Give the man a break. His father was an astronaut. His life long dream was to become one aswell but he couldn't due to bad eye sight. So he makes a fortune and manages to make his dream come true. I think we would all have done the same in his shoes.
Next, the kickstarter thing. RG is a businessman and like all businessmen preparing a new venture, he looks for investors to share the risks with. That's how it works. Businessmen never go on ventures using exclusively their own cash, regardless of how rich they are.
Problem I have with this type of investment, is the investors (players) won't actually hold any stock in the game beyond playing it. You're not really investing, so much as making a risky pre-order. If it never happens then you are screwed, but if it does happen and makes millions you never see a return on your investment.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Problem I have with this type of investment, is the investors (players) won't actually hold any stock in the game beyond playing it. You're not really investing, so much as making a risky pre-order. If it never happens then you are screwed, but if it does happen and makes millions you never see a return on your investment.
If you are willing to risk substantially more than what you normally do KS with ($500,000+) I'm sure RG is more than happy to let you own shares and see the return on your investments if it does well.
If not, well, $5 ain't enough to buy shares.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
In response to post #50. (can't quote long ones on mobile)... NCSoft forced Garriot out of the company? That ia good to know. I mean, he didn't show up to work for 150 days in a row or so.... Hell, the minute he announced he was going into space, they should have canned him and sued him. If I ever get a job like he had, remind me to work at NC. Apparently, they are extremely lenient. If I didn't show up at my job for 12 hours, I'd be canned, and possibly arrested. So yeah, cry me a river about how they forced him out. The man was not at work when they needed him most. I'd bet dollars to donuts he just pockets the cash and doesn't evdn make a game.
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According to this thread's logic, Bill Gates should have used his own personal $$$ to make Windows rather than the money available from the company Microsoft.
You failed logic, didn't you? The situations between MS Dos and Tabula Rasa are miles apart, and not comparable.
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Originally posted by Souldrainer In response to post #50. (can't quote long ones on mobile)... NCSoft forced Garriot out of the company? That ia good to know. I mean, he didn't show up to work for 150 days in a row or so.... Hell, the minute he announced he was going into space, they should have canned him and sued him. If I ever get a job like he had, remind me to work at NC. Apparently, they are extremely lenient. If I didn't show up at my job for 12 hours, I'd be canned, and possibly arrested. So yeah, cry me a river about how they forced him out. The man was not at work when they needed him most. I'd bet dollars to donuts he just pockets the cash and doesn't evdn make a game.
NCSoft ultimately settled for millions with RG.
I don't think all of the terms were made public but NCSoft did some really bad (criminal) things like forge RG's signature on papers while he was in SPACE.
RG: Your honor, I did not sign that!
Judge: It says here you signed it on...
RG: I was in SPACE!
Judge: LOLWUT
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by Jetrpg Kickstarters for these big names is just free money.. kickstarts should be fore small no names... just abusing the public .. with the shit games they will make anyway.
"small no name" don't make shit games?
nope they might .. but they also cannot just get the money from in vestors etc. like the big names can.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by Souldrainer In response to post #50. (can't quote long ones on mobile)... NCSoft forced Garriot out of the company? That ia good to know. I mean, he didn't show up to work for 150 days in a row or so.... Hell, the minute he announced he was going into space, they should have canned him and sued him. If I ever get a job like he had, remind me to work at NC. Apparently, they are extremely lenient. If I didn't show up at my job for 12 hours, I'd be canned, and possibly arrested. So yeah, cry me a river about how they forced him out. The man was not at work when they needed him most. I'd bet dollars to donuts he just pockets the cash and doesn't evdn make a game.
NCSoft ultimately settled for millions with RG.
I don't think all of the terms were made public but NCSoft did some really bad (criminal) things like forge RG's signature on papers while he was in SPACE.
RG: Your honor, I did not sign that!
Judge: It says here you signed it on...
RG: I was in SPACE!
Judge: LOLWUT
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?
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Originally posted by Razeekster Like seriously this is the same guy who spent USD 30 million to go to space and he can't afford 1 million out of his own pocket? If Garriott truly wanted to make this game like he says he would have paid for it himself with his vast fortune.
Awesome !
He did not got one single € from me. He is rich that it stinks already.
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?
If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?
If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Substantiated? He had a salary job, so there wasn't enough evidence. It's not a situation where "somebody" didn't show up. Their top paid celebrity developer, mastermind of the game, whose name is on the actual box, went into apace *during* the launch of the game. That is a flagrant disregard for gamers on Garriot's part, and while he and NC made things even in court, RG never apologized to us.
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I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?
If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Substantiated? He had a salary job, so there wasn't enough evidence. It's not a situation where "somebody" didn't show up. Their top paid celebrity developer, mastermind of the game, whose name is on the actual box, went into apace *during* the launch of the game. That is a flagrant disregard for gamers on Garriot's part, and while he and NC made things even in court, RG never apologized to us.
while i can understand some of the hate, its being directed at the wrong place, there is a reason after all why NC Soft got caned in the courts by RG, so if you want an apology, maybe you need to go write NC Soft for it.
Originally posted by Souldrainer Originally posted by jpnz Originally posted by Souldrainer
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?
If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Substantiated? He had a salary job, so there wasn't enough evidence. It's not a situation where "somebody" didn't show up. Their top paid celebrity developer, mastermind of the game, whose name is on the actual box, went into apace *during* the launch of the game. That is a flagrant disregard for gamers on Garriot's part, and while he and NC made things even in court, RG never apologized to us.
while i can understand some of the hate, its being directed at the wrong place, there is a reason after all why NC Soft got caned in the courts by RG, so if you want an apology, maybe you need to go write NC Soft for it.
I'd buy it of he wasn't in space during the launch window, but he was.
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I'd buy it of he wasn't in space during the launch window, but he was.
So RG isn't allowed leave?
Like I said, as long as everything was legally sound (RG's side was) don't see an issue.
Leave souldrainer alone, he's stuck in a job he can't take a day off with notice (something RG gave NCSoft) without possibly getting arrested so he's kinda...screwed... even sweatshops let you take days off. And even if that wasn't the case he's got really bad logic, either NCSoft is paying him off to defend their good name or, a far more likely explanation, he's pissed RG is what he is and his own life failed to meet his lofty expectations (thus far).
Kickstarter is a usefull tool. Anyone can come on a forum and say they really like a game and sure, I'd play that etc, etc but on day one when the box hits the shelf, it's another story, another excuse. Kick Starter a game and 500,000 people put $5 in, they will actually be there on launch day. Will they stay? That's another story but they are now invested and that's an MMO cornerstone.
Difference: Garriott knows how to build a game. Shilling does not. Curt should have becone a used car salesman, like most other washed-up, unemployed ball players. He was out of this league (no pun intended) the moment he founded Green Monster Games.
Nah ... Garriott KNEW how to build a game. There is no evidence that he knows for quite a while.
Is there evidence he's forgotten or that is something that can't be remembered? Appreciation is subjective. Just because a musician makes an unpopular album or doesn't make an album for 10 years doesn't mean they've forgotten how to do that.
I am not spending my money to find out. However, i encourage you to do so, so i will know.
There are other currently popular mmo kickstarters that I think deserve a lot more scrutiny than RG is getting. How about that one that is promising the rvr moon while not even having any sort of deliverable concept?
Personally, i don't believe in KS and won't spend a dime on any KS project. Save me much time to scrutinize. But yes, you are right. There are more shady ones .. not that i will spend a dime on RG's.
Like I said I'm not one to do Kickstarters, but if that's how people want to fund development, then more power to them.
Exactly. No argument here. If people want to risk their money on pipe dreams, it is their perogative. And if at the end, i have a game to play without risking my money, so much the better.
If the man who designed some of the greatest RPGs of all time (in some ways revolutionizing the genre) wants $35 from me to secure a copy of his first attempt at one since 2000 or so (without EA around to screw it up), then I'm going to give it to him. That's about what, half the price or most AAA titles these days? Even if the game sucks (which I highly doubt) I'm out a hell of a lot less than I was when I bought dogshit like Aliens: Colonial Marines or Fallout 3 (AKA Oblivion with guns).
People who get their panties in a twist over Tabula Rasa are just silly, IMO. Sure the game had a ton of flaws, but it still stands out to me as some of the most fun I've ever had in an MMO. Hell it was rapidly improving when NCSoft cancelled it and attempted to screw him over.
On top of that, TR is what, ONE bad game under his belt (that was actually his fault)? One out of (not counting Ultima 8 or 9) 15? (Akalabeth, Ultima I-VII pt. 2, Martian Dreams, The Savage Empire, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, Ultima Online, Tabula Rasa). I think that track record speaks for itself. RG may come off as being full of himself, but with a record like that he deserves to be.
As far as his money goes I'm sure he has invested, and will continue to invest, plenty of money into the project. I don't concern myself with what other people do with their hard-earned money. It's theirs to do with as they wish, and people who say otherwise (or think he 'owes' them something because of his wealth or that they feel burned by his ONE bad game) are simply jealous that they made poor life choices which prevented their own rise to affluence.
Then again it's trendy to hate on the rich these days, and I guess folks have to keep up their 'internet street cred' or w/e.
If the man who designed some of the greatest RPGs of all time (in some ways revolutionizing the genre) wants $35 from me to secure a copy of his first attempt at one since 2000 or so (without EA around to screw it up), then I'm going to give it to him.
No. He wants you to give him money, and see if he can make a game out of it.
No matter how great he was before .. it was then. Feel free to give money to him for the grand experiment. I would be more than happy to purchase a copy if indeed a) a game is made, and b) it is fun (reviews, demo and what-not), but not before.
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1. Never put your own money in the show.
2. NEVER PUT YOUR OWN MONEY IN THE SHOW!
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all of my this.
If you are willing to risk substantially more than what you normally do KS with ($500,000+) I'm sure RG is more than happy to let you own shares and see the return on your investments if it does well.
If not, well, $5 ain't enough to buy shares.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
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You failed logic, didn't you? The situations between MS Dos and Tabula Rasa are miles apart, and not comparable.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
NCSoft ultimately settled for millions with RG.
I don't think all of the terms were made public but NCSoft did some really bad (criminal) things like forge RG's signature on papers while he was in SPACE.
RG: Your honor, I did not sign that!
Judge: It says here you signed it on...
RG: I was in SPACE!
Judge: LOLWUT
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
nope they might .. but they also cannot just get the money from in vestors etc. like the big names can.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
NCSoft ultimately settled for millions with RG.
I don't think all of the terms were made public but NCSoft did some really bad (criminal) things like forge RG's signature on papers while he was in SPACE.
RG: Your honor, I did not sign that!
Judge: It says here you signed it on...
RG: I was in SPACE!
Judge: LOLWUT
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
Awesome !
He did not got one single € from me. He is rich that it stinks already.
No mercy for him.
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Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Substantiated? He had a salary job, so there wasn't enough evidence. It's not a situation where "somebody" didn't show up. Their top paid celebrity developer, mastermind of the game, whose name is on the actual box, went into apace *during* the launch of the game. That is a flagrant disregard for gamers on Garriot's part, and while he and NC made things even in court, RG never apologized to us.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
while i can understand some of the hate, its being directed at the wrong place, there is a reason after all why NC Soft got caned in the courts by RG, so if you want an apology, maybe you need to go write NC Soft for it.
I understand that. But he didn't show up at work for 3 months before and 2 months after TR came out, so what were they supposed to do?If your company can't deal with someone not showing up to work for 5 months without forging their signature, you have larger issues than launching an MMO.
I'm pretty sure the '5months' was also never substantiated and NCSoft never claimed any 'extended leave' stuff after the settlement. Which suggests, it wasn't actually true since you get into trouble if you lie after a settlement is reached.
As long as RG abided by his employment contract, I don't see the issue.
Substantiated? He had a salary job, so there wasn't enough evidence. It's not a situation where "somebody" didn't show up. Their top paid celebrity developer, mastermind of the game, whose name is on the actual box, went into apace *during* the launch of the game. That is a flagrant disregard for gamers on Garriot's part, and while he and NC made things even in court, RG never apologized to us.while i can understand some of the hate, its being directed at the wrong place, there is a reason after all why NC Soft got caned in the courts by RG, so if you want an apology, maybe you need to go write NC Soft for it.
I'd buy it of he wasn't in space during the launch window, but he was.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
So RG isn't allowed leave?
Like I said, as long as everything was legally sound (RG's side was) don't see an issue.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Leave souldrainer alone, he's stuck in a job he can't take a day off with notice (something RG gave NCSoft) without possibly getting arrested so he's kinda...screwed... even sweatshops let you take days off. And even if that wasn't the case he's got really bad logic, either NCSoft is paying him off to defend their good name or, a far more likely explanation, he's pissed RG is what he is and his own life failed to meet his lofty expectations (thus far).
Nah ... Garriott KNEW how to build a game. There is no evidence that he knows for quite a while.
Of course it is legal. Just as legal as EA selling day 1 DLC ... except in EA case, you actually will get the DLC for sure.
If the man who designed some of the greatest RPGs of all time (in some ways revolutionizing the genre) wants $35 from me to secure a copy of his first attempt at one since 2000 or so (without EA around to screw it up), then I'm going to give it to him.
That's about what, half the price or most AAA titles these days? Even if the game sucks (which I highly doubt) I'm out a hell of a lot less than I was when I bought dogshit like Aliens: Colonial Marines or Fallout 3 (AKA Oblivion with guns).
People who get their panties in a twist over Tabula Rasa are just silly, IMO. Sure the game had a ton of flaws, but it still stands out to me as some of the most fun I've ever had in an MMO. Hell it was rapidly improving when NCSoft cancelled it and attempted to screw him over.
On top of that, TR is what, ONE bad game under his belt (that was actually his fault)? One out of (not counting Ultima 8 or 9) 15? (Akalabeth, Ultima I-VII pt. 2, Martian Dreams, The Savage Empire, Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, Ultima Online, Tabula Rasa). I think that track record speaks for itself. RG may come off as being full of himself, but with a record like that he deserves to be.
As far as his money goes I'm sure he has invested, and will continue to invest, plenty of money into the project. I don't concern myself with what other people do with their hard-earned money. It's theirs to do with as they wish, and people who say otherwise (or think he 'owes' them something because of his wealth or that they feel burned by his ONE bad game) are simply jealous that they made poor life choices which prevented their own rise to affluence.
Then again it's trendy to hate on the rich these days, and I guess folks have to keep up their 'internet street cred' or w/e.
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No. He wants you to give him money, and see if he can make a game out of it.
No matter how great he was before .. it was then. Feel free to give money to him for the grand experiment. I would be more than happy to purchase a copy if indeed a) a game is made, and b) it is fun (reviews, demo and what-not), but not before.