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Feedback needed: Clear as Mudd
MarkJacobs
CEO City State EntertainmentMember RarePosts: 649
Folks,
As I mentioned in another thread, Monday's first post will be to better explain Friday's post. If you wouldn't mind, please read what follows and let me know if it adequately communicates the following:
1) That we will have a leveling system for RvR and other activities that will be robust and come with all sorts of goodies.
2) Why we aren't calling the above Realm Ranks/Abilities.
GIven the number of people who said that my meaning wasn't clear, I thought I'd ask you guys. Thanks!
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Clear as Mudd
Okay, so yesterday was not my finest hour when it comes to effectively communicating my thoughts to the Community-at-large. My apologies for that, not sure why I was apparently having a “bad word” day but since I’m spending some of the weekend explaining my explanation, I thought that I should use my first post today to explain, hopefully for the last time, exactly what I meant to say as well as answering another couple of related questions. Therefore, without further wasting of your time at the introduction, off we go.
Realm Abilities
As to the post, formerly titled as TTQ: No realm ranks, abilities? What? (Now known as simply TTQ: Will there be realm ranks in the game?)
1) RR/RAs are the terminology that Dark Age of Camelot uses and we do not want to use the same names for both ethical and legal reasons.
2) RR/RAs were built upon the premise that we needed another system to sit atop the main leveling system. The idea was to allow player to level up their character's abilities for RvR since that game had a heavy PvE component. CU will not have a PvE-based leveling system.
3) Since there is no PvE leveling in the game, our leveling system(s) are geared around RvR, so the player must advance/progress based on what they do in RvR as well as what their realm-mates do. The game will absolutely reward you but not just with abilities and/or spells. Please keep in mind that since this is our main way to allow people to advance their character(s), we not only have the obligation to do it right but the freedom to do it without worrying about a PvE-based system so we can not only give players the more commonplace rewards but others as well.
4) As to RvR-based titles, heck yeah. I want to be quite expansive with the titles in this game. This is supposed to be a fun game (yeah, thanks Captain obvious!) so we should also have fun titles as well as ones that are more serious. Yes, you will also know the name/title of the enemy players as well out on the field of battle.
5) Each main pillar of the game, RvR/Crafting/Housing will have separate leveling tracks. Each leveling track will contain appropriate rewards for the track. As a crafter, you won’t get rewards (spells/abilities/etc.) from the crafting track that will be useful in RvR just as you won’t get RvR rewards that would benefit your crafting skills. If you want to earn rewards to help you in RvR, you will have to play and fight in RvR. Crafters will, of course, be able to make items to help in RvR but as they craft items, they won’t gain RvR abilities to help them in the battle.
6) As an RvR-focused game, I expect we will have more abilities/spells/etc. for players of CU than Dark Age had for RAs since RAs were a complimentary system and in CU, RvR and the related activities are the main leveling tracks. These will be added slowly over time so as not to mess things up at launch but they will be numerous and spread out horizontally through other systems as well.
Therefore, yes, we will have systems in place to dazzle, entice and reward our players who participate in RvR, crafting and housing. 
Mark
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Comments
Sounds pretty clear to me Mark.
For those still having problems:
DAoC:
PvE -> Skills
RvR -> Realm Abilities (Skills already in use, to avoid confusion a new name was made)
CU:
No PvE -> Nothing
RvR -> Skills (No need to make a new name).
Now I fully unterstand the TTQ. Thanks!
I'm happy about the titles thing.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
I understood what you were saying and deducted what you didn't say.. when I finished reading the article.
My sphincter knotted up when I read the headline and I immediately got the impression that there would be no way to clearly deduce a player's proficiency at pwning. The siloing of status based on pve, crafting, keeps taken, relics taken, and general pwning. General pwning, pwn points, the stuff you got from killing enemy players, not repairing a door, is what people want to be able to clearly distinguish, a data point easily sortable on a grid or a herald.
The art of Pwn was very rewarding. Determination 5, RR5 ability, are one of those rites of passage, and to get there you had to cut your teeth at a disadvantage.
I think you just need to make it explicitly clear that the rewards and prestige earned from pwning will not be blurred with less prestigious activities. And if there will be pwning rites of passage, make that clear as well.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Fixed. See point (5).
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Mark,
One of the aspects of DAoC that I really enjoyed about the realm rank system was it really allowed you to keep on 'leveling' your character almost indefinatly, albiet it got expnentially more difficult with each progression. Do you envision a simmilar system for CU? Or will at some point will character advancement cap out?
Agreed...it took such a long time to get to RR13...years and years. I think it would be difficult to keep players suitably "motivated" without making sure you didn't cap out quickly. One of the major failings of recent MMO's i think is making it just too easy and too quick to blast through most of the content in the space of a week and max out your character.
DAOC had such longevity.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
LOL, before I answer that, how about you guys giving me some feedback, hmmm?
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
lol
Its pretty damn clear to me. Since you've elaborated on character progression in the 3 "spheres" being self contained that helps. Knowing a guy who will spend all his time crafting will be a mastercrafter but that is not the same experience that helps him own at rvr is good to know. It both allows freedom to concentrate and be rewarded for what you want or like to do. While at the same time doesn't make a hermit who crafts helms of uberness in the safe zone go out and be a god on the battlefield even though he has never lifted a sword.
I love the fact that we'll be able to see names/titles of enemies again. So many games put up this invisible wall of retardation so no ones feelings can be hurt...it sickens me lol. Especially since some of the best friends I have made in gaming were one time rivals/enemies.
The only thing I am curious about is how do you see skill gathering happening within the game. Will skills/spells be awarded when you level, or gain XXX skill in using an item/spell, or do you envision some sort of talent tree or whatever? Adding a little note about how that works might help as well for section 5 or 6.
You're mean. I like it!
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Whatever the system for Tri Realm, I hope it's not easily attained and capped in a week or month or even a year. People get to cap in anything and the game dies off.
I like when things are tough and I'm not just given things just for showing up.
It will be interesting to see what you all come up with.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I found it clear enough when you put the first TTQ up yesterday, what i took from it was CU progression = PvE leveling. Realm Ranks, and Realm Abilities etc all combined into a new (but as of yet, unfinished) form. This thread does make it easier to understand though.
I know such a tease lol
I agree with the daoc long term goals!
Glad you like the name thing. Yeah, I'm not worried if somebody's feelings are hurt because they see their name in kill spam or if their defeat is posted somewhere. We're looking for players who want to play a game where they know they will win/lose on a nightly basis and are just fine with that, as long as it is fun and there still is the language barrier wall between the realms (sorry, still a believer in that one).
It's a bit more complicated than that and as far as I know, it's pretty different from other games so before I make any promises or talk about it, just know that we really want to find a way not to do the typical xp/leveling system. I'm not trying to be evasive here but since I'm really trying to avoid hype (or things coming back to bite me in the butt if I have to change them), that we are looking at a combination of usage-based leveling and more of a free roaming skills/abilties system based on RvR actions/success. Is that okay for now?
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
To be fair Mark I think you have been pretty clear with this issue, it must be quite difficult to try and explain your intentions on a specific part of the game mechanics without giving -too- much away at an early stage and then being constrained during development because you don't want to dissapoint players that you have made claims to in the past.
One point I just wanted to make though with regards to "You won’t get rewards from the crafting track that will be useful in RvR just as you won’t get RvR rewards that would benefit your crafting skills." When I first read this I thought for a second that you meant that crafting won't benefit you in RVR...im guessing thats not the case! Maybe you mean that additional abilities gained from the crafting track won't benefit you, but the items you make will?
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
Not a chance that it will be "Buy game, create char, kill one Viking, Ding Gratz!" not a chance at all.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
So one failure of daoc was you didnt see the players personal /title just the race and realm rank title... are you going to try and incorporate that into CU? Nothing better than seeling a Kinght charging at you with a high rank title and below "kitty tickler" and such. I also agree that realms should never beable to communicate.
Argh. Good point. Fixing now. Yes, you are right, I'm not trying to hype stuff while at the same time talk about it mixed in with a general hesitancy to talk about some things for competitve reasons too (there are only a couple of things that fall into this category though so far).
Thanks and so my answer to your question is, that right now we are looking at an uncapped system as the best way to go for the game. Gaining abilities will not be something that will happen at most of today's MMORPGs pace but we also don't want players thinking that they have to play the game 24x7 for a week to see any progress. There is a balance to be struck but we are definitely not leaning towards easy mode.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
That absolutely suffices for now. You're still sorting it out and thats fine. I wouldn't expect every system and detail to be hammered down right now. I kind of imagine your office whiteboard is probably something akin to a Wile E Coyote Acme bluepirnt right now except the dots connecting the steps have like 1000 branches at the moment lol.
Why's it always gotta be about killing vikings? Show the man where the bad Olaf touched you.
LOL
Fixed and thanks. TIme for an early dinner, will be back soon.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Uncapped system?
That's music to my ears
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur