It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point. If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss. The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting. You lose then sense of impact, timing, positional importance, etc that animation lock provides... and you get a generic MMO where you just spam shit w/out regard to anything but it's cooldown (ie GW2, WoW, etc)
Cooldowns in GW2 & WoW are different. In GW2, you will waste a cooldown on most skills if you mindlessly spam the button without timing it or positioning it. It's also different in WoW, where a skill is prevented from being used if you aren't in range. I'm not sure how Tera fits into this, since i never played it, but i would think combat in Tera is more akin to GW2?
how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?..
Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.
Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.
Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything. It becomes extremely lame.
There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake. It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action. GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.
of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.
Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions
It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level. If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game. You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are. In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".
It exists in almost every game that is considered a good console combat game, that was the point. If you feel the need to transplant Demon Souls as your example, have at it hoss. The point is the same. Those games could completely eliminate it if, but then you get the lame ass skating on ass nonsense that most action MMOs suffer from, and the combat becomes significantly less interesting. You lose then sense of impact, timing, positional importance, etc that animation lock provides... and you get a generic MMO where you just spam shit w/out regard to anything but it's cooldown (ie GW2, WoW, etc)
Cooldowns in GW2 & WoW are different. You will waste a cooldown on most skills if you mindlessly spam the button without timing it or positioning it. It's also different in WoW, where a skill is prevented from being used if you aren't in range. I'm not sure how Tera fits into this, since i never played it, but i would think combat in Tera is more akin to GW2?
Yes, there are difference, but the concept is the same and the differences aren't really relavent to this discussion.
Tera combat is more like Neverwinter. It favors heavy animation locks. So do most MMO games that are praised for their combat, such as Vindictus and DCUO(although DCUO has an added layer of knowing how and when you can break animations, but it's still an animation lock game at heart). Their combat is also significantly more involved and skill based for the same reason. Putting yourself out of position on a boss fight or tying yourself up in a long animation at the wrong time will get you killed.
how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?..
Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.
Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.
Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything. It becomes extremely lame.
There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake. It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action. GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.
of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.
Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions
It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level. If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game. You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are. In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".
have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2 as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well.
NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
how does lack of animation lock make something automatically more casual?..
Position becomes less important, because you are not locked into a bad positition.
Timing become sless important, because you no longer have to make the choice of whether doing "big skill x" skill will end up with you eating an attack that you couldn't avoid.
Imagine a fighting game where you can break any animation immediantly, where you never have to commit to anything. It becomes extremely lame.
There is certainly an argument to be made that reducing transition times and cleaning up the raggedness of them is something that Neverwinter could benefit from, but making it a non-animation lock game would be a mistake. It would make the games combat feel too loose and push it farther into MMO and less towards action. GW2 suffers from that, it feels too much like an MMO in it's combat.
of course its very importent.. just implemented in a differn't way. For example gw2 if i don't or CC an attack from certain npcs I get one shot. It's all about positioning, avoiding, and using skills to detract the incoming damage. I understand the argument of the floaty feeling combat and strikes having less "weight" to them though.
Also i'm fine with keeping animation locks and rooting in neverwinter i'm just not fine with how it looks/feels currently and really needs some work to clean up animation transitions
It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level. If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game. You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are. In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".
have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2 as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well.
NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)
What do you do when those mechanics happen? You just hit the dodge button. It's a very basic mechanic,. In the middle of a Thousand Blades? Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy. Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp? Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy. If GW2 isn't giving you clear tells, that's just bad game design to be perfectly honest.
Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels. Tera does too for that matter. I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes. Neverwinter will probably never be that hard, it's a Cryptic game after all.
I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good. The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much. Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish. The Control Wizard could be a bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.
However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.
have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2 as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well.
NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)
What do you do when those mechanics happen? You just hit the dodge button. It's a very basic mechanic,. In the middle of a Thousand Blades? Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy. Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp? Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy.
Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels. Tera does too for that matter. I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes.
I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good. The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much. Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish. The Control Wizard could be a bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.
However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.
what happens when you can't dodge? you don't have unlimited stamina and when a lot is going on you will use up those dodges fast. For tera highest I got was 30 but had no issue soloing all the bams at that level as their tells and attacks were very slow and easy to counter. Overall just comparing 1-30 i found tera much easier pve wise than gw2.
Melee in NW i think is fine i don't enjoy guardian as i feel the block is nowhere near as responsive feeling as lancer in tera and gwf is just meh to me. Rogue is awsome though really love the rogue. Ranged is just awful for me in this game... but luckily i enjoy one class heh.. hopefully more will get added shortly
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2 as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well.
NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)
What do you do when those mechanics happen? You just hit the dodge button. It's a very basic mechanic,. In the middle of a Thousand Blades? Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy. Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp? Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy.
Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels. Tera does too for that matter. I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes.
I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good. The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much. Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish. The Control Wizard could be a bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.
However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.
what happens when you can't dodge? you don't have unlimited stamina and when a lot is going on you will use up those dodges fast. For tera highest I got was 30 but had no issue soloing all the bams at that level as their tells and attacks were very slow and easy to counter. Overall just comparing 1-30 i found tera much easier pve wise than gw2.
Melee in NW i think is fine i don't enjoy guardian as i feel the block is nowhere near as responsive feeling as lancer in tera and gwf is just meh to me. Rogue is awsome though really love the rogue. Ranged is just awful for me in this game... but luckily i enjoy one class heh.. hopefully more will get added shortly
Level 30 is cakewalk . You have to get higher to get a real feel for the game's difficulty, it is nowhere near the same at cap. Leveling is also dependant on class quite a bit, a Slayer or Archer is a joke to level with... a Warrior is (or was, I havne't played recently) quite a bit more of a challenge. But ultimately, PvE leveling is not where Tera's difficulty lies.
All these games have the dodging limitation (in Tera's case it's a cool-down); it's not unique to GW2. Neverwinter even uses an almost identical dodge mechanic to GW2... even the stamina bar is in the same location on the UI.
BTW, I just tested in NW and it's dodge mechanic actually lets you break animation. I'm not a fan of that, but that should be something for you guys that hate animation locks.
It's not a cutting edge MMO, and I haven't seen anywhere that claims it to be. It's essentially an updated throw-back to DDO, and I think for that it does it's job quite well.
- Essentially the game is meant for DDO fans, who want a newer game, as well as enjoy reading tons of lore and backstory in their RPGs. The game offers this.
Aside from that, I think the game is fairly good for what it's intended to be. Again, this isn't supposed to be the next big MMO. It's just a fun game for DDO fans, and that's it.
I have participated in two beta weekends including the current one.
As a founding DDO player I will say in my opinion that this game is not at all intended for DDO players. DDO is 3.5 with a touch of 4E. This game is all 4E with the only things that remind you of DDO are words like "Rogue", "Cleric", "Fighter" and "Wizard". The linear pathing and "fetch 5 of this" quests have nothing to do with DDO. The "level up and everybody gets the same spells, items, and powers" are nothing like DDO. That's more like World of Warcraft, SWTOR, etc.
That said it may appeal to pnp D&D players whom are enamored with 4E.
Playing this game in fact, I found it to be 180 degrees opposite of DDO. The inescapable mouslook controls felt imprisoning--so much so that when I jumped back to DDO I felt like there were chains ripped off of my wrists.
There are some positive things:
The game does have lush environments and wonderful ambient sounds. The voice acting is great. The cinematics (that you can see on YouTube) are wonderful.
Combat is "actiony". It's like I'm playing a console game. Come to think of it, I hear you can use a gamepad to play. I just may have to try it to see if it feels any better...
The game does pay homage well to 4E, in the realm of things like daily powers and at will powers.
People I know in DDO do not find this game to be the next DDO that is going to draw them away.
My only issue with Neverwinter (is there is short version? NWO? NW? NWN???) the potion system. I loath MMOs with that. It means I *constantly* stare at the health-o-meter, I constantly ponder when to use the potion and when not to waste it, and that TOTALLY distracts me from the combat itself. I can't stand it. Passionately.
Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.
No, just no. I can totally live with the graphis and other stuff. But the combat and potion system HAS to be reworked. Just saying how I feel, of course, but tbh I think of Cryptic leaves the game as it is, it's not going anywhere.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
My only issue with Neverwinter (is there is short version? NWO? NW? NWN???) the potion system. I loath MMOs with that. It means I *constantly* stare at the health-o-meter, I constantly ponder when to use the potion and when not to waste it, and that TOTALLY distracts me from the combat itself. I can't stand it. Passionately.
Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.
No, just no. I can totally live with the graphis and other stuff. But the combat and potion system HAS to be reworked. Just saying how I feel, of course, but tbh I think of Cryptic leaves the game as it is, it's not going anywhere.
Your whole screen turns red when you get low, why in the hell are you staring at your health bar? Neither has to be reworked at all, they're both fine... the game does have some problems, it suffers from some extremely generic questing and whether or not there is actually enough content w/out depending on Foundry are both issues... but neither potions nor combat are one of them.
Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.
If anything those two classes are a bit OP. GWF does have a minor heal ability too you know. Did you try dodging/tele at all? A lot of damage can be avoided in this game.
I am not a fan of the root mechanic but I don't think it is near as bad as you make it out to be. At the very least though you should be able to move and break the skill you were attempting for god's sake if you decide to do so.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
May I point out that very few MMO's do not employ some type of combat rooting, it may take another form but it's still there, for example in WoW I play a Druid, it takes me a few seconds to cast my big heal yet if I move that spell is cancelled, so I have to stay "rooted" to the spot to get that spell off. Sure they add in some tools to allow for an instant cast but I have use another ability for that to happen and it's not an "Always on" ability.
Character and npc textures need allot of work, and sometimes gives you some very comic monents.
The environment and feel is great, and raids are extremely fun. I have not had the opportunity to experience everything, and I really want to see what pvp can do.
I just know though, balancing might be a HUGE issue.
I picked up bugs, stopping me fromn progressing, and I've personally logged about 6 in three hours, so you know, this is far from complete.
Overall the combat is fun, and responsive, so no complaints there.
Some npc's aren't voiced, but I assume this will be added later.
I think they took so long to develop this, that it already feels ancient in some respects, but it is fun nevertheless.
A good post. You hit on most of the critical flaws with this game. The rooted system, potion system, and cumbersome UI really felt dated to me. The fact that pressing ALT locks players into one camera position turned me off. I wanted camera rotation. I only got to level 6, but from what little i played, i just couldn't get into the movement restrictions. Surprisingly though, i actually enjoyed the questing and story.
I actually liked looting with F, ala GW2, except in NW it's required to press it twice which gets annoying.
There is also zoom by pressing B, but once again, you're locked into camera position without freedom of camera rotation.
Yeah, this is why I find the game so frustrating. The content is pretty good, but the entire game engine and mechanics of the game feel clunky and very dated. It's such a sad mis-match, because the content developers obviously did the most they could be expected to do with in the confines of a pretty horrible engine.
I think there is a good chance I'll be playing this, at least for a bit, but just as a casual distraction and change of pace, definitely not something I will be putting any money into. If the content had been married with a better engine, better models, better animations, better class and combat mechanics, it might have been a pretty big hit.
I've been playing MMOs for over 14 years and it always sucks to see a title with a lot of positives get totally dragged down but the negatives.
My guess is that the (playable) content creation is Cryptic, but the engine, animations, character models, etc... come straight from the people who develop PWEs B-list F2P MMOs. I wouldn't say any of Cryptic's previous games have been cutting edge, to me they have all looked and felt a generation or so behind the competition, but Neverwinter really looks and feels like an MMO that might have been produced 6 - 8 years ago. (Actually, on the technical side, it reminds me most of a slightly updated Horizons).
Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.
Yeah i've been playing Guardian as well and while the look of the character is decent, I've run a few dungeons and the threat system is pretty horrible so far. I changed over to all the taunt abilities I had and i'm lucky if I have a boss chasing me for 20% of the time which leaves me feeling useless as a tank.
Also, with guarding/blocking having that stamina bar which runs out fairly fast and no means of mitigation when it's out(not evne dodging) really makes me feel useless as I just take hits.
My guess is that the (playable) content creation is Cryptic, but the engine, animations, character models, etc... come straight from the people who develop PWEs B-list F2P MMOs. I wouldn't say any of Cryptic's previous games have been cutting edge, to me they have all looked and felt a generation or so behind the competition, but Neverwinter really looks and feels like an MMO that might have been produced 6 - 8 years ago. (Actually, on the technical side, it reminds me most of a slightly updated Horizons).
this game is 100% cryptic. please remember this game was in develpoment for years as an online co-op, not really an mmo. once PW bought cryptic they made them re-work it into a 'full fledged mmo'
it just feels a Cryptic game, the character movement, tha overall clunkiness. this is not to say its the worst game ever made, but Cryptic for whatever reasons has a habit of coming up short and never really delivering on the potential of their games.
im sure i also read at one point that Cryptic (atari at the time?) bragged how with the engine they use, they could churn out mmo-type games at 18 month intervals. thats most likely a major reason PW aquired them.
you totally missed the point of this game, its a D&D game, and as a D&D player myself and long time gamer since youth, i love that the game has that old school arcady feel, they don't make games like that anymore. what you're proposing is that they make the game just like the rest, with the same systems, same mechanics and what have you.
this game really makes me feel like im playing something different that the rest of the thousands of similar MMORPGs that have been released over the years. just when i was about to give up on MMOs all together due to lack of innovation.
you totally missed the point of this game, its a D&D game, and as a D&D player myself and long time gamer since youth, i love that the game has that old school arcady feel, they don't make games like that anymore. what you're proposing is that they make the game just like the rest, with the same systems, same mechanics and what have you.
this game really makes me feel like im playing something different that the rest of the thousands of similar MMORPGs that have been released over the years. just when i was about to give up on MMOs all together due to lack of innovation.
THIS....ALL OF THIS.
As an avid pathfinder player ( i honestly havent touched 4e D&D) this game just feels right..every bit of me was ready to nitpick it apart and blame PW for all its troubles. But Honestly if the foundry is even half good there are some really talented people who could make some awesome experience for players.
I am in love with my Control wizard. Honestly I solo'd till about lvl ten then i wait for my friends to catch up we ran together and a Wizard Guardian Fighter and Cleric, and aside from some drop rates (looking at you many-arrows orcs) the game felt awesome and it felt like a part experience.
The animations are truly awesome, in my opinion, for what the game lacks in texture definition its add in character. I am level 15 and just finished the clock tower skirmish. there had yet been a reused texture in all the instance i have been through...compare that to games like dragon age 2 or even some early areas in WoW or War,
The classes all seem pretty unique and there are more to come (hint : just look on the fourms about the auction house class search) yeah the whole feat thing is nothing speical, which brings me to my next and final point for this post.
The game is not trying to be cutting edge graphic wise, it is not trying to be a dynamic living world, it is not trying to be the next WoW, it is offering a Dungeon and Dragons experience in a virtual world, (for free)(and yeah I know PW and" free "is not really hand and hand)
and honestly it works, it does what it set out to do, playing with my two rl friends and talking about the world as we see it, finding all the neat lore unlocks (akin to Tome of Knowledge, but not as indepth) talking about bosses and just watching as we all played together was a truly great experience. An experince that I hope to have again when the game launches.
sure if anyone can mess this up its PWE but hey, everything should be taken witha gain of salt, and given a chance.
Thank you, and let me say the foundry has tons of potential. Like Cryptic's other unorthodox MMO Star Trek Online, which has the same foundry feature, it has virtually unlimited player made content that serves well after end game, and also since every creator has his own style and creativity it adds variety to the missions and also could potentially inject original lore in to the game.
Wow, I don't know how you found the game play difficult. I thought it was mind-numbingly easy. I hated the rooted combat, but it was easy to time the big hits for the big enemies and use the small stuff on the trash. Part of why I didn't like the game was that it wasn't hard enough, and normally I prefer casual play in an MMO.
Its a mediocre game with average graphic. Not too bad, but not good either.
I played a cleric till 25 and you really want to avoid this class if you look for a healer. Its lame range damage dealer with bad support and laughable healing ability. Couple this with a broken target system for partymembers and yeah... forget it and get one of the npc instead.
I loved my time in Neverwinter. I think it's a great game! As an old D&D player, and Fogotten Realms at that, I think this is awesome! It takes some getting use to at times.
I do kind of wish there was an AoE loot option for the F key looting.
The standing still for using abilities is a little annoying, but not a game breaker at all. All games use to do this. You had to be still to cast.
This weekend had bunches of new people for the stress test, and some of them got on my nerves. Thank God for the ignore feature! If you don't like a game then log off. It's simple. If you come into game A and do nothing but complain while talking about game B it looks like you work for game B to me. Otherwise why would you waste your time? I figure you are there as advertisement and nothing more. Your opinion is instantly meaningless to me then.
I also think a lot of people want that same rush they had from their first mmorpg experience. Similar to the first hit of a drug that same high can never be obtained again. Each mmorpg title needs to be looked at as its own being. It would be like talking with Bob while wishing he was Jim. Jim's across the room, and you could just go talk with him, but instead you keep talking to Bob while complaining to him that he's not Jim.....
Its a mediocre game with average graphic. Not too bad, but not good either.
I played a cleric till 25 and you really want to avoid this class if you look for a healer. Its lame range damage dealer with bad support and laughable healing ability. Couple this with a broken target system for partymembers and yeah... forget it and get one of the npc instead.
I played a cleric til lv 22 and soloed dungeons a few levels above me with no problems, also with a party and in even played PVP just fine, without any of the issues you just mentioned. Maybe you never lerned to use it.
You can't come it to this game and expect it to perform just like every other MMO before it. Also keep in mind Neverwinter is based on a (single player) RPG, not to mention the dungeon crawling aspects of D&D it self. So for what the game seemed to be aiming for, which is an old school multiplayer dungeon crawler based on D&D 4th eddition and set in Abeir Toril lore, i think they nailed it.
Its a mediocre game with average graphic. Not too bad, but not good either.
I played a cleric till 25 and you really want to avoid this class if you look for a healer. Its lame range damage dealer with bad support and laughable healing ability. Couple this with a broken target system for partymembers and yeah... forget it and get one of the npc instead.
I played a cleric til lv 22 and soloed dungeons a few levels above me with no problems, also with a party and in even played PVP just fine, without any of the issues you just mentioned. Maybe you never lerned to use it.
You can't come it to this game and expect it to perform just like every other MMO before it. Also keep in mind Neverwinter is based on a (single player) RPG, not to mention the dungeon crawling aspects of D&D it self. So for what the game seemed to be aiming for, which is an old school multiplayer dungeon crawler based on D&D 4th eddition and set in Abeir Toril lore, i think they nailed it.
And if you dont like it, there's always WoW...
Until lv 22 there was exactly 1 dungeon, 2 or 3 skirmishes and I kinda doubt that you soloed that. Or do you really want to tell me that soloing the lame missions or whatever is a feat? Any class can do that, its just a matter of spamming pots and a bit movement + npc healer.
Comparing NWN Online with D&D is just an insult. Maybe you should go and play some really old school rpg (even better pen & paper) to know what D&D acutally means. The 4th edition is a joke, a pale shadow of its former glory. And thats what NWN Online is.
That doesnt mean its bad, its just average in every possible way and in the cleric case the half baked copy of "true action combat" breaks a lot.
Comments
Cooldowns in GW2 & WoW are different. In GW2, you will waste a cooldown on most skills if you mindlessly spam the button without timing it or positioning it. It's also different in WoW, where a skill is prevented from being used if you aren't in range. I'm not sure how Tera fits into this, since i never played it, but i would think combat in Tera is more akin to GW2?
It's not as important, on anywhere near the same level. If you wind up a massive attack right when that giant is about to stomp, you are going to be fucked in an action lock game. You need to be more aware of your enemy and what his attack cyles and tells are. In GW2 you just move sideways or hit your dodge button. GW2 combat involves mostly just hitting your attacks as they come off cooldown, or resource manement... very MMO type of combat mechanics. There is very little forethought required, and the forethought that is required is on the same level as WoW's "stay the fuck out of the fire stupid", or "dont stand by a dragon's tail you moron".
Yes, there are difference, but the concept is the same and the differences aren't really relavent to this discussion.
Tera combat is more like Neverwinter. It favors heavy animation locks. So do most MMO games that are praised for their combat, such as Vindictus and DCUO(although DCUO has an added layer of knowing how and when you can break animations, but it's still an animation lock game at heart). Their combat is also significantly more involved and skill based for the same reason. Putting yourself out of position on a boss fight or tying yourself up in a long animation at the wrong time will get you killed.
have you played gw2 much? many enemy tells are not slow where you can just move out the way. Many have huge aoe radious attacks with no circle or anything to warn you. I have been downed so many times no even knowing where the attack came from in dungeons. It really isn't just "stay out of the fire" mechanics in gw2 at least not in my experience. Actually for me Tera was much easier to dodge and avoid hits than gw2 as the tells were easier and attacks were much slower overall. The patterns in Tera I found much more predictable as well.
NW even with the locks and rooting has the same "stay out of the fire" style as other games though with very slow windups and easily avoided circles(at least in the lower levels)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What do you do when those mechanics happen? You just hit the dodge button. It's a very basic mechanic,. In the middle of a Thousand Blades? Who cares, just dodge... animation is canceled, no biggy. Badly out of position when you start up that fireball and you're about to eat a stomp? Just move and keep DPSing, no biggy. If GW2 isn't giving you clear tells, that's just bad game design to be perfectly honest.
Neverwinter gets decidedly more chaotic at higher levels. Tera does too for that matter. I dunno if you've played Tera at the highest levels, but it's pretty intense... no room for mistakes. Neverwinter will probably never be that hard, it's a Cryptic game after all.
I feel like certain classes in NW could be polished up, and others feel really good. The Thief feels really good, the GWF not so much. Naturally, the GWF should be a little more clunky, but it could still use some polish. The Control Wizard could be a bit less gawdy with his flourishes, and quicker with his transitions.
However, going to an inferior combat system isn't the answer.
what happens when you can't dodge? you don't have unlimited stamina and when a lot is going on you will use up those dodges fast. For tera highest I got was 30 but had no issue soloing all the bams at that level as their tells and attacks were very slow and easy to counter. Overall just comparing 1-30 i found tera much easier pve wise than gw2.
Melee in NW i think is fine i don't enjoy guardian as i feel the block is nowhere near as responsive feeling as lancer in tera and gwf is just meh to me. Rogue is awsome though really love the rogue. Ranged is just awful for me in this game... but luckily i enjoy one class heh.. hopefully more will get added shortly
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Level 30 is cakewalk . You have to get higher to get a real feel for the game's difficulty, it is nowhere near the same at cap. Leveling is also dependant on class quite a bit, a Slayer or Archer is a joke to level with... a Warrior is (or was, I havne't played recently) quite a bit more of a challenge. But ultimately, PvE leveling is not where Tera's difficulty lies.
All these games have the dodging limitation (in Tera's case it's a cool-down); it's not unique to GW2. Neverwinter even uses an almost identical dodge mechanic to GW2... even the stamina bar is in the same location on the UI.
BTW, I just tested in NW and it's dodge mechanic actually lets you break animation. I'm not a fan of that, but that should be something for you guys that hate animation locks.
I have participated in two beta weekends including the current one.
As a founding DDO player I will say in my opinion that this game is not at all intended for DDO players. DDO is 3.5 with a touch of 4E. This game is all 4E with the only things that remind you of DDO are words like "Rogue", "Cleric", "Fighter" and "Wizard". The linear pathing and "fetch 5 of this" quests have nothing to do with DDO. The "level up and everybody gets the same spells, items, and powers" are nothing like DDO. That's more like World of Warcraft, SWTOR, etc.
That said it may appeal to pnp D&D players whom are enamored with 4E.
Playing this game in fact, I found it to be 180 degrees opposite of DDO. The inescapable mouslook controls felt imprisoning--so much so that when I jumped back to DDO I felt like there were chains ripped off of my wrists.
There are some positive things:
The game does have lush environments and wonderful ambient sounds. The voice acting is great. The cinematics (that you can see on YouTube) are wonderful.
Combat is "actiony". It's like I'm playing a console game. Come to think of it, I hear you can use a gamepad to play. I just may have to try it to see if it feels any better...
The game does pay homage well to 4E, in the realm of things like daily powers and at will powers.
People I know in DDO do not find this game to be the next DDO that is going to draw them away.
The Old Timer's Guild DDO Chapter Leader
My only issue with Neverwinter (is there is short version? NWO? NW? NWN???) the potion system. I loath MMOs with that. It means I *constantly* stare at the health-o-meter, I constantly ponder when to use the potion and when not to waste it, and that TOTALLY distracts me from the combat itself. I can't stand it. Passionately.
Also it's unfair. Clerics can self heal, Rogues can avoid most damage with the Dummy and other stuff, but Guardian... phew trying to block away dmg was such a hassle, I simply failed at it, so I lost dmg like crazy and spent essentially ALL money on potions. So not funny. Similar with Wizard. And GWF too, if I slash this sword, I get dmg. No way to avoid it. And the rooted thing makes it ten times as hard to avoid damage.
No, just no. I can totally live with the graphis and other stuff. But the combat and potion system HAS to be reworked. Just saying how I feel, of course, but tbh I think of Cryptic leaves the game as it is, it's not going anywhere.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Your whole screen turns red when you get low, why in the hell are you staring at your health bar? Neither has to be reworked at all, they're both fine... the game does have some problems, it suffers from some extremely generic questing and whether or not there is actually enough content w/out depending on Foundry are both issues... but neither potions nor combat are one of them.
If anything those two classes are a bit OP. GWF does have a minor heal ability too you know. Did you try dodging/tele at all? A lot of damage can be avoided in this game.
I am not a fan of the root mechanic but I don't think it is near as bad as you make it out to be. At the very least though you should be able to move and break the skill you were attempting for god's sake if you decide to do so.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
May I point out that very few MMO's do not employ some type of combat rooting, it may take another form but it's still there, for example in WoW I play a Druid, it takes me a few seconds to cast my big heal yet if I move that spell is cancelled, so I have to stay "rooted" to the spot to get that spell off. Sure they add in some tools to allow for an instant cast but I have use another ability for that to happen and it's not an "Always on" ability.
Character and npc textures need allot of work, and sometimes gives you some very comic monents.
The environment and feel is great, and raids are extremely fun. I have not had the opportunity to experience everything, and I really want to see what pvp can do.
I just know though, balancing might be a HUGE issue.
I picked up bugs, stopping me fromn progressing, and I've personally logged about 6 in three hours, so you know, this is far from complete.
Overall the combat is fun, and responsive, so no complaints there.
Some npc's aren't voiced, but I assume this will be added later.
I think they took so long to develop this, that it already feels ancient in some respects, but it is fun nevertheless.
Yeah, this is why I find the game so frustrating. The content is pretty good, but the entire game engine and mechanics of the game feel clunky and very dated. It's such a sad mis-match, because the content developers obviously did the most they could be expected to do with in the confines of a pretty horrible engine.
I think there is a good chance I'll be playing this, at least for a bit, but just as a casual distraction and change of pace, definitely not something I will be putting any money into. If the content had been married with a better engine, better models, better animations, better class and combat mechanics, it might have been a pretty big hit.
I've been playing MMOs for over 14 years and it always sucks to see a title with a lot of positives get totally dragged down but the negatives.
My guess is that the (playable) content creation is Cryptic, but the engine, animations, character models, etc... come straight from the people who develop PWEs B-list F2P MMOs. I wouldn't say any of Cryptic's previous games have been cutting edge, to me they have all looked and felt a generation or so behind the competition, but Neverwinter really looks and feels like an MMO that might have been produced 6 - 8 years ago. (Actually, on the technical side, it reminds me most of a slightly updated Horizons).
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Yeah i've been playing Guardian as well and while the look of the character is decent, I've run a few dungeons and the threat system is pretty horrible so far. I changed over to all the taunt abilities I had and i'm lucky if I have a boss chasing me for 20% of the time which leaves me feeling useless as a tank.
Also, with guarding/blocking having that stamina bar which runs out fairly fast and no means of mitigation when it's out(not evne dodging) really makes me feel useless as I just take hits.
this game is 100% cryptic. please remember this game was in develpoment for years as an online co-op, not really an mmo. once PW bought cryptic they made them re-work it into a 'full fledged mmo'
it just feels a Cryptic game, the character movement, tha overall clunkiness. this is not to say its the worst game ever made, but Cryptic for whatever reasons has a habit of coming up short and never really delivering on the potential of their games.
im sure i also read at one point that Cryptic (atari at the time?) bragged how with the engine they use, they could churn out mmo-type games at 18 month intervals. thats most likely a major reason PW aquired them.
you totally missed the point of this game, its a D&D game, and as a D&D player myself and long time gamer since youth, i love that the game has that old school arcady feel, they don't make games like that anymore. what you're proposing is that they make the game just like the rest, with the same systems, same mechanics and what have you.
this game really makes me feel like im playing something different that the rest of the thousands of similar MMORPGs that have been released over the years. just when i was about to give up on MMOs all together due to lack of innovation.
THIS....ALL OF THIS.
As an avid pathfinder player ( i honestly havent touched 4e D&D) this game just feels right..every bit of me was ready to nitpick it apart and blame PW for all its troubles. But Honestly if the foundry is even half good there are some really talented people who could make some awesome experience for players.
I am in love with my Control wizard. Honestly I solo'd till about lvl ten then i wait for my friends to catch up we ran together and a Wizard Guardian Fighter and Cleric, and aside from some drop rates (looking at you many-arrows orcs) the game felt awesome and it felt like a part experience.
The animations are truly awesome, in my opinion, for what the game lacks in texture definition its add in character. I am level 15 and just finished the clock tower skirmish. there had yet been a reused texture in all the instance i have been through...compare that to games like dragon age 2 or even some early areas in WoW or War,
The classes all seem pretty unique and there are more to come (hint : just look on the fourms about the auction house class search) yeah the whole feat thing is nothing speical, which brings me to my next and final point for this post.
The game is not trying to be cutting edge graphic wise, it is not trying to be a dynamic living world, it is not trying to be the next WoW, it is offering a Dungeon and Dragons experience in a virtual world, (for free)(and yeah I know PW and" free "is not really hand and hand)
and honestly it works, it does what it set out to do, playing with my two rl friends and talking about the world as we see it, finding all the neat lore unlocks (akin to Tome of Knowledge, but not as indepth) talking about bosses and just watching as we all played together was a truly great experience. An experince that I hope to have again when the game launches.
sure if anyone can mess this up its PWE but hey, everything should be taken witha gain of salt, and given a chance.
Its a mediocre game with average graphic. Not too bad, but not good either.
I played a cleric till 25 and you really want to avoid this class if you look for a healer. Its lame range damage dealer with bad support and laughable healing ability. Couple this with a broken target system for partymembers and yeah... forget it and get one of the npc instead.
I loved my time in Neverwinter. I think it's a great game! As an old D&D player, and Fogotten Realms at that, I think this is awesome! It takes some getting use to at times.
I do kind of wish there was an AoE loot option for the F key looting.
The standing still for using abilities is a little annoying, but not a game breaker at all. All games use to do this. You had to be still to cast.
This weekend had bunches of new people for the stress test, and some of them got on my nerves. Thank God for the ignore feature! If you don't like a game then log off. It's simple. If you come into game A and do nothing but complain while talking about game B it looks like you work for game B to me. Otherwise why would you waste your time? I figure you are there as advertisement and nothing more. Your opinion is instantly meaningless to me then.
I also think a lot of people want that same rush they had from their first mmorpg experience. Similar to the first hit of a drug that same high can never be obtained again. Each mmorpg title needs to be looked at as its own being. It would be like talking with Bob while wishing he was Jim. Jim's across the room, and you could just go talk with him, but instead you keep talking to Bob while complaining to him that he's not Jim.....
I played a cleric til lv 22 and soloed dungeons a few levels above me with no problems, also with a party and in even played PVP just fine, without any of the issues you just mentioned. Maybe you never lerned to use it.
You can't come it to this game and expect it to perform just like every other MMO before it. Also keep in mind Neverwinter is based on a (single player) RPG, not to mention the dungeon crawling aspects of D&D it self. So for what the game seemed to be aiming for, which is an old school multiplayer dungeon crawler based on D&D 4th eddition and set in Abeir Toril lore, i think they nailed it.
And if you dont like it, there's always WoW...
Until lv 22 there was exactly 1 dungeon, 2 or 3 skirmishes and I kinda doubt that you soloed that. Or do you really want to tell me that soloing the lame missions or whatever is a feat? Any class can do that, its just a matter of spamming pots and a bit movement + npc healer.
Comparing NWN Online with D&D is just an insult. Maybe you should go and play some really old school rpg (even better pen & paper) to know what D&D acutally means. The 4th edition is a joke, a pale shadow of its former glory. And thats what NWN Online is.
That doesnt mean its bad, its just average in every possible way and in the cleric case the half baked copy of "true action combat" breaks a lot.