1) Virtually unlimited character advancement. DAoC's RR was brilliant in that it allowed you, for most intents and purposes, to never reach max level. It was however, quite expnential in nature, meaning that the first ranks were fast and easy to get and the high level ranks took forever. This should stay. It gave the sence of never being finished with your character, of continuing growth. That fact alone really kept me coming back.
2) Non-cartoony graphics. I can't stand the graphical style of most new fantisity MMOs (WoW and clones) these days. It breaks all immersion. Shoot for somthing artistially similar to Age of Conan. Also please don't make high level female armor panties and a bra, they should be in full plate just like the men. Again, has to do with immersion.
3) Seige Combat should be designed to make use of melee classes. There was a very long time in DAoC where my warrior was unable to make any meaningful contribution to a siege, it was the casters that did nearly all the combat. This changed when my warrior could climb walls, so make sure those kind of mechanics are in place at launch.
4) Resource supply lines. I know the resource mechanics are not fully hashed out yet, but I think it would be really cool if you could raid a caravan containing rare minerals that were just mined.
5) Ability for smaller, well cordinated groups to be able to control the massive zergs.
EDIT:
Because I forgot about how awesome this part was...
6) The return of stat caps and the template. What was billiant about DAoC is that there were as many different templates as there were players. It wasn't about getting a full set of armor from dungeon X. It was about digging around with what you had, or could get, and making the best template that you could. A bit like EVE in some respects.
Originally posted by rogue187 just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?
DAoC current live version is basically not DAoC.
Anyway, gotta agree with a couple of the above posters. A camelot herald like it used to be would be awesome, and there should definitely not be buff bots. Hell, there shouldn't be classes with no purpose other than buffing other people so they can have all the fun to begin with.
Originally posted by rogue187 just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?
DAoC current live version is basically not DAoC.
Couldn't agree more. To me the last iteration that resembed DAoC was the Classic servers; may they rest in peace. Loved playing my Valky on that server; tried to but couldn't really get into it when they merged Classic back into ToA servers.
was wondering...ppl love it so i dl'd it gotta say...as a wow-baby, was uninpressed, dont play wow anymore..finding myself drawn to sandboxish games more, but like i said in another thread, sounds like df:uw....never played but the masss hate keeps away, guess another era i suppose....cheers
My only "Must have"... and this is a big one for me.
Don't ever leave areas abandoned. Please always keep the world alive. I can't stand to log into an MMO a year after it's launched and the first area you walk into is abandoned (training areas excluded). I want to live in a growing and thriving world! All zones or parts of the world need to be active and alive from day one until the day the servers shut down.
I guess I am just ready to live in a world again, not just pass through it.
My only "Must have"... and this is a big one for me.
Don't ever leave areas abandoned. Please always keep the world alive. I can't stand to log into an MMO a year after it's launched and the first area you walk into is abandoned (training areas excluded). I want to live in a growing and thriving world! All zones or parts of the world need to be active and alive from day one until the day the servers shut down.
I guess I am just ready to live in a world again, not just pass through it.
I think the focus being RvR will help with this. Because there isn't going to be zones divided up by levels. So low lvl zones would be abandoned in most PvE games a year after it launched. I don't think that will be the case with an RvR only game, all zones will probably have objectives / territory to fight over.
My only "Must have"... and this is a big one for me.
Don't ever leave areas abandoned. Please always keep the world alive. I can't stand to log into an MMO a year after it's launched and the first area you walk into is abandoned (training areas excluded). I want to live in a growing and thriving world! All zones or parts of the world need to be active and alive from day one until the day the servers shut down.
I guess I am just ready to live in a world again, not just pass through it.
I´m pretty sure you can count on that. There will be a living and breathing world. Being able to build some form for constructions outside the safe-areas alone will offer some variety. And since most of the world will be open, there won´t be boring, static instances either.
Originally posted by rogue187 was wondering...ppl love it so i dl'd it gotta say...as a wow-baby, was uninpressed, dont play wow anymore..finding myself drawn to sandboxish games more, but like i said in another thread, sounds like df:uw....never played but the masss hate keeps away, guess another era i suppose....cheers
Is there a reason why you are in almost all CU threads down talking the game ?
Did Mark Jacobs do something to insult you in some form ?
Does the sucess of CU ruin another game you are yearning to play (Origins of Malu ?)
I was hoping this thread would keep to what its original intent was... those who want this game to come out and had suggestions for its developers to read. What you have posted here is far from what most of the repliers have posted, i would ask that you refrain from further derailing of this thread.
I'd just like to preface this with the fact that I understand that this game is not intended to be DAOC2. However, it IS drawing on (obviously) the most successful elements of DAOC...and RVR is going to be the focus.
With that in mind, I'd really love this game to promote the same kind of Full Group roaming RVR that made DAOC so enjoyable. I sincerely, genuinley hope that CU will not promote a zerg fest and instead embrace the full group playstyle that the skilled guilds in DAOC enjoyed. I want the CU developers to make sure that a full group of skilled players roaming in the "frontiers" (if there will be any) for action in CU will be able to have a fighting chance when outnumbered to a -point-. Its one of the things that made DAOC special to me, knowing that my guild group knew what they were doing and we would be able to fight off the more numerious but less able enemy
The zergfest thing really never did anything for me, its easy to just run around in a mass swarm and kill stuff, much more fun to do it in a small guildgroup!
Finally, I know there will not be any "realm ranks" in CU...however, i'd been keen to see some real, meaningful reward for running a successful guild in this game. Whether that be titles, extra abilities or whatever. Its another thing that made fighting in RVR in DAOC enjoyable, to see that the great guilds were recognized for their achievements.
With that in mind, I'd really love this game to promote the same kind of Full Group roaming RVR that made DAOC so enjoyable. I sincerely, genuinley hope that CU will not promote a zerg fest and instead embrace the full group playstyle that the skilled guilds in DAOC enjoyed. I want the CU developers to make sure that a full group of skilled players roaming in the "frontiers" (if there will be any) for action in CU will be able to have a fighting chance when outnumbered to a -point-. Its one of the things that made DAOC special to me, knowing that my guild group knew what they were doing and we would be able to fight off the more numerious but less able enemy
The zergfest thing really never did anything for me, its easy to just run around in a mass swarm and kill stuff, much more fun to do it in a small guildgroup!
Lore.
To me, catering to the "small group" crowd screams of CC getting out of hand. That was one of the major problems that Daoc dealt with partly by adding realm abilities that would break out of those. Instead, I think a better system would be to encourage more strategy and tactics in massive zerg battles. That's when an MMO really shines. Massive zerg on massive zerg would be the ideal, imho. Who wants nothing but roaming 8 man bands when you can get that experience in any instanced battleground like you would find in WoW? If I were in an 8 man group, I would actually welcome the danger and suspense of zergs being out there. My philosophy is that if you get crushed by a zerg, suck it up. Don't cry to momma about the unfairness of it all.
With that in mind, I'd really love this game to promote the same kind of Full Group roaming RVR that made DAOC so enjoyable. I sincerely, genuinley hope that CU will not promote a zerg fest and instead embrace the full group playstyle that the skilled guilds in DAOC enjoyed. I want the CU developers to make sure that a full group of skilled players roaming in the "frontiers" (if there will be any) for action in CU will be able to have a fighting chance when outnumbered to a -point-. Its one of the things that made DAOC special to me, knowing that my guild group knew what they were doing and we would be able to fight off the more numerious but less able enemy
The zergfest thing really never did anything for me, its easy to just run around in a mass swarm and kill stuff, much more fun to do it in a small guildgroup!
Lore.
To me, catering to the "small group" crowd screams of CC getting out of hand. That was one of the major problems that Daoc dealt with partly by adding realm abilities that would break out of those. Instead, I think a better system would be to encourage more strategy and tactics in massive zerg battles. That's when an MMO really shines. Massive zerg on massive zerg would be the ideal, imho. Who wants nothing but roaming 8 man bands when you can get that experience in any instanced battleground like you would find in WoW? If I were in an 8 man group, I would actually welcome the danger and suspense of zergs being out there. My philosophy is that if you get crushed by a zerg, suck it up. Don't cry to momma about it.
No need for CC to get out of hand, and theres nothing wrong with CC breakers. Purge/det was fine....zerg vs zerg by its very nature is not skill based, its just about numbers. Also, the suspense of zergs being out there is exactly what you had in DAOC...its the opportunity to have a chance to kill some of them before you get steamrolled by them which made it fun. Im not suggesting any small group should be able to be invincible.
If you want to just name MMO's that already cater to small groups then i'll say, if you want zerg vs zerg, you have WAR. Instanced small group battles in WOW battlegrounds really is not what im talking about. Its not even slightly comparable to what you had in DAOC.
Anyway, this is just my suggestion and i know im not alone in wanting this sort of gameplay in CU.
I don't think DAoC actively encouragedor discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.
Yet they both existed.
If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.
Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.
Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to doanything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!
As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.
I don't think DAoC actively encouragedor discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.
Yet they both existed.
If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.
Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.
Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to doanything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!
As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.
Hopefully that's the case with CU. I just think that its possible to enable either playstyle without "encouraging" it. Its the potential that matters, and its not like you need to have rediculously overpowered CC for it. Long,yes...but have means to break it.
It's been a long time since i have seen a game where someone could take a quarterstaff and whip your ass with it. I know there has been some enchanters and other classes in games but they always felt more like mages. Friars always felt more like a rogue type char (dexterous and evasive) without stealth but some magical supplement instead. It was by far my most favorite class i have ever played in any game. I thank DAOC for those memories every time i think about MMOs. In fact, anytime i look at a new MMO, that's the first thing i look for. How to build a char similar to that. It's what drew me away from my shadowblade i loved so dear. I got my ass handed to me enough times by a friar. If you can't beat em, roll one up! LOL
Originally posted by rogue187 just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?
I play it still. Every day and it's as fun as it ever was.
Mark, just for fun. If your Kickstarter project happened to reach something like say 20 mil. How would this impact the content and design? Silly question I know, but would be fun to read your answer.
My list
* Lots of classes like in DAoC.
* Spellcrafting with embue points.
* Realm Abilities, (I know you said no Realm Ranks but hey, this is MY list)
* A Theurgist class
* Let guilds upload emblems for their guild like in Aion.
I don't think DAoC actively encouragedor discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.
Yet they both existed.
If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.
Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.
Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to doanything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!
As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.
I have nothing against 8-man rollers. I'm like you in that you should play however you like. I just hate the 8-man rollers who cry like little babies when they get rolled because it's "unfair" that the zerg had such an advantage in numbers over them. My fear is that if you get enough of these crybabies making a stink, the developers get swayed into making stupid mistakes that somehow bolster the small groups to give them a better advantage over the zergs. There should be no artificial boosters to put small groups on an equal footing with large groups, as far as I'm concerned. That's just a recipe for FAIL.
As for my use of the word "encouragement", you took me out of context. I just meant that there needs to be some sort of system to encourage STRATEGY & TACTICS with zergs since "the path of least resistance" seems to be randomly throwing oneself into the fight with no thought of strategy in zergs. The system can most certainly be done in a better way.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Bearprobe
Originally posted by rogue187 just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?
I play it still. Every day and it's as fun as it ever was.
Mark, just for fun. If your Kickstarter project happened to reach something like say 20 mil. How would this impact the content and design? Silly question I know, but would be fun to read your answer.
My list
* Lots of classes like in DAoC.
* Spellcrafting with embue points.
* Realm Abilities, (I know you said no Realm Ranks but hey, this is MY list)
* A Theurgist class
* Let guilds upload emblems for their guild like in Aion.
Okay, this one made me smile. Before I answer that question, you do know that the reason that there aren't realm abilities is because all abilities are, in essence, realm abilities because everything is RvR based. It would be silly of me to call them realm abilities (besides the whole "they are called that in Dark Age") because the way players are going to get them is different that Dark Age and well, because they are the abilities you get for doing RvR anyway.
Besides that, hmm. First, I would push for more races, rather than classes at first. Races, while different from each other, will have less of an impact on game balance than new classes. Second, I'd add one of our stretch goals (I'll talk about this another day) into the main development pipeline. Third, I'd hire all the best voice actors in the world! (no, JK). Third, i would definitely add some additional crafting to the game. Next, I'd probably look at expanding the shattered world even more for each realm to play in (not adding Pve, this too will be explained later). Finally, then I'd look at adding some additional classes though I'd much rather keep adding classes slowly post release so as not to screw up the balance.
However, before I spent a single extra dime for additional development, I would make sure to keep plenty of reserve in the CSE bank account until the game launched just in case we ended up being late, since that's never happened to any MMORPG.
1. Serious investigation into the oceanic problem (i.e. high ping 250-300+ ).
Whether the solution be an oceanic server (single server considering the smaller community), working together with a proxy service, or careful consideration regarding gameplay mechanics, to allow the game to be both playable AND enjoyable.
2. Near true in game time.
I'm not fond of 24 hours, but 16 hour days would be perfect. It would be a dream to login at 6pm each day and be able to experience morning, afternoon and evening depending on the day. This would allow guilds to co-ordinate night raids without having to stay up till 3am.
3. Lots of points of interest or 'objectives' to fight over.
Not only this, but holding multiple points of interest should be meaningful. I want to see incentives for the zerg to split off into smaller groups. For a lack of a better example, WoW has objective battlegrounds where you need to hold multiple objectives to win (thus splitting off into smaller groups) and it is nigh impossible to hold them all.
4. I don't want to feel safe all the time.
When i'm out in the wild, I want to feel like not being careful will get me killed. I want to have to pay attention to my surroundings and take heed of player warnings.
5. I want to feel the weight behind my swings.
I want combat to feel good and my heavy strikes to feel heavy. Better yet, I want to take off limbs, explode bodies with fire or freeze my foes and shatter them into tiny shards (I'm not a violent person - honest!).
If there is collision detection, I would hope for pushing mechanics.
The bigger the brute, the harder they push. Also incorporating everyone else's weight to the equation.
Pushing was actually a very HUGE part of ancient and medieval warfare. When hannibal flanked the romans, one of the reasons why it is so tactically compromising, is the pushing involved. When your force is engulfed and pushed in from all directions, you literally have no room to move. At all. Not even to raise your sword. That day the romans were packed in like sardines, seeing rank after rank helplessly massacred, waiting for their turn to die.
What was I saying? Oh yes, If collision detection goes in, I would hope pushing is involved. If an elf caster tries to block a troll warrior, LOL his pansy ass gets to eat pavement.
But we can think of cool shit all day long. This would just be a nice to have. Five million dollars should be spent on fine tuning the essentials, plus marketing unfortunately. Good news is that the people you need to market this kind of game to will inevitably hear about it through sites like this and other gaming news feeds. Steam advertising would be really good too.
This is the first and usually only aspect of an mmo that everyone in my guild will judge before deciding to throw their hat in for a game.
I don't care if the combat system is more akin to DAoC or more resembles GW2 or WoW. Whatever route CSE takes, the combat has to be smooth and crisp. Abilities need to fire exactly when pressed, targeting should be accurate and player positions should not be guesswork. There are too many options in gaming nowadays if combat feels clunky or disjointed. No matter how long I played and loved DAoC, it really does feel clunky nowdays compared to other mmos that are out there. If you praise WoW for one thing, it is that the responsiveness during combat is spot on.
2. Unfettered Character Movement
I dislike abilities that lock your character into place for the most part. This is mainly because, normally, those abilities cannot be canceled by movement after being fired. If an ability roots the character in place, I believe you should be able to cancel it if you decide to move. I hate being locked in place when, barring any enemy CC, I can easily stop the action. This coincides with a responsive combat system and being able to have full control of any avatar that you are playing. This does not mean this game needs instas or spellcasting when moving .. just no locking in place.
3. Clean Intuitive UI
Nothing can back me out of a new game faster than a clunky UI that looks like I could have thrown it together in VB.Net with a 2 hour crash course in MS Paint. The UI is a portal to your game and should be polished, clean, and with a bit of texture. A fullness if you will. These things coincide with being able to open and close various windows with ease and without lag.
I agree with a lot of what people have said. Some of it I don't. I have been playing multiplayer online games since my MUD days. I have a fondness for DAoC and WoW if you can imagine that. I am not a curmudgeon that requires speed 6, aoe army-stopping mez, and perma interrupts from a grey con pet. But yes, a return to a more old school game with sandboxish elements that requires a bit of social networking .. count me in. Crafters being able to make a name for themselves as well as guilds .. sign me up. Rolling up on a lone Brehon and smashing his head in with 7 other people. Yes .. take my money.
1. Sandbox style crafting, housing, property ownership, player made communities, and some sort of system in place for a very robust and active player ran economy.
What's all that mean?
When building and decorating your house with items, the number of options you have should be absolutely staggering. You should have more styles to choose from and more choices of items to put in your home than you know what to do with. Same goes with the actual construction of your place. Same goes with where you can build. No segregated neighborhoods (like DAOC), no instanced housing (EQ2). Players can sell things from their home, from a community market if they build one, or from a central big marketplace (where they go drop off the items to be placed for sale and other players have to go there to buy items, like a Wal Mart). As for "sandbox style crafting," this is a tough one and would require much more space to write out.
2. If the world has NPC's, then they need to be living and breathing and moving around as if they are living a life.
What's this mean?
You walk into a town and go into the weapons store. Since you are the only customer in there, the shop owner had been sitting down eating something. He gets up to go stand behind the counter. He's available to help you if you need it. if you just stand in his store for 30 minutes afk, eventually he will get tired of waiting on you to do something and so he will continue his meal. When he's done, he goes about his chores - cleaning the weapons, etc. Maybe he goes to the bathroom real quick. His kids watch the store while he is away and can help you. If you are in a little village, shops close at dark. If you need to buy/sell things during darkness hours, don't fret. One store opens only at night and covers all the basic needs. Meanwhile, most of the other NPCs in town are sleeping. It is only night 1/4 of the time so this is no big deal if you need to wait to buy something from a merchant who is sleeping. Maybe even some would be willing to wake up to make a sale if you knock on their door.
This is what creates immersion. NPCs have things to do each day just like real people and they do them. Maybe once every 7 days, most of the NPCs in a village gather to play tether ball or something in a big tournament. How hard would it be to code this stuff? Get creative and make us a living, breathing world. NPC's which stand in one place 24/7 are just silly. Every NPC in a village should have a place to sleep, a place to eat, a place to work, and a place they go to unwind.
3. No stealth (invisibility) ability.
If the ability is in the game, then make it have a short active timer, and a long reuse timer. Ideally the game would have no stealther classes whatsoever.
4. Combat mechanics like DAOC's.
Combat mechanics that encourage 8 manning (or 7 manning, 6 manning, whatever # the group limit may be), and which let small groups be able to fight large groups and win due to superior tactics and strategy.
5. Bring back that feeling.
The adrenaline rush from engaging in an 8 man fight. The edge of my chair excitement in a keep take. Maybe these feelings are lost forever, but maybe they aren't. No other game has come close to making me feel that way. If CU can being them back then CU might be my mmo of choice for a very long time.
1. Random Dragon events in pvp. Every realm has to fight it..and itself a few times a month/week. Total choas, total fun.
2. Crafters have to have the material to craft, they can't trade or buy it. What you harvest, is what you craft with. No more crafters standing in one spot all day.
Imagine you and your guild have managed to hold back trough a relentless assault. Or launch an attack with biblical epic outcome.
As reward for your bravery , you are summoned by the King. Who then bestows on you the Cross of Bravery.
As reward for your rebuilding skills, Cross of Mason.
Etc ...
Example B:
Monthly event where all are summoned for a feast together with the king. Where he holds a speech and adress those
who have done a good job protecting our domain or adding to our domain. The more people are at the feast the more the realm gets inspired/buffed. Offcourse during this time , the realm is open for grabs if you leave it unattended.
Example C:
The King rides with you into battle, inspiring all who ride with him. ( This can be triggered if the majority of guild leaders demand for an intervention by the King for a certain battle , once a week).
Example
See example C. During this battle the faeces hit the fan, your King is brought to fall. Your sole mission now is to get him to safety first , by escorting him very slowly back to a friendly keep while hordes of your enemies try to stop you.
Example E:
See example D. You fail to escort your King to safety. He is taken by the enemy and held for ransom. This gives your realm a debuff , because well ... you are without a King. Money will be have to be brought to the table. And with money i mean a tremendous fee, wich will have to be raised by everyone of the realm. Once the money is paid your King is send back to you. And out of shame will not be able to execute Example C for a couple of weeks.
All previous stated examples are being executed by a developer/GM. So you dont get an NPC rimturd as King !
Comments
1) Virtually unlimited character advancement. DAoC's RR was brilliant in that it allowed you, for most intents and purposes, to never reach max level. It was however, quite expnential in nature, meaning that the first ranks were fast and easy to get and the high level ranks took forever. This should stay. It gave the sence of never being finished with your character, of continuing growth. That fact alone really kept me coming back.
2) Non-cartoony graphics. I can't stand the graphical style of most new fantisity MMOs (WoW and clones) these days. It breaks all immersion. Shoot for somthing artistially similar to Age of Conan. Also please don't make high level female armor panties and a bra, they should be in full plate just like the men. Again, has to do with immersion.
3) Seige Combat should be designed to make use of melee classes. There was a very long time in DAoC where my warrior was unable to make any meaningful contribution to a siege, it was the casters that did nearly all the combat. This changed when my warrior could climb walls, so make sure those kind of mechanics are in place at launch.
4) Resource supply lines. I know the resource mechanics are not fully hashed out yet, but I think it would be really cool if you could raid a caravan containing rare minerals that were just mined.
5) Ability for smaller, well cordinated groups to be able to control the massive zergs.
EDIT:
Because I forgot about how awesome this part was...
6) The return of stat caps and the template. What was billiant about DAoC is that there were as many different templates as there were players. It wasn't about getting a full set of armor from dungeon X. It was about digging around with what you had, or could get, and making the best template that you could. A bit like EVE in some respects.
DAoC current live version is basically not DAoC.
Anyway, gotta agree with a couple of the above posters. A camelot herald like it used to be would be awesome, and there should definitely not be buff bots. Hell, there shouldn't be classes with no purpose other than buffing other people so they can have all the fun to begin with.
Couldn't agree more. To me the last iteration that resembed DAoC was the Classic servers; may they rest in peace. Loved playing my Valky on that server; tried to but couldn't really get into it when they merged Classic back into ToA servers.
My only "Must have"... and this is a big one for me.
Don't ever leave areas abandoned. Please always keep the world alive. I can't stand to log into an MMO a year after it's launched and the first area you walk into is abandoned (training areas excluded). I want to live in a growing and thriving world! All zones or parts of the world need to be active and alive from day one until the day the servers shut down.
I guess I am just ready to live in a world again, not just pass through it.
I think the focus being RvR will help with this. Because there isn't going to be zones divided up by levels. So low lvl zones would be abandoned in most PvE games a year after it launched. I don't think that will be the case with an RvR only game, all zones will probably have objectives / territory to fight over.
my next query...what is this offering that ESO isn't ?
edit: ahhh maybe should be in another thread aye? soz
I´m pretty sure you can count on that. There will be a living and breathing world. Being able to build some form for constructions outside the safe-areas alone will offer some variety. And since most of the world will be open, there won´t be boring, static instances either.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
Is there a reason why you are in almost all CU threads down talking the game ?
Did Mark Jacobs do something to insult you in some form ?
Does the sucess of CU ruin another game you are yearning to play (Origins of Malu ?)
I was hoping this thread would keep to what its original intent was... those who want this game to come out and had suggestions for its developers to read. What you have posted here is far from what most of the repliers have posted, i would ask that you refrain from further derailing of this thread.
Lolipops !
I'd just like to preface this with the fact that I understand that this game is not intended to be DAOC2. However, it IS drawing on (obviously) the most successful elements of DAOC...and RVR is going to be the focus.
With that in mind, I'd really love this game to promote the same kind of Full Group roaming RVR that made DAOC so enjoyable. I sincerely, genuinley hope that CU will not promote a zerg fest and instead embrace the full group playstyle that the skilled guilds in DAOC enjoyed. I want the CU developers to make sure that a full group of skilled players roaming in the "frontiers" (if there will be any) for action in CU will be able to have a fighting chance when outnumbered to a -point-. Its one of the things that made DAOC special to me, knowing that my guild group knew what they were doing and we would be able to fight off the more numerious but less able enemy
The zergfest thing really never did anything for me, its easy to just run around in a mass swarm and kill stuff, much more fun to do it in a small guildgroup!
Finally, I know there will not be any "realm ranks" in CU...however, i'd been keen to see some real, meaningful reward for running a successful guild in this game. Whether that be titles, extra abilities or whatever. Its another thing that made fighting in RVR in DAOC enjoyable, to see that the great guilds were recognized for their achievements.
Lore.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
To me, catering to the "small group" crowd screams of CC getting out of hand. That was one of the major problems that Daoc dealt with partly by adding realm abilities that would break out of those. Instead, I think a better system would be to encourage more strategy and tactics in massive zerg battles. That's when an MMO really shines. Massive zerg on massive zerg would be the ideal, imho. Who wants nothing but roaming 8 man bands when you can get that experience in any instanced battleground like you would find in WoW? If I were in an 8 man group, I would actually welcome the danger and suspense of zergs being out there. My philosophy is that if you get crushed by a zerg, suck it up. Don't cry to momma about the unfairness of it all.
No need for CC to get out of hand, and theres nothing wrong with CC breakers. Purge/det was fine....zerg vs zerg by its very nature is not skill based, its just about numbers. Also, the suspense of zergs being out there is exactly what you had in DAOC...its the opportunity to have a chance to kill some of them before you get steamrolled by them which made it fun. Im not suggesting any small group should be able to be invincible.
If you want to just name MMO's that already cater to small groups then i'll say, if you want zerg vs zerg, you have WAR. Instanced small group battles in WOW battlegrounds really is not what im talking about. Its not even slightly comparable to what you had in DAOC.
Anyway, this is just my suggestion and i know im not alone in wanting this sort of gameplay in CU.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
I don't think DAoC actively encouraged or discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.
Yet they both existed.
If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.
Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.
Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to do anything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!
As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.
Hopefully that's the case with CU. I just think that its possible to enable either playstyle without "encouraging" it. Its the potential that matters, and its not like you need to have rediculously overpowered CC for it. Long,yes...but have means to break it.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
I do have one more to add...
Friars!
It's been a long time since i have seen a game where someone could take a quarterstaff and whip your ass with it. I know there has been some enchanters and other classes in games but they always felt more like mages. Friars always felt more like a rogue type char (dexterous and evasive) without stealth but some magical supplement instead. It was by far my most favorite class i have ever played in any game. I thank DAOC for those memories every time i think about MMOs. In fact, anytime i look at a new MMO, that's the first thing i look for. How to build a char similar to that. It's what drew me away from my shadowblade i loved so dear. I got my ass handed to me enough times by a friar. If you can't beat em, roll one up! LOL
I play it still. Every day and it's as fun as it ever was.
Mark, just for fun. If your Kickstarter project happened to reach something like say 20 mil.
How would this impact the content and design? 
Silly question I know, but would be fun to read your answer.
My list
* Lots of classes like in DAoC.
* Spellcrafting with embue points.
* Realm Abilities, (I know you said no Realm Ranks but hey, this is MY list)
* A Theurgist class
* Let guilds upload emblems for their guild like in Aion.
I have nothing against 8-man rollers. I'm like you in that you should play however you like. I just hate the 8-man rollers who cry like little babies when they get rolled because it's "unfair" that the zerg had such an advantage in numbers over them. My fear is that if you get enough of these crybabies making a stink, the developers get swayed into making stupid mistakes that somehow bolster the small groups to give them a better advantage over the zergs. There should be no artificial boosters to put small groups on an equal footing with large groups, as far as I'm concerned. That's just a recipe for FAIL.
As for my use of the word "encouragement", you took me out of context. I just meant that there needs to be some sort of system to encourage STRATEGY & TACTICS with zergs since "the path of least resistance" seems to be randomly throwing oneself into the fight with no thought of strategy in zergs. The system can most certainly be done in a better way.
Okay, this one made me smile. Before I answer that question, you do know that the reason that there aren't realm abilities is because all abilities are, in essence, realm abilities because everything is RvR based. It would be silly of me to call them realm abilities (besides the whole "they are called that in Dark Age") because the way players are going to get them is different that Dark Age and well, because they are the abilities you get for doing RvR anyway.
Besides that, hmm. First, I would push for more races, rather than classes at first. Races, while different from each other, will have less of an impact on game balance than new classes. Second, I'd add one of our stretch goals (I'll talk about this another day) into the main development pipeline. Third, I'd hire all the best voice actors in the world! (no, JK). Third, i would definitely add some additional crafting to the game. Next, I'd probably look at expanding the shattered world even more for each realm to play in (not adding Pve, this too will be explained later). Finally, then I'd look at adding some additional classes though I'd much rather keep adding classes slowly post release so as not to screw up the balance.
However, before I spent a single extra dime for additional development, I would make sure to keep plenty of reserve in the CSE bank account until the game launched just in case we ended up being late, since that's never happened to any MMORPG.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Top 5 must haves wish list:
1. Serious investigation into the oceanic problem (i.e. high ping 250-300+ ).
Whether the solution be an oceanic server (single server considering the smaller community), working together with a proxy service, or careful consideration regarding gameplay mechanics, to allow the game to be both playable AND enjoyable.
2. Near true in game time.
I'm not fond of 24 hours, but 16 hour days would be perfect. It would be a dream to login at 6pm each day and be able to experience morning, afternoon and evening depending on the day. This would allow guilds to co-ordinate night raids without having to stay up till 3am.
3. Lots of points of interest or 'objectives' to fight over.
Not only this, but holding multiple points of interest should be meaningful. I want to see incentives for the zerg to split off into smaller groups. For a lack of a better example, WoW has objective battlegrounds where you need to hold multiple objectives to win (thus splitting off into smaller groups) and it is nigh impossible to hold them all.
4. I don't want to feel safe all the time.
When i'm out in the wild, I want to feel like not being careful will get me killed. I want to have to pay attention to my surroundings and take heed of player warnings.
5. I want to feel the weight behind my swings.
I want combat to feel good and my heavy strikes to feel heavy. Better yet, I want to take off limbs, explode bodies with fire or freeze my foes and shatter them into tiny shards (I'm not a violent person - honest!).
Cheers,
If there is collision detection, I would hope for pushing mechanics.
The bigger the brute, the harder they push. Also incorporating everyone else's weight to the equation.
Pushing was actually a very HUGE part of ancient and medieval warfare. When hannibal flanked the romans, one of the reasons why it is so tactically compromising, is the pushing involved. When your force is engulfed and pushed in from all directions, you literally have no room to move. At all. Not even to raise your sword. That day the romans were packed in like sardines, seeing rank after rank helplessly massacred, waiting for their turn to die.
What was I saying? Oh yes, If collision detection goes in, I would hope pushing is involved. If an elf caster tries to block a troll warrior, LOL his pansy ass gets to eat pavement.
But we can think of cool shit all day long. This would just be a nice to have. Five million dollars should be spent on fine tuning the essentials, plus marketing unfortunately. Good news is that the people you need to market this kind of game to will inevitably hear about it through sites like this and other gaming news feeds. Steam advertising would be really good too.
What was I saying? I cant remember.
1. Responsive Combat
This is the first and usually only aspect of an mmo that everyone in my guild will judge before deciding to throw their hat in for a game.
I don't care if the combat system is more akin to DAoC or more resembles GW2 or WoW. Whatever route CSE takes, the combat has to be smooth and crisp. Abilities need to fire exactly when pressed, targeting should be accurate and player positions should not be guesswork. There are too many options in gaming nowadays if combat feels clunky or disjointed. No matter how long I played and loved DAoC, it really does feel clunky nowdays compared to other mmos that are out there. If you praise WoW for one thing, it is that the responsiveness during combat is spot on.
2. Unfettered Character Movement
I dislike abilities that lock your character into place for the most part. This is mainly because, normally, those abilities cannot be canceled by movement after being fired. If an ability roots the character in place, I believe you should be able to cancel it if you decide to move. I hate being locked in place when, barring any enemy CC, I can easily stop the action. This coincides with a responsive combat system and being able to have full control of any avatar that you are playing. This does not mean this game needs instas or spellcasting when moving .. just no locking in place.
3. Clean Intuitive UI
Nothing can back me out of a new game faster than a clunky UI that looks like I could have thrown it together in VB.Net with a 2 hour crash course in MS Paint. The UI is a portal to your game and should be polished, clean, and with a bit of texture. A fullness if you will. These things coincide with being able to open and close various windows with ease and without lag.
I agree with a lot of what people have said. Some of it I don't. I have been playing multiplayer online games since my MUD days. I have a fondness for DAoC and WoW if you can imagine that. I am not a curmudgeon that requires speed 6, aoe army-stopping mez, and perma interrupts from a grey con pet. But yes, a return to a more old school game with sandboxish elements that requires a bit of social networking .. count me in. Crafters being able to make a name for themselves as well as guilds .. sign me up. Rolling up on a lone Brehon and smashing his head in with 7 other people. Yes .. take my money.
My top 5 must-have or must-not-have list:
1. Sandbox style crafting, housing, property ownership, player made communities, and some sort of system in place for a very robust and active player ran economy.
What's all that mean?
When building and decorating your house with items, the number of options you have should be absolutely staggering. You should have more styles to choose from and more choices of items to put in your home than you know what to do with. Same goes with the actual construction of your place. Same goes with where you can build. No segregated neighborhoods (like DAOC), no instanced housing (EQ2). Players can sell things from their home, from a community market if they build one, or from a central big marketplace (where they go drop off the items to be placed for sale and other players have to go there to buy items, like a Wal Mart). As for "sandbox style crafting," this is a tough one and would require much more space to write out.
2. If the world has NPC's, then they need to be living and breathing and moving around as if they are living a life.
What's this mean?
You walk into a town and go into the weapons store. Since you are the only customer in there, the shop owner had been sitting down eating something. He gets up to go stand behind the counter. He's available to help you if you need it. if you just stand in his store for 30 minutes afk, eventually he will get tired of waiting on you to do something and so he will continue his meal. When he's done, he goes about his chores - cleaning the weapons, etc. Maybe he goes to the bathroom real quick. His kids watch the store while he is away and can help you. If you are in a little village, shops close at dark. If you need to buy/sell things during darkness hours, don't fret. One store opens only at night and covers all the basic needs. Meanwhile, most of the other NPCs in town are sleeping. It is only night 1/4 of the time so this is no big deal if you need to wait to buy something from a merchant who is sleeping. Maybe even some would be willing to wake up to make a sale if you knock on their door.
This is what creates immersion. NPCs have things to do each day just like real people and they do them. Maybe once every 7 days, most of the NPCs in a village gather to play tether ball or something in a big tournament. How hard would it be to code this stuff? Get creative and make us a living, breathing world. NPC's which stand in one place 24/7 are just silly. Every NPC in a village should have a place to sleep, a place to eat, a place to work, and a place they go to unwind.
3. No stealth (invisibility) ability.
If the ability is in the game, then make it have a short active timer, and a long reuse timer. Ideally the game would have no stealther classes whatsoever.
4. Combat mechanics like DAOC's.
Combat mechanics that encourage 8 manning (or 7 manning, 6 manning, whatever # the group limit may be), and which let small groups be able to fight large groups and win due to superior tactics and strategy.
5. Bring back that feeling.
The adrenaline rush from engaging in an 8 man fight. The edge of my chair excitement in a keep take. Maybe these feelings are lost forever, but maybe they aren't. No other game has come close to making me feel that way. If CU can being them back then CU might be my mmo of choice for a very long time.
1. Random Dragon events in pvp. Every realm has to fight it..and itself a few times a month/week.
Total choas, total fun.
2. Crafters have to have the material to craft, they can't trade or buy it. What you harvest, is what you craft with. No more crafters standing in one spot all day.
3. Guild controled keeps/areas.
4. DAOC weather system, rain like whoah or snow.
5. just do daoc combat system.
Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired
Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired
Interaction with your King/Leader.
Example A:
Imagine you and your guild have managed to hold back trough a relentless assault. Or launch an attack with biblical epic outcome.
As reward for your bravery , you are summoned by the King. Who then bestows on you the Cross of Bravery.
As reward for your rebuilding skills, Cross of Mason.
Etc ...
Example B:
Monthly event where all are summoned for a feast together with the king. Where he holds a speech and adress those
who have done a good job protecting our domain or adding to our domain. The more people are at the feast the more the realm gets inspired/buffed. Offcourse during this time , the realm is open for grabs if you leave it unattended.
Example C:
The King rides with you into battle, inspiring all who ride with him. ( This can be triggered if the majority of guild leaders demand for an intervention by the King for a certain battle , once a week).
Example
See example C. During this battle the faeces hit the fan, your King is brought to fall. Your sole mission now is to get him to safety first , by escorting him very slowly back to a friendly keep while hordes of your enemies try to stop you.
Example E:
See example D. You fail to escort your King to safety. He is taken by the enemy and held for ransom. This gives your realm a debuff , because well ... you are without a King. Money will be have to be brought to the table. And with money i mean a tremendous fee, wich will have to be raised by everyone of the realm. Once the money is paid your King is send back to you. And out of shame will not be able to execute Example C for a couple of weeks.
All previous stated examples are being executed by a developer/GM. So you dont get an NPC rimturd as King !
Realm Pride right there.