Edit: I also recommend Mr. Jacobs bring a few of us DAoC veterans in for his old school advisory panel. Preferrably a few like myself who weren't ToA haters.
I'd absolutely play if you added in a co-op server like Gaheris once again. ^^ I know and appreciate the PvP community, and they absolutely deserve to have their fun -- DAoC was great for that, and I played for many years, I've just gotten older and don't want to deal with that scene anymore.
My funnest times in the game were just throwing together a ramshackle group of whoever I could find, and going off to adventure in zones very few people ever even went to. It wasn't about finding gear, or server firsts, it was just about showing people something new in the game they would never have gone off to find on their own -- and getting them killed horribly running as fast as we could away from the more toothy "adventures".
Focus on the PvP'ers, but please don't forget to throw us carebears a bone, too, please -- we don't need much, just some places to explore and adventure. Thank you!
Give renown/realmpoints or whatever it's going to be called for killing players instead for taking empty objectives and keeps.
Warhammer had a lot of potential but when two HUGE armies were running around avoiding eachother because they got better gear and points for taking empty keeps and objectives then I quit the game. It's better to give players more points when killing other players at a keep and give points for taking the keep depending on how many defenders there were in the area. And give nothing if there were no defenders.
People should fight eachother and not just trying to grind points and tokens etc by doing the easiest way possible.
The kill metric is not very RVR. Keeps/Towers taking is more RVR. IF they are empty, give less points.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Please do a similar system for archers as Doac had pre-nerfing. When Daoc changed to the new "casting" style of archery it destroyed one the funnest aspects of the games. Staring down the drawn bow and waiting for your enemies (mids and alb in my case) was awesome. Also i hope you keep a similar system of guild markings on shields and cloaks it was always fun looking for the guy who killed you last or repeatedly. I look forward to finally playing something worthwhile after so long wandering.
Great thread. All I'll say for now (and I've said this before), I LOVED the concept and execution of DF and that I'm staying away from hyping (or even talking about) aspects of the game too early in the development process. So, please don't equate silence on some/any issues with non-implementation.
After all, Sir Thomas More is supposed to have said during his trial "Qui tacet consentire videtur, he that holds his peace; seems to give his Consent."
OTOH, he was beheaded so...
That's correct Mark.
Silence is considered as acceptance, it's one of only 4 ways to respond, and in most cases it is considered a "Dishonorable" response, as your not giving due the existence of something made known.(Notices)
"He who does not deny, admits." Maxim in Law, comes to mind.
In all fairness however, one could argue that he was headed(no pun intended) in that direction no matter what he did. His fate was already sealed, as reversing himself would have alienated him form the few meaningful supporters he had.
Perhaps if he did defend himself, "Viva Voce" things could have been different. Conditionally accepting everything, and using confession and avoidance until his opponents made a mistake or just gave up.
Or, they could have just did what our leaders do in this day and age, Use law as a shield until it hinders them, and then making new rules and laws to protect the investiture.
Any game mechanic that rewards realms for organising themselves without resorting to the old zerg:
- several capture points for equivalent of relics and DF
- gathering resources but then having to defend them, i.e. using a slow moving transport from the location of gathering to the production place (forge, workshop)
- restriction of movement across the maps (no portalling from one end of the world to the other) therefore forcing realms to deploy their forces tactically.
- a strategic element, for example being able to capture areas of the map which cannot be recaptured straight away and which confer bonuses if they are connected with the other areas (therefore simulating something like supply lines)
Originally posted by foichne Please do a similar system for archers as Doac had pre-nerfing. When Daoc changed to the new "casting" style of archery it destroyed one the funnest aspects of the games. Staring down the drawn bow and waiting for your enemies (mids and alb in my case) was awesome. Also i hope you keep a similar system of guild markings on shields and cloaks it was always fun looking for the guy who killed you last or repeatedly. I look forward to finally playing something worthwhile after so long wandering.
Oh yeah the "casting style" for bow users was awful ! But since it was made to balance classes, i dont think it will be implemented in CU since Mark said somewhere that they wont work as hard to balance them ( or something close ).
One of the reason might be that there will be much less PvE, so easier to work it out.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
Please have the same dye and emblem system you had in DAoC. This added so much customization to the game and guilds could actually look (and feel) like guilds do to the fact guild members could dye their armor the same color (and emblem various pieces of equipment).
**I also loved the idea someone listed of using the old server names. :-)
This made me chuckle. I had the same conversation with our lead concept artist. It pretty much boiled down to "Look at WoW and don't do it that way for CU."
This generally seems to be a fairly good point. Maybe something to consider for FP #10?
My one request would be: Try to be "realistic" (ie: no comic graphics, realistic movement with acceleration and decelleration, reasonable sized swords etc.
I would pick a Longsword with an authentic, good looking skin anytime over the "Roflstomper 3000"
Originally posted by Kryptonite_Hilo ToA's content was great if you weren't a whiney little bitch. The classes it introduced were terrible, but the content was solid.
See, this I can agree with as far as content goes. Unfortunately it was great for a PVE game. How it originaly effected RvR, was ridiculous. It had nothing to do with being a whiney bitch, it had everything to do with making you be a pve raider in a RvR game.
Originally posted by Kryptonite_Hilo ToA's content was great if you weren't a whiney little bitch. The classes it introduced were terrible, but the content was solid.
See, this I can agree with as far as content goes. Unfortunately it was great for a PVE game. How it originaly effected RvR, was ridiculous. It had nothing to do with being a whiney bitch, it had everything to do with making you be a pve raider in a RvR game.
I agree with both of these statements. I wasn't crazy about having to PVE in order to equip myself for PVP, but on the other hand I never understood the level of screaming and crying about it, either. I looked forward to every expansion and the new content and classes that they brought.
Just to clarify, I wouldn't recommend the ToA approach be taken again. Heh.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Please have the same dye and emblem system you had in DAoC. This added so much customization to the game and guilds could actually look (and feel) like guilds do to the fact guild members could dye their armor the same color (and emblem various pieces of equipment).
**I also loved the idea someone listed of using the old server names. :-)
C'mon now, anyone who remembers RVR back in the day knows you always dyed your armor black in order to not be nearly as visible. (darkness actually mattered in that game back then, doesn't seem to do so today)
I remember people yelling at each other for leaving their torches lit while traveling the frontiers looking for a fight.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We have seen some ridiculous suggestions in this very forum in the last few days (limited jumping, complicated mount systems, small group size, no permastealth, exp loss on death etc.)
What I want is to keep it as close to daoc as possible: normal jumping, no mounts at launch (hopefully never), 8man groups, full permastealth, no exp loss from PvP deaths.
We have seen some ridiculous suggestions in this very forum in the last few days (limited jumping, complicated mount systems, small group size, no permastealth, exp loss on death etc.)
What I want is to keep it as close to daoc as possible: normal jumping, no mounts at launch (hopefully never), 8man groups, full permastealth, no exp loss from PvP deaths.
+1
Totally agree, a lot of ourlandish requests, in fact these requests sound just like the complaints made back in DAOC and it's why they added mounts etc. and other things and ruined the game.
no jumping? like why gg, stop being a baby and let people play the way they want.
Mounts? come on can't hand hold everyones hand, if you want to run fast play a class with speed or make friends ( forced socialization???????? - read the founding principles )
exp loss from PVP deaths ( Game will die if all the bads quit because they never advance their character, every game needs fodder )
no stealth? too many people over looking the complexity it adds to the game by having a stealth class, always being aware / on your toes, and usefullness of scouting / reporting to your realm was always a huge part of the success of DAOC. ( Remember no hand holding, so why should we hold everyones hand through mile gates, you go alone you deserve to risk getting pooped on in surprise by a stealther ) I don't think much beat the rush when you were suprised out of no where when a stealther jumped you. If you play a squishy you have to deal with consequences to usually getting killed by an equally skilled stealther ( rock paper scissors ) read the founding priciples.
Stop referring to DAoC on everything. You are ruining that DAoC name and if we wanted to play DAoC it is F2P. Show us you made your own game already. DAoC clone how terrible will that be with no PvE?
But than again the game is only a thought. Shouldn't even be listed in development yet!
Hey guys. Let's all have a big hug. There is going to be rampant bickering and flame wars once beta starts and beyond, and we don't need the core community starting that up before development even starts.
Let's be helpful and constructive.
My tiny request: the ability to mark/flag one enemy as your nemesis. They would be alerted that you marked them. If you kill them, the death spam could be a different, more awesome message than the base one.
Should prob wait a while before talking classes or at least a diff thread, until you know how many there will be per realm and the combat system etc. It will be hard to speculate.
I would just love to see mixtures of "essential" abilities across different types of classes on different realms like it was done in DAOC.
So much from DAoC that I'd love to see, but the tiny things might include...
-Death/Kill spam - really added to Realm Pride and great rivalries amongst competitors
-Terrain unique to each realm - Odin's Gate was my second home, even though I was a Lurikeen. I loved the snowy hills and evergreens... great places to hide. Sauvage had that misty background that made it a little creepy. Crauchon was... actually... it was a little boring, but places like Bri Leith and Lough Gur in Hibland were very distinct.
-Dance emotes - oh, to perform the Keen Circle of Death again...
-Lots of other larger concerns - for other threads.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
Comments
Speaking of things not to include...
I'd absolutely play if you added in a co-op server like Gaheris once again. ^^ I know and appreciate the PvP community, and they absolutely deserve to have their fun -- DAoC was great for that, and I played for many years, I've just gotten older and don't want to deal with that scene anymore.
My funnest times in the game were just throwing together a ramshackle group of whoever I could find, and going off to adventure in zones very few people ever even went to. It wasn't about finding gear, or server firsts, it was just about showing people something new in the game they would never have gone off to find on their own -- and getting them killed horribly running as fast as we could away from the more toothy "adventures".
Focus on the PvP'ers, but please don't forget to throw us carebears a bone, too, please -- we don't need much, just some places to explore and adventure. Thank you!
The kill metric is not very RVR. Keeps/Towers taking is more RVR. IF they are empty, give less points.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That's correct Mark.
Silence is considered as acceptance, it's one of only 4 ways to respond, and in most cases it is considered a "Dishonorable" response,
as your not giving due the existence of something made known.(Notices)
"He who does not deny, admits." Maxim in Law, comes to mind.
In all fairness however, one could argue that he was headed(no pun intended) in that direction no matter
what he did. His fate was already sealed, as reversing himself would have alienated him form the few meaningful supporters he had.
Perhaps if he did defend himself, "Viva Voce" things could have been different. Conditionally accepting everything, and using confession and avoidance until his opponents made a mistake or just gave up.
Or, they could have just did what our leaders do in this day and age, Use law as a shield until it hinders them, and then making new rules and laws to protect the investiture.
Alas, we shall never know.:)
Any game mechanic that rewards realms for organising themselves without resorting to the old zerg:
- several capture points for equivalent of relics and DF
- gathering resources but then having to defend them, i.e. using a slow moving transport from the location of gathering to the production place (forge, workshop)
- restriction of movement across the maps (no portalling from one end of the world to the other) therefore forcing realms to deploy their forces tactically.
- a strategic element, for example being able to capture areas of the map which cannot be recaptured straight away and which confer bonuses if they are connected with the other areas (therefore simulating something like supply lines)
Oh yeah the "casting style" for bow users was awful ! But since it was made to balance classes, i dont think it will be implemented in CU since Mark said somewhere that they wont work as hard to balance them ( or something close ).
One of the reason might be that there will be much less PvE, so easier to work it out.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Please have the same dye and emblem system you had in DAoC. This added so much customization to the game and guilds could actually look (and feel) like guilds do to the fact guild members could dye their armor the same color (and emblem various pieces of equipment).
**I also loved the idea someone listed of using the old server names. :-)
This generally seems to be a fairly good point. Maybe something to consider for FP #10?
My one request would be: Try to be "realistic" (ie: no comic graphics, realistic movement with acceleration and decelleration, reasonable sized swords etc.
I would pick a Longsword with an authentic, good looking skin anytime over the "Roflstomper 3000"
See, this I can agree with as far as content goes. Unfortunately it was great for a PVE game. How it originaly effected RvR, was ridiculous. It had nothing to do with being a whiney bitch, it had everything to do with making you be a pve raider in a RvR game.
I agree with both of these statements. I wasn't crazy about having to PVE in order to equip myself for PVP, but on the other hand I never understood the level of screaming and crying about it, either. I looked forward to every expansion and the new content and classes that they brought.
Just to clarify, I wouldn't recommend the ToA approach be taken again. Heh.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
C'mon now, anyone who remembers RVR back in the day knows you always dyed your armor black in order to not be nearly as visible. (darkness actually mattered in that game back then, doesn't seem to do so today)
I remember people yelling at each other for leaving their torches lit while traveling the frontiers looking for a fight.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh wow, I forgot about that. I never believed that the enemy could actually see our torches since I could never see theirs.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
We have seen some ridiculous suggestions in this very forum in the last few days (limited jumping, complicated mount systems, small group size, no permastealth, exp loss on death etc.)
What I want is to keep it as close to daoc as possible: normal jumping, no mounts at launch (hopefully never), 8man groups, full permastealth, no exp loss from PvP deaths.
+1
Totally agree, a lot of ourlandish requests, in fact these requests sound just like the complaints made back in DAOC and it's why they added mounts etc. and other things and ruined the game.
no jumping? like why gg, stop being a baby and let people play the way they want.
Mounts? come on can't hand hold everyones hand, if you want to run fast play a class with speed or make friends ( forced socialization???????? - read the founding principles )
exp loss from PVP deaths ( Game will die if all the bads quit because they never advance their character, every game needs fodder )
no stealth? too many people over looking the complexity it adds to the game by having a stealth class, always being aware / on your toes, and usefullness of scouting / reporting to your realm was always a huge part of the success of DAOC. ( Remember no hand holding, so why should we hold everyones hand through mile gates, you go alone you deserve to risk getting pooped on in surprise by a stealther ) I don't think much beat the rush when you were suprised out of no where when a stealther jumped you. If you play a squishy you have to deal with consequences to usually getting killed by an equally skilled stealther ( rock paper scissors ) read the founding priciples.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
What?
Let's be helpful and constructive.
My tiny request: the ability to mark/flag one enemy as your nemesis. They would be alerted that you marked them. If you kill them, the death spam could be a different, more awesome message than the base one.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Don't think you're likely to have Bone dancers :P
They have mentioned less classes, and we don't know how many yet 5? 7?
Healer, speed, melee dps, caster dps, stealth?
maybe have 2 melee and 2 caster types?
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Tanks? Crowd Controllers? Ice cream vendors?
I really hope they have "tanks" like daoc in pvp, and not like WAR but who knows.
If they have :
Tank ( shield / 2hand )
Healer
Caster
then they can add hybrid classes or 2 melee, 2 casters etc.
Speed/CC/other utility will hopefully be mixed throughout classes like it was in Daoc
ie. Alb CC was also a caster
mid Healer was also CC
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Should prob wait a while before talking classes or at least a diff thread, until you know how many there will be per realm and the combat system etc. It will be hard to speculate.
I would just love to see mixtures of "essential" abilities across different types of classes on different realms like it was done in DAOC.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
- Melee system with positional/reactional styles is hands down best I ever played.
- Server names are probably not necessary. I expect forums to send old players to the "appropriate" server.
- Guild emblems were great, but leave out the second batch.
So much from DAoC that I'd love to see, but the tiny things might include...
-Death/Kill spam - really added to Realm Pride and great rivalries amongst competitors
-Terrain unique to each realm - Odin's Gate was my second home, even though I was a Lurikeen. I loved the snowy hills and evergreens... great places to hide. Sauvage had that misty background that made it a little creepy. Crauchon was... actually... it was a little boring, but places like Bri Leith and Lough Gur in Hibland were very distinct.
-Dance emotes - oh, to perform the Keen Circle of Death again...
-Lots of other larger concerns - for other threads.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Shadow Run MMO got nearly $2million on KS. I think CU will do ok.
My small request is to make sure that there isn't anything that resembles a Speedwarp in CU.