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More abilities or less abilities
Agensoth
Member Posts: 1
I'm comfortable with older tab-targeting combat systems as well as newer action styles like Neverwinter. I don't know what my preference would be since there are many conderations in game design that can affect the combat system. However action-based games tend to have fewer abilities then then MMO usually have. This I like.
For quite awhile, I've waited for developers to streamline combat. I am not looking forward to a new MMO with 30 abilities that I need to keybind again. I dont' want a power just for the sake of needing something at my new level. I don't want combat to be based significantly on landing complex keybinds.
I can manage about 12 maybe 15 keybinds at most. Beyond that, games start to become unplayable (at not played well). This is not a big deal if I were to faceroll through PvE levelling content, but CU is an RvR game. Having fun in RvR is based in part in competentcy.
So I'm done with having 4 actions bars filling up my screen. But I may well like a few more abilities then Neverwinter (which I do like). I hope for a happy medium between 30 abilities and 6 abilities, leaning closer to the lower end.
How do others fell about this.
Comments
My feelings, coming from a background of Magic:The Gathering.
I like M:TG where you had to build a deck and select card that would "combo" with each other. That was the fun of it. So, I enjoy a system like GUILD WARS 1. Give me 12 to 18 slots to place abilities in. This does 2 things:
1. Adds variety to classes because people will have different skills selected.
2. Makes you pick and create combos.
Also on this note, GW2 combo system is good. It is not as good as a "Skill Chain" from FF11, but it is still really cool. I think CU needs this, personally.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I like have alot of abilities, provided they all do infact serve a purpose, and their purpose isn't just overlapped with another skill thats effectively the same...on a different timer...
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
The only reason you would need a ton of abilities is if they were stupid rotational bullshit. If the abilities don't have cooldowns and all are situationally better than using an anytime ability, using a melee as an example, you don't need a lot of them.
Then you've got casters which really don't need a lot of abilities at all. You get the idea, have each ability have a specific purpose and don't create a bunch of crap intended for rotations. Not a pve game so there shouldn't be any rotations really.
umm yea even as a elementalist, it was kinda boring. clunky combat on a shitty old engine doesn't help things though.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
i think the new method some games (currently in development) are using that limit you to 5 or so abilities are too limiting. I don't think you can fully flesh out a character with on 5 or 6 abilities. However, i think some games have gone way overboard and having 40 to 50 skills on screen at all times is rediculous. I hope they find a good solid middle ground that keeps our characters under control, yet still gives us plenty of options.
One thing I would like to see though is that classes not be "handed" all their skills. I like customization. Make the player choose to acquire one skill or another, or one set of skills or another set. Having 30 or so skills for a single class is fine but limit which ones they can pick by their leveling up choices, not by limiting the slots they have on screen to put them. I do NOT like giving the player access to every skill the class could potentially have and then telling them to pick 5 or 6 or however many the interface allows. That makes for flip floppy play and counters the feel of becoming the character and learning your oponent.
That brings me to one last point. When i see a player on the battlefield, i want to "know" my enemy. I want that feeling that I can say to the group, "watch that guy, his fireballs hurt bad" but if i see the same guy and every time we fight he has a different set of skills, that ruins the feel of learning your enemy and recognizing them from their skills and playstyle. Too many skills can ruin this feeling as well.
i dont think WAR was that bad though....this isnt too many abilties....
http://trf-guild.com/forums/gallery/1_21_10_08_1_10_18.jpg
UNLIKE!
http://trf-guild.com/forums/gallery/1_03_05_10_6_05_30.jpg
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
Quality>Quanity is whiat I think when it comes to abilities.
I much rather would have a small set of vaulable abilities that are dynamic and different from other ones that have good strategic use, then to have 20 + abilities of slight tweaks, variations.
Further more, this is one of the reasons I lean toward hopig that CU will go with a more actiony-combat system over the usual tab-target + a zillion hotkeys.
As a melee fighter (that's what I usually play as in mmo's) it can become a bit bland and boring, speaking in temrs of usual mmo combat.
Playing a game like Severance, or even ones like Rune, Die by the sword, Jedi Knight, etc I find a lot more exciting and fun as far as the combat goes. Though I highly prefer the combat in Severance to the others.
The way it worked was that insted of "abilities" you simply had combat moves, which were dependent on your weapon you were using (IE one sword had different moves then a two hander, a mace, etc) and the character you were playing.
It had a LOT of moves by this standard, pulling some of them off could be a little tricky, but each move had it's purpoes and reason, some quick, some more poewrful, some that hit high, some low, some were combo moves hitting more then once and more.
The enemies had combos and things as well, and as you played you started to learn more and more, and with careful watching and quick reflexes you could knew when to dodge, sidestep, block, etc. Combat felt more strategic and natural, a lot more then mmo style combat with it's hotkeys, which tend to hav ea disconnect in terms of player interaction between the two people fighting. A hit was a hit, if you dodged it missed, you could fient blows , etc.
This made defense a vital part of combat as well, the point of combat was not to get hit, unlike many mmo's where "you will get hit" and you simply have to rely on armour to migate the damage or if your class has it a block ability (That usually doens't even block all the damage, just a %).
They can make the characters and classes in CU a lot more unique feeling if they were to do somethig similar, where the combat moves are dependent both on race and weapons used. So a warrior of one race that uses a weapon plays differently then another.
Exactly my thought. I don't want it to play like a FPS or console game. There should be enough abilities that you should need to put some thought into where to place them in your UI for maximum efficiency. However I'd rather have fewer, well thought out and effective abilities than a ton of mediocre abilities from which I only get to choose 2 or 3 active at a time. But between class abilities, realm abilities or whatever they end up calling them, and other stuff such as potions, mounts, siege, etc., you should have at least close to 2 full quickbars (20-24 skills) of abilities.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I don't think the number of abilties is the main issue, but I do feel that the number of useful abilities is. I am used to games that give you 2-5 and you feel somewhat gimped or bored at the repetitive nature they can cause. On the other hand I have played plenty that have hundreds of abililities, but you'd be hard pressed to find a dozen worth using.
GW1 I think honestly had my favorite skill system from a strategy standpoint. You seriously had to look at everything you had available and try to narrow it down to 8. While many cookie-cutters existed this lead to the possibility to some very cool builds. Horizons (Istaria) had my next favorite system from a fun and interactive skill system since it allowed you to open up your potential in a vast way that very few other games have gotten close to. FFXI was the closest of the AAA titles, but even it held you back more without fully going skill based.
Bear "replicant" Powell
"I am Shaolin-Style!"
I want few abilities selected from a bigger pool of abilities as long as they are all meaningfull.
i.e. I'd like to be able to select and use ~5ish abilities at any time from a poolof, say, 10-15.
What I REALLY would like, however, is the use of perks (a la Elder Scrolls) that can be assigned to your existing abilities with each level.
Zod had 3 hotbars in Daoc and I needed every button...
That seems kind of ... limited.
in daoc there was a great differency between some chars with the amount of needed skills ... a support char normaly had like 3 bars+keybind full of skills wich were all needed while a warrior had like 1 bar +qbinds and of this 1 bar you normaly needed only like 4 skills everything else was only very situational
i prefer having like 10-20 skills but with all of em serving to a different situation where like very few of the skills are needed within every fight (single target nuke ae nuke cc heals debuffs etc) and everything else is only to bring you in place after you or a grp mate made a mistake(insta heal(with 5min cd) wich heals 100% of the targets hp, getting invulnerable and these kind of 1 time useages)
btw this brings me up to another point ... i would realy like to see meaning full instas wich are used for special situations only and being on a longer cd than this spam fest newer mmo lead to with instas ... as a heal id rather have a insta wich completly heals my targets hp but with a long cd than this insta wich heals like 1% but is usable while running since this increases the tactical meaning of positioning
Yes and at the same time it was something truly remarkable, and because of it even up to the final days of the approaching precipice of Guild Wars 2 players were creating unique builds for characters. If I had to guess the final builds probably revolved around the elementalist and their class mechanic rework.
My last creation was a dervish earth tank build for The Deep that could tank any area a stance warrior tanked. Felt good to show everyone once again that warrior tanking was useless.
Ex-DAOC, Excalibur
More is always better in an MMO. I dont recall ever hearing about anything in the genre that could come close to getting me to understand why less would be better no matter the topic...even people saying that "more ___ would mean less ___", that is a game designer issue and is not a reason not to want more of a thing.
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