I'm with you, brother. I think good mounted combat is the one thing missing from MMOs these days. I'd love to see people using strategies where they send in the infantry and then the mounted knights come galloping in after them. They could be used to break up the archers/casters in the back. Not sure of the most balanced way of pulling this off, but I think it would be pretty epic if it could be.
I believe mounts instead of speedclasses is the right way to go, as this will give the world a more medieval feel like the one we our self had (mounts was widely used in our own darkages, both in and outside of combat). Best of all would be possibilties to use mounts to battle, but it's not necessary.
Mounts do add a lot of diversity and flair, but I hope they will focus on smooth gameplay primary. Its fine with me to wait on something like mounts if it would increase bugs and lags rushing it.
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game. But I can tell you it would be a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat.
Originally posted by alexisevic I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game. But I can tell you it would be a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat.
Mounted combat doesn't appeal to me. I hope it doesn't make it into the game.
Originally posted by alexisevic I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game. But I can tell you it would be a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat.
Balance it out like real warfare?
Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?
Originally posted by alexisevic I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game. But I can tell you it would be a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat.
Balance it out like real warfare?
Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?
Gosh, if only it were that easy! Every MMO should have throught of that, pikes and spears FTW!
No one ever fought on foot because they wanted too, they did because they had too. It wasn't a tactical choice, it was an economic one. You can't simply copy paste IRL tactics into MMOs and expect them to work. No, sadly what would happen is mounted combat would turn into nothing but skirmish tactics against non monted units. Due to their better speed, they would only melee their opponents when victory was assured, and until then they would just kite and over extend them.
Originally posted by alexisevic I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game. But I can tell you it would be a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat.
Balance it out like real warfare?
Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?
Gosh, if only it were that easy! Every MMO should have throught of that, pikes and spears FTW!
No one ever fought on foot because they wanted too, they did because they had too. It wasn't a tactical choice, it was an economic one. You can't simply copy paste IRL tactics into MMOs and expect them to work. No, sadly what would happen is mounted combat would turn into nothing but skirmish tactics against non monted units. Due to their better speed, they would only melee their opponents when victory was assured, and until then they would just kite and over extend them.
It works fine in Mount and blade (online). A good bowmen can dismount a guy on horseback, people can have pikes/anti-cavarly weapons and other things.
Plus, horses have collision, if they run into a line of troops, they might break through a small line but a bigger line they will get stopped and ht ehorse is hardly manuverible in this situation, surrounded by people on foot you won't last long.
Horses should cost money, and good armor for horses, or "war mounts" (Ie horses trained specifically for fighting) can cost a LOT of money, so it's both a money sink plus strategic to know if you should use one or not. Cheaper horses (mainly used to travel) would have less hp, be prone to "spooking" if battle ensues and other things that wouldn't make them that viable for engaging in combat vs a war horse that costs a lot more money.
As far as skirmish tactics, you assume everyone would be melee that's on foot, or everyone would be range on horseback? Plenty of people will play melee on horseback (if they have lances, or even just swords to swing about). In which case they are vunerable to range attacks, but also when engaging someone in melee range they can still be killed, depending on the weapona and attack that person uses.
What makes you assume the guy on horseback would win every fight, provided the people on foot have access to tactics to use against mounte dfoes?
Just likle in the real world, Cavalry weren't invunerable, they could be coutnered, It's about tactics, and in an mmo I'm all for adding depth and layers to what people can do, not keeping them out because it will take time to balance and do them correctly.
Perhaps that can be a stretch goal for the kickstarter. Base game/money goal doesn't have mounts/mounted combat, and a certain stretch goal gives them the funds to do them properly.
Yes, and as far as mounted combat is concerned, I think UO did it very well in the early game.
Need horse? okay, you gotta have some taming, and find one.
Or more likly, most of the time I'd just take one of the one's walking around that had belonged to some blue:)
Ahh those where the days!
In CU, Balancing of mounted and non mounted could incorperate a pentalty system for certain actions if done from horse back...
example: Percentage chance a spell fizzles/ archery shot misses because your mounted.
Some styles are not available or are replaced by mounted combat styles(like have some fighter classes that specialize in mounted combat, and other classes only get limited styles/skills. ) Think Mongolian horse archer, Lancer, or what ever,(insert your class here)
I accually already have an entire write up from a game I was working on that's like 50 pages long that deals with this issue.It includes affects on each type of class, replacement of skills, penatlies for being knocked off the mount, benifits for being mounted, ect ect.
Keep in mind also, you could impose restriction on types of horses certain classes could employ much like armor restictions.
mages won't have a war horse, and thus if he wanted to ride into battle It would be on a regular riding horse. it could go down easy, much like he can, and he could suffer the penatly for that. /example: Since he's not skilled in riding, he breaks a leg, and is snared for a period of time when his horse went down. He goes down but manages to jump clear of the fall, but loses his staff, and is left unable to cast for a short period of time. ect ect.
It's not as tough as you think, as long as you can be creative with imposing pentalties, and benifits. In the end the players decide if they want to incure the penalties for the benifits to have a certain play style.
No mounted combat, no mounts for traveling, no funny magical spider horses, no poof out of nowhere and poof back to the pocket mounts, no stables, no cavalry warfare.
A good and smooth combat on foot, with magic and trickstery that adjust movement speed, speed of perceived time, or player location but for the love of Thor do not put Vikings on mounts or Veil creatures on spiders.
If I want to ride be a purple demon chick riding a pink elephant I'd play WoW. No magic carpets, poco sticks, brooms or motorcycles either. "Adds immersion" my ass. No asses either, we dont need no donkeys.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
If I don't vote for a Speed Class then I am sure one of my best friends will disown me. As for mounts it really depends on the size of the landscape itself so that mounts actually feel like a useful addition. I however do not want instant ports to battlefield components or flying mounts.
No mounted combat, no mounts for traveling, no funny magical spider horses, no poof out of nowhere and poof back to the pocket mounts, no stables, no cavalry warfare.
A good and smooth combat on foot, with magic and trickstery that adjust movement speed, speed of perceived time, or player location but for the love of Thor do not put Vikings on mounts or Veil creatures on spiders.
If I want to ride be a purple demon chick riding a pink elephant I'd play WoW. No magic carpets, poco sticks, brooms or motorcycles either. "Adds immersion" my ass. No asses either, we dont need no donkeys.
So in your opinion, horses are too "fantastical" or magical to have in a early middle ages inspiried setting, where horses were mainly the main and only form of transportation, but having magical spells, steatlh that turns you invisible, etc is more immersive and believable then that?
I mean I respect your right to have an opinion, but everyone that says "no to horses" and then lists out magical things as a reason for not putting them in game, when the game itself has magic in it, just doesn't make much sense to me how that is a valid reason for not wanting them in.
No one mentioned pink elephants, or spider mounts or anything, I think most people that want mounts simply want horses of various breeds/colors, with the ability to armor them and fight on horseback, as no other mmo has really done this properly and it fits with the setting of Camelot.
Comments
You don't think something like this would be fun to have in the game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpz8XuV6y8&t=0m45s
I'm with you, brother. I think good mounted combat is the one thing missing from MMOs these days. I'd love to see people using strategies where they send in the infantry and then the mounted knights come galloping in after them. They could be used to break up the archers/casters in the back. Not sure of the most balanced way of pulling this off, but I think it would be pretty epic if it could be.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
Mounted combat doesn't appeal to me. I hope it doesn't make it into the game.
Balance it out like real warfare?
Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?
Gosh, if only it were that easy! Every MMO should have throught of that, pikes and spears FTW!
No one ever fought on foot because they wanted too, they did because they had too. It wasn't a tactical choice, it was an economic one. You can't simply copy paste IRL tactics into MMOs and expect them to work. No, sadly what would happen is mounted combat would turn into nothing but skirmish tactics against non monted units. Due to their better speed, they would only melee their opponents when victory was assured, and until then they would just kite and over extend them.
It works fine in Mount and blade (online). A good bowmen can dismount a guy on horseback, people can have pikes/anti-cavarly weapons and other things.
Plus, horses have collision, if they run into a line of troops, they might break through a small line but a bigger line they will get stopped and ht ehorse is hardly manuverible in this situation, surrounded by people on foot you won't last long.
Horses should cost money, and good armor for horses, or "war mounts" (Ie horses trained specifically for fighting) can cost a LOT of money, so it's both a money sink plus strategic to know if you should use one or not. Cheaper horses (mainly used to travel) would have less hp, be prone to "spooking" if battle ensues and other things that wouldn't make them that viable for engaging in combat vs a war horse that costs a lot more money.
As far as skirmish tactics, you assume everyone would be melee that's on foot, or everyone would be range on horseback? Plenty of people will play melee on horseback (if they have lances, or even just swords to swing about). In which case they are vunerable to range attacks, but also when engaging someone in melee range they can still be killed, depending on the weapona and attack that person uses.
What makes you assume the guy on horseback would win every fight, provided the people on foot have access to tactics to use against mounte dfoes?
Just likle in the real world, Cavalry weren't invunerable, they could be coutnered, It's about tactics, and in an mmo I'm all for adding depth and layers to what people can do, not keeping them out because it will take time to balance and do them correctly.
Perhaps that can be a stretch goal for the kickstarter. Base game/money goal doesn't have mounts/mounted combat, and a certain stretch goal gives them the funds to do them properly.
Yes, and as far as mounted combat is concerned, I think UO did it very well in the early game.
Need horse? okay, you gotta have some taming, and find one.
Or more likly, most of the time I'd just take one of the one's walking around that had belonged to some blue:)
Ahh those where the days!
In CU, Balancing of mounted and non mounted could incorperate a pentalty system for certain actions if done from horse back...
example: Percentage chance a spell fizzles/ archery shot misses because your mounted.
Some styles are not available or are replaced by mounted combat styles(like have some fighter classes that specialize in mounted combat, and other classes only get limited styles/skills. ) Think Mongolian horse archer, Lancer, or what ever,(insert your class here)
I accually already have an entire write up from a game I was working on that's like 50 pages long that deals with this issue.It includes affects on each type of class, replacement of skills, penatlies for being knocked off the mount, benifits for being mounted, ect ect.
Keep in mind also, you could impose restriction on types of horses certain classes could employ much like armor restictions.
mages won't have a war horse, and thus if he wanted to ride into battle It would be on a regular riding horse. it could go down easy, much like he can, and he could suffer the penatly for that. /example: Since he's not skilled in riding, he breaks a leg, and is snared for a period of time when his horse went down. He goes down but manages to jump clear of the fall, but loses his staff, and is left unable to cast for a short period of time. ect ect.
It's not as tough as you think, as long as you can be creative with imposing pentalties, and benifits. In the end the players decide if they want to incure the penalties for the benifits to have a certain play style.
CyborWolfTk~
No mounts, never ever.
No mounted combat, no mounts for traveling, no funny magical spider horses, no poof out of nowhere and poof back to the pocket mounts, no stables, no cavalry warfare.
A good and smooth combat on foot, with magic and trickstery that adjust movement speed, speed of perceived time, or player location but for the love of Thor do not put Vikings on mounts or Veil creatures on spiders.
If I want to ride be a purple demon chick riding a pink elephant I'd play WoW. No magic carpets, poco sticks, brooms or motorcycles either. "Adds immersion" my ass. No asses either, we dont need no donkeys.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
WHO - Online 08-10
LOTR-O - Online 06-08
Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
Bear "replicant" Powell
"I am Shaolin-Style!"
So in your opinion, horses are too "fantastical" or magical to have in a early middle ages inspiried setting, where horses were mainly the main and only form of transportation, but having magical spells, steatlh that turns you invisible, etc is more immersive and believable then that?
I mean I respect your right to have an opinion, but everyone that says "no to horses" and then lists out magical things as a reason for not putting them in game, when the game itself has magic in it, just doesn't make much sense to me how that is a valid reason for not wanting them in.
No one mentioned pink elephants, or spider mounts or anything, I think most people that want mounts simply want horses of various breeds/colors, with the ability to armor them and fight on horseback, as no other mmo has really done this properly and it fits with the setting of Camelot.
DAoC - RIP
Speed classes are fine, but make minstrels either a non-stealth class or a non-speed class.
Mounts are fine for non-combat. If one look back in history, the vikings and english would ride to battle, then dismount and fight in shield walls.