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Afelhem(underneath me)
jamie_afelhe
Member Posts: 14
Hello, first of all I'd like to clear up that we are not using realmcrafter. I did purchase it, to use a few of their images and textures, and some models, however we are not using their engine. It's something good to learn off of, but we have been working for 6 months now, and realmcrafter was only released in october. Again, it was purchased for their royalty free images and stuff... Those screenshots were practice, not official. I guess it was just to show they are 3D... The only tool being used the make it easier, is T.E.D (a terrain editor, just for making terrains easier without knowledge of 3d modelling) We have complete knowledge of the languages being used. The 20 dollars a month beta is actually more of a donation to keep our servers running and game going. And, yes people are buying it. RealmCrafter is insufficiant and too cheap for whats planned in this game, and could never carry out all the neat things that will be possible. I hope we got that claered up because just the thought of people thinking were using realmcrafter scares me, and the gui in-game are temporary, VERY TEMPORARY. You may lock this topic if you wish. Thanks,
Jamie
Comments
I dont wanna bash on you or your "upcoming game" but I really dont think ppl are gonna dish out 20$ a month for a game that seem totaly unfinished, with sub par graphics coming from a dev team that admit they have no 3d modeling experience.
Not to burst your bubble but finished MMORPG from big companies are about 15$/month... why would ppl pay 20$ for something thats clearly unfinished.
If you've read MMORPG.com forums much at all, or have much experience with MMOs, you know what "paid beta" brings to mind in many people's heads.
Mourning.
You don't want to be Mourning. "Paid" betas are just trying to get money out of people for an incomplete game. Part of game development is risk. If you can't afford the risk, find an investor who can.
When you've removed fees, refunded those you've taken, apologized for trying to slip a "paid beta" past people, and shown screenshots that involve at least a few original factors, you'll do a lot better. A dev who can learn from mistakes enough to do such a thing, I'd respect enough to at least try their game.
Keep the paid beta, and you'll be spending a lot of time dealing with irate people in the future.
wow if u cant model, create sprites, create heightmaps for terrain, or create ur own textures
then u have no business making a game an mmorpg nonetheless
by no means am i trying to kill ur dream of creating ur own mmorpg in fact i support ur efforts, i truly admire u indy guys tryin to create a game of ur own design against all the odds
but if ur gunna embark on making an mmorpg get SERIOUS, even if this is a part time deal or a hobby thing
it takes yrs of pouring ur blood, sweat, and tears into tryin to flesh a game out
and by not having available to u an even mediocre modeller/animator or gfx artist and i assume u dont seeing u have to bum the works of others ur really handicapping urself and ur project
i wish u guys the best of luck with ur game, u and people like urself will prove to be the savior of this genre i firmly belive that
so keep it up
Yeah I know that, I wasnt the one wo maid it paid beta anyways, it was another admin on our forums. Right now, it is all original content except for the grass and sky texture, those were royalty-free and they look pretty good, but I guess too common. Everyone seems egaer to help out by donating money to us and stuff so far, and I am quite ready for the investment, but they know and I know that all money goes towards expanding the game and developing it a lot faster. The first screenshots were all royalty free models and stuff. Now I have made a few buildings and a few trees with 3d studio max7(licenced)
I have never made an mmo before, but I have made many other smaller games, my favorite was a 3d megaman game I made a while back, so I do know what i'm doing for the most part though, and everyone at our forums all agree to what we do, I'm sure once we have a larger amount of people, there will be more demands of stuff, but the beta is free for people later, just right now its pre-beta, and most of them wanted to donate money but we had no button on site(we recently added though) and they also wanted to at least run around some areas, so we are just doing that and they dont even mind. It will change over time though, I assure you.
edit* someone posted just befoe me. Yes I can model, I just cant model good people. Buildings, trees, landscapes hightmaps and all that are easy just long and boring. I paid for 3d studio max 7, and I know how to use it, I just can never get a normal looking person. And yes we have been working for 6 months now, I know what this is like so far, it is very frustrating especially today, I cant seem to get the client working today.
edit2* Oh and btw, those pictures are a few months old(the top ones) I have retextured a lot of stuff, and changed the look a lot. I also work about 8 hours a day on this game so yeah, im pretty dedicated to it, and theres always others helping me. I have money for all the custom models I need as well...
came back to ask a few quick questions just out of curiosity
u using directx or opengl ?
also r u using mipmapping ?
r u using detail textures ?
and last 1 r u using any texture compression ?
k was just curious was taking a gander at ur screens
if u care to answer id appreciate it
came back to ask a few quick questions just out of curiosity
u using directx or opengl ?
also r u using mipmapping ?
r u using detail textures ?
and last 1 r u using any texture compression ?
k was just curious was taking a gander at ur screens
if u care to answer id appreciate it
Alright, Jamie, I'll give that you've put together a nice attempt at salvaging this.
However, the forums reveal that this "game" is run by a foul-mouthed dev with a serious temper, not to mention offering a "lifetime free account" for Runescape gold is about the antithesis of professional.
I was hoping "paid beta" was just an overly optimistic and short-sighted move on the part of the dev team, but it's obviously worse than that. At very best, this is a well-meaning project influenced by Runescape, in an attempt to create something better, albeit trying to advance far too fast. At worst, it's inspired by a worse part of Runescape, a bunch of kids scamming everyone they can to get as rich as they can.
Since you were recruiting friends from school to pay for this, I can only hope for your sake that it's the former. If you want to prove that there's something to this game worthwhile, and that what you have is even worth calling an alpha with some original content, as well as non-template coding, I'll be open to listen.
I can still tell you this. Even a full beta of games like ROSE just before release aren't worth normal $10/month fees, let alone twice that. Donations are nice, but when they're compulsory, it's a paid game. A paid game should be well past beta stages, let alone alpha stages.
Looking at those screenshots, I can fathom several things.
1. No level of detail/mipmapping.
2. Simple tile texture blending. Looks like it's just a simple gradient from one tile to another.
3. No shadows or specular lighting.
4. No post-processing effects such as bloom or HDR.
5. Simple directional lights only.
Ok, some of these are a bit much to ask for, such as real-time shadows and HDR (especially since currently only the Source engine supports it). But a lot of other stuff can be done to improve the look of the game. One big one is tile blending. Change the blend type so it's not just a simple gradient. A good example would be Guild Wars. Look at the terrain and study how they used many variations in textures and blended them using a splotch pattern. Another good thing to improve on is the lighting. Make it more dynamic, even if you can't give a building real-time shadows, you can still give it shading and different luminosity values to accentuate the shape.
The biggest thing that should be worked on now though is variation in textures and the tile blending issue. Simply changing these 2 can make the difference between an amateur-looking game and one that looks somewhat professional.
Nubbins, if you actually knew what you were saying instead of just throwing out catch phrases you saw somewhere, you could easily answer these questions yourself.
1. Most likely DirectX since few games use OpenGL anymore.
2. Doesn't look like there's a mipmap, the graphics detail is very simple using bilinear filtering most likely.
3. Detail textures can be put into 2 categories: bump map/normal map and mipmapping. The first one is simply whether objects have a bump map/normal map applied to it to make 2D textures look 3D. The second is the amount of detail that you see when you get in really close to an object. The screenshots obviously show neither of these 2 being used.
4. Texture compression doesn't matter when you're dealing with small textures, which the screenshots show.
No offense, but if you can't do certain things with the graphics yourself, then your game will go nowhere. Pre-done things will only get you so far. Go to college, get some experience in it.. take some art classes even.
A friend and I recently started up our own gaming company. He has worked with 3D studio for years, and knows many different programming languages. He's going to school to further his knowledge right now, and I'm planning on going next fall for knowledge on servers and the basics of various programming languages to lessen his load of work.
Honestly, you can get a good start, and can learn how to do things, but if you're ONLY using pre-done textures/graphics/models, you'll go nowhere. It will just be another cookie cutter game with nothing that stands out.
Also, starting with an MMO isn't the way to go. After you learn more about what you're doing, create a smaller scale, single player game. Get it published. Get some income from that before you move onto a larger project like an MMO, which will literally require hundreds of thousands, if not millions depending on your scale. It's a much harder task than you're realizing I think.
You also need to think of legal implications of your developing mmorpg. If you charge people 20 bucks a month to beta the game, then I assume you will refund all monies to all people if the game is halted and trashed.
Also, having a forum administrator by the name of thehacker11 doesn't instill confidence in users from the outside world wanting to try out the game. It actually instills a sense of wrong doing or shady practices which is exactly I DONT want if I will be spending 20 bucks a month for a beta. Because it screams vaporware.
Hiring a lawyer, obtaining a producer, taking some advanced classes, and changing that forum name are all steps you need to take if you are going to charge people for this game.
Good luck with it.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Wow Sheista, gaming company, sounds tough, but great if you got the know-ho, something id love to do. Was gonna start a web design business with my mate. I have the IT degree, he has the Business/marketing degree, so perfect match lol. Still think it might be on the table, the job scene is crap atm, i swear unemployed figures in UK are ALOT larger than they let you think.
Good thing nowadays is you can use the internet for distribution without need for publisher. In my case, ill probably draw up a business plan with my mate and do some project management magic and the bank will give me a business loan, however im gonna plan WAY ahead of time before i even think about putting it together, cos i dont wanna be in a situation where i cant deliver whats promised - lol shame game companies dont think like that
Well, with our current financial situation, we're both going to work other jobs to keep our finances. Two man teams aren't likely to work very fast on projects such as this. (Though as I suggested to the OP, we're also planning on starting off with a single player/multiplayer optional game to start off with) After all, nothing looks better for a company than a previously published (and hopefully popular) game. Just look at Project Offset. Three man team made up up former S2 employees (the company that made Savage) Took them a while to get the product this far, and they had financial support from others. Right now, they're just waiting on investors/publishers to take interest in the game. They actually were the reason we had hope in our own company being successful. If a three man team can do it, I don't see why a two man team can't.
Also, if I were you I would definitely go for it. There's nothing greater than being your own boss, and doing something that you love.
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Ok, so many questions, so little time so im answering from what I remember.
So far all of you are bashing the graphics, this game is revolved on gameplay, with btter graphics then some games, its a nice change from 2d games... Ok, so: It's dirext X, and again, those screenies are old and outdated and were just like complete practice. And I said, I will be buying custom models, I am willing to pay as many thousands of dollars as I need to do this, you havnt seen any of the graphics yet so just please no more discussion about them.
About it being based on runescape, well thats not true. Our forum users allways compare it saying its beter than runescape its not us saying it. Also, wtf are you talkign about coming from a place thats scammming in runescape? We would never ever scam anyone, and if your talking about: fagex.net, sythe.org, kaitnieks.com, than you must be joking. If you attempt to scam in these places, then you may notice your computer will be bombed by the next day... It isnt tolarated, and any runescape fans out there should thank us. Without our cheating forums in runescape, runescape would be dead, dont try to deny it you don't know the half of it. Because of us, is why they have weekly updates. They must do it every single week. Honestly, jegex are liers. Have you seen there little announcement on our private servers? They said they steal passwords and dont work. Lol! Thats lying! Recently the private server has been released, everyone has the source code lots add in there own features, and they all run in java(sandbox protected), and come with the source code so you can see there is nothing to steal passwords. Jagex is so desperate that they had to lie to you all on their site. We are not the bad guys, because that those communities do not lie, scam or invade your privacy like jagex does, again dont deny it, you don't know the half of it.
About thehacker11, obviosuly you don't know what the term "Hack" refer's to. It means to script. The orginal term of hacker is someone who programs and scripts things. People say he's immature, but you don't know anything what's going on with him, I'm not going to say why. Things will get btter though.
About refering people at school to support server? Wtf is that? So far not a single one of my friends has paid anything. Apollo, and tyler1880 have never seen me in my life, and darkelite isnt really an admin, he just did some things for us so we made him junior admin. We have good times at those forums, they love seeing the game develop. I know you think it's going to be terrible, but I must say, I used to be like that on devmaster.net forums, I'd bash everything until I saw it. So, like we said, 6 months is a lot of time so far, and we will not be quiting. If you think i'm going to stop making this, and waste my 6 months, then your crazy. We not a quitter, I wasnt raised that way, and again with the graphics, I told you, I'm buying all my models custom made, no need for me to have to model them, but if I ever need to model something, I am perfectly capable of it.
I didn't mean to sound rude in this post, but when you don't have any idea about it, you shouldn't just bash and flame it. Just wait till it's released, then we'll have something to talk about, and you can continue either bashing it if it's not good, or you can apologize if it's good.
Might I add, it's not a 2 man team. I'd say we'll be going through like 5-10 differnt modellers for custom made models, and I know where I'll be going for musicans(kevin macleod or something like that)
Thanks
edit* here is an example of our textures, you said they are not good when your close, but I don't think that this is too bad, but again this is about gameplay not graphics. Grahpics are just supposed to be enough to look 3dish, so that odler machines can play(thats how many games got so famous) and its a nice rest from runescape/other 2d games.
edit2* Might I add, please stop bashing the price. There will be free worlds, and a p2p world(5-6 bucks a month) SO stop saying that there are other games that are 15 a month, who cares about them. So far no one has complained about the beta price right now, they all thinks it's fair seeing as they also like ebing part of it.
edit3 lol: Ranma13, thanks for the tip, I guess I can see what your saying, it will definitly look more apealing. I was plannign to do this but I guess I forgot to add in differnt patterns and stuff like that.
Heh, I got banned from the forums by that Hacker guy for telling him to brush up on his PR skills. If you guys can't take constructive criticism, then to hell with your game. If someone has a hothead like that, they shouldn't have that much power, enough said.
But by all means, if you insist he is a great guy, then good luck with your game. You just lost my sympathy card though.
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Hahaha, oh man.. Jamie, you fail it. You fail it miserably.
Several million in Runescape gold for a lifetime account. That right there kills any pretense of professionalism. A pyramid scheme referral system, trying to get more people in a paid beta. Claiming that your circle "protects" Runescape and "bombs" computers that try to scam. Laughable.
Jamie, I played Runescape for years. They went from two brothers who made a few games to a major MMORPG. They've had the experience. Private servers are hardly secure, and for every honest one out there, there's ten that are either scams or just incredibly corrupt.
Caling oneself a "hacker" has connotations that should be considered. Face it, if you have a bad tempered admin who calls himself a "hacker", people are going to be wary. It doesn't matter what's going on with his personal life, if he can't either restrain himself or find someone to be the public face, he doesn't get respect. Tough little fact of life.
If you manage to make something of this, good for you. However, your main admin is a PR nightmare. In my gentle provocation of you, offering an open high road, you've opted to just become defensive. As well, you have to face this fact. If you're recruiting people, ANY price for a paid beta is going to be looked upon with contempt. Even if you charged $5/month, it'd still get a lot of flak simply because it looks like a mix of desperate fundraising and impatience. There's a certain level of public face you need to show in order to be successful, and you simply haven't shown that.
As a constructive counterbalance to this lecture, I'll give you a few suggestions.
Graphics- Don't fret too much about raw quality. Just make sure it doesn't look like it was template or came out of an easy generating program. That's why you have an art guy on board, to create this stuff originally.
Gameplay- You know what your basic aim is, but make sure you have something to set you apart from the other MMOs out there. Number crunching skills and new monsters to fight just don't cut it anymore. Lots of original quests with exploration, combat, and interaction are a good idea, something I'm sure you know as an obvious Runescape player. Create your own world through exploration and quests involving player interaction. Plus, smoothing out movement is helpful. There's plenty of ways to do it, but the more natural it feels to navigate, the better. Storm Riders Online is my personal favorite example, they offer a free trial if you want to see how it feels.
Public Relations- You need someone with a smooth tongue who's skilled at making the good sound great and the bad sound unimportant. I've done this for smaller online games run by friends, it's really a vital role. The best PR on MMOs is rarely done by a dev team. Seriously, if you don't want major trouble, get a PR guy somewhere.
Even if you make a good product, that doesn't mean it's going to go over well. Much like a chain, you're only as strong as the weakest link. If you can take this criticism and learn something from it, you're on the right path. If you think I'm just being hard on you and flaming, then you have a difficult road ahead.
One word for this game : Vaporware
worse... Vaporware²
Oh the drama
Also I think promoting "hacks" is against the forum rules. Not gonna comment on "they patch because we hack" other than
"We have crappy graphics because older machines need to handle it" is just a poor excuse. Games with good cooding have lots of options (smaller textures, draw distance, fog etc) that can be used instead of only making crap textures/graphics. (Since you are using direct x that should not be a problem).
A monthly fee is not a donation (seriously why do I need to type this, nobody believes the "donation" excuse anyway).