like TorchLight / WoW.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
think you greatly underestimate how many people enjoy looking awsome in their MMOs:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My favorite part of the old mat grind for gold is that if you happen to take a friend along, you don't have to go searching bodies that he or she killed 70 yards away while the one standing next to you gives you nothing. I always hated that in WoW.
People need to keep in mind that ANet's vision was somewhat altered because of people who wanted a kind of gameplay they weren't initially promising; ie: that's why we have hearts and probably why we have grind. Now of course, you're upset by it. I'm not surprised.
TBF you clealy did not play Gw1 anywhere near the later half of it's life if you thought it had no grind. Title tracks gave you more powerful skills a lot more powerful, people would often choose not to party with you if you did not have the right title level. These titles were the grindiest shit going. This was all post Nightfall. Before nightfall you'd be correct but not now. GW1 has plenty of grind.
GW2 started with far less grind than gw1 currently has and now it's moved up a bit but it's nowhere near it yet. It's like people seem to have selective memory. How many of you actually did the quests for the torment weapons in NF, I'd guess not many.
It was balanced in pvp, but gw2 is balanced in pvp, the only one you could argue is WvW which is inherently unbalanced, since people would aim for the best armor and max level in wvw anyway, A-Net simply moved that up slightly.
Many will say "you are not forced to grind - you are pointing to optional content."
But lets start a tally list shall we.
1. You want to get a legendary? This is a massive grind along multiple fronts to gather all that is needed.
2. The new Daily Laurel system - a grind if you want the rewards from the laurels.
3. Fractals - a gear grind.
4. Dungeons - each are a token grind for gear.
5. Karma events - karma grind for gear or for the karma needed for a legendary.
6. Crafting high level items - all grind and anet's nerf to loot drops, diminishing returns implementation to fight bots etc. has made this worse. The economy in game is a mess as well with crafted items worth less that the value of the mats due to the fact everyone needs the same stuff and the drop rates suck.
7. PVP or WVW - more grind to get the gear and/or badges of honor.
8. Ever think you want one of the cooler looking weapons that require lodestones? Good luck - the drop rate on these can be less than 1 per hour and when you need 250 ...
There is no real end game so anet is making this game a grind fest to keep players from running out of things to do and moving to other games. But - the grindfest is 180% different than how the game was advertised so many are leaving anyway.
Its going to be up to anet to figure out how to fix this. I am not encouraged by what I have seen so far. The one new content release - Southsun Cove - was a total fiasco and few players even bother going to this zone due to the lack of content and loot once there.
TBF there's massive irony right in this post it's actually quite hilarious. There's no real endgame so anet is making this a grindfest. Herp derp. that's precisely what an endgame is a massive grind fest. You can't it go both ways man. You either want it to not be like other mmo's I.E no real endgame or you don't.
Most players are only sticking with it because its f2p, stick a sub on it, then see the defenders of their so called great game whine that it isnt worth a sub.
Take away the fractuals and legendary grind what has the game got? nothing, its an empty shell.
Most players wouldn't pay a sub if they hadn't started paying one years ago when there was much less options.
That is why the subs MMORPG market share has been dropping.
Expect subs to drop in any game with an alternative.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
People play the game (not stick to it) because they finds it fun, in fact there is no sub and risk of falling behind in gear curve to hook them to the game, they play because they enjoy it, not rocket science. You could equally ask why people in other mmorgs spend 4-16 hours a week dying over and over on boss fights, doing the same thing over and over and over until they rote memorise the moves. If you took just that thing out of those type of mmorgs - boss fights, those games would implode, in fact they would go ftp..
Ofc people would reconsider if it was a sub game, sub games are from the dark ages, who on earth would pay £100 a year on subs when it has now been shown that you dont need obscene profits to run an AAA game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Strange I still find the crafting pretty good ,,,different strokes for different folks I guess
Bro do you even craft??????