mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.
everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.
even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.
it stopped being a game at some point.
maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.
WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.
The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.
What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).
i don't know, trying to gain the 15 reputations or whatever it is over a long period of time sure felt like a grind to me.. i logged in, did my daily reputation quests and by that time i was pretty much done playing.
what is that? i pay to log in and do a monotonous daily quest over and over each day?
and on every character no less.
What is the goal/reason of doing dailies? Gear. The only reason to do dailies each and every day is to gain access to their gear, which goes back to what I just said. Nowhere in my post did I say that dailies were not a grind. I hate dailies with a passion, so I ended up raiding instead for my gear (which is a choice everyone can make). My point was that the grind is nowhere near the lvl it was in Vanilla/BC, its just that gear is no longer just handed out freely, you have to work for it, which has people upset.
You literally confirmed the point I was making.
the point of doing dailies isn't specifically gear, i don't raid... there's also mounts and other odds and ends and just the simple case of completion.
i did the dailies because what else is there to do? that was my point.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.
i was in a pretty active raiding guild throughout cata and finally got bored to death when blizzard decided not to add in any new content for like 8 months while they were working on MOP so I quit. I came back and got my DK to 89 and was totally bored to tears with this game. While I agree the new graphics are leagues ahead of the old zones and there is a lot of care put into making the world , the game just sucks period now. The talent system is horrid , everyone is now the exact same period which is the opposite of what they said they wanted when making it. The quest system is just longwinded and boring as hell , it takes way to long to hit 90 with the same exact repetitive quests , then you have to do a HUGE rep grind of more of the same dailies.
I gotta say Im no fan of rift at all , i truely hate it now but their expansion was leagues ahead of anything that blizzard did , I feel like MOP was nothing more than a cash grab while they continue to keep most of their talent working on titan. I was really hoping for a great expansion and it ended up as nothing but more of the same with a dev team they just do not get why people complain.
mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.
everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.
even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.
it stopped being a game at some point.
maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.
WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.
The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.
What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).
i don't know, trying to gain the 15 reputations or whatever it is over a long period of time sure felt like a grind to me.. i logged in, did my daily reputation quests and by that time i was pretty much done playing.
what is that? i pay to log in and do a monotonous daily quest over and over each day?
and on every character no less.
What is the goal/reason of doing dailies? Gear. The only reason to do dailies each and every day is to gain access to their gear, which goes back to what I just said. Nowhere in my post did I say that dailies were not a grind. I hate dailies with a passion, so I ended up raiding instead for my gear (which is a choice everyone can make). My point was that the grind is nowhere near the lvl it was in Vanilla/BC, its just that gear is no longer just handed out freely, you have to work for it, which has people upset.
You literally confirmed the point I was making.
the point of doing dailies isn't specifically gear, i don't raid... there's also mounts and other odds and ends and just the simple case of completion.
i did the dailies because what else is there to do? that was my point.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.
i'm simply saying the feel of it has changed for me... it doesn't feel like i'm playing a game any more.
i played since open beta and had fun up to mists of pandaria/cataclysm, it never felt like a simple grind to me before and now it does.
why that is i don't completely know...
i don't mind a grind, or working over time to achieve something but with mists of pandaria i don't have any fun whatsoever, doesn't feel like i'm playing a game.
i basically log in to do a job and then log out.
it was never like that before.
maybe it was because i obtained things faster and was able to go out and enjoy the game instead of spending so much time on the grind aspect of it, not saying that's wrong.. i don't know specifically what the cause is.
it started with cataclysm and concluded with mists.
i was in a pretty active raiding guild throughout cata and finally got bored to death when blizzard decided not to add in any new content for like 8 months while they were working on MOP so I quit. I came back and got my DK to 89 and was totally bored to tears with this game. While I agree the new graphics are leagues ahead of the old zones and there is a lot of care put into making the world , the game just sucks period now. The talent system is horrid , everyone is now the exact same period which is the opposite of what they said they wanted when making it. The quest system is just longwinded and boring as hell , it takes way to long to hit 90 with the same exact repetitive quests , then you have to do a HUGE rep grind of more of the same dailies.
I gotta say Im no fan of rift at all , i truely hate it now but their expansion was leagues ahead of anything that blizzard did , I feel like MOP was nothing more than a cash grab while they continue to keep most of their talent working on titan. I was really hoping for a great expansion and it ended up as nothing but more of the same with a dev team they just do not get why people complain.
This is the last thing I will say on the matter. Dailies are just one of the revamped additions to the endgame. Everything else is still there. Implying that the game is all about dailies, is literally just a gripe that you hav to do dailies instead of getting free gear.
Lets say I have a hairbrush...and my hair brust can brush my hair, and scratch my back.......lets say they add the ability for it to brush your teeth (while keeping the ability to do everything else it always did), so you now start crying that you have a huge tooth brush...doesnt make sense right? Nobody is forced to do dailies, its a choice you have. I completely agree that dailies are the worst thing added to the game, but it doesnt affect me in the least, i just dont do them...I just do all of the other endgame the game has always had...my playstyle from all the previous expansions is the same...nothing has been removed (content wise)....if you hate dailies, dont do dailies. If dailies are the "only" thing to do (in your opinion), then why are you even subbed if you literally dont like any of the other conent?
1>The gated VP gear (Really makes it hard to want to level alts past 89. If you get VP cap on one toon every other toon on your account has 50% more VP earned that week... Best system ever.
2>No flying till 90, cant even fly when dead (Imo, Blizz should make it so you can buy flying for alts after 85) World exploration is a good thing, sorry.
3>Dailes, dailies, more dailies, how about some moar dailies, and then some dailies, talk about overkill Would you prefer the story to just END at 90 like SWTOR? nah, I really like how they tell the story using daily quests that are different each day (there are MANY MANY different daily quests)
4>Alot of mobs have to much health thus making some dailies a chore at 90 to do. No, you just don't have gear yet, or you are a healer. This is just silly, you are over geared for most of the leveling experience, and then when you finally get to 90 and you have to earn some gear to get caught up you bulk at the thought of dailies and freak out and quit huh?
5>Did I mention dailies? Seems like you really don't enjoy quests in general... Perhaps mmo's just aren't for you.
6>The broken LFR loot system WAT? Seriously, what is broken about it? Its WAY WAY WAY better than the LFR system from Cata... Maybe you just don't understand how it works?
7>Grind from 85 to 90 pretty isnt THAT bad but still it really slows down but 13 million from 85>86, yikes! So you are saying that the bulk of the time spent leveling is in the most recent ex pack, thats like EVERY MMO EVER. You don't like mmos.
8>The overall Disney-vibe feel of the xpac lacks the coolness of the Classic, BC, Wotlk epic feeling. Disagree, though you ARE inclined to have your opinion on taste, its just not one that I share, or anyone I know shares.
9>Some quests are just terrible (those ones in Jade Forest where you control chars in a story, Im looking at you) Those quests are some of the best they've ever made... Opinions are like... well you know. I'm sorry you couldn't figure out how to use 1-3 buttons in a story telling quest...
10> Oh yea, I forgot.................Dailies! MMO's not for you.
Now, Blizz did get alot of things right since the last time I played in Wotlk. I love how its real easy to find groups for DR, LFR, etc. I also like how you dont need a raid group to solo old raiding content. Also the monk class is pretty nice. The graphics also in MOP are pretty top-notch.
My biggest beef from the list above all is the gated rep, thus pretty much forcing you to do dailies on alts that sometimes are just a chore to do, even on your main. Yea sure you can go around the rep gear by buying BOE epics (if you are rich) and try your luck with getting an epic in Heriocs, otherwise you are at the complete mercy of RNG (like the loot system is borked imo) So you don't like the continued progression past level 90, k. Seems like you don't like the traditional mmo formula, but you've demonstrated that throughout this entire article.
That is just bad design imo, why Blizz doesnt have a system like in Wotlk is beyond me. If you want leet-skillz herioc raid epics, then you gotta really earn it, but if you are casual and just want some badge gear style epics or epics from herioc dungeons (like in those ICC herioc dungeons) then thats good too. Really hope Blizz listens and changes these things ive listed in their next epac. Because they want to make it so that earning something actually has meaning and feels like you worked hard at it and you deserve it. They don't want to invalidate all that work EVEYR SINGLE PATCH that comes out, Wrath was TERRIBLE about that. Whats the point of finishing the last raid before the next patch? You can just do 5 mans for gear just as good as it. Yeah... THATS better... right...
i was in a pretty active raiding guild throughout cata and finally got bored to death when blizzard decided not to add in any new content for like 8 months while they were working on MOP so I quit. I came back and got my DK to 89 and was totally bored to tears with this game. While I agree the new graphics are leagues ahead of the old zones and there is a lot of care put into making the world , the game just sucks period now. The talent system is horrid , everyone is now the exact same period which is the opposite of what they said they wanted when making it. The quest system is just longwinded and boring as hell , it takes way to long to hit 90 with the same exact repetitive quests , then you have to do a HUGE rep grind of more of the same dailies.
I gotta say Im no fan of rift at all , i truely hate it now but their expansion was leagues ahead of anything that blizzard did , I feel like MOP was nothing more than a cash grab while they continue to keep most of their talent working on titan. I was really hoping for a great expansion and it ended up as nothing but more of the same with a dev team they just do not get why people complain.
I had my reservations about the new talent system when MOP dropped but once you start to see it in action, particularly at 90, you will see that there are so many more viable ways to play each class compared to before.
My buddy and I both run Disc priests in PvP and have completely different talent setups. Neither of us can argue who's works better because each build works for the way we like to play.
In the old talent system, there was absolutely no difference between our builds and if we strayed away from the optimal build we simply weren't as effective.
Bottom line, the new talent system is a very good addition to the game.
mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.
everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.
even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.
it stopped being a game at some point.
maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.
WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.
The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.
What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).
i don't know, trying to gain the 15 reputations or whatever it is over a long period of time sure felt like a grind to me.. i logged in, did my daily reputation quests and by that time i was pretty much done playing.
what is that? i pay to log in and do a monotonous daily quest over and over each day?
and on every character no less.
What is the goal/reason of doing dailies? Gear. The only reason to do dailies each and every day is to gain access to their gear, which goes back to what I just said. Nowhere in my post did I say that dailies were not a grind. I hate dailies with a passion, so I ended up raiding instead for my gear (which is a choice everyone can make). My point was that the grind is nowhere near the lvl it was in Vanilla/BC, its just that gear is no longer just handed out freely, you have to work for it, which has people upset.
You literally confirmed the point I was making.
the point of doing dailies isn't specifically gear, i don't raid... there's also mounts and other odds and ends and just the simple case of completion.
i did the dailies because what else is there to do? that was my point.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.
i played since open beta and had fun up to mists of pandaria/cataclysm, it never felt like a simple grind to me before and now it does.
Thats my point though...take away the option of doing dailies, and the exact same endgame is available to you as there was in vanilla/BC/Wotlk.
To claim the game is all about dailies now is mind boggling...its just another option you have if you so choose...
Ah ya, forgot to add that about the new talent system.
11>the new talent system.
Is far superior to any other itterations of talent systems in any game ever?
Yeah I agree.
Its nice to have ACTUAL choice rather than just the illusion of choice which was really just an idiot check. Herp derp go online and look up best build and use it. Now you actually can pick a play style and you have real choices...
But I don't expect you to understand that, after all, you hate progression and thereby progress it seems.
There are sites that track armory and see who picked what talents.
Most of them are evenly distributed 3 ways.
So its nice that people make wild vague unsubstantiated claims about how the new system is soooo cookie cutter, but facts simply prove that you are making it up as you go along.
Im sure there are people in this thread that are saying WoW is great but honestly if WoW released today it would die faster than Tabula Rasa...
I've been away from WoW for a while... TERA interested me more than my recent WoW try, So did SWTOR and TSW and GW2 and RIFT!
WoW happens to have this insanely large playerbase that has sticked with the game for years, these guys don't play other games... its WoW everyday, every waking second of their free time. its like a cyber cult.
Take a break from wow... maybe for three years and come back. Its an aged, inferior product. the combat is slow, the classes are simplistic, the graphics are low tech, the UI is horrid, The quests are cookie cutter, the dungeons are samey, the crafting is worthless and the AH is controlled by the gold farmers.
I bet you anything, take a person that never played a MMO before, have him/her play Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR or even TERA for a few months, then give them a copy of World of Warcraft. WoW would be uninstalled in less than a day.
Oh man, where to begin with this. I love it when people overemphasize 'revolutionary' features of other MMOs just because they are not WoW.
Did you just really called SWTOR superior to WoW? Maybe you forgot what happened to it. There is not a single thing in there that WoW could use.
TERA? Dude, dude. C'mon. I'll give you credit for combat system, but everything else?
GW2 is the strongest contender for WoW but it didn't go all to well for them, even with B2P system.
You would be surprised how many people came to WoW from those games.
GW2 and TERA do have something good, but they pretty much fail at other areas, especially TERA. While WoW doesn't excel at anything, it does everything else fine, in average, which is, in my opinion, better.
I bet you anything, take a person that never played a MMO before, have him/her play Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR or even TERA for a few months, then give them a copy of World of Warcraft. WoW would be uninstalled in less than a day.
The same could be said about the original EQ
I tried playing the original EQ after playing modern MMO's and I couldn't get into it. But for those who were subscribers at the begginning it's one of the greatest games ever and many still play and enjoy it.
Why? because it is one of the greatest games ever. Just because I didn't get into it doesn't mean it wasn't great.
A few years ago, at the height of WoW and a string of games coming out claiming to be WoW killers, many of us were saying, the only thing that'll kill WoW is time. And that's what is happening now. There is not or will never be a WoW killer, only age and players moving after years of enjoyment. And let's face it. WoW in decline is still bigger than anything else out there.
Ah ya, forgot to add that about the new talent system.
11>the new talent system.
Is far superior to any other itterations of talent systems in any game ever?
Yeah I agree.
Its nice to have ACTUAL choice rather than just the illusion of choice which was really just an idiot check. Herp derp go online and look up best build and use it. Now you actually can pick a play style and you have real choices...
But I don't expect you to understand that, after all, you hate progression and thereby progress it seems.
There are sites that track armory and see who picked what talents.
Most of them are evenly distributed 3 ways.
So its nice that people make wild vague unsubstantiated claims about how the new system is soooo cookie cutter, but facts simply prove that you are making it up as you go along.
I agree. I hated the old system. You would almost have to go back to Vanilla talent for system I liked.
The new system is the best system they have had in a long, long time.
mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.
everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.
even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.
it stopped being a game at some point.
maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.
WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.
The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.
What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).
i don't know, trying to gain the 15 reputations or whatever it is over a long period of time sure felt like a grind to me.. i logged in, did my daily reputation quests and by that time i was pretty much done playing.
what is that? i pay to log in and do a monotonous daily quest over and over each day?
and on every character no less.
What is the goal/reason of doing dailies? Gear. The only reason to do dailies each and every day is to gain access to their gear, which goes back to what I just said. Nowhere in my post did I say that dailies were not a grind. I hate dailies with a passion, so I ended up raiding instead for my gear (which is a choice everyone can make). My point was that the grind is nowhere near the lvl it was in Vanilla/BC, its just that gear is no longer just handed out freely, you have to work for it, which has people upset.
You literally confirmed the point I was making.
the point of doing dailies isn't specifically gear, i don't raid... there's also mounts and other odds and ends and just the simple case of completion.
i did the dailies because what else is there to do? that was my point.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.
i played since open beta and had fun up to mists of pandaria/cataclysm, it never felt like a simple grind to me before and now it does.
Thats my point though...take away the option of doing dailies, and the exact same endgame is available to you as there was in vanilla/BC/Wotlk.
To claim the game is all about dailies now is mind boggling...its just another option you have if you so choose...
well, i don't know what to tell you.. that's how i feel.
you're saying it doesn't effect you because you chose not to do them and just raid or whatever but what about people who don't raid.
i mainly do pvp battlegrounds, craft... try to earn money, explore and do achievements and collect stuff.
dailies appeared to me as the main source of all of that... crafting mats/to earn money, exclusive pets and items aligned to that factions, enabling me to get better pvp gear so i could actually compete in battlegrounds, etc.
i do agree with that on the surface not much has changed in terms of how end game looks but the way i feel while playing has completely changed so maybe the problem is with me, i don't know but i can't change the way i feel.
i have like 8 characters, i logged in and attempted to do dailies and would get bored and end up logging off.
it was like, "i'm off to work now"... but i don't see what else i can do beside dailies, it seems to be the major source of focus for most things.
This thread was interesting till someone said if you don't like dailies mmo's aren't for you..
Hahahahaha oh my how people who played WoW first have no idea, not a single clue.
Not gonna rag on WoW it does a good enough job on it's own, but if you think dailies are an example of good MMO content I weep for the genre.
Continue on I'm done rambling
Who said if you don't like dailies, you dont like MMOs? Iv been active in this thread for a bit, an I dont recall reading that lol.
Maybe im wrong, please quote it.
Dailies are complete trash, all I am trying to get accross is that WoW is not all about dailies, they are just an addition to the already exisitng endgame content.
10> Oh yea, I forgot.................Dailies! MMO's not for you.
cut the ends off of it because it was a bunch of longwindedness with no real point. it's on page 4 if you wanna wade through the whole post
I think's hes basically saying all MMOs have them, which, is 98% accurate. Not to mention his wider point (which you conviently removed) was that the OP perhaps doesn't like questing in general, which is a staple of MMOs.
10> Oh yea, I forgot.................Dailies! MMO's not for you.
cut the ends off of it because it was a bunch of longwindedness with no real point. it's on page 4 if you wanna wade through the whole post
I think's hes basically saying all MMOs have them, which, is 98% accurate. Not to mention his wider point (which you conviently removed) was that the OP perhaps doesn't like questing in general, which is a staple of MMOs.
Im going to quote my entire response, simply because i need to stop editing it :P
This highlights why I still play WoW....I HATE questing...I HATE dailies....I LOVE doing group content and dungons....which WoW enables you to do get into so easily (Dungon Finder, where many other Themeparks fail epicly). I have leveled at least 3 toons from 1-85 simply by running dungons and PVP...you can literally level a toon from 1-90 in a comparable amount of time without doing a single quest, which I relish.
Originally posted by doodphace I HATE questing...I HATE dailies
i LOVE questing --- I *despise* dailies
takes "wack-a-mole" to a new level of tedium
I can see how someone can relate the healing mechaincs in trinity games to "wack a mole"....I hate dailies prob more than most, but I fail to see how "kill 10 lizzards" over and over is any differen from "kill 10 boars, then kill 10 birds, then kill 10 chickens".
Fetch and kill quests in MMOs are still fetch and kill quests....who cares what you are fetching or killing? You do more fetch and kill quests leveing from 1-90 than you would do getting max rep in every MoP faction.
We can all agree that dailies suck ballz....and I am pretty sure we can all agree that MoP isnt "All about dailies".
In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.
And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.
it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.
This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.
At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.
Fetch and kill quests in MMOs are still fetch and kill quests....who cares what you are fetching or killing? You do more fetch and kill quests leveing from 1-90 than you would do getting max rep in every MoP faction.
you dont like questing
i doubt you can relate -- its all the same drudgery to you
for me - i enjoy questing as long as it has some form of story progression and is *not* repetitive
In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.
And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.
it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.
This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.
At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.
This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.
If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).
Comments
even i still play it and going to until i die , i mean the whole world of warcraft. im agreeing with you totally.
but you forgot to mention one thing....
DAILIES!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.
i was in a pretty active raiding guild throughout cata and finally got bored to death when blizzard decided not to add in any new content for like 8 months while they were working on MOP so I quit. I came back and got my DK to 89 and was totally bored to tears with this game. While I agree the new graphics are leagues ahead of the old zones and there is a lot of care put into making the world , the game just sucks period now. The talent system is horrid , everyone is now the exact same period which is the opposite of what they said they wanted when making it. The quest system is just longwinded and boring as hell , it takes way to long to hit 90 with the same exact repetitive quests , then you have to do a HUGE rep grind of more of the same dailies.
I gotta say Im no fan of rift at all , i truely hate it now but their expansion was leagues ahead of anything that blizzard did , I feel like MOP was nothing more than a cash grab while they continue to keep most of their talent working on titan. I was really hoping for a great expansion and it ended up as nothing but more of the same with a dev team they just do not get why people complain.
i'm simply saying the feel of it has changed for me... it doesn't feel like i'm playing a game any more.
i played since open beta and had fun up to mists of pandaria/cataclysm, it never felt like a simple grind to me before and now it does.
why that is i don't completely know...
i don't mind a grind, or working over time to achieve something but with mists of pandaria i don't have any fun whatsoever, doesn't feel like i'm playing a game.
i basically log in to do a job and then log out.
it was never like that before.
maybe it was because i obtained things faster and was able to go out and enjoy the game instead of spending so much time on the grind aspect of it, not saying that's wrong.. i don't know specifically what the cause is.
it started with cataclysm and concluded with mists.
This is the last thing I will say on the matter. Dailies are just one of the revamped additions to the endgame. Everything else is still there. Implying that the game is all about dailies, is literally just a gripe that you hav to do dailies instead of getting free gear.
Lets say I have a hairbrush...and my hair brust can brush my hair, and scratch my back.......lets say they add the ability for it to brush your teeth (while keeping the ability to do everything else it always did), so you now start crying that you have a huge tooth brush...doesnt make sense right? Nobody is forced to do dailies, its a choice you have. I completely agree that dailies are the worst thing added to the game, but it doesnt affect me in the least, i just dont do them...I just do all of the other endgame the game has always had...my playstyle from all the previous expansions is the same...nothing has been removed (content wise)....if you hate dailies, dont do dailies. If dailies are the "only" thing to do (in your opinion), then why are you even subbed if you literally dont like any of the other conent?
I had my reservations about the new talent system when MOP dropped but once you start to see it in action, particularly at 90, you will see that there are so many more viable ways to play each class compared to before.
My buddy and I both run Disc priests in PvP and have completely different talent setups. Neither of us can argue who's works better because each build works for the way we like to play.
In the old talent system, there was absolutely no difference between our builds and if we strayed away from the optimal build we simply weren't as effective.
Bottom line, the new talent system is a very good addition to the game.
Thats my point though...take away the option of doing dailies, and the exact same endgame is available to you as there was in vanilla/BC/Wotlk.
To claim the game is all about dailies now is mind boggling...its just another option you have if you so choose...
Is far superior to any other itterations of talent systems in any game ever?
Yeah I agree.
Its nice to have ACTUAL choice rather than just the illusion of choice which was really just an idiot check. Herp derp go online and look up best build and use it. Now you actually can pick a play style and you have real choices...
But I don't expect you to understand that, after all, you hate progression and thereby progress it seems.
There are sites that track armory and see who picked what talents.
Most of them are evenly distributed 3 ways.
So its nice that people make wild vague unsubstantiated claims about how the new system is soooo cookie cutter, but facts simply prove that you are making it up as you go along.
Oh man, where to begin with this. I love it when people overemphasize 'revolutionary' features of other MMOs just because they are not WoW.
Did you just really called SWTOR superior to WoW? Maybe you forgot what happened to it. There is not a single thing in there that WoW could use.
TERA? Dude, dude. C'mon. I'll give you credit for combat system, but everything else?
GW2 is the strongest contender for WoW but it didn't go all to well for them, even with B2P system.
You would be surprised how many people came to WoW from those games.
GW2 and TERA do have something good, but they pretty much fail at other areas, especially TERA. While WoW doesn't excel at anything, it does everything else fine, in average, which is, in my opinion, better.
The same could be said about the original EQ
I tried playing the original EQ after playing modern MMO's and I couldn't get into it. But for those who were subscribers at the begginning it's one of the greatest games ever and many still play and enjoy it.
Why? because it is one of the greatest games ever. Just because I didn't get into it doesn't mean it wasn't great.
A few years ago, at the height of WoW and a string of games coming out claiming to be WoW killers, many of us were saying, the only thing that'll kill WoW is time. And that's what is happening now. There is not or will never be a WoW killer, only age and players moving after years of enjoyment. And let's face it. WoW in decline is still bigger than anything else out there.
I agree. I hated the old system. You would almost have to go back to Vanilla talent for system I liked.
The new system is the best system they have had in a long, long time.
well, i don't know what to tell you.. that's how i feel.
you're saying it doesn't effect you because you chose not to do them and just raid or whatever but what about people who don't raid.
i mainly do pvp battlegrounds, craft... try to earn money, explore and do achievements and collect stuff.
dailies appeared to me as the main source of all of that... crafting mats/to earn money, exclusive pets and items aligned to that factions, enabling me to get better pvp gear so i could actually compete in battlegrounds, etc.
i do agree with that on the surface not much has changed in terms of how end game looks but the way i feel while playing has completely changed so maybe the problem is with me, i don't know but i can't change the way i feel.
i have like 8 characters, i logged in and attempted to do dailies and would get bored and end up logging off.
it was like, "i'm off to work now"... but i don't see what else i can do beside dailies, it seems to be the major source of focus for most things.
This thread was interesting till someone said if you don't like dailies mmo's aren't for you..
Hahahahaha oh my how people who played WoW first have no idea, not a single clue.
Not gonna rag on WoW it does a good enough job on it's own, but if you think dailies are an example of good MMO content I weep for the genre.
Continue on I'm done rambling
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Who said if you don't like dailies, you dont like MMOs? Iv been active in this thread for a bit, an I dont recall reading that lol.
Maybe im wrong, please quote it.
Dailies are complete trash, all I am trying to get accross is that WoW is not all about dailies, they are just an addition to the already exisitng endgame content.
In all the years of playing WoW, dailies are my least favorite thing about the game,
Not trade chat - I can ignore it
Not guild drama - probably my second least favorite thing
Not gear score elitism - just went and got better gear
Not poop quests - they just make me roll my eyes
Seriously, it's Dailies. They probably look good on paper but in practice, for me, they just make an MMO feel like a job.
But for those who enjoy dailies, more power to you.
cut the ends off of it because it was a bunch of longwindedness with no real point. it's on page 4 if you wanna wade through the whole post
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I think's hes basically saying all MMOs have them, which, is 98% accurate. Not to mention his wider point (which you conviently removed) was that the OP perhaps doesn't like questing in general, which is a staple of MMOs.
EQ2 fan sites
Im going to quote my entire response, simply because i need to stop editing it :P
This highlights why I still play WoW....I HATE questing...I HATE dailies....I LOVE doing group content and dungons....which WoW enables you to do get into so easily (Dungon Finder, where many other Themeparks fail epicly). I have leveled at least 3 toons from 1-85 simply by running dungons and PVP...you can literally level a toon from 1-90 in a comparable amount of time without doing a single quest, which I relish.
i LOVE questing --- I *despise* dailies
takes "wack-a-mole" to a new level of tedium
EQ2 fan sites
I can see how someone can relate the healing mechaincs in trinity games to "wack a mole"....I hate dailies prob more than most, but I fail to see how "kill 10 lizzards" over and over is any differen from "kill 10 boars, then kill 10 birds, then kill 10 chickens".
Fetch and kill quests in MMOs are still fetch and kill quests....who cares what you are fetching or killing? You do more fetch and kill quests leveing from 1-90 than you would do getting max rep in every MoP faction.
We can all agree that dailies suck ballz....and I am pretty sure we can all agree that MoP isnt "All about dailies".
this is an editorial about WOW dailies that I agree with
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/11/know-your-lore-dailies-and-story-development/
Dailies and obligation
In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.
And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.
it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.
This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.
At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.
EQ2 fan sites
you dont like questing
i doubt you can relate -- its all the same drudgery to you
for me - i enjoy questing as long as it has some form of story progression and is *not* repetitive
EQ2 fan sites
This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.
If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).