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Is World of Warcraft a "true" MMORPG?
pingo
Member UncommonPosts: 608
Looking at the front page poll on this website I was stunned at the amount of people who play MMORPGs for "the social aspect".
It really made me think, because is that not truly the only thing that makes these games uniqe? You got itemization, leveling, huge worlds and RPG elements in offline and free Online RPGs.
It made me think back of the beginning in Starwars Galaxies and the things I did in that game.
I remember the first time I built a house. And I used days on decorating it. I remember the weeks me and my guild used on making our player city. All our full time crafters set up their shops in our town, and people would flock from all over the Galaxy(ehh... server) to buy our equipment. Food, Weapons, armor, cloth, vehicles, pets, spaceships, houses, droids, pretty much anything.
Me and my guild actually changed the hole economy in the game on our server. We could screw it up really bad if we wanted too. If we had competition from som low punk firm who tried to get a peace of the action, we lowered our prices with great offers. We had people advertise for us, 24/7.
It was great because while the crafters were crafting away, the PvPers trying to take over bases and win glory for the Rebellion, combat people actually helped gathering all the uniqe resources and parts needed.
It was an interesting dynamic, because while SWG didn't have any "real" content except for a few dungeons, people found gameplay and end game in simply trying to out do each other. The virtual unpredictable economy kept it alive. If you wanted a great rifle, you couldnt go somewere and loot it or quest for it - You had to seek the best crafters in the game, and give them a lot of credits.
This was one of the many mechanics that forced interaction. For a long time, everything in SWG was pretty much solo-able and using all the skill points didnt took long at all. Very fast actually. You could get all your points easily maxed out in a week, drop your skill points and take a new class. Death had no impact. It just created this concept were people choose between 30+ classes and mish mashed them all together.
SWG even had classes which only point was to amuse other people. It's true. They actually had an "Entertainer" class were people could be musicians and Dancers. The concept was to be /tipped by other players for great entertainment. Entertainers would then be able to give small benefits like battle fatigue healing and some small buffs. But they were pretty much useless.
It was interesting - Because you had people who did nothing but craft. You had peoples who only job was to entertain others. There were so many gameplay systems. Combat always sucked in Galaxies. It sucked bad. I mean really bad. It never worked... 80% of all attacks were always broken, and everything was imbalanced, thrown together. Still it was crazy. It allowed people to build their own cities, economies, characters with insane amount of detail. You actually had sliders for how big you wanted your cheeks to be, or how small your nose with should be. You had these cool and uniqe races like Wookies, Rodians, Mon Cal and Bothan. These werent elfs or Orcs. And they had so many features. So you really didnt looked like anyone else when you entered the game.
WoW is almost the oppesite of the phantagram. Everything have been made for the player. Like a straight line. You go there in this zone, you lvl here in this zone. You need to do these and these quests like everyone else here and there. Like in a single player console game. Very linear.
It's funny, because while it might be more steamlined and better presented, it actually offers less flexibility than just playing a MMORPG were you have to go out in the wild and simply just kill all the creatures, because people could explore were to lvl and how and in groups or not.
I have played WoW since release(in europe), about a half a year. And im still surprised every day about the lack of interaction between people. Even in guilds "considered" good. You can use your guild mates for fighting but not much else.
I don't think I would last a day in WoW doing strictly non combat activities - Simply because there is none. Crafting is very time consuming, trivel and does not allow any customization at all.
It simply also has all the great loot coming from the AH, drops and quests.
SWG back then made me belive that MMORPGs was about building a world, building a community and get a sense of immersive feeling of "I am in another place" but WoW makes me more think like it's about being a racist 1337 d00d prick, pwn the kiddie alliance player/h0rde n00b loserz and quests for teh uber loot so the generic and linear character advancement system, with loot combined, can help pwn the people in front Ogrim or IF.
Don't get me wrong - World of Warcraft is a much better game than WoW. It actually appeals to my different kinds of people, its actually easy to get into, it actually has nice production values, it actually has a great interface, it actually has great controls, it actually has an extensiv lore, it actually does have nicely produced quests and easy character advancement, and its actually pretty balanced.
SWG was and is a big mess on so many levels. That's not my point though.
It's just more of -
When it really comes down to it - Is World of Warcraft really a MMORPG? Its massive, yes! It's multiplayer, yes! It's a RPG, yes! But does it have much of the essence of what games like SWG, EVE and UO tried to accomplish?
It just seemed to me that WoW is exactly like Diablo. You walk around in this world and you kill, and you get loot. Thats all there is to it. You do some quests here and there. But thats really it. On battle.net/wows servers you dont socialise, you dont really have any role playing elements or player housing or any non combat things to do.
But not thats there is anything wrong with that. The succes of WoW clearly speaks for itself. So do you think WoW is "dumping down" MMORPGs to this?
After all I have meet a ton of people who would totally "ROFLAMO!111111111" at this post. Usually the people you will find in general barrens chat, swearing and bragging about beating up his own mother, because he thinks it makes him look cool.
But all reviews.(check www.gamerankings.com ) state and feel that WoW made the MMORPG genre move forward and is the first breakthrough hit. Is that the case, or did MMORPGs just turned into regular games.
Personally I guess I always expected being entertained on a hole different level in these MMORPGs. Maybe because they had a subscription fee.
I guess I just always felt, that if I really only wanted to lvl and kill and get equipment to show it off to people, I would play Guild Wars, Diablo, Elder Scrolls, KOTOR or final fantasy or something.
Ive played on tons of wow servers, but it seems that the social aspect and non combat activities does not extent further than dancing naked in front of the auction house, or running around on your mount in circles until you finally get into a BG or find a PUG to an instance.
Im wondering about... In 2 or 3 years, how many "kill this quests" or "collect 20 of these" quests will I have made and will I actually think they are fun. Since they are always adding equipment I almost feel like not even trying to get the best items in the game... Because I know in 3 months they will not be the best and something better will have come out, which would have made my 3 months of raiding worthless. And in all this time I would not really have gained any friends or achived anything other than screaming in ventrillo or looking impressive with my gear.
Maybe im just an fart though.
EDIT: Please don't flame. Just a question
Comments
Yes World of Warcraft is a true mmo. From a technical point of view it's 100% true mmo. Regarding the gameplay. It depends on how you want the mmo gameplay to be. I personally like a balance between developer made content and player made content.
World of warcraft is heavily leaning towards developer content just like many other mmo's. It's quite linear. There isn't much player made content in Wow. This is maybe why World of Warcraft feels so polished bugfree and balanced. That is why I play Eve. If I want polished pve and limited pvp I log onto Wow and have a blast there. If I feel more for player made content I log onto Eve. Eve is basicly only player content, the content that the developer have added isn't much more than lore text and npc's that give out some really mediorce quests. Pvp, alliances. economy, outposts and so on is all "ruled" by the players.
World of warcraft isn't all out of player made content though. There are alot of guilds that have events and so on. Player made content heavily depends on the players, players could do some great stuff in Wow too. But the majority of Wow's player base doesn't want it. I'm sure if you let 3000 hardcore players onto a Wow server, you would see some nice player made content. Wow isn't so much different from UO, EQ and SWG. The main difference is that Blizzard has a very strict control over the world and lore. They have too, since the warcraft world is a evolving trademark, wich will boast many other games besides Wow in the future, they can't give control to the players. You can't have a whole trademark's future in the hands of some players. If Blizzard would loosen this grip it might turn out like the great things you found in SWG. The problems with the "best gear" syndrom in Wow is the player base. Alot of them are ex diablo players and they want something like that, that is why Blizzard makes the game that way, most of their players want it that way. If all Wow player would like more player content I'm sure BLizzard would make that instead. The problem with player made content in games, is that if the game has "bad" players the game fails too.
Hope my opinion looks clear to you. Quite tired right now so it might be f**ked up. To sum it up. Yes World of Warcraft is a true mmo. But it features more "premade" content. There is only player made content in Wow, if the players make it themself. To few do that.
Jesus man. so much typing
yes it is a mmorpg. maybe THE mmorpg
How would wow not be considered a real mmo? It is.
World of Warcraft is a good game, but it definitely isn't the end-to-all-debates best game. You can't just look at subscriber numbers and say that it's the best game based off of those, just because it's much higher than any other game out there. If that was the case, Lineage and Lineage 2 are the best MMORPGs on the market, and pre-WoW, SOE games were the best games out in the NA market. Is that really the case? Hardly.
World of Warcraft is popular and has many subscribers because the game is accessible. Compared to other MMORPGs that focus on spending long periods of time in front of the computer, World of Warcraft features fast combat and fast leveling with minimal downtime. It also has a great, intuitive interface that's easy to learn and use. Thus, it appeals to a large crowd of gamers who were turned off by the long amount of hours that a typical MMORPG required.
I respect you took the time to back up your opinion with such a long.. essay. But sorry, I didn't read it.
WoW is a true MMORPG.
I understand what the OP is trying to get at, but games like WoW just offer a different style of MMO.
Most players believe you have to quest in order to level in WoW. Absolutely not, quests are there to facilitate leveling and immerse the player in the world of WoW. Just like SWG, you can easily go out and kill a bazillion creatures to level. In fact, after I hit 50 on my first character that's what I did.
Same thing with player made content. I've stated many times on this board that I prefer open-air PvP events to battlegrounds and that content at any level is a matter of choice.
As for cooperative play, there are many instances (no pun intended) that require it. You need 40 people to do Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, and Onyxia. Same thing if youve gone after any of the world elite dragons. Not to mention what it takes to pull of successful raids on cities like Orgimar.
I rarely saw more then 40 person groups in SWG. There were numerous times in guild chat when players would ask what everyone was doing, and the common reply was 'leveling'. Lol, mostly leveling was done AFK.
SWG offered more of an open environment, but I certainly don't think WoW's is the antithesis of it. IMO, it's a matter of perspective and experience of what you get out of WoW. Fortunately, mine seems to have been a little better. ^_^
Blizzard isnt dumbing down the market, just offering an alternative for us casual MMO gamers.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Bleh, shouldn't you ask this question in Guild Wars forum?
Ofcourse WoW is a "true" Massively Multiplayer Online game, there's over 2500+ players on the server I play on, that seems massive to me.
Well another side of the coin is that you can be social thru the need to assemble a large enough force (aka guild) to get this items from dungeons .And since it takes many hours to do so you are actually interacting and socializing.
SWG used a different sort of approach to the word social.But also remember in SWG there were also loads of loners(at least when i played) as you could a)solo almost anything
b)only required interaction when you needed something and even then there were vendors.So you only contact crafters if you want something real uber .
Yes WoW is a true mmor.It just uses the EQ1 formula of been "social".
"Everything is mine and your woman too"
While it is true that WoW is NOT a virtual World simulator like SWG, UO or EVE, that do not remove the fact that, in addition to the content created by the devs, you can do your own.
You might have some less tools to do so (no guild vs guild combat, no housing etc) but it is still possible.
There are guys getting their kicks by playing the auction house as it was a stock market, you can very well organize treasure hunts, tournaments, races, other activities.
Yesterday i just passed a few hours discussing with other people a possible threat from a rival guild.
I suppose the problem is that with so much "ready" content, people tend to not create so much of these events than when there is no or little content and so they are kinda compelled to do so.
Anyhow, the two game types are pretty different, but "player content", being player dependant, is very possible in WoW as much as SWG. It just takes will and organization to make it happen.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Kolgmar
I totally agree with U.
Me being an Ex-anarchy player i come with another perspective.
I'm a huge SW FAN. But i hated SWG ever since it appeared i guess i expect too much for a game simulating the unverse of SW and i never thought SWG really cut it for me.
First of all to answer the question: is it a MMORPG?.... IMO yes.
However i find it really funny when ppl used as argument the fact that a lot of ppl play it. The fact that is massive doesent make it MMORPG i u analyze the letters it requres 2 conditions MMO states that it must be massive and online and the RPG part.... well there are different criterias on this matter.
In this line of thought, IMHO an rpg is a game where you have a character and this caracter evolves along his accuaring of XP. Which is the point of the first post.
So yes it has RPG, what you are lacking is an extended social settings, but WoW is not about that.
But i still belive it can evolve and something a little into what you want.
Yes the story of the world is dev. set, but with the expantion which is looking very intresting..... yes the question is what would you do after you get 3 character to lvl 70?
Well I AGREE extremely with Kolgmar...... The ammount of player content is determined BY THE PLAYERS....... if the players start to create content i belive developers might just might addecuate al little bit the game to what the players create.
HOWEVER.... is in the will to create content and i have played it for 2 weeks now and yes there is little player content
On the other hand i dont know in wich server the person of the first post is playing but i have met and interacted with a lot of ppl in the game and had conversations and lvl with complete strangers and gotten saved by passer by's. So there is a LOT of social interaction.... at least in the realm i play.
RAIDS r the BOM
And nothing brings tears to my eyes like killing incomming paladins and alliance faggots trying to raid a horde city........ it's sublime.
My advice to you is READ the quests... the story created whit in the game, the burning blade and so on is very nicely put toghether.... The precreated content is very cool, and if you played WC3 you feel inmersed in the story from the login...
Best regards
Ifuriryafu - Hunter Troll (Eonar)
Is WoW a true MMO? Yes. WoW breaks boundaries in terms of massive multiplayer online gaming.
Is it an RPG? ...kinda. Almost. It COULD be, but doesn't quite make it there. I don't think it's so much the game that fails as it is the players. I get the impression that most don't even know what roleplaying is. They seem to define RPG as any program that is a game where you kill monsters (or each other) and have long pointy ears -- which isn't a role playing game. Just a game.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
No. World of warcraft is a themepark for children with ADD. Nuff said.
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I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
All the features that you listed would, indeed, make a game a more involved and life-like experience. The question is though, is it really needed? Why would you want to build a house and run a business in a game, or worse yet, start a family in a game? The very idea just seems really creepy to me for some reason. That's why I quit EVE without even completing the trial - people there were taking the game a little TOO seriously I think. I have a job, and I want to have a business and a normal human life here, in REAL world, not some stupid game.
IMO, any game is OK as long as it stays that way and doesn't try to cross the boundary between virtual and real. Farther than that, you really have to have a special set of mind in order to keep playing something like that. And WOW is just that, a good and fun GAME.
In reply to the OPs complaints,
I don't think it's linear, if it feels that way it is because of your own play choices not the way the game is designed. If you play the game going with kill X creature Y times for maximum loot/exp to achieve the highest level you can as fast as possible then I think it will feel very linear and not very fun. If you just play to have fun and explore the world it doesn't feel so linear. My night elf hunter never went to the Stockades, heck, I never took him anywhere in the Eastern Kingdoms outside of IF just because there was plenty to keep me occupied back on Kalimdor. It wasn't until BFD was getting kinda easy that I went elsewhere in the EK and started going to Gnomeregan then Scarlet Monastery. And I only went to SM for easy money/exp/loot/grouping, there was still plenty I could have gone back to do in Kalimdor. There is a lot of stuff to do, it just depends on what type/amount of reward you want.
And for the "Kill X Guy" or "Gather X of these" quests, those are typical of just about all MMORPGs. It's not that easy to program an AI for something more complex than that, though WoW does have plenty of quests that aren't as bad as that (compare it to EQ if you want to see annoyingly repetative quests).
Maybe you'll just have to wait and see if D&D Online will have something more like what you're looking for, though I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Now, is it as good as other MMORPG's?
That, my friend, is entirely subjective.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
The fact is because wow is more accecible than other MMRPGs that means you have more of the "OMG L33T L00t!!!" Type of people I think, you get alot of younger players and other sort of people that wouldn't have played other MMORPGs.
When it comes to mmos there is only one rule. If it has gnomes it's a 1337 mmo if it doesn't it better have something to match them crazy gnomes
.
I find this very offensive. I have ADHD (a form of ADD) and i do not play, or hold any affiliation whatsoever with WoW. In fact, i play EQ2, its rival title. I'm not here to say which is better, but i have a good reason to report you as that was quite biased.
Please dont say that again, as it DOES offend people and as we do have ADHD, doesnt mean we're hyperactive/childish. these are stereotypes. a typical teenager (me for instance) with ADHD usualu sufers loss of concentration but Superior Creativity traits. nuff said.
"Death is not the end; Death is a minor inconvenience."
Yes, WoW is a true MMORPG. I know it isnt like SWG but it has soem other cool things. Christmas me and a lot of friends had a huge snowball wars and in halloween casting wands on eachother ;p. I always seem to find people to talk to. WoW DOES have the most asshats tho. BUT that is because wow has 5 million people that play this game. More people=more asshats. Also i remeber just grinding to 60 and chatting with mah friends on teamspeak and also in high end instances MC,BWL,Onyxia,and ZG. those are 40, 20 man instances.
WoW is also a host to many kids the reason maybe is WoW is the best MMORPG for first timers. Its a great mmorpg for hardcore, and newbs alike.WoW is also a "warcraft" game i know many kids under 13 that have played the previous RTS ones, WoW may not have the commication as SWG(i havent played swg so i dont know) but its still a damn good game. Raiding TB, Owning alliance n00bs, CCing alliance, /sniff.
and........MORE AUCTION HOUSESS! DADADADA
uhh lets look at what mmorpg means "Massive Multiplayer (WoW currently has a massive amount of players playing) RolePlaying Game (Well WoW does have Role playing servers and you can roleplay and it is a game of course). So what does a True mmorpg make? I mean I thought there was just MMORPG's not True MMORPG's....