Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
People should stop and think..
seigard
Member UncommonPosts: 286
Everyone behind the creation of recent mmos should just think about the consequences of creating a half polished game.
They do nothing but raise the bar and our expectations will never be pleased by the dissapointment coming after hype.
For example gw2, they did a great job but pvp is meaningless and not fun so people will try to look for a game that will fulfill their needs of pvp and even if they find one they probably will have hard time adapting to the game as their expectations have been lifted by everything else gw2 did good. Every mmo company releases their games in a state where it doesnt fulfill what you could want from a ''complete'' mmo. This is the success of wow, they were there before the expectations were this high and most importantly they had a game which appeald to most of people just like a ''complete'' game would...
MMO genre doesnt need a wow killer, it needs a game that can focus on many things, no bullshit like camelot unchained that will only focus on rvr, guess what? people will be bored of rvr even if it is the best of genre and look for alternatives, then they'll go for a pve game which wont satisfy them pvpwise and the whole mmo indusrty will keep on making their money by raising hypes, getting the money on start and then going f2p with cash shop when people see that it isnt what they were hoping for.
Comments
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
I see this as a big problem that non mmo games wont suffer because they dont have this competition mmo's have which is not even needed. Also accepting this as a problem you'd see that this has been going for some long time and I dont see a hand doing anything because this is just like a crisis, mmos are sabotaging both themselves and the whole market
I dont know maybe these are some deep thinking for games but thinking as huge money flows around this market I think they should know about these stuff
Much of the passion with game lovers making games is gone these days, as big corporations can easily afford to brainwash the community into believing whatever they want them to, via huge advertising and viral campaigns. Take into consideration that many don't actively discuss gaming, but just pick up on a game ad video on the frontpage of YouTube, or a glowing (paid-for?) review.
Not to imply that the people working for game companies aren't gamers or enthusiasts, but the ones in charge who pull the strings leaves players wondering.
GW2 did a nice job creating a graphically pretty world with artwork and a smooth engine, but the world was unfortunately very shallow. Graphics vs Gameplay .. many people are more persuaded by awesome high-res graphics, when to me all I needed was a smooth engine and good gameplay .. if that makes sense.
For example, when Sonic the Hedgehog first came out on the Genesis, it's graphics detail wasn't superior, but it was unique with gameplay and an engine that could support much higher framerates. It's all give and take in games.
I guess I could be bold and throw out there that there seem to be 3 main game elements .. (1) graphics detail, pretty visuals (2) graphics engine, smooth & fast, and (3) gameplay, fun & deep .. Among the currently top MMORPG's (in my eyes):
GW2 has graphics detail and graphics engine
SWTOR has graphics detail and gameplay
WoW has graphics engine and gameplay
Perhaps the next step will be to have all 3, instead of just 2 at once.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Or there's just a whole generation of gamers who don't know that they're old and their opinions don't matter anymore. New games are aimed at newer gamers who don't expect so much because they haven't done and seen everything before.
Every year there is a new group of gamers joining the market that this is all new for.
edit: my post was badly worded. I'm talking about ppl who are burnt out on mmos not nessisarily old
I couldnt disagree more on that, The whole hype is created by people who are actually looking for something better than what they got and by people who see those ads, I am pretty sure someone who hasnt played any mmos and fairly new to the genre would be impressed from mostly anything so they wouldnt even know whats so good about the upcoming promising mmo that people are psyched on. They would just go for what's advertised mostly or what they hear from their friends so it wouldnt lure all of them to what is truly the best. Also I believe that the whole fanboys of an mmo are those who hadny played anything and they are less in numbers than they sound like
Wow, that was a bit demeaning. Regardless, while true for video games in general, the average age of MMO player is 26 with less than 25% or players under the age of 19. Sooo their key demo kinda trends older.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I agree that the whole passion is gone, it wasnt even a '' market'' when the mmo genre was actually successful
Then the big companies took over and kept on ruining game after game
+1
+1
+1 on post that utterly and completely missed the point?
Try again; from http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp
may be it's only me but seems GW2 is very "heavy" game for CPU, so no "graphic engine" for me.
after 1 more total disappointment I started to meditate about what is good game.
I found: good game is game keeping you busy for like 10 hours per day, game you are dreaming about when not playing, game with endless FUN.
I guess it individual too: as some of us find hard challenge best of fun, some love slow grind and long worked results, others like just PK, while others like good drops / show off.
but in general meaning any game keeping you hooked, giving you fun is great game.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Well, big companies didn't ruin the genre. SoE was in it with EQ, and then Blizzard entered the market in 2004. Everyone, including smaller companies with mmos under their belt (I'm looking at you Turbine), attempted to copy the WoW formula for mmos, and missed the point entirely.
People wanted to latch on to the cash cow of WoW, but failed to realize that if people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW. Hell, it took until last year with Tera, TSW and GW2 to break the WoW mold, and even then it could be argued that they didn't go far enough.
As far as I can see though, the largest issue with mmos is the community itself. People whined that every game was like WoW for years, and then they whined when games like GW2 weren't like WoW enough. The players in the genre don't give the industry a clear sense of what they want anymore, not that those in the industry would listen much anymore. The community though is mostly vile and filled with armchair developers who spout out random crap like it's fact.
At least with the 2012 relases we saw some change, hopefully we will see more change down the road. Ironically, I am willing to bet that Blizzard with Titan will yet again be the ones to change the market the way they did with WoW.
Well sorry if it wasn't an age thing. If his reference was "new to the genre" then my bad for not understanding. Just the way it was worded. Can't blame an old fart for being confused...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Age has nothing to do with my point. My point is once you're burnt out and think all mmos suck you no longer matter to the industry.
People who don't buy/use things are no longer consumers they're just complainers.
No harm done my first post was badly worded. ( I'm 40 btw :P ) I still love mmos and buy/play them. Hope to till the day I die. It takes effort to make sure you don't fall into the trap of all new things suck. They should go back to how they were.
np, I just found it funny to give +1 on post that misunderstood the point
The term "old" refers to generation. The bitter, in time frozen "vets" are just stuck in past crying for games that current MMO generation has no desire in.
MMOs are in constant evolution to fit their audience. The audience is changing over time and devs follow. There is no other way how to stay competitive on the market and keep your business running. It is very simple supply/demand market mechanics.
SOE did their magic with EQ through an experiment, and the vision (tm) of gamers, who sought to create a 3D MUD. Gamers were few and far between back in the 1990's, and MUD's largely revolved around a grind to make a character stronger.
Aye WoW came around and turned things upside down, but in a good way (initially). I see their major innovations as making a seemless environment in a world that someone with a low end computer could still enjoy.
Even if a game seems to break the mold, they still also regress in some way. Non-seamless world, for instance. Non player-interactive world. Good gameplay, but frustrating to deal with the software inefficiencies and/or bugs. Horrible player-game mechanics. Unresponsive. Awkward controls. The list could go on for awhile
Regardless of how many people whine, I feel the key to a winning formula is to create a game by gamers for gamers. Build the masterpiece and even the "whiners" will come to pay homage.
Moving on, I'm not convinced that Titan will be spectacular. Via speculation it will be a social-media type game (because that is good for a company retaining customers) .. if that is true then that is counter-productive to making a quality game, IMO. It's good for retaining fans, though.
Maybe I'll eat my words, maybe you'll eat yours, who knows (for now). Years of gaming says the inevitable: "Even an awesome company sometimes puts out real stinkers". All the same, I'd love to hear more about Titan.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
The new generation of gamers you speak of is why we will never see another good polished mmo. This new generation is lazy they want a max level toon in two days with no challenge. They have this sense of entitlement that they should get everything for free.That's what I'm saying That '' The audience is changing over time and devs follow.'' is the biggest lie that devs want you to believe, name me more than 3 games where the devs or the creators actually gave a single crap about what the audience needed
By the way I gave a +1 not because of the age stuff but because it is really wrong to think that mmo flows around new players, as you just said you believe that audience changes and devs give a crap, an audience has to be more than new to change so devs keep an eye on them to improve, they wont ask a new player about what they want in class balances or pvp, the fact is they dont ask anyone.
I dont like generalising stuff but most of them dont and I think thats what they should do when creating a game.
If you listen to all people have to say than you'll have a very confusing game or a clone. They should listen after they have created something nice based on what other mmos lack and what they can improve on what they dont lack
I think once you think that all mmos in the market suck you probably have a higher potential for buying something thats better than whats in the market. If you no longer matter to the industry because you know you have the right to complain and question something before wasting some time then they would lose %80 of all mmo's players, people question everything but that doesnt make them stop from looking for something better it actually encourages them to find something better
That is not what you are saying, that is what you are denying.
It is easy to post random baseless crap on internet forumz with no research or reasoning to back your claims up but not so easy when you are putting in risk dozen or hundreds mills USD.
Those people do make their research research, you don't so do not be surprised your data do not correlate...
While I agree sony did good with it I still believe that companies like EA damaged the genre more than clones of wow. there were typical grind asian mmos and wow clones but those games didnt even create any diversion for the playerbase as only the new players who couldnt afford something better would go for them, I dont think anyone got hyped over a wow clone and got sad because it turned out to be a wow clone? They already wanted a wow clone so they went for it. The diversion of playerbase was when big titles created it, considering that you dont see them as wow clones
That is pretty much what I was saying if you actually read what I wrote at the first place, this is not a match for being right, if it is I'll let you be...
If you really believe that they actually do their jobs so good why do you think they are still trying to come up with a ''wow killer''?
I dont have to do researchs for this, basic reasoning will get you a long way.
Read what I posted there, I said that they actually earn more money by creating half polished games and creating hype over them because every single title looks promising as the last one turned out to be bullshit. They arent risking their money they are creating a fucked up market which gets them fast money but kills the market in long the long run
This is one of the side effects of the gaming industry becoming like Hollywood. You get a small handful of huge publishers who won't fund anything that's not a sequal or cheap cash grab. Indie projects come out, but still have a hard time gaining much attention because, despite how much people hate the bloated Hollywood movies, they love the high production values.
Games used to be made by gamers. Now they are mostly just made by one of 3 types of people, not including indie:
1. People with backgrounds in marketing, rather than development. They can sing and dance well enough to get people excited, and get funding, but that's it. Games pretty much can't live up to the expectations these guys set.
2. People who may very well be gamers at heart, but are more likely to just roll over and let the bean counters dictate where the game will go. These guys basically have no self-respect, and are just in it for the paycheck.
3. Old school developers who can basically manhandle a team into doing what they want on reputation alone. They're like the George Lucas's of the gaming world, who release one good hit and go on thinking every idea they have is gold, and that anything bad that happens is someone elses fault. The entire Mythic team is probably the best example of this, although most MMO's seem to have one of these guys in charge. Part of the problem is that the big publishers that are now controlling everything really seem to love these guys, which makes them nearly impervious to losing their jobs.
At some point, indie games will finally catch up to the AAA stuff enough that they'll become viable for more than just quirky niche games. Once that happens, I think the health of the industry will improve substantially. We're just about 5 years away from that.
You make me like charity