Originally posted by Defect Originally posted by Dinion It's true the game is way more developed for people who have 6+ months worth of SP. Sounds to me though that you didn't even give the game an entire day, and you did 1 mission where you didn't even bother to read the instructions correctly. You could have mined or did more courier quests to get the money for a better frigate, you were still in the noob frigate if I'm not mistaken, which people tend to get out of within like 2-3 hours after finishing the tutorial, hell I was in a cruiser on my 3rd day playing. You could have also joined a player corp, they usaully give out "Starter Funds" to new players. You can also patrol astroid belts in .8 or .7 space, they spawn really easy NPCs, my drone could solo one. Agents are very easy to find, you go to your character info, you find a faction you have good standings with, you right click on that faction and select owner info, go to agents tab and there you go a whole list of every agent for that faction. As for me, I am 2 months old, I just got into an Apocalypse Battleship. Would YOU give any merit to a review from a guy who spent 4 or 5 hours playtime with the game? I know I wouldn't.I am going to have to call you a straight up liar. Cruiser in 3 days? Bullshit. You wouldn't have near the funds or skills for that. Battleship in 2 months? Bullshit again. I have been playing about 6 months and dont have the cash nor skills for a battleship yet. And it took about 2 months before I got out of the newb ship.
2 month before you got out of the noob ship?
You can get out of the noob ship in less then a week. So you are also talking bullshit or you just didnt know what you where doing.
Im playing it for 9 months now and i still cant fly BSs. But i dont want to do so. Got the skill since like 3 months ago, but i prefer cruisers. I spezialiced in EW. And my BB is everything i need for pvp. And since 3rd month of play or so, you can start pvping perfectly. Even shorter. Some guys in my corp, with less than 1 month playing, even helped us in a war flying little and fast frigates. And without their help, some times we couldnt have killed them.
Originally posted by ScarletMoon And leave if u dont like it , EVE wasnt a game for any 1. I'd say this game req a lil ... mature
<rolls eyes> He already left, because he didn't like it. You are right, EVE isn't a game for everyone (I assume that is what you were attempting to say). As for maturity? The OP displayed a great deal more maturity in his well-written post than your "And leave if u dont like it" reply. I may not agree with him, but there is no need to reply in such a snotty, and dare I say "immature" manner. <shrug>
I've been playing for about a month and I was wondering if you could actually not fly BS's and still be successful. I really want to stick with frigs and cruisers, but so many people fly BS's. I'd prefer specializing, but can you really do it? (PS my in-game name is Engar Anduve, if I'm at war with you, no offense , the corp I'm with and alliance are at war with I think 4 other alliances right now )
Anyway thanks for any advice on this. I figure my best bet is to specialize.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Well I'm better than all of you! I've been playing for 3 hours and have 10 battleships, 12 cruisers, 16 stations, 8 planets and 12 Corps! So there! I'm the best, ya that's right, me! Look at me! I'm sooooo good...please, everyone gets whatever they get at there own pace. The real winner is the one having the most fun doing it.
I agree. I was with EVE online from the start for a year. I loved the game and found it fun but I had to leave. About a year later I decided to try it out agian because I had friends there. Now bear in mind, I sold my account so I had to start from scratch. I absolutely hated it. Perhaps being a vet turned noob was why I hated it but it was very frustrating to start again. They had actualy changed certain trade skills and such so that you had to level many basic skills in order to access markets that in the beggining you could do by default. I definitely reccomend, if you have a long time character but need a break- don't get rid of it. Eve is excellent but unlike other games, starting over is not fun at all no matter what race you decide to play. Time is the ultimate currency in EVE due to the Skill system which does favor the older over the younger.
I loved EVE.. till i had to travel. Even so, i played for a while and got alot of reading done. The one major flaw in EVE is the huge amount of wasted time in getting from one place to another. It is the best framework for a MMORPG i have seen. That said, its a great game to play if you have two pcs.. and can play another game while you wait on the insanely long travel times. It should not take me 15 minutes to complete a combat, and 30 to collect the loot. This game is visually beautiful and has the best commerce ever.. but my god what a time sync...
I agree with you when it comes to collecting loot, (loot drones are in the works, or a tractor beam to bring the loot to you btw) but when it comes to travel time, I dont think there's anyway to change the time sync when it comes to travel without completely screwing up the pvp system. A lot of the fun and tenseness in 0.0 space is either getting away, catching up, or hiding in a system. The time sync is just too real I think is the problem.
But to me, travel in any other game isn't any better, the worlds are just smaller. Imagine a game on foot that had some 20000 square miles to walk around. The travel would be ridiculus. Even with griffon rides or dragon rides or whatever else kind of rides you have, it would still take hours upon hours to travel around.
Games this big like EVE and any that come out that are as big require the player to localize.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
I'm wondering if you would find 4 pages on this topic if it were posted on DAoC, AO or WoW...
I downloaded the game 3 days ago to test it out, I'm a 4 year veteran of AO and was looking for a change. Though a total noob to Eve, it has a suprising resemblence to a strategic board game from a while back called Star Fleet Battles (Geez I just dated myself didn't I).
A number of the posters on this thread have called the learning curve steep, and I heartily agree But who wants to ski on a flat slope?! I did the tutorial, got a wee bit of cash, re-equipped and started to hunt... About 8-10 hours later I upgraded to a Destroyer and I'm luvin it. Luckily I hooked up with a nice guy early on who was a one-month veteran (hehe!) to coach me on the basics.
Obviously it won't suit all game-styles, so if you prefer a flat slope, try cross-country skiing.... or WoW
I'm a noob and I agree. The skill system sucks, imo. Traveling is horrific. Change those 2, and I think we have a lot better game on our hands. There are definately some good points about EO. You can be any class, which is awesome. Umm, there are probably more... I hope. It reminds me of my most favorite game: Uncharted Waters.
I just got finished with the tutorial. OMG this is boring. I'm sure if you get into it there might be some fun in there some where but not for me. Took over 2 hours just to do the tutorial and then all the waiting. Nah not my cup of tea.
before they made the tutrial the way it is now, CCP got a lot of stick from people saying the tutorial was nowhere near helpful enough, and that it should explain everything it can right at the start, so they gave you what you want, so make your minds up.
the skill system and travel system is perfectly fine the way it is, its just some people think they deserve everything handed to them on a plate from the get-go.
on the most part, the game is not based on solo play, at all. everything good in the game is done as a group, thats why everything revolves around corporations and alliances.
can a tier 1 frigate take out a battleship solo? no.
can 2 tier 1 frigates take out a battleship working together? yes.
you dont need every skill in the game to be uber, just you needs a bbasic skill set and to do what youre told.
oh, and as for the dork that said it was impossible to get into a cruiser in 3 days, you can create a character from scratch with frigate level 4, ready for training of cruiser 1. you can get a cruiser in a matter of hours. also, i was in a battleship in just under a month of playing, which i bought myself. the greatest thing in eve is the Market, because its so much like a real market, where 95% of everything is player made and sold, you can manipulate it like you could in RL. im just over a year old now and i have just under 10 billion in my wallet. how? buy low, sell high. i made 100 mil in my first month buying underpriced Bellicose cruisers (because noone wanted them, as they were useless) for way below build price, melting them down, and getting the minerals back worth more than the ship. the market is FILLED with stuff like that, you just have to look for it.
the bet way to go about making money, is to plan your route, and specialize. the worst characters in game are characters that try to do everything and end up having a low amount of skill points in every category.
if you find a good way to make money, or someone tells you a good way to make money, build yourself up to it.
of course, like me, all the carebear stuff is boring so i just fly around all day on either my main character and kill SA/.5. (or rather not SA anymore cos they retracted) all day, or roam around on my pirate -10 character and kill random people, or ransom them. whatever
Originally posted by irish97 I just got finished with the tutorial. OMG this is boring. I'm sure if you get into it there might be some fun in there some where but not for me. Took over 2 hours just to do the tutorial and then all the waiting. Nah not my cup of tea.
That's because there's so much to cover in EVE. In other MMORPGs, the tutorials are short and covers pretty much everything you'll be doing until you hit the level cap. EVE's tutorial barely scrapes the surface of what's possible in-game.
Originally posted by Defect Originally posted by Dinion It's true the game is way more developed for people who have 6+ months worth of SP. Sounds to me though that you didn't even give the game an entire day, and you did 1 mission where you didn't even bother to read the instructions correctly. You could have mined or did more courier quests to get the money for a better frigate, you were still in the noob frigate if I'm not mistaken, which people tend to get out of within like 2-3 hours after finishing the tutorial, hell I was in a cruiser on my 3rd day playing. You could have also joined a player corp, they usaully give out "Starter Funds" to new players. You can also patrol astroid belts in .8 or .7 space, they spawn really easy NPCs, my drone could solo one. Agents are very easy to find, you go to your character info, you find a faction you have good standings with, you right click on that faction and select owner info, go to agents tab and there you go a whole list of every agent for that faction. As for me, I am 2 months old, I just got into an Apocalypse Battleship. Would YOU give any merit to a review from a guy who spent 4 or 5 hours playtime with the game? I know I wouldn't.I am going to have to call you a straight up liar. Cruiser in 3 days? Bullshit. You wouldn't have near the funds or skills for that. Battleship in 2 months? Bullshit again. I have been playing about 6 months and dont have the cash nor skills for a battleship yet. And it took about 2 months before I got out of the newb ship.
WRONG! I was in a Cruiser in under 10 hours.
Step 1) Char creation: Take all the training options that give you Starship Command and Frigate skills. This will get you to Frigates, 4 Step 2) Go through entire tutorial. At completion get your spiffy implant. Sell on market for 1.5 million credits. Step 3) Use the 1.5 million credits from the sale of your item pluss the other about 500k credits and buy your cruiser. Sometime during your tutorial train CRUISERS to 1 (you can do that because you already have frigates 4) Step 4) Go outfit your cruiser with level 1 missiles / guns
Step 5) Have fun with your cruiser.
You MAY want to buy a better frigate in between but I personally went straight from the noob mobile into an Osprey. (Caldari).
But... all that said
I too found EVE to be very boring. I was in the beta from phase 2 till release. For FREE it's a fantastic game It's not worth $12.95 a month to me, however. Since beta I have played 3 free trials and recently (back in July) bought the game and played for 2.5 months.
The game is very repetitive and the time delays the OP points out are very real and VERY frustrating for a new player. YES there are things you can do to reduce the tedium.... but they only help so much. Yes it helps to get into a good corp.
Bottom line: EVE is a very well done game if you like a life simulator type experience.
If you're looking for a game that will take you through a storyline and help you progress along the way then EVE is not for you. EVE does little to no hand-holding and has one of the steepest learning curves of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Personally I liked EVE but don't have the patience needed for it. It's very much a game that requires patience and perseverance. It's got a lot to offer those who like to drive their own content. For those who prefer to have more content handed to them up front it's a bit daunting to downright boring.
I liked EVE.... just not enough to fork out $12.95 a month for it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Ranma13 <snip> 3. Run there. 4. Wait until I get there. 5. Talk to quest guy and give him the cargo. 6. Find out where my quest giver is. 7. Run back to him again. 8. Collect my reward.
You see how it's incredibly similar? I actually prefer EVE's system of autopilot because I can visit a webpage or do something else while my ship goes to its destination. This is compared to holding down the run key and moving around obstacles while looking at the same scenery over and over again in other MMORPGs. I'd rather be doing something else while my ship/character goes to the place of interest rather than endure the mundane run to get there.
Agree with everything you said except this section Ranma
In a traditional MMORPG during my 'run there' I typically find lots of fun things to do. Pick up additional quests. Kill a few critters along the way for some extra Coin and maybe even a weapon or two. Talk to folks I meet along the way. Stop at that interesting building to see what's inside. Etc.
In EVE, however: Hit autopilot Sit around bored for 10 minutes Blow up target (or deliver goods) (if blow up target was option, fly around for 5-10 minutes gathering loot, longer if it's more than 4 or 5 targets I had to blow up) Get followup mission----- oh wait... EVE doesn't have followup missions...
Personally I really like EVE. I just don't really like it enough to fork out $12.95 a month for it. The game is nice, it's got great features. But it leaves me bored most of the time.
Personally I don't WANT to play a game that has such large dead times that I have time to go surf the web while I'm playing.
But as to the rest of your assessment: I agree.
The OP got in over their head but, I also agree with the OP: The tutorial is great. But for a TRUE newbie who just dl'd the game for the first time and hopped in trying to play? The game is VERY daunting and very unfriendly to learn. The new tutorial helps (I've used it) and is very well done. But for a "REAL" newbie.... it doesn't go far enough. It doesn't explain that you should work on learning skills to speed up your training. It doesn't explain why it's a bad idea to go to a level 1 quality 18 agent if you're still in an un-upgraded noobmobile. It doesn't do much to explain how the market works or why you should NOT use "Avoid pod killing sectors" as an option on your map.
The character creation process is horrible. Other than the ability to really create a unique face. The skill selection at character creation is EXTREMELY complicated and the 'help' (lol) is pathetic. If someone is a true noob going through that process they can severely limit their options as a new player, at least till they train a bunch of skills up.
So I do agree with you, but I sympathize with the OP. Having done the trial 3 times now and played in both beta and retail I can see how this game could really turn off a true noob. It's very complex and the tutorial, while detailed, doesn't explain the concepts well.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Dinion Originally posted by Defect I am going to have to call you a straight up liar. Cruiser in 3 days? Bullshit. You wouldn't have near the funds or skills for that. Battleship in 2 months? Bullshit again. I have been playing about 6 months and dont have the cash nor skills for a battleship yet. And it took about 2 months before I got out of the newb ship.
In-game name is felio, go ahead and convo me and come to orien and you can see my Apocalypse for yourself. I started the game with frigates 4(yes custom made character you can get frigates to 4) so I was 1 hour away from the cruiser skill, I got a loan of 2mil from my starter corp and made another 2mil on my own to get a vexor.
Felio! Its Chronus...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by checkthis500 I agree with you when it comes to collecting loot, (loot drones are in the works, or a tractor beam to bring the loot to you btw) but when it comes to travel time, I dont think there's anyway to change the time sync when it comes to travel without completely screwing up the pvp system. A lot of the fun and tenseness in 0.0 space is either getting away, catching up, or hiding in a system. The time sync is just too real I think is the problem. But to me, travel in any other game isn't any better, the worlds are just smaller. Imagine a game on foot that had some 20000 square miles to walk around. The travel would be ridiculus. Even with griffon rides or dragon rides or whatever else kind of rides you have, it would still take hours upon hours to travel around. Games this big like EVE and any that come out that are as big require the player to localize.
Hmm keep us informed on this. If/when they speed up looting that could be enough to get me to come back. Looting is my #1 gripe about EVE. I understand the travel times. They're necessary because of the PVP aspect. But looting is just downright PAINFUL because of them. If they implement loot drones or tractor beams to bring loot to you from a reasonable distance that could be all it takes to bring me back to EVE.
Ask anyone who played with me. My big gripe was the 30-40 minute time it took to loot after a big mission.
Minor gripe: lack of variety in missions and almost no real 'storyline' content.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I don't get it. I tried it last night, first time ever, stupid mistake on my part, I should have waited until the holidays, or at least the weekend. Now I am going to be very tired at work today and utterly unproductive because I am infatuated with this game.
Some of the complaints here amuse me. I read this thread before trying it and find most of the statements were not refelected in my own gameplay.
I read the player guide, available at Eve Online, not the whole thing, just the part on getting started. Surprise, the manual contained a guide to character creation. I know the fellow at the top is not illiterate because his post seemed coherent.
Made my character and launched into the tutorial. I am given to understand that by simply closing the tutorial window I could have skipped all that. At times, I was tempted and at times, I nearly closed it by accident. However, the game protects you by prompting you twice when you accidentally click to close the tutorial. Frankly, for a first timer, I cannot imagine why you would.
Yes, I am still getting used to the interface, but at least I have a sense of where to find stuff. As for money with which to upgrade your ship, the tutorial takes complete care of you. I just did the tutorial, nothing more, nothing less and I had enough money to upgrade my lasers and I followed the prompts to go onto another mission, straight out of the tutorial, spoon fed to me. Within 2 hours of finishing the tutorial, and only doing missions (with a couple side stops to pick up stuff cheap I found exploring the market), I owned a shiny new Condor class frigate, armed with 1 laser cannon and one pulse laser cannon, both with different charges to optimize short to 8k or so range combat, and 60,000 more ISKs.
It's not a fortune by any means, but so far I have only been following the tutorial and the prompts given me by the agent the tutorial left me in the hands of.
As for the ship, I found the average price was close to 50,000 ISK, I searched the market for the region every time I jumped to a new system and though I had to track to the side 2 jumps, I picked one up for 25,000 ISKs. I also picked up several learning manuals that were way under the market averages.
As for looting, I haven't done too much with the loot I have got, but I don't see the problem. There's a container, takes maybe a minute to fly into range, you got your cargo hold open and you click open cargo on the container and drag and drop. It did not feel to be taking an especially long time to me and I got some decent stuff, like a Mining laser 1, that will go to some functionary other than myself because I picked a pure fighter off the line, and some armour hardeners and capacitor boosters.
I have no freaking idea how to use these things but I am sure it will come to me when it is not 2:30 am.
Travel times? Okay, it takes a minute to dock, you warp to within 15 k then have to fly into range to dock. I imagine this is by design allowing for time to be assaulted or whatever before getting into a safe position. Other than that, when they announced the server downtime in 15 minutes, I still felt comfortable I could jump 5 systems and get back to the base I have chosen for myself, and I did, and retrofitted my ship a bit and even closed the game before they forced me off. You are aware that you can warp almost any location you would have run into so early in the game yes? And if you use autopilot it actually takes care of all of that for you? The tutorial teaches you about ten ways you can set a destination or waypoint, so I am not sure how you missed that.
I am not sure what happened to this fellow, but frankly nearly every complaint this gentleman had was directly answered in the tutorial. I would have been annoyed if the tutorial was self contained and left you with nothing but in fact it gives you a leg up right at the beginning, feeding you pirates that are impossible not to beat if you actually bought the shield capactitor your ship prompted you to buy before you even left the starter station.
Anyway, I am pretty happy with every thing, obviously. I am sorry your experience was not enjoyable.
As for me, the only thing that annoyed me so far was the tutorials unwillingness to move along if I was not, for example, in the second space training zone or wherever. I can imagine not everyone would like it. I loved Privateer, Wing Commander and all those other games, but I've also enjoyed Master of Orion and all those long wonderful strategy games. This seems to mesh those two a bit. Perhaps in the end there won't be a lot of end game content that I will enjoy (like WoW) but the journey should be fun. At this newbie stage I didn't have much that would train over the course of the night and my time at work, except for Gunnery 5, so by the time I get home I will have that at least. Nice training system.
It's all good for me, I look forward to playing it.
If you get past the early stages, you will be fine. I love the game.
To above poster : don't worry about end game content. There is none.
You will make your own "end game content" the minute you join a decent corp.
The longer you play the better it gets, opposite of almost every other MMO.
It does have drawbacks : loot collecting is definitly one of them. At higher level missions you can spend 15-20 mins killing what you have to, and anything up to 45 mins collecting loot. It does annoy you after a time. The start missions when your ina fast moving frigate are no worries. Your only picking up a few cans. Later your in a very slow moving BS, and you have to pick up so much loot you may even have to get a hauler to come get it. However, this is being addressed with the introduction of drones to loot or some sort of tractor beam. Thank god.
I cannot disagree more with peple moaning about the travel times. They are what makes the game. They force you to localise. They create localised markets and prices. They drive regional and world market prices. If you lose travel times, then it won't be such a huge game and the market will collapse. Space is meant to be big, not a 2minute hourney from one end of the galaxy to another, and the danger faced while making these travels can also be both fun, nerve-wracking, and dangerous.
Travel times in other MMO are just as boring and can be just as long. The fact you have to hold down a button to run doesn't make it in less of a problem. Anyway just use it as time to read up some info, check the market, sort your mail, kick the dog, chat to your corpmates,read the net, make love to the wife (40+ jump that one ). Personally I do a lot of things and don't feel they are a waste of time. Having eve-radio.com going also helps.
Again, Viperswhip gave a perfect, simple example. By travelling an extra 2 jumps he bought a ship 50% cheaper than if he didn't travel. This is partly what drives the market.
It also means when you have to travel 8 jumps to save 2 million on a ship, and that ship is in low sec space, again you way up the risks ~ do you spend the time travelling to save 2mill? You have to goto low sec. You may die on your way in or on your way out. This means as you want to go into low sec the ebil piwates get a chance at your ass. Or do you stay put and spend the extra 2mill?
Do you trade items from one region to the other, often making 20+ jumps through dabgerous low sec space, but making in excess of 40mill profit for those 20 jumps? Or do you play safe and make 1 mill by making 2 or 3 jumps?
Do you get in a real fast, cheap expendable frigate to make a run through low sec, giving you a better chance to live, and even if you die it will cost you less than 70k to replace fully, next to nothing with insurance,or do you take a much slower but tougher ship like a BS and try and fight your way through, but at a much slower pace? If you die in your batleship you can kiss goodbye to 100mill easily. Etc Etc Etc.
None of these choices are incorrect. They are all part of the freedom of choice in EvE. It is up to you. They do all however have to be weighed up against travel times. Get it yet?
The travel times are an integral part of EvE. If you "fix" them as some of the, shall we say, less experienced or even those who do not understand or have not even thought about the ramifications of reducing these travel times, you will break the game on so many levels it will ruin it across the board.
Even so, there are many ways to minimise them. Tech2 AB, MWD, and most important instajumps to name just a few. In EvE there are often several ways to do something, and for every way you can do something there is a counter. It is the most complex game of paper,rock, scissors I have ever played
why are these people keep on saying that they get bored starting from the tutorial. its true that u really need to spend time to finish the tutorial but it is essential for u to start the actual game as easy as it was then after that everything is fine ur not a noob anymore when ur in the game u feel like u know everything about EVE, no need to ask questions to those veterans. u will really look horrible as a first time player when u dont understand the tutorial.actually im a new player and i didnt feel horrible in fact someone already ask me to join his corp ...by the way im iveria ingame. see u there guys. enjoy
dont u dare start playing MMORPG unless u want to be hooked
Originally posted by dopefish18 why are these people keep on saying that they get bored starting from the tutorial.
Because people, like me, want instant action. We want to be able to go out and kill something within the first few minutes of starting the game, not watch a huge back story or go through a particularly long and arduous tutorial. It has nothing to do with attention span or 'idiotic' people who just want to grind. It has to do with first impressions. People base their opinions on whether they like something, whether it be a game or a person, within the first 10 minutes of first contact with it.
Although I understand how a long tutorial might be frustrating, I also want to point out that EVE Online is worth the time to go through the entire tutorial for.
Although I understand how a long tutorial might be frustrating, I also want to point out that EVE Online is worth the time to go through the entire tutorial for.
yeah ur right, its worth the time though the tutorial will took u 2 to 3 hours to finish but after that u will enjoy the actual game or sure.
dont u dare start playing MMORPG unless u want to be hooked
Eve is one of those games I have running in the background.
Maybe I am watching a film on TV or playing quake on another computer, surfing the internet making babies. It's like chess by mail, or civilisation, every once in a while i stop in and make my next move.
The chatroom options are pretty good, and you can always find people to natter with. God knows there is a lot of time to do this in game.
I had problems with the tutorial too. But I soon got to grips with the game. Leaving cargo you have bought in the hangar is pretty annoying and happens all to often. It might at least alert you that you are leaving it there before you are allowed to exit the station.
the pace of this game is extraordinarily slow. It doesn't hold my complete attention while I am playing it. It's the kind of game you might play if your computer is in your living room, along with your spouse, the TV and maybe somekids. You will always have enough time to respond to them and participate in their activities. Very low input. but beautiful to look at and relaxing. No stress gaming.
Comments
2 month before you got out of the noob ship?
You can get out of the noob ship in less then a week. So you are also talking bullshit or you just didnt know what you where doing.
cheers!
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Im playing it for 9 months now and i still cant fly BSs.
But i dont want to do so. Got the skill since like 3 months ago, but i prefer cruisers. I spezialiced in EW. And my BB is everything i need for pvp. And since 3rd month of play or so, you can start pvping perfectly. Even shorter. Some guys in my corp, with less than 1 month playing, even helped us in a war flying little and fast frigates. And without their help, some times we couldnt have killed them.
I've been playing for about a month and I was wondering if you could actually not fly BS's and still be successful. I really want to stick with frigs and cruisers, but so many people fly BS's. I'd prefer specializing, but can you really do it? (PS my in-game name is Engar Anduve, if I'm at war with you, no offense
, the corp I'm with and alliance are at war with I think 4 other alliances right now 
)
Anyway thanks for any advice on this. I figure my best bet is to specialize.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Well I'm better than all of you! I've been playing for 3 hours and have 10 battleships, 12 cruisers, 16 stations, 8 planets and 12 Corps! So there! I'm the best, ya that's right, me! Look at me! I'm sooooo good...please, everyone gets whatever they get at there own pace. The real winner is the one having the most fun doing it.
k
I agree with you when it comes to collecting loot, (loot drones are in the works, or a tractor beam to bring the loot to you btw) but when it comes to travel time, I dont think there's anyway to change the time sync when it comes to travel without completely screwing up the pvp system. A lot of the fun and tenseness in 0.0 space is either getting away, catching up, or hiding in a system. The time sync is just too real I think is the problem.
But to me, travel in any other game isn't any better, the worlds are just smaller. Imagine a game on foot that had some 20000 square miles to walk around. The travel would be ridiculus. Even with griffon rides or dragon rides or whatever else kind of rides you have, it would still take hours upon hours to travel around.
Games this big like EVE and any that come out that are as big require the player to localize.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
wow, 4 pages on this topic already...
I'm wondering if you would find 4 pages on this topic if it were posted on DAoC, AO or WoW...
I downloaded the game 3 days ago to test it out, I'm a 4 year veteran of AO and was looking for a change.
Though a total noob to Eve, it has a suprising resemblence to a strategic board game from a while back called Star Fleet Battles (Geez I just dated myself didn't I).
A number of the posters on this thread have called the learning curve steep, and I heartily agree
But who wants to ski on a flat slope?! I did the tutorial, got a wee bit of cash, re-equipped and started to hunt...
About 8-10 hours later I upgraded to a Destroyer and I'm luvin it. Luckily I hooked up with a nice guy early on who was a one-month veteran (hehe!) to coach me on the basics.
Obviously it won't suit all game-styles, so if you prefer a flat slope, try cross-country skiing.... or WoW
Holy thread revival, Batman!
Remove the skill system and long travel times and you remove what makes EVE GOOD.
And there are no classes in EVE. Stop comparing it to a typical MMORPG where you've seen this, done that in less than a month.
before they made the tutrial the way it is now, CCP got a lot of stick from people saying the tutorial was nowhere near helpful enough, and that it should explain everything it can right at the start, so they gave you what you want, so make your minds up.
the skill system and travel system is perfectly fine the way it is, its just some people think they deserve everything handed to them on a plate from the get-go.
on the most part, the game is not based on solo play, at all. everything good in the game is done as a group, thats why everything revolves around corporations and alliances.
can a tier 1 frigate take out a battleship solo? no.
can 2 tier 1 frigates take out a battleship working together? yes.
you dont need every skill in the game to be uber, just you needs a bbasic skill set and to do what youre told.
oh, and as for the dork that said it was impossible to get into a cruiser in 3 days, you can create a character from scratch with frigate level 4, ready for training of cruiser 1. you can get a cruiser in a matter of hours.
also, i was in a battleship in just under a month of playing, which i bought myself. the greatest thing in eve is the Market, because its so much like a real market, where 95% of everything is player made and sold, you can manipulate it like you could in RL. im just over a year old now and i have just under 10 billion in my wallet. how? buy low, sell high. i made 100 mil in my first month buying underpriced Bellicose cruisers (because noone wanted them, as they were useless) for way below build price, melting them down, and getting the minerals back worth more than the ship. the market is FILLED with stuff like that, you just have to look for it.
the bet way to go about making money, is to plan your route, and specialize. the worst characters in game are characters that try to do everything and end up having a low amount of skill points in every category.
if you find a good way to make money, or someone tells you a good way to make money, build yourself up to it.
of course, like me, all the carebear stuff is boring so i just fly around all day on either my main character and kill SA/.5. (or rather not SA anymore cos they retracted) all day, or roam around on my pirate -10 character and kill random people, or ransom them. whatever
WRONG!
I was in a Cruiser in under 10 hours.
Step 1) Char creation: Take all the training options that give you Starship Command and Frigate skills. This will get you to Frigates, 4
Step 2) Go through entire tutorial. At completion get your spiffy implant. Sell on market for 1.5 million credits.
Step 3) Use the 1.5 million credits from the sale of your item pluss the other about 500k credits and buy your cruiser. Sometime during your tutorial train CRUISERS to 1 (you can do that because you already have frigates 4)
Step 4) Go outfit your cruiser with level 1 missiles / guns
Step 5) Have fun with your cruiser.
You MAY want to buy a better frigate in between but I personally went straight from the noob mobile into an Osprey. (Caldari).
But... all that said
I too found EVE to be very boring. I was in the beta from phase 2 till release. For FREE it's a fantastic game
It's not worth $12.95 a month to me, however. Since beta I have played 3 free trials and recently (back in July) bought the game and played for 2.5 months.
The game is very repetitive and the time delays the OP points out are very real and VERY frustrating for a new player. YES there are things you can do to reduce the tedium.... but they only help so much. Yes it helps to get into a good corp.
Bottom line:
EVE is a very well done game if you like a life simulator type experience.
If you're looking for a game that will take you through a storyline and help you progress along the way then EVE is not for you. EVE does little to no hand-holding and has one of the steepest learning curves of any MMORPG I've ever played.
Personally I liked EVE but don't have the patience needed for it. It's very much a game that requires patience and perseverance. It's got a lot to offer those who like to drive their own content. For those who prefer to have more content handed to them up front it's a bit daunting to downright boring.
I liked EVE.... just not enough to fork out $12.95 a month for it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Agree with everything you said except this section Ranma
In a traditional MMORPG during my 'run there' I typically find lots of fun things to do. Pick up additional quests. Kill a few critters along the way for some extra Coin and maybe even a weapon or two. Talk to folks I meet along the way. Stop at that interesting building to see what's inside. Etc.
In EVE, however:
Hit autopilot
Sit around bored for 10 minutes
Blow up target (or deliver goods)
(if blow up target was option, fly around for 5-10 minutes gathering loot, longer if it's more than 4 or 5 targets I had to blow up)
Get followup mission----- oh wait... EVE doesn't have followup missions...
Personally I really like EVE. I just don't really like it enough to fork out $12.95 a month for it. The game is nice, it's got great features. But it leaves me bored most of the time.
Personally I don't WANT to play a game that has such large dead times that I have time to go surf the web while I'm playing.
But as to the rest of your assessment: I agree.
The OP got in over their head but, I also agree with the OP:
The tutorial is great. But for a TRUE newbie who just dl'd the game for the first time and hopped in trying to play? The game is VERY daunting and very unfriendly to learn. The new tutorial helps (I've used it) and is very well done. But for a "REAL" newbie.... it doesn't go far enough. It doesn't explain that you should work on learning skills to speed up your training. It doesn't explain why it's a bad idea to go to a level 1 quality 18 agent if you're still in an un-upgraded noobmobile. It doesn't do much to explain how the market works or why you should NOT use "Avoid pod killing sectors" as an option on your map.
The character creation process is horrible. Other than the ability to really create a unique face. The skill selection at character creation is EXTREMELY complicated and the 'help' (lol) is pathetic. If someone is a true noob going through that process they can severely limit their options as a new player, at least till they train a bunch of skills up.
So I do agree with you, but I sympathize with the OP. Having done the trial 3 times now and played in both beta and retail I can see how this game could really turn off a true noob. It's very complex and the tutorial, while detailed, doesn't explain the concepts well.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Felio! Its Chronus...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Hmm keep us informed on this. If/when they speed up looting that could be enough to get me to come back. Looting is my #1 gripe about EVE. I understand the travel times. They're necessary because of the PVP aspect. But looting is just downright PAINFUL because of them. If they implement loot drones or tractor beams to bring loot to you from a reasonable distance that could be all it takes to bring me back to EVE.
Ask anyone who played with me. My big gripe was the 30-40 minute time it took to loot after a big mission.
Minor gripe: lack of variety in missions and almost no real 'storyline' content.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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I don't get it. I tried it last night, first time ever, stupid mistake on my part, I should have waited until the holidays, or at least the weekend. Now I am going to be very tired at work today and utterly unproductive because I am infatuated with this game.
Some of the complaints here amuse me. I read this thread before trying it and find most of the statements were not refelected in my own gameplay.
I read the player guide, available at Eve Online, not the whole thing, just the part on getting started. Surprise, the manual contained a guide to character creation. I know the fellow at the top is not illiterate because his post seemed coherent.
Made my character and launched into the tutorial. I am given to understand that by simply closing the tutorial window I could have skipped all that. At times, I was tempted and at times, I nearly closed it by accident. However, the game protects you by prompting you twice when you accidentally click to close the tutorial. Frankly, for a first timer, I cannot imagine why you would.
Yes, I am still getting used to the interface, but at least I have a sense of where to find stuff. As for money with which to upgrade your ship, the tutorial takes complete care of you. I just did the tutorial, nothing more, nothing less and I had enough money to upgrade my lasers and I followed the prompts to go onto another mission, straight out of the tutorial, spoon fed to me. Within 2 hours of finishing the tutorial, and only doing missions (with a couple side stops to pick up stuff cheap I found exploring the market), I owned a shiny new Condor class frigate, armed with 1 laser cannon and one pulse laser cannon, both with different charges to optimize short to 8k or so range combat, and 60,000 more ISKs.
It's not a fortune by any means, but so far I have only been following the tutorial and the prompts given me by the agent the tutorial left me in the hands of.
As for the ship, I found the average price was close to 50,000 ISK, I searched the market for the region every time I jumped to a new system and though I had to track to the side 2 jumps, I picked one up for 25,000 ISKs. I also picked up several learning manuals that were way under the market averages.
As for looting, I haven't done too much with the loot I have got, but I don't see the problem. There's a container, takes maybe a minute to fly into range, you got your cargo hold open and you click open cargo on the container and drag and drop. It did not feel to be taking an especially long time to me and I got some decent stuff, like a Mining laser 1, that will go to some functionary other than myself because I picked a pure fighter off the line, and some armour hardeners and capacitor boosters.
I have no freaking idea how to use these things but I am sure it will come to me when it is not 2:30 am.
Travel times? Okay, it takes a minute to dock, you warp to within 15 k then have to fly into range to dock. I imagine this is by design allowing for time to be assaulted or whatever before getting into a safe position. Other than that, when they announced the server downtime in 15 minutes, I still felt comfortable I could jump 5 systems and get back to the base I have chosen for myself, and I did, and retrofitted my ship a bit and even closed the game before they forced me off. You are aware that you can warp almost any location you would have run into so early in the game yes? And if you use autopilot it actually takes care of all of that for you? The tutorial teaches you about ten ways you can set a destination or waypoint, so I am not sure how you missed that.
I am not sure what happened to this fellow, but frankly nearly every complaint this gentleman had was directly answered in the tutorial. I would have been annoyed if the tutorial was self contained and left you with nothing but in fact it gives you a leg up right at the beginning, feeding you pirates that are impossible not to beat if you actually bought the shield capactitor your ship prompted you to buy before you even left the starter station.
Anyway, I am pretty happy with every thing, obviously. I am sorry your experience was not enjoyable.
As for me, the only thing that annoyed me so far was the tutorials unwillingness to move along if I was not, for example, in the second space training zone or wherever. I can imagine not everyone would like it. I loved Privateer, Wing Commander and all those other games, but I've also enjoyed Master of Orion and all those long wonderful strategy games. This seems to mesh those two a bit. Perhaps in the end there won't be a lot of end game content that I will enjoy (like WoW) but the journey should be fun. At this newbie stage I didn't have much that would train over the course of the night and my time at work, except for Gunnery 5, so by the time I get home I will have that at least. Nice training system.
It's all good for me, I look forward to playing it.
Welcome to EvE.
If you get past the early stages, you will be fine. I love the game.
To above poster : don't worry about end game content. There is none.
You will make your own "end game content" the minute you join a decent corp.
The longer you play the better it gets, opposite of almost every other MMO.
It does have drawbacks : loot collecting is definitly one of them. At higher level missions you can spend 15-20 mins killing what you have to, and anything up to 45 mins collecting loot. It does annoy you after a time. The start missions when your ina fast moving frigate are no worries. Your only picking up a few cans. Later your in a very slow moving BS, and you have to pick up so much loot you may even have to get a hauler to come get it. However, this is being addressed with the introduction of drones to loot or some sort of tractor beam. Thank god.
I cannot disagree more with peple moaning about the travel times. They are what makes the game. They force you to localise. They create localised markets and prices. They drive regional and world market prices. If you lose travel times, then it won't be such a huge game and the market will collapse. Space is meant to be big, not a 2minute hourney from one end of the galaxy to another, and the danger faced while making these travels can also be both fun, nerve-wracking, and dangerous.
Travel times in other MMO are just as boring and can be just as long. The fact you have to hold down a button to run doesn't make it in less of a problem. Anyway just use it as time to read up some info, check the market, sort your mail, kick the dog, chat to your corpmates,read the net, make love to the wife (40+ jump that one
). Personally I do a lot of things and don't feel they are a waste of time. Having eve-radio.com going also helps.
Again, Viperswhip gave a perfect, simple example. By travelling an extra 2 jumps he bought a ship 50% cheaper than if he didn't travel. This is partly what drives the market.
It also means when you have to travel 8 jumps to save 2 million on a ship, and that ship is in low sec space, again you way up the risks ~ do you spend the time travelling to save 2mill? You have to goto low sec. You may die on your way in or on your way out. This means as you want to go into low sec the ebil piwates get a chance at your ass. Or do you stay put and spend the extra 2mill?
Do you trade items from one region to the other, often making 20+ jumps through dabgerous low sec space, but making in excess of 40mill profit for those 20 jumps? Or do you play safe and make 1 mill by making 2 or 3 jumps?
Do you get in a real fast, cheap expendable frigate to make a run through low sec, giving you a better chance to live, and even if you die it will cost you less than 70k to replace fully, next to nothing with insurance,or do you take a much slower but tougher ship like a BS and try and fight your way through, but at a much slower pace? If you die in your batleship you can kiss goodbye to 100mill easily. Etc Etc Etc.
None of these choices are incorrect. They are all part of the freedom of choice in EvE. It is up to you. They do all however have to be weighed up against travel times. Get it yet?
The travel times are an integral part of EvE. If you "fix" them as some of the, shall we say, less experienced or even those who do not understand or have not even thought about the ramifications of reducing these travel times, you will break the game on so many levels it will ruin it across the board.
Even so, there are many ways to minimise them. Tech2 AB, MWD, and most important instajumps to name just a few. In EvE there are often several ways to do something, and for every way you can do something there is a counter. It is the most complex game of paper,rock, scissors I have ever played
dont u dare start playing MMORPG unless u want to be hooked
Because people, like me, want instant action. We want to be able to go out and kill something within the first few minutes of starting the game, not watch a huge back story or go through a particularly long and arduous tutorial. It has nothing to do with attention span or 'idiotic' people who just want to grind. It has to do with first impressions. People base their opinions on whether they like something, whether it be a game or a person, within the first 10 minutes of first contact with it.
Although I understand how a long tutorial might be frustrating, I also want to point out that EVE Online is worth the time to go through the entire tutorial for.
dont u dare start playing MMORPG unless u want to be hooked
Eve is one of those games I have running in the background.
Maybe I am watching a film on TV or playing quake on another computer, surfing the internet making babies. It's like chess by mail, or civilisation, every once in a while i stop in and make my next move.
The chatroom options are pretty good, and you can always find people to natter with. God knows there is a lot of time to do this in game.
I had problems with the tutorial too. But I soon got to grips with the game. Leaving cargo you have bought in the hangar is pretty annoying and happens all to often. It might at least alert you that you are leaving it there before you are allowed to exit the station.
the pace of this game is extraordinarily slow. It doesn't hold my complete attention while I am playing it. It's the kind of game you might play if your computer is in your living room, along with your spouse, the TV and maybe somekids. You will always have enough time to respond to them and participate in their activities. Very low input. but beautiful to look at and relaxing. No stress gaming.