Actually PW is in charge of the monetization. I love it I play a little each week and get loads of currency to use for whatever I want in STO. Do it across two toons and you'll have all of what you need for one in no time. It's a great system. If you want it all right this second sure spend the money, but you don't have to, the game isn't designed to force you to do the hardest stuff and have to have the best ever gear in order to do said questing, nor is it designed to cutoff people from seeing content if you aren't geared like the elephant in the room, AHEM WoW and others like WoW.
Really baffled about why people are having a problem with this unless they're really just haters on anything F2P vs Sub.
The Cryptic/PW concept is simply that you can use the credit card to obviate the grind or time sink present somewhere or other in the game. Heaven forbid we could have F2P games minus a cash shop, though unless a F2P game actively patches in content fast then they are effectively generating sub level revenue from their gamer base minus the new content. Usually F2P cash shop games simply try to make money two ways, box or download purchase and then they nickel and dime you over convenience, say by cash shop purchase of fast access to extra inventory slots or by instant access to in-game item currency, or xp pots...t'is a dirty way to fleece thy gamer and ye game maste's of old with their 20-sided dices surely didn't do the same in D&D games..or did they?
When he goes to say "i dont have to worry about geting subscriptions and only making a great game" that is a lie straight from the horses mouth
If anything its harder to make a f2p game that doesnt immediatly kill itself from the negative stigma that most f2p games get for being a pay 2 win games, you have to work even harder to make a game that still gives you enough revenue to stay afloat and add new content whill also not being pay 2 win, so many f2p's are forgotten and left to rot because they are pay 2 wins (Allods anyone?) VERY few f2p's get it right, where as p2p games are simple, make a amazing game and charge a small fee for it, WoW/Rift/EvE/GW2 all do this and are highly successfull
Doing f2p right is not easy, but it is easy to do it wrong
STO is more "successful" not because of anything Cryptic did or does...but because the Star Trek franchise comes built in with millions of fans, and if Cryptic owned the IP like it does in Champions Online, you can bet your bottom dollar that STO would be languishing in the same neglected state that CO is right at this moment. Underdeveloped, neglected, shortstaffed, and generally forgotten about. Thank God Cryptic has to answer to someone else(that isn't PWI, either) or STO would be dead too.
Also...about never having to pay to get things from the shop....Astral Diamonds convert to zen.....only if someone that PAID FOR the zen in the first place puts it up for conversion. I sincerely doubt that Cryptic or PW will fund Astral to Zen out of the goodness of their hearts. So in reality, the "never pay" system relies on SOMEONE paying....just not you. If nobody that plays this game when it comes out EVER wants to trade cash zen purchases for Astral Diamonds...you can bet dollars to donuts that no amount of gameplay will ever be able to enable a player to buy things in the store without forking out cash money.
So, that's a little white lie from Mr. Emmert. Well, two. Well, more if you count his promises about development, communication and other things in Champions Online and STO.
When he goes to say "i dont have to worry about geting subscriptions and only making a great game" that is a lie straight from the horses mouth If anything its harder to make a f2p game that doesnt immediatly kill itself from the negative stigma that most f2p games get for being a pay 2 win games, you have to work even harder to make a game that still gives you enough revenue to stay afloat and add new content whill also not being pay 2 win, so many f2p's are forgotten and left to rot because they are pay 2 wins (Allods anyone?) VERY few f2p's get it right, where as p2p games are simple, make a amazing game and charge a small fee for it, WoW/Rift/EvE/GW2 all do this and are highly successfull Doing f2p right is not easy, but it is easy to do it wrong
I see it as just the opposite. I think part of the reason that we old time MMO gamers think that the original MMO crop were better, is that: they were. Why? Because back then EVERY MMO was sub based, so you didn't have to worry about monetization models and content churn for your cash shop and build game mechanics around making people need to use the cash shop. Instead, you made the best game you could, in order to get those subs. Somewhere along the line, the F2P gimmick game mechanics became more important than building in those things that were actually fun.
what I've seen is that you have to use Astral Diamonds in the game.
...but you also make a decent amount as a totally free player, at least, from my time in the beta. I earned at least 10K diamonds over the beta weekend, and I wasn't trying very hard.
What to ride the lvl 40 or lvl 60 mount? Need to fork of Astral Diamonds.
The mounts for 40-60 cost gold (10g and 20g). If you want a 40-60 Nightmare mount, or a mount that looks like a tiger, then you pay AD. But a "level 3 mount" can be bought with in-game gold. I was at 20g by level 30 in the beta, waaay before I needed a L2 mount, so they aren't stingy.
Want to buy something off the AH? Fork over some Astral Diamonds.
That's the currency for the AH. But you do realize you can stand in a field and hit CTRL-I and get 1500 AD, right?
Companion upgrades? Astral Diamonds.
Upgrades get dropped in the world as well. And are also awarded as quest rewards. If you want a higher-ranked Rune, you can combine the ones you find as drops (no cost) into a higher-ranked Rune.
Want wome good quality gear? Fork over some Astral Diamonds. (There are some seal/token vendors)
Or just earn it from questing. Or buy blues from a vendor for gold. Heck, a 20-minute instance run netted me gear better than what they were selling for AD for a level 20 cleric, that's for sure.
Want a new companion? Give em some Astral Diamonds.
You get them for free from quests, don't have to pay anything for them. By level 30 I had gotten three, and you don't have to pay a single AD for them.
If you want a hawk, or an elemental, or a ghost companion, you pay AD. But a standard man-at-arms is just as good as an ele. So, again, pay AD for the skin.
Very well stated. The "cost" of playing the game appears to be consistently exaggerated. It appears that just about everything can be earned simply by playing the game.
Except that your ability to gain "refined" AD (the ones you actually spend) is gated by a daily limit. So, technically, yes... you don't "have to" buy anything from the store, but if you don't, you'll be waiting for an extremely long time getting that stuff. This is a typical F2P "scam" where if you don't pay, your gameplay will suffer immensely, due the inherent penalties of not paying. And make no mistake, the game was explicitly designed to be this way. And no, trying to buy that stuff in the AH for gold is not viable, either.
(sigh) Did you not read my post? Anything in the game can be gotten without AD. Anything. It might not be a black, on-fire something, or it may not be the exact something with a fancy glowy graphic that can be purchased with AD, but it's pretty darn similar.
I'm not going to bat for this game, I enjoy playing it but I'm not a fanboi. It has issues and things I don't like.
But implying "you can't buy things from the AH if you don't pay" or "you'll be waiting a long time to get something" isn't true. This depends upon what you want. And not upon what you need.
If you've just got to have some specific thing or specific look, that may be the case. But that's the "ooh, shiny!" scenario. You don't need that stuff to play the game or enjoy it. You're not missing something. It's just the difference of a rock-golem skin, or a guy with a sword and shield. They functionally work just as well as the ones you get from quests for free.
I have no issues with legitimate problems with their model, but saying you can't get a level 3 mount or good items or a companion without paying is false information.
Well, that's not "anything" then, now is it? And when the AH prices go nuts because of the farmers/bots, it will be even worse. The fact is that a good number of items will be cash shop only, by way of refined AD, and in game acquisition of that is purposely limited. The title of the thread and the blurb from the developers say "Get everything you want by playing." Well, the point is, unless you are willing to spend untold time grinding everything, that is not going to happen in any reasonable amount of time, unless you pay real money, which is the point (and whether or not "similar" items are available is irrelevant to your claims and those of the devs).
Wait aren't you one of those that posted in another thread that instant gratification was bad for games? Aren't you one of the old school EQ players where if you wanted something decent you had to grind raids and dungeons for weeks to get it? So your point now is you won't be able to get items easy enough in a F2P game.that you will have to grind Astral diamonds much like you had to grind raids and dugeons to get items bavck in EQ?.
When he goes to say "i dont have to worry about geting subscriptions and only making a great game" that is a lie straight from the horses mouth
If anything its harder to make a f2p game that doesnt immediatly kill itself from the negative stigma that most f2p games get for being a pay 2 win games, you have to work even harder to make a game that still gives you enough revenue to stay afloat and add new content whill also not being pay 2 win, so many f2p's are forgotten and left to rot because they are pay 2 wins (Allods anyone?) VERY few f2p's get it right, where as p2p games are simple, make a amazing game and charge a small fee for it, WoW/Rift/EvE/GW2 all do this and are highly successfull
Doing f2p right is not easy, but it is easy to do it wrong
I see it as just the opposite. I think part of the reason that we old time MMO gamers think that the original MMO crop were better, is that: they were. Why? Because back then EVERY MMO was sub based, so you didn't have to worry about monetization models and content churn for your cash shop and build game mechanics around making people need to use the cash shop. Instead, you made the best game you could, in order to get those subs. Somewhere along the line, the F2P gimmick game mechanics became more important than building in those things that were actually fun.
Some old games were great, but let's be honest about them. They had huge time sinks in place for the sole purpose of keeping you subbing longer. It wasn't some golden paradise where they focused on developing gaming utoopia. Patches and updates were much more sparse, but then again the sub was actually that. I mean the sub paid for it all. Now all the sub games pad that with a cash shop or rmt of some sort (time tokens, game cash conversions, micro-transactions, xpac and box fee sales, etc).
Even if a game offered the entire package for the sub fee again I don't think I want to rent temporary access to my games anymore. I like being able to hop into any one of them when I feel like wthout having to pony up cash.
yea i payed for numerous games over the years and it would be months upon months with not a single content patch.. just back then you didn't have the option as most all MMOs were sub based and you had a very small selection overall anyway.. i had fun in many older MMOs but i try not to get caught up in nastalgia and pretend some were something more than they were.. i thought FFV(or FF2 in US) on snes was the best game ever when it came out.. i have it now on my android phone and get bored after playing it for 10 minutes. People expect more these days as games evolve and progress, its mostly why I can't play many of the older games now. They feel clunky, outdated, and just not that much fun.. if this wasn't the case why not just play the old MMOs they are mostly all still going.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But as we all know, inflation and farmers are going to make this time sync unachievable for most people, only the full time 8 hour a day players are going to have the option to acquire everything without paying........allot more than 15 a month.
This is a just marketing spew. Its no different then saying, hey everyone can become a millionaire all you have to do is get a million people to give you a dollar, now go get started!!!!!
But as we all know, inflation and farmers are going to make this time sync unachievable for most people, only the full time 8 hour a day players are going to have the option to acquire everything without paying........allot more than 15 a month.
This is a just marketing spew. Its no different then saying, hey everyone can become a millionaire all you have to do is get a million people to give you a dollar, now go get started!!!!!
Go on to Star Trek Online, check the dilithium exchange, check the daily limit on refining dilithium (which you can max pretty easily if you know what you're doing) and then check back, I'll have your ass on a platter waiting (sorry but such ignorance deserves nothing more).
Some old games were great, but let's be honest about them. They had huge time sinks in place for the sole purpose of keeping you subbing longer. It wasn't some golden paradise where they focused on developing gaming utoopia. Patches and updates were much more sparse, but then again the sub was actually that. I mean the sub paid for it all. Now all the sub games pad that with a cash shop or rmt of some sort (time tokens, game cash conversions, micro-transactions, xpac and box fee sales, etc).
Even if a game offered the entire package for the sub fee again I don't think I want to rent temporary access to my games anymore. I like being able to hop into any one of them when I feel like wthout having to pony up cash.
yea i payed for numerous games over the years and it would be months upon months with not a single content patch.. just back then you didn't have the option as most all MMOs were sub based and you had a very small selection overall anyway.. i had fun in many older MMOs but i try not to get caught up in nastalgia and pretend some were something more than they were.. i thought FFV(or FF2 in US) on snes was the best game ever when it came out.. i have it now on my android phone and get bored after playing it for 10 minutes. People expect more these days as games evolve and progress, its mostly why I can't play many of the older games now. They feel clunky, outdated, and just not that much fun.. if this wasn't the case why not just play the old MMOs they are mostly all still going.
Yep, me too (except the Android thing). The part I highlighted in orange stands out to me most. Those who so often wax nostalgic always seem to come up with an excuse as to why they won't play the old games now. What I hear most often is that the game patched in some way that "ruined" it fo them. There is ToA, Trammel, NGE, or some other infamous patch or update that "dumbed down the game to make it a WoW clone".
Do those people really think that if their vanilla version of a game launched today it would fly? Worse yet are those who think their hand-picked set of changes would have revitalized the game.
I think that all games eventually do "just end". At some point you've done about all you're going to do and it will be time to move on. They're a lot like tv shows in that regard. Even the longest running shows like Dr. Who have to reinvent themselves periodically or they stale.
because both my faverite MMOs where shut down thats why im not playing them anymore. ( earth and beyound, CoH)
i do understand what your saying nad you are right on this point for the most part, but there is another factor your forgetting.
no matter how great a game is after you have played it over and over every class and through the story so many times. . . .it get olb and burnt out filling. no matter how great it is you wont do it forever.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by Lanessar Originally posted by Burntvet Originally posted by Rohn Originally posted by Lanessar Originally posted by furbans what I've seen is that you have to use Astral Diamonds in the game....but you also make a decent amount as a totally free player, at least, from my time in the beta. I earned at least 10K diamonds over the beta weekend, and I wasn't trying very hard.What to ride the lvl 40 or lvl 60 mount? Need to fork of Astral Diamonds.The mounts for 40-60 cost gold (10g and 20g). If you want a 40-60 Nightmare mount, or a mount that looks like a tiger, then you pay AD. But a "level 3 mount" can be bought with in-game gold. I was at 20g by level 30 in the beta, waaay before I needed a L2 mount, so they aren't stingy.Want to buy something off the AH? Fork over some Astral Diamonds.That's the currency for the AH. But you do realize you can stand in a field and hit CTRL-I and get 1500 AD, right?Companion upgrades? Astral Diamonds.Upgrades get dropped in the world as well. And are also awarded as quest rewards. If you want a higher-ranked Rune, you can combine the ones you find as drops (no cost) into a higher-ranked Rune.Want wome good quality gear? Fork over some Astral Diamonds. (There are some seal/token vendors)Or just earn it from questing. Or buy blues from a vendor for gold. Heck, a 20-minute instance run netted me gear better than what they were selling for AD for a level 20 cleric, that's for sure.Want a new companion? Give em some Astral Diamonds.You get them for free from quests, don't have to pay anything for them. By level 30 I had gotten three, and you don't have to pay a single AD for them. If you want a hawk, or an elemental, or a ghost companion, you pay AD. But a standard man-at-arms is just as good as an ele. So, again, pay AD for the skin.
Very well stated. The "cost" of playing the game appears to be consistently exaggerated. It appears that just about everything can be earned simply by playing the game.
Except that your ability to gain "refined" AD (the ones you actually spend) is gated by a daily limit. So, technically, yes... you don't "have to" buy anything from the store, but if you don't, you'll be waiting for an extremely long time getting that stuff. This is a typical F2P "scam" where if you don't pay, your gameplay will suffer immensely, due the inherent penalties of not paying. And make no mistake, the game was explicitly designed to be this way. And no, trying to buy that stuff in the AH for gold is not viable, either.
(sigh) Did you not read my post? Anything in the game can be gotten without AD. Anything. It might not be a black, on-fire something, or it may not be the exact something with a fancy glowy graphic that can be purchased with AD, but it's pretty darn similar.
I'm not going to bat for this game, I enjoy playing it but I'm not a fanboi. It has issues and things I don't like.
But implying "you can't buy things from the AH if you don't pay" or "you'll be waiting a long time to get something" isn't true. This depends upon what you want. And not upon what you need.
If you've just got to have some specific thing or specific look, that may be the case. But that's the "ooh, shiny!" scenario. You don't need that stuff to play the game or enjoy it. You're not missing something. It's just the difference of a rock-golem skin, or a guy with a sword and shield. They functionally work just as well as the ones you get from quests for free.
I have no issues with legitimate problems with their model, but saying you can't get a level 3 mount or good items or a companion without paying is false information.
Well, that's not "anything" then, now is it? And when the AH prices go nuts because of the farmers/bots, it will be even worse. The fact is that a good number of items will be cash shop only, by way of refined AD, and in game acquisition of that is purposely limited. The title of the thread and the blurb from the developers say "Get everything you want by playing." Well, the point is, unless you are willing to spend untold time grinding everything, that is not going to happen in any reasonable amount of time, unless you pay real money, which is the point (and whether or not "similar" items are available is irrelevant to your claims and those of the devs).
Wait aren't you one of those that posted in another thread that instant gratification was bad for games? Aren't you one of the old school EQ players where if you wanted something decent you had to grind raids and dungeons for weeks to get it? So your point now is you won't be able to get items easy enough in a F2P game.that you will have to grind Astral diamonds much like you had to grind raids and dugeons to get items bavck in EQ?.
Never did play EQ back in the day, but I did play UO, AC, and SWG. So it is not the time that bothers me as much as the lying BS from the devs/pubs for marketing purposes AND the fact that you can skip all that grind by whipping out that old CC for the 50th time. So, at least in the old games, the playing field was even, and whatever "grind" there was part of the overall game, not just in there as a penalty for not paying. "Get everything you want by playing..." Not effin likely.
Comments
The Cryptic/PW concept is simply that you can use the credit card to obviate the grind or time sink present somewhere or other in the game. Heaven forbid we could have F2P games minus a cash shop, though unless a F2P game actively patches in content fast then they are effectively generating sub level revenue from their gamer base minus the new content. Usually F2P cash shop games simply try to make money two ways, box or download purchase and then they nickel and dime you over convenience, say by cash shop purchase of fast access to extra inventory slots or by instant access to in-game item currency, or xp pots...t'is a dirty way to fleece thy gamer and ye game maste's of old with their 20-sided dices surely didn't do the same in D&D games..or did they?
When he goes to say "i dont have to worry about geting subscriptions and only making a great game" that is a lie straight from the horses mouth
If anything its harder to make a f2p game that doesnt immediatly kill itself from the negative stigma that most f2p games get for being a pay 2 win games, you have to work even harder to make a game that still gives you enough revenue to stay afloat and add new content whill also not being pay 2 win, so many f2p's are forgotten and left to rot because they are pay 2 wins (Allods anyone?) VERY few f2p's get it right, where as p2p games are simple, make a amazing game and charge a small fee for it, WoW/Rift/EvE/GW2 all do this and are highly successfull
Doing f2p right is not easy, but it is easy to do it wrong
Yeah........Mr. Emmert.
STO is more "successful" not because of anything Cryptic did or does...but because the Star Trek franchise comes built in with millions of fans, and if Cryptic owned the IP like it does in Champions Online, you can bet your bottom dollar that STO would be languishing in the same neglected state that CO is right at this moment. Underdeveloped, neglected, shortstaffed, and generally forgotten about. Thank God Cryptic has to answer to someone else(that isn't PWI, either) or STO would be dead too.
Also...about never having to pay to get things from the shop....Astral Diamonds convert to zen.....only if someone that PAID FOR the zen in the first place puts it up for conversion. I sincerely doubt that Cryptic or PW will fund Astral to Zen out of the goodness of their hearts. So in reality, the "never pay" system relies on SOMEONE paying....just not you. If nobody that plays this game when it comes out EVER wants to trade cash zen purchases for Astral Diamonds...you can bet dollars to donuts that no amount of gameplay will ever be able to enable a player to buy things in the store without forking out cash money.
So, that's a little white lie from Mr. Emmert. Well, two. Well, more if you count his promises about development, communication and other things in Champions Online and STO.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I see it as just the opposite. I think part of the reason that we old time MMO gamers think that the original MMO crop were better, is that: they were. Why? Because back then EVERY MMO was sub based, so you didn't have to worry about monetization models and content churn for your cash shop and build game mechanics around making people need to use the cash shop. Instead, you made the best game you could, in order to get those subs. Somewhere along the line, the F2P gimmick game mechanics became more important than building in those things that were actually fun.Wait aren't you one of those that posted in another thread that instant gratification was bad for games? Aren't you one of the old school EQ players where if you wanted something decent you had to grind raids and dungeons for weeks to get it? So your point now is you won't be able to get items easy enough in a F2P game.that you will have to grind Astral diamonds much like you had to grind raids and dugeons to get items bavck in EQ?.
yea i payed for numerous games over the years and it would be months upon months with not a single content patch.. just back then you didn't have the option as most all MMOs were sub based and you had a very small selection overall anyway.. i had fun in many older MMOs but i try not to get caught up in nastalgia and pretend some were something more than they were.. i thought FFV(or FF2 in US) on snes was the best game ever when it came out.. i have it now on my android phone and get bored after playing it for 10 minutes. People expect more these days as games evolve and progress, its mostly why I can't play many of the older games now. They feel clunky, outdated, and just not that much fun.. if this wasn't the case why not just play the old MMOs they are mostly all still going.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But as we all know, inflation and farmers are going to make this time sync unachievable for most people, only the full time 8 hour a day players are going to have the option to acquire everything without paying........allot more than 15 a month.
This is a just marketing spew. Its no different then saying, hey everyone can become a millionaire all you have to do is get a million people to give you a dollar, now go get started!!!!!
Go on to Star Trek Online, check the dilithium exchange, check the daily limit on refining dilithium (which you can max pretty easily if you know what you're doing) and then check back, I'll have your ass on a platter waiting (sorry but such ignorance deserves nothing more).
because both my faverite MMOs where shut down thats why im not playing them anymore. ( earth and beyound, CoH)
i do understand what your saying nad you are right on this point for the most part, but there is another factor your forgetting.
no matter how great a game is after you have played it over and over every class and through the story so many times. . . .it get olb and burnt out filling. no matter how great it is you wont do it forever.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Very well stated. The "cost" of playing the game appears to be consistently exaggerated. It appears that just about everything can be earned simply by playing the game.
Except that your ability to gain "refined" AD (the ones you actually spend) is gated by a daily limit. So, technically, yes... you don't "have to" buy anything from the store, but if you don't, you'll be waiting for an extremely long time getting that stuff. This is a typical F2P "scam" where if you don't pay, your gameplay will suffer immensely, due the inherent penalties of not paying. And make no mistake, the game was explicitly designed to be this way. And no, trying to buy that stuff in the AH for gold is not viable, either.(sigh) Did you not read my post? Anything in the game can be gotten without AD. Anything. It might not be a black, on-fire something, or it may not be the exact something with a fancy glowy graphic that can be purchased with AD, but it's pretty darn similar.
I'm not going to bat for this game, I enjoy playing it but I'm not a fanboi. It has issues and things I don't like.
But implying "you can't buy things from the AH if you don't pay" or "you'll be waiting a long time to get something" isn't true. This depends upon what you want. And not upon what you need.
If you've just got to have some specific thing or specific look, that may be the case. But that's the "ooh, shiny!" scenario. You don't need that stuff to play the game or enjoy it. You're not missing something. It's just the difference of a rock-golem skin, or a guy with a sword and shield. They functionally work just as well as the ones you get from quests for free.
Well, that's not "anything" then, now is it? And when the AH prices go nuts because of the farmers/bots, it will be even worse. The fact is that a good number of items will be cash shop only, by way of refined AD, and in game acquisition of that is purposely limited. The title of the thread and the blurb from the developers say "Get everything you want by playing." Well, the point is, unless you are willing to spend untold time grinding everything, that is not going to happen in any reasonable amount of time, unless you pay real money, which is the point (and whether or not "similar" items are available is irrelevant to your claims and those of the devs).Wait aren't you one of those that posted in another thread that instant gratification was bad for games? Aren't you one of the old school EQ players where if you wanted something decent you had to grind raids and dungeons for weeks to get it? So your point now is you won't be able to get items easy enough in a F2P game.that you will have to grind Astral diamonds much like you had to grind raids and dugeons to get items bavck in EQ?.
Never did play EQ back in the day, but I did play UO, AC, and SWG. So it is not the time that bothers me as much as the lying BS from the devs/pubs for marketing purposes AND the fact that you can skip all that grind by whipping out that old CC for the 50th time. So, at least in the old games, the playing field was even, and whatever "grind" there was part of the overall game, not just in there as a penalty for not paying. "Get everything you want by playing..." Not effin likely.