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The MMO and player housing/content
boommer99
Member UncommonPosts: 309
Why is it that so many MMOs (WoW, GW, DDO) now are moving away from the player own buildings and content (ie. SWG, SB, DAoC). I thought after the job that SB did with their "Massively Merciless" system. You could build your own town... then piss someone off and have them try and raze that town. Placement to hunting grounds was essential to creating a stable city and econmy. Not to mention growth.
World of Warcraft is a great game... but it lacks something (other than non-instanced PvP. Which a system like SB would help a lot). There is nothing that we as players can call our own. With so many empty buildings in IF and SW why is it that we cannot buy one and have that be our house/guildhall. Set a stake outside it and put our names on it. Why can't we go out and stake a claim in the open lands of the Burning Steeps, Westfall or Mulgore?
Dungeons and Dragons Online is even worse. Don't get me wrong I am loving the game... but there is some much there that could be filled in by players. And they are so concerned with being close to PnP, owning property is a HUGE part of PnP. Usually by lvl 12-13 you have amassed enought treasure that you need someplace to put it. Not to mention many classes (Paladin particularly) gain followers (with the Leadership feat) at lvl 8. By 12 you have an entourage that needs someplace to rest while you are on an adventure.
I guess... there are a lot of games out there that seem to ignore this as an important part of an mmo. FFXI broke down and gave us a room. We can't show it to anyone... but it was something. I would just like someplace I could call my own.
What do you all think?
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Bartle Test Breakdown: Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 26.67%, Socializer 66.67%
Comments
IMO player housing is the least important part of a game. I would prefer to have lots of content over player housing. Others may dissagree though.
Too bad that the game is so buggy though. To fix the major bugs it seems they would have to remake the whole game.
Well yes, but, i've spoken to enought people to know what it did to SWG.
Player cities disapaite the communtity and take the emphasis away from concentrations of population at major points where people can interact more easily and make the game feel more 'alive' (surely the defining thing about an MMO).
Player houses are great and would be greater still if kept in existing cities as long as the cities had, uh, good 'town planning' with zones and 'lots' to stop sprawl and inappropriate development. (Although i know in SWG the mayor could 'zone' areas for housing).
I like the idea of player housing, but I really haven't seen an actual implementation of it that has worked well. SWG was just a massive ghosttown after a few months; the buildings were like long-standing monuments to high player churn. Another problem with unchecked building (players decide where buildings go) is sprawl. Great areas become covered in buildings simply because they happen to be near a convenience. The housing system I liked best was the one in Asheron's Call 1, where there were a variety of housing models and sizes; the key to that was the fact that the houses were pre-built, pre-placed and limited in number. Property had varying value based on whether it had a view, whether it was close to a major hub, whether it was part of a neighborhood or stood alone, etc. Unfortunately, housing in AC also did a lot to pull players away from cities, which greatly diminished the visual presence of the population.
Another trend is the use of instanced housing, ala apartments in Anarchy Online and Saga of Ryzom. There's just something supremely unsatisfying about walking into a generic doorway that leads to a generic room where you keep your generic belongings, though. The type of player who's likely the most interested in housing will find bland instances to be counter to their desire for a 'piece of the world.'
Really, I don't know what the solution is, and I don't think the industry's developers do either. While seizable/destructible housing might work in a full pvp environment, it wouldn't work at all in a pve environment, and would very likely be equally unpopular in mixed environments because their playerbases are generally more heavily skewed towards pve. I suppose having residential neighborhoods in NPC cities would be one way of handling it, but you still run the risk of players hanging out in their homes instead of in town squares, markets, cantinas, etc. A population with low visibility can actually make it seem as if the game is dying, whether or not that's actually the case.
As I said in the beginning, however, I do like the idea of player housing. I like setting up my house with furniture, art, trophies, whatever. Having a home in a world makes me feel a bit more connected to it. Still, there are other things (like players) that have more of an impact on me when it comes to game connections. Hopefully someone will figure out a way to implement the good and avoid the bad, if such a thing is possible. I'd love to see it.
player housing is a nice addition, but not high on the list of things i like in a mmorpg.
why they don't let you build a house in wow, like in the BS? room!! wow is small compared to a lot of other games. there's not enough room to place houses. it would have to be instanced.
Personally, i REALLY liked the addition to player housing in SWG and even in DaoC. I had left DaoC and came back when it was introduced. NOW i do completely see the point that was brought up about player housing taking players away from the NPC areas and making the game feal like a ghosttown. That did happen in SWG to a point. But, man, how nice was it to have a home on a planet like tatooine to completely immerse you into the game and make it really feel like home.
When playing DoaC, i liked the house i got, but felt it was lacking since it was in an instanced zone - so that experience was a little sub par for me BUT having it there sure did keep the player base active in cities. On the other hand, i CIMPLETELY loved the openess of plopping down a house wherever you wanted in SWG (if it was a buildable planet that is). There was just some neat feeling about traveling in the wilds and happen upon a few houses..walk in and find an UBER crafter and his merchants inside. Traveling to merchant houses and having waypoints to your favorites was just a fulfilling experience BUT this openess too all the players out of the cities and it DID feel like a ghosttown. I only played AO for a little while after beta was over (a game just needs GOOD graphics to keep me interested) and couldnt base an opinion on that...
ALL in all i guess im saying that player housing DOES intrigue me and really makes an AT HOME feel to a game...but i do on the other hand see what you guys mean when it takes players away from populated areas. OK after reading this thread im a little torn. I loved player housing...but i COMPLETELY hated to see games i liked turn to ghosttowns..and player housing added to that feel.
This is interesting. Most of the replies are negative but the poll shows a general support (albeit 12 voters).
I think my whole thing is the having a house or the like is something that really gets me into the game. I didn't say this before because I don't like to bash games but... I hated the player housing system in SWG. It sucked. I did like the way AC1 worked as well. Even more than that I loved how SB worked. They REALLY had it down. Start from a central location and grow. I liked that a lot.
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Bartle Test Breakdown: Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 26.67%, Socializer 66.67%
I like the idea of player housing. What a developer should do is have both instanced, cheap buildings in NPC cities for players who just need storage, while you can have non-instanced building in the NPC cities as well as having placeable houses out in the country side for those that want a little more freedom and uniqueness to their housing.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
still no game has housing like UO and very very customizable i love having a home to store, decorate, and be able to have as a launching place for raiding/guild stuff.
and no doac wasnt empty before housing was implimented all the plots where taken in the first 2 days. so please dont make a responce to a game you obviously didnt play.
instanced housing does suck though. wish a 3d game would make housing like UO though that would be a big draw for me.
I don't think house is an important primary feature but it is a key secondary feature. I brings a feeling of conection to the game world.
What I DO NOT like is the sprawl that developes in games like SWG and UO where the entire landscape is cluttered with used old houses and buildings. When I played SWG there really was no untouched wilderness, there was a house everywhere. There was no feeling of exploration or discovery.
DAoC had a good idea (the houseing zones are NOT instanced) but seperate zones from the gameworld next to the capital cities.
What I would like to see is something a bit more substantial in MMORPG's. Housing is nice but it has little impact. A guild built Stronghold, Tower, Castle or Fortress would be awesome. (IMHO) They would need to be difficult to build and maintain but it would be nice. I think Shadowbane is the only game that really attempts this. If I play a Warrior why would I be interested in "cottages", "villas" or "mansions"? I want something profession related like a stronghold or a Wizards Tower!!! Cottages are for summer vacations
The instanced housing like in FFXI or EQ2 just doesn't do anything for me. AC was nice but it was all preset. You didn't have a choice of what type of house you wanted just whatever was availible. Yes you could get one but it didn't have a "personal" feel to it, especially if you didn't like the designa all that much.
Well with GW it's kinda impossible to have non-instanced housing considering the whole game is instanced, so unless you want an instanced player house, then not really doable.
Anyway, I like the whole player housing idea. It's a nice addition to a game, you have your own little land you call home, hopefully you can invite other people, play some games in there, chat, brag, etc... It's a nice feature. As well as player owned cities, I feel that is a great feature to have in MMOs, I love the idea of working with the community to build your own town/city, then protecting it from invaders trying to bring it down.
I couldnt agree more with the issue of spawl - as i said my main real direct experience is with SWG and i hear the point about the landscape littered with unused housing - it looked stupid.
Cities are important there must be some way of 'planning' cities - laying out streets and zoning for houses or even better building three story high town houses where each floor is am apartment - that would be an easy way to make cities look and feel more realistic and fit in totally with the theme that most mmorpg's are which is fantasy based. Wouldnt it be great to have bustling medieval looking cities with high rows of houses, inns shops etc?
What I dont understand is that UO was one of the first MMORPG ever made and yet soo many MMORPG's are moving away from what UO had. UO has or had the BEST housing Ive ever seen. It really makes a HUGE diff when you have something to work for like that.
I think housing in UO really make it a huge part of what it is. Really did a good thing for it. UO would really be the best MMORPG if they could come out with a new and improved graphics for it.
-MrDDT
One of the major problems in a modern 3d game would be the lag created by trying to create the equivalent of UO housing. Infinitely customisable housing able to hold thousands of objects would be a nightmare on the server for most modern 3d games I'd imagine.
Its a step backwards in my opinion if a mmorpg doesnt have housing. In fact, I dont really consider a game a true mmorpg if it lacks housing.
However it MUST be in-game housing and not that lame instanced garbage like in EQ2.
Housing is a chance to show off another must have in-game item...decorative loot. Loot that otherwise has no purpose other than it is rare.
There were players in SWG (like me) that made museums with decorative loot, rare items no longer in-game or extremely rare. Other players could wander by and stop in to see how successful I had been in the game.
It ended up being something fun to do for the vets who had long ago reached the end game.
I wont play a mmorpg without SWG housing in it. And if that means no mmorpgs then so be it. Hopefully D&L will do housing right.
Well if you look at the top 2 mmorpg in NA/europe which are WoW and EQ1 both have no housing.
So it means this is not such an important priority for gamers.However,it does add an added bonus to the game .
I could not imagine games like SWG or UO without houses
Actually I think that has nothing to do with gamers. That has to do with developers not wanting to develop that content. The beta boards for WoW always had a ton of posts asking for it. Bliz has been able to squelch those coments lately but there is still a large population waiting for enhanced guild functions and housing.
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Bartle Test Breakdown: Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 26.67%, Socializer 66.67%