A game where lore is an afterthought and is not integral to the game. Feature bingo, where developers pick out of a features basket which they plugin rather than building into the virtual world/lore.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
1. Instancing everything, a little was ok in EQ at first, then it seemed like people took it and ran with it, to where their are no more open dungeons in most games.
2. Catering to the 'now', leveling and skill gain have become too quickly for my taste, I played TOR, and I maxed out a crafting skill in like one not very long session. I know this doesn't get most people, but if I ddidn't have to do much to 'max' aspects of my character, it doesn't seem to work for me, or mean much.
3. Crafting / Harvesting / Housing - These have become afterthoughts in most MMOs that are mostly useless for the crafting/harvesting or very bland. Housing, I dislike instanced housing, and it is something that devs decide is not worth it usually. I get it,since mmos seem to be catering more to the mmo jumper, and f2p, and those people generally do not care for housing, as they will not be staying anyway.
4. Less sandbox type features, things seemed to be getting pur themeparked, rails, super quest hubbed, kinda goes along with #3. Then everything turns into daily quest/dungeon grinds as the content to keep people playing. I almost never find this to be enjoyable. It feels like I have a checklist of 'must do' things. Some of the newer MMOs are starting to throw some sandbox back into things, Archeage, EQnext, WoD to name a few in development.
5. Story/VO/Hero stuff - I don't want some forced story, that to be honest feels lame in every mmo I have played or is poorly done. The cut scenes take me out of the game, and I generally cut them short 90% of the time. I would rather read it and not be taken away. The hero stuff, was real bad in Rift, they acted like I was the savior, that everything was done to insure I could save them, but theirs hundreds of other saviors running around....I don't need NPCs kissing my butt.
6. F2P - I don't refuse to play them (sometimes I do), but not a huge fan. I would rather pay a sub, but I do not play 5-10 MMOs at a time. I do not like feeling like the game is trying to squeeze money out of me the whole time I am playing it. Some are worse than others. I know even P2P games have cash shops too, which is annoying, but the squeeze feeling is generally not there for them, its usually some stupid mount or whatever (any of these that offer more than cosmetic are suspect to me).
Last MMO that I enjoyed a lot of these aspects was Vanguard, it suffered from bad coding and bugs, but it atleast had an attempt to deliver something a little more. IT had flaws and compromises, but if it would of been coded a little better, it could of really taken off imo. It had a lot of depth to many of its systems imo. It was far from perfect, but I atleast felt like they tried to deliver something more than a small super railed quest hub world (although it did have hubs, but felt less railed).
So yes, I don't find as much enjoyment in most newer MMOs. My shortest time ever playing a MMO was over a year, till I played Rift (3 months), and it has gotten shorter since then. I played UO/EQ for 6-8 years total each with a couple breaks in each for my longest.
Voted for the cut-scenes because they don't add anything to the game for me. I have enough imagination to visualize how a conversation might go when I read the quest text (something most players just don't do...).
On the other 2 things, I can only say:
Linear story, well, you gotta have story progression in your game. I think you actually meant railroaded storytelling like most 'WoW-clones' do these days, where you hop from one quest to the next and from one zone to an other. Yeah, I hate that, but the linear story itself is not a bad thing...
No holy trinity. That one made me LOL and is so 'WoW-clone' (yeah again...). Certain MMOs just don't stick to it and you can party the way you want. Okay, 1 tank and 1 healer is preferred, but if you have no tanks, 5 DPS and 2 healers and you can manage then who cares? I actually think that the 'holy trinity' as brought to us by the 'WoW-clones' is a bad thing and kinde makes you wait for that one class you're missing...
Originally posted by WhiteLantern The "my genre has been ruined" hipsters. Definitely the most annoying trend.
Well it has. I'm just waiting for the MMO to be released that has one ability labeled "I Win". I bet it would be a huge success. /sarcasm
But seriously, there are a lot of trends that have irritated me. Group finders, linear progression, "?" and "!" over quest givers heads, maps that show you where to go, and many other little things have all caused the sense adventure and discovery to vanish from MMOs for me.
Specific example: Today's MMO's are just boring theme parks!
News flash old MMOs, and even quite a few new MMOs are boring! Have always been boring, and are like working a second job. Sandbox, theme park, doesn't matter. Different title with the same community, and same shit.
The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.
To me, instanced PvP is definitely the worst feature trend that MMO's have taken on. The main reason I play MMO's is for meaningful PvP/RvR. I'm hoping ESO can deliver on that. Camelot Unchained too.
Lockout timers. I'm a huge fan of dungeon crawling and love spending hours working my way through a dungeon or camping a spot with friends. Lockout timers have destroyed this style of gameplay since most dungeon mobs no longer respawn.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dungeon finder (that not only finds the party for you, but also port you inside and gives you reward for using it) WHAT A JOKE
No death penalty
No holy trinity
No or simple character customization
Too easy and fast character progression (you are maxxed out in weeks but it should take months/years)
Too easy and fast leveling
There are a lot more crap that are used in recently released mmorpgs .. worst of them are just making the whole mmorpg easyer and just simple. The worst thing about it is, you just follow points or arrows, click find group, etc. and you dont have to use brain ever. Do we have arrows and pointers, instant grouping up, instant whatever in real life? No we dont ... MMORPGs were ment to simulate real life in fantasy world. Nowdays mmorpgs are just ... I dont even know the word tbh. just sad
It has NOTHING to do with evolution. Its because all the developers are tryeing to copy WoW and some of its features but that will only work in WoW. So now we are getting dumped down, simple mmorpgs targeting all kinds of audiece, from total casuals to HC and then just ending up failing ...
Developers ... Just make mmorpg with complex customization, not easy and fast leveling, hard maxxing out gear game with good gameplay, story and content and you have nothing to worry about. CREATING ALTS EVERY WEEK OR MONTH IS NOT FUN!
nothing is hard to obtain (compared to the dedication it took a few years ago)
no trinity (yes i feel the trinity should maybe be a polygon but DEFINE roles darn it)
pvp balance turns every class the same and ruins pve
INSTANCE....EVERYTHING!
solo......... almost everything!
FUCKING CASH SHOPS in EVERY game type
zero realm pride
zero server pride
here let us mark where damage will occur... no run out of that area 5 seconds before it happens, good boy, here is a free epic
Agree on all and ROFL!
About 2 factions... Pre-determined factions in general are a NO-NO for me. Most MMORPGs using are the ones I skip (unless I can kill my own faction as well as in Fallen Earth and ArcheAge soon).
On Cash shops... No problems here as long as there are no game-breaking things in it. If ppl want to spend money on pixels to 'look good' or 'level faster', be my guest. I'll do without and enjoy the game as much as the buyers do
PvP balance..? Played Lineage II and there used to be NO BALANCE there at all in PvP. The GoD update kinda killed it for me (no I did not play the power classes but enjoyed the 'underdog' classes more only to show how you can kick ass with them )
The most annoying feature trend in MMOs, is in my opinion, poeple whining about how good MMOs used to be, and how the genre has been ruined.
Not even remotely restricted only to MMOs.
I have considered making it an icon; but probably illegible at icon-size.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The most annoying feature trend in MMOs, is in my opinion, poeple whining about how good MMOs used to be, and how the genre has been ruined.
On a more serious note, Cash shops and dungeon finders are my 2 pet hates.
Not complaints, simply statements of fact. Anyone who disputes that the quality of "the experience" now is as good as it was pre WoW, just never played MMOs back then.
MMOs are now watered down to an "everybody wins" and "let us do that for you" model.
nothing is hard to obtain (compared to the dedication it took a few years ago)
no trinity (yes i feel the trinity should maybe be a polygon but DEFINE roles darn it)
pvp balance turns every class the same and ruins pve
INSTANCE....EVERYTHING! THE WORST ONE
solo......... almost everything!
FUCKING CASH SHOPS in EVERY game type
zero realm pride
zero server pride YES
here let us mark where damage will occur... no run out of that area 5 seconds before it happens, good boy, here is a free epic
I agree with all but 1 here. I highlighted the ones I especially agree with... It is so frustrating to see game after game being made with these. I don't mind getting rid of the trinity, I can live with or without it because theres many ways to make combat good.
Not even remotely restricted only to MMOs.
I have considered making it an icon; but probably illegible at icon-size.
You just blew my mind man, I thought that saying was impossible but now I see there was a hill between home and the school. I need to learn to think out of the box more.
Comments
All immersion breakers: mini maps, AH, instances, port travel, global chat, mini games...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
1. Instancing everything, a little was ok in EQ at first, then it seemed like people took it and ran with it, to where their are no more open dungeons in most games.
2. Catering to the 'now', leveling and skill gain have become too quickly for my taste, I played TOR, and I maxed out a crafting skill in like one not very long session. I know this doesn't get most people, but if I ddidn't have to do much to 'max' aspects of my character, it doesn't seem to work for me, or mean much.
3. Crafting / Harvesting / Housing - These have become afterthoughts in most MMOs that are mostly useless for the crafting/harvesting or very bland. Housing, I dislike instanced housing, and it is something that devs decide is not worth it usually. I get it,since mmos seem to be catering more to the mmo jumper, and f2p, and those people generally do not care for housing, as they will not be staying anyway.
4. Less sandbox type features, things seemed to be getting pur themeparked, rails, super quest hubbed, kinda goes along with #3. Then everything turns into daily quest/dungeon grinds as the content to keep people playing. I almost never find this to be enjoyable. It feels like I have a checklist of 'must do' things. Some of the newer MMOs are starting to throw some sandbox back into things, Archeage, EQnext, WoD to name a few in development.
5. Story/VO/Hero stuff - I don't want some forced story, that to be honest feels lame in every mmo I have played or is poorly done. The cut scenes take me out of the game, and I generally cut them short 90% of the time. I would rather read it and not be taken away. The hero stuff, was real bad in Rift, they acted like I was the savior, that everything was done to insure I could save them, but theirs hundreds of other saviors running around....I don't need NPCs kissing my butt.
6. F2P - I don't refuse to play them (sometimes I do), but not a huge fan. I would rather pay a sub, but I do not play 5-10 MMOs at a time. I do not like feeling like the game is trying to squeeze money out of me the whole time I am playing it. Some are worse than others. I know even P2P games have cash shops too, which is annoying, but the squeeze feeling is generally not there for them, its usually some stupid mount or whatever (any of these that offer more than cosmetic are suspect to me).
Last MMO that I enjoyed a lot of these aspects was Vanguard, it suffered from bad coding and bugs, but it atleast had an attempt to deliver something a little more. IT had flaws and compromises, but if it would of been coded a little better, it could of really taken off imo. It had a lot of depth to many of its systems imo. It was far from perfect, but I atleast felt like they tried to deliver something more than a small super railed quest hub world (although it did have hubs, but felt less railed).
So yes, I don't find as much enjoyment in most newer MMOs. My shortest time ever playing a MMO was over a year, till I played Rift (3 months), and it has gotten shorter since then. I played UO/EQ for 6-8 years total each with a couple breaks in each for my longest.
Voted for the cut-scenes because they don't add anything to the game for me. I have enough imagination to visualize how a conversation might go when I read the quest text (something most players just don't do...).
On the other 2 things, I can only say:
Linear story, well, you gotta have story progression in your game. I think you actually meant railroaded storytelling like most 'WoW-clones' do these days, where you hop from one quest to the next and from one zone to an other. Yeah, I hate that, but the linear story itself is not a bad thing...
No holy trinity. That one made me LOL and is so 'WoW-clone' (yeah again...). Certain MMOs just don't stick to it and you can party the way you want. Okay, 1 tank and 1 healer is preferred, but if you have no tanks, 5 DPS and 2 healers and you can manage then who cares? I actually think that the 'holy trinity' as brought to us by the 'WoW-clones' is a bad thing and kinde makes you wait for that one class you're missing...
Most annoying trends.......
Giving in to the whiners
and
Big shoulder armor
Well it has. I'm just waiting for the MMO to be released that has one ability labeled "I Win". I bet it would be a huge success. /sarcasm
But seriously, there are a lot of trends that have irritated me. Group finders, linear progression, "?" and "!" over quest givers heads, maps that show you where to go, and many other little things have all caused the sense adventure and discovery to vanish from MMOs for me.
Jaded gamers who like to whine needs to be added.
Specific example: Today's MMO's are just boring theme parks!
News flash old MMOs, and even quite a few new MMOs are boring! Have always been boring, and are like working a second job. Sandbox, theme park, doesn't matter. Different title with the same community, and same shit.
The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.
Yeah these absolutely ruined TSW for me....The game didn't even feel like a MMO because it was so overdone.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I didn't get that at all. Maybe you are just too sensitive about your beloved GW2.
I'm not sure I would call them hipsters. That would be an insult to "my game is ruined" whiners. Hipsters are far more objectionable.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dungeon finder (that not only finds the party for you, but also port you inside and gives you reward for using it) WHAT A JOKE
No death penalty
No holy trinity
No or simple character customization
Too easy and fast character progression (you are maxxed out in weeks but it should take months/years)
Too easy and fast leveling
There are a lot more crap that are used in recently released mmorpgs .. worst of them are just making the whole mmorpg easyer and just simple. The worst thing about it is, you just follow points or arrows, click find group, etc. and you dont have to use brain ever. Do we have arrows and pointers, instant grouping up, instant whatever in real life? No we dont ... MMORPGs were ment to simulate real life in fantasy world. Nowdays mmorpgs are just ... I dont even know the word tbh. just sad
It has NOTHING to do with evolution. Its because all the developers are tryeing to copy WoW and some of its features but that will only work in WoW. So now we are getting dumped down, simple mmorpgs targeting all kinds of audiece, from total casuals to HC and then just ending up failing ...
Developers ... Just make mmorpg with complex customization, not easy and fast leveling, hard maxxing out gear game with good gameplay, story and content and you have nothing to worry about. CREATING ALTS EVERY WEEK OR MONTH IS NOT FUN!
1. GW2 is not beloved by me if you read more of my posts I have many bad things to say
2. Can you think of any other games that have all 6 of the 'trends' he lists? Especially the 2 I mention in my last post.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Trends that annoy me:
2 factions
"everyone is the hero" story line
nothing is hard to obtain (compared to the dedication it took a few years ago)
no trinity (yes i feel the trinity should maybe be a polygon but DEFINE roles darn it)
pvp balance turns every class the same and ruins pve
INSTANCE....EVERYTHING!
solo......... almost everything!
FUCKING CASH SHOPS in EVERY game type
zero realm pride
zero server pride
here let us mark where damage will occur... no run out of that area 5 seconds before it happens, good boy, here is a free epic
Agree on all and ROFL!
About 2 factions... Pre-determined factions in general are a NO-NO for me. Most MMORPGs using are the ones I skip (unless I can kill my own faction as well as in Fallen Earth and ArcheAge soon).
On Cash shops... No problems here as long as there are no game-breaking things in it. If ppl want to spend money on pixels to 'look good' or 'level faster', be my guest. I'll do without and enjoy the game as much as the buyers do
PvP balance..? Played Lineage II and there used to be NO BALANCE there at all in PvP. The GoD update kinda killed it for me (no I did not play the power classes but enjoyed the 'underdog' classes more only to show how you can kick ass with them
)
The most annoying feature trend in MMOs, is in my opinion, poeple whining about how good MMOs used to be, and how the genre has been ruined.
On a more serious note, Cash shops and dungeon finders are my 2 pet hates.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I have considered making it an icon; but probably illegible at icon-size.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not complaints, simply statements of fact. Anyone who disputes that the quality of "the experience" now is as good as it was pre WoW, just never played MMOs back then.
MMOs are now watered down to an "everybody wins" and "let us do that for you" model.
I agree with all but 1 here. I highlighted the ones I especially agree with... It is so frustrating to see game after game being made with these. I don't mind getting rid of the trinity, I can live with or without it because theres many ways to make combat good.
You just blew my mind man, I thought that saying was impossible but now I see there was a hill between home and the school. I need to learn to think out of the box more.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.