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Worth a 2nd look
GeezerGamer
Member EpicPosts: 8,857
I played GW2 for about a month after release. But I was also curious to see what MoP brought to it's title, World of Warcraft. For me, MoP lasted about as long as it took to get a toon to 90. (not very long) In fact, at the instant I dinged 90, I immediately logged out of the game right there at the quest giver turn in, canceled my sub and uninstalled the game. I'll never give another look at Warcraft. After that, I started playing Rift's Storm Legion expansion. Can't say there was anything wrong with it, but I just couldn't find anything about the class changes to the rogue I could relate to. The play styles, I had built around at 50 were no longer there...Not the way I played. And I didn't want to re grind a new character as I had invested so much time in the rogue. So, I canceled that one too. This left me to play GW2. Hey No sub right????
Dam right!!! On a whim, it was the best choice I made. After I set aside my preconceptions I had from release and accepted the fact that the game had not lived up to my initial expectation. I started playing it again. Only this time with a clear and open opinion. What I had found was that looking at this game through my prior MMO experience was actually preventing me from enjoying this game in a way I could. It's not the easiest concept to try to share since it's mostly internalized, but one example of how this was different is in the way you build. In games like WoW, you build based on what's proven. Almost invariably, Someone has figured out the best way to optimize your role and you either build that way or you perform under your potential. But in GW2, there isn't an established role. There is a function you can play, but not a role. So when my Guardian hit level 80, the 1st thing I did was craft my Berserker set of exotics and proceeded to get my butt handed to me in dungeons. What I lacked was the experience and know how to play the guardian as a berserker (Glass Cannon). So even though I researched a viable build around high damage, it wouldn't work for me. I experimented with condition builds, healing builds and ultimately settled on a damage build with high toughness to mitigate incoming damage while my health was sustained by many small but consistent heals. So even though I had a small health pool, I can still hang. My damage output was less, but my survivability increased.
I didn't mean to get into build strategies, what my point is, the game provides me with the ability to evolve my play style. It changes based on my competency and experience. This of course also provides me with a sort of gear grind as I try different styles I need to constantly try new items. Even though exotic gear has the same stat pools, it's the stats that are allocated that affect what piece I need to wear. But this is all done at my own pace and rate of play. Unlike Games like WoW, different gear with different stats are ally still fully viable based on how you play.
But at the end of the day, the options that this “evolution of character” offers me has me sold on this game. It is one of the things that has kept my interest in GW2 going at endgame. I am having a blast and now have 2 at level 80. Once I get some more gold built up, I'll probably go for a 3rd.
Comments
Welcome back, and that's definitely the right mindset when it comes to builds in this game. Even the least versatile classes atm have more than just 1 viable build, it all depends on playstyle, what stats you want to favor, and what function you're trying to perform in combat. In WvW especially I find myself having to change my function often to adapt to the situation at hand. I need different skills for defending siege, different ones for pushing, different ones for roaming, etc. etc.
Just be careful, though, going full steam for too long can get you burnt out for a bit. I've got 80s of basically every class atm (which doesn't take long at all once you understand how to do it), and I went through a couple months of burn out. Played other games for a while, and now I find myself enjoying the game all over again.
It really is a game that's best enjoyed when you pace yourself. Either do a bunch of stuff and take a break, or take your time.
Really? Honestly in my time playing I found there are 2 ways you play your character.
Condition damage, or raw damage (sorry been a while lack of the term) After that you pretty much have a majority of what you need to be on your way through with a few maybe minor picks here and there, over-all just finding a good build (which involves getting the right keystones (sorry forget the term here too haha ) that make your character excell, such as with my mesmer I made sure to hit the ability to 'clone on roll' ability and staggered my points purely on those abilities.
I guess its no the worst, specially if your looking at WoW which basically has 0 customization, but its by far one of the more limiting ones out there. Tera (closest competitor) I guess has a bit 'weaker' customization, though for me it just felt so much more like I'm personalizing my character picking on the glyphs then Gw2 ever did, though I blame the very poor progression they have in the game for likely giving me that feeling.
Theres stuff to get into that was added, I've seen it and I'm sure it can work to draw attention, but I just don't see how your point of 'customization' really stands. Maybe its just MoP which tore that apart and put IMO the WORST talent sorry, insulting talent systems there, the WORST customization system EVER in a AAA MMo (yeah thats how much I completely hate it) but I really think if your defining factor is 'customizing' or designing your character, I can give you a huge list of games that do it far more then Gw2 does. Its just not one of the reasons I ever see of being a reason for a '2nd look' unless they greatly change the system up to prevent it from being 'grab the big nodes in the talent tree' game with only so many options that work. POE in a way does a similiar thing, but theres so many nodes and so many ways to go it makes it different each time you do it, GW2 is kept linear and only so many things can be done in a combo to perform the best.
I blame PoE I guess for making GW2 'customization' look bad. XD
There is more than 2. You can also do Crit damage. My Ranger, at lvl 80 has a 48% to hit for Critical damage and a 48% increase in damage when a critial hit is done - spike damage but massive.
Ah, I love the "clone on dodge" trait! It turns dodging into an offensive weapon. My asura mesmer tends to be flying all over the place, popping and shattering clones and phantasms at need. I've found a balanced build works for me as a mesmer, with gear spreading points all across the various attributes. More survivable than a glass cannon, more damage than a bunker style build and plenty of flexibility. My favorite utilities are Arcane Thievery, Null Field and Feedback personally for the added control and support they bring. Yeah... mesmer's are fun.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Avoid necro , engineers and rangers for pve and wxwxw , and add thieves for pve on the same list.
ANET was buffed elementalists to heaven since launch (cause some videos from yougstar faggs sux playing with them), on other hand necros are incredible underpowered with 100's of bugs, minions keep 75% the time aiming to wrong targets or not aiming at all, and wells have too long cd's (also the tree on traits its the worst by far from all class's), my main was a necro but changed for the mesmer to have easy kills and 100's more survivability on pvp. Still i was able to kill a lot in wxwxw with necro and i can tell you a lot of times i kill some superior classes cause they always think : LOOK a necro >>easy fast kill, more than half thieves was killed this way but if they play careful forget about it and by the way necro elite skills are painfull bad from all classes (i'm using flesh minion even bugged its better than plague (20secs with 3 mins CD for more or less no dmg and very slow recharging skill rate), and the worst of all elites lich ''you are death necro'' form, this last elite its by far the worst piece of garbage from all elites in game , i can tell you i would never use a elite skill if i would be able to use a normal utility skill (any well or corrupt boon or a speed signet).
Honestly there is. Some are more subtle than others, but they are there, Right now, I have Full "Knights" with berserker upgrades. There are so many mix and match combinations. Now some will have greater effects while some aren't very noticeable at all, but hte point is, that there is a flexibility here I wasn't able to find in other MMOs. As I learn to overcome my inexperience in dungeons and get better at them, I can begin to alter my gear reducing the Toughness I have for Crit damage. This will come as I can learn to better interpret visual queues from fights and can have more success with dodging and blocking . At that point, My shift will be to increase damage.
Why? If nothing else at least it's pretty...
So... you've seen next to nothing barely scratching the surface... well, if it isn't for you it isn't for you.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Note... avoiding a necro for WvW is a huge mistake. Play one... you'll learn why. You'll learn well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yep Engineers are in soooo much trouble. /eyeroll
And your right, necros too are garbage. Thieves & eles are definitely OP and FotM atm, but balance in this game isn't binary.
When people say that engineers or rangers are underpowered, it's not because they suck / can't do anything. It's because they don't have as many viable builds as some of the other classes. A good ranger can still DESTROY players if they know what they are doing, same with the engineer (which can be nearly impossible to kill when played well). Necros, while definitely the hardest class to play in the game atm, absolutely DO NOT suck.
In fact, in Tier1 atm, necros are one of THE MOST highly demanded classes. They're one of the few classes that can absolutely destroy people while still being tanky (i'm talking scary DPS like 4-6k dmg a second). Yes minion AI is a little wonky, but A) that's hardly the only viable build, and
minions are meant to be played with a lot of micro managing involved, which is why minions all have 2ndary skills you are supposed to be using. A well played minion master can be ridiculously hard to deal with, outside of large zerg fights (due to heavy AoE).
Eles are definitely an issue, but they are hardly unkillable. They do need to be toned down, but not in the way a lot of people seem to think. Main problem with ele atm is their burst healing, and a self-res bug (that has since been fixed). Outside of a couple (easily avoidable) skills, eles really don't do that much damage if they aren't glass cannon. When it comes to WvW eles are mostly used for their combo fields, AoE, & focus blocking. Not because they are fotm.
As for mesmers, yes they are scary, and they're supposed to be. However, just like thieves and eles, once you understand how they work, they have VERY exploitable weaknesses. I kill all 3 of those classes on a fairly regular basis. There are absolutely more than 1-2 viable builds for all classes. At the very least, every class has a support/tank, direct damage, and condition heavy build. Not all builds work in high-end PvP, but that hardly means they don't work (or aren't useful) in general play, WvW, or dungeons.
To pretend like this game has no build customization is misleading to the point of dishonesty.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Haha, ya when I play full glass-cannon (condition bomber necro) I specifically look for players who either ignore necros, or are dumb enough to try and run back to their team for safety ;P. It's fun watching armies melt.
LOL,
Yeah, some of my old arguments I will happily retract. But certainly not all of them. I have found a lot more things about this game to enjoy that I missed the 1st time through. But I still have some issues with ANET and how they have handled this title.
I see they STILL haven't adressed class balance and the mesmer still suffer on the same bugs it had when i left the game.
So thanks, but Anet will never get this game together.
yea game is not without its issues and hopefully many will be addressed over the coming months.. they are looking to have some decent competition this year so they need to step up their game on some aspects to keep many interested going forward
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i played Rift for 9 months or so and in that time every single patch added a new fotm unstoppable build to one of the classes while completely destroying another class. No game is without its balance issues and especially as new as this game is. Mesmer is still best class in the game imho despite the bugs
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You are absolutely right here and I think most people don't actually get it. There is alot more customization for you play style then people realize. For example I run Soilder stat gear on my guardian because I run alot of dungeons and I want some survialbility. What does that mean. Well my armor has Power, Toughness, and Vitality stats. Power being the major and Toughness and Vitality being the minors.
The glass cannon build requires the beserker stats you mentionted before which is Power, Precision, Crit damage with power being the major and Precision and Crit damage being the minor. You choose the armor to fit your build. So what does that mean?
My first customization should be seperate but its to expensive and time consuming to get new runes. 5 exotic soilder and one rare soilder armor pieces.
The runes are 5 Superior Runes of thief to add +165 precision and +57 to condition damage, and one Superior Rata Sum for +25 precision. I was after a cheap precision increase.
My second customization had a spineguard with radid stats and exquisite Emerald jewel to push precision toughness and power, and the rest are Valkyrie stats with emerald jewels to push Precision and toughness and power.
3rd Customization Weapons - Exotic GS has a sigil of Blood lust to get additional 125 power. I have been thinking of going with a superior sigil of accuracy to get an extra 5% crit chance but left this in mainly for burrows since they dont seem to be affected by crit. You can change alot with just the choice of sigil.
4th Customization - Trait's (I am jsut trying something out) I went 25 Radiance (Precision and Condition damage), 25 in Valor (Toughness and Crit Damage), and 20 in Virtues (Boon Duration and Viture Recharge Rate).
5th Customization- Doesn't change stats but changes play style and it is tied to traits but is still customizable.
I am not saying this is the most effective build but I customized it to try things out. I wanted to run a high crit GS build. The grandmaster traits didnt off anything interesting to my build so I choose to go with Boon duration and virtue recharge instead. Helps my shouts stay up longer and recharges my virtures quicker. I also went soilders becuase my traits would not help health, and I wanted to get my health up higher for better survivability. I just started playing around so it is by no means tweaked at all to take advantage of all the possiblities. The idea here is that anyone can look at the table above and see that there is a ton of customization. There are 19 different stat combinations for gear alone. Take a look at this link for more info. I have to get back to work
.
Edit: trying to make the table better.
This thread kind of hits a chord with me, as I have been trying to get back into GW2 since playing at launch and not since.
I agree that build diversity is fun and well I do have an Engineer as my main sitting at 61 or so... I came back having watched stuff around in these forums found a big guild to join.. (CSC on RoS). As the big thing I miss is being social and making friends. As my small ring of close friends have all moved to non-mmo's or something else... gotta find more peeps!
Anyways, it seems even in big guilds I'm totally lost. Everyone is pretty much 80 doing whatever 80's do... dungys, events, etc.. The vent server for such a huge guild is basically unused sadly, as I'm a chatty person... I like to interact and all that rot.
I think my biggest issue with trying to get back into GW2 is feeling that I've missed the boat by not being 80. Then you feel as you gotta be 80 but, questing solo isn't exactly my cup of tea in a game like this. Sure I can get into event groups and zerg down events but, thats not exactly social. Sadly I don't have alot of time to do Dungies as I have a 4month old that can cause me to suddenly AFK at a moments notice and well Dungie groups dont exactly appreciate you afking on them in the middle of a bos fight.
I find it strange as normally I can strike up a convo with just about anyone and be on my way but, something is wierd in GW2 and I don't know what is getting to me. It's almost like I feel out of my element... and I've been playing MMO's since they were on the AOL and Compuserver Services and not called MMO's..
Eh.. I'm rambling on and just felt like posting.
Come and join my little guild
I think you kinda put quantity over quality
In my experience smaller "family" guilds are much more chatty and helpful than huge guilds. And I'm talking not only in gw2, but pretty much in any MMO game I've ever played.
As for "I've missed the boat. That exactly where you're wrong. You can't miss the boat with GW2... you can get on top strength of your characters in very short time and there is virtually nowhere else to go. You can go for expensive upgrades (ascended and legendary), but difference to your "normal" top equip is so marginal it's more of a flavor change than power change. Not mentioning PvP where you are automatically bumped to your max level so difference is even smaller.
I wish you good luck in finding nice guild
If you actually care joining me, I'm on Ring of Fire server.
I think you should do dungeons (AC, CM and TA). You have the level for them and it is not so hard to get a group even if you are not 80. Dungeons are a good way to level up and while downleveled 80s have an easier time a lower level character still do fine in them.
Or you could just craft yourself up, jeweler is fast and easy and should give you 10 levels or so.
On my server there is an acceptable population at least in one zone of every level range due to downscaling and people leveling alts so another option is asking people in LA where most players of your level hangs out or guest at the fullest server in your region.
The most fun way however is to either get your guildies to make an alt or get a few new friends into the game and play with them. Leveling is pretty fast but most players dont mind getting another alts, it never hurts to have a few extra classes maxed out.
What you posted here is just your own perception of things and not necessarily countering my points. Instead, you are even wrong on several levels within this context.
{ Mod Edit }Sherman's Gaming
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