I just hope they don't screw up the rest of the game for the sake of "PvP balance" or PvP anything, really. Did anyone really expect world class PvP from a D&D based game? Can anyone name a D&D based game with great PvP?
Folks, it's not a PvP game. Neverwinter is a multiplayer RPG with some MMO areas for commerce/auction houses and PvP shoe-horned in just to say it's there. So, I just hope they keep focusing on the core of the game, which is the Foundry and the Multiplayer RPG experience.
It was better than GW2 SPVP by far, but still not all that great. I wouldn't expect much though. PvP is a side thing in this MMO as it should be. DnD has always been about the PvE.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period.
Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end .
If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with.
My only real complaint with the original post is that it wasn't written in a way I would expect when it comes to a game that's in beta, and will be free to play when it comes out. There's almost no balance or unbias nature (aside from the whole 'I hope this other part is good' brief sentence at the end), no videos explaining what he/she means, and little evidence to back up the assertions.
In my opinion this is especially bad since the game is in fact free to try out and form our own opinions on it, and is in fact still in testing (it doesn't matter what type of testing it is). It just seems kind've vindictive as a whole (and is later admitted by the OP who openly dislikes the developers and how they deal with PvP combat) in that instead of trying to help the developers and posting on their forums, the OP comes to a press site with the sole intent to turn people off the game and express hatred of Crypitc as a whole.
This is a behavior that I have disliked for some time, and only recently come to bat against. There is no public service announcement in that you're saving people a box price here (people can try a free game for themselves and come to their own conclusions); it's just one person thinking others care about their poorly construed thoughts and vindictive nature toward a developer/game we could all try for free and think for ourselves.
How could have it been made into a more appropriate post?
1) Make a more balance thread name; if a thread has bias in it, it sets the stage for the rest of the writing one people read it (their mood in doing such).
2) Have either:
A) The pros and cons of something you are writing about or substantial evidence and a video or two displaying something and ask what others who have played it think.
Ask what others think about certain specifics regarding the PvP and start a conversation about it, casually stating that you weren't feeling it.
3) Note at the beginning that a game is in beta and will be free to play; at the end mention once more the game is free to play and that people should try it for themselves and not just follow your every word as law.
Not only will this avoid extra drama in the thread (and start a "troll/fanboy" war), but it may actually bring about a more appropriate setting for a great conversation topic without needlessly bashing the game.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
No wonder so many mmo's have trouble finding fans. Please . I mean come on . The game is in beta. U find bugs u report them ,, They don't do balanceing till the end stages of beta. If u expect a beta to have balanced pvp u really need to just not play it period.
Beta is not a preview of the finished game. Its a test to find bugs things that dont work right and in the end balancing and graphic issues that they fix. Really alot of games ui changes from start of beta till end .
If u expected this game to play like a finished product in beta no wonder u are disappointed really what a pointless post to start with.
My only real complaint with the original post is that it wasn't written in a way I would expect when it comes to a game that's in beta, and will be free to play when it comes out. There's almost no balance or unbias nature (aside from the whole 'I hope this other part is good' brief sentence at the end), no videos explaining what he/she means, and little evidence to back up the assertions.
In my opinion this is especially bad since the game is in fact free to try out and form our own opinions on it, and is in fact still in testing (it doesn't matter what type of testing it is). It just seems kind've vindictive as a whole (and is later admitted by the OP who openly dislikes the developers and how they deal with PvP combat) in that instead of trying to help the developers and posting on their forums, the OP comes to a press site with the sole intent to turn people off the game and express hatred of Crypitc as a whole.
This is a behavior that I have disliked for some time, and only recently come to bat against. There is no public service announcement in that you're saving people a box price here (people can try a free game for themselves and come to their own conclusions); it's just one person thinking others care about their poorly construed thoughts and vindictive nature toward a developer/game we could all try for free and think for ourselves.
How could have it been made into a more appropriate post?
1) Make a more balance thread name; if a thread has bias in it, it sets the stage for the rest of the writing one people read it (their mood in doing such).
2) Have either:
A) The pros and cons of something you are writing about or substantial evidence and a video or two displaying something and ask what others who have played it think.
Ask what others think about certain specifics regarding the PvP and start a conversation about it, casually stating that you weren't feeling it.
3) Note at the beginning that a game is in beta and will be free to play; at the end mention once more the game is free to play and that people should try it for themselves and not just follow your every word as law.
Not only will this avoid extra drama in the thread (and start a "troll/fanboy" war), but it may actually bring about a more appropriate setting for a great conversation topic without needlessly bashing the game.
I do not feel obligated to name specific pros and cons when I am talking about a select portion of the game. Were it a detailed review about the game as a whole, yes.
I also do not feel obligated to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pvp gameplay. As they have proven time and again that they lack the desire to flesh it out properly.
This is compounded by the fact, that they are using the same engine. Yes it has been modified and upgraded, but it is the same engine used for CO and STO. They didn't have to build everything from the ground up here. It was cheap to make and cheap to develop (relatively speaking).
There are parts of the game that I will go to bat for them on and there may be new parts (the foundry when I get to see it) that will improve my overall score for the game.
Almost every single title is released as a F2P game these days. So yes, any and everyone is free to try it out and form their own opinion, but I'm not going to change my entire line of thinking because a game is free. Most of them are free, it is the standard.
Sometimes a poker in the ass is better than a gentle nudge.
For your sake... I backed off on my strongly worded title!
The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.
Originally posted by Kuppa The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.
Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.
However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target.
The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still.
I don't see myself doing any PVP in this game. For me it is all about foundry and dungeon crawling.
I think devs just insert PVP as a formality even in those MMOS where it doesn't belong.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.
It's nothing special but I don't think it's "bad" necessarily. I had fun in the matches I played with a friend, but yeah, now is the time to complain and the slippery caster classes are a true issue, as well as the potion buffs. Just remove them, I say. Let healers do their job.
Originally posted by Avarix I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.
Exactly my point. But i guess devs add PVP just because it is something you 'have to' in every MMO.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Avarix I gave it a shot with my Cleric and ranked #1. I'm not a PvP player at all and thought it was a nice change of pace, not much else. Did you really go into a D&D IP and expect great PvP? They will be doing the game a huge disservice if they actually try to balance it for PvP, it's simply not meant for it. I could have told you that at best it will be standard fare before even logging into the game however. This is D&D, not CoD.
Did I expect it? Nope. See my post history as I spoke about what I expected from their PVP before it was released. I was hopeful though.
I don't see myself doing any PVP in this game. For me it is all about foundry and dungeon crawling.
I think devs just insert PVP as a formality even in those MMOS where it doesn't belong.
I feel the same way. I prefer pvp in my MMOs over pve, however there are times when I play certain MMOs for pve only and Neverwinter will be one of those. Much like Lotro as well. I have another game that I prefer to pvp in that was designed with pvp in mind that scratches that itch just fine.
Originally posted by Kuppa The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.
Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.
However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target.
The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still.
There is so much garbage being spat out about the PvP on these forums that it's almost criminal. I'm about to open up a thread thats entirely speaking out on the PvP's strengths instead of having a completely negative view on it right form the get go. People need to know that the PvP is awesomely fun as well as flawed.
The problem with this post Jyiiga is that sure, Guardian tanks and two handed fighters have problems keeping up with runners. Although I would still argue that they don't because two handed fighters are fast mofo's with there sprint and other abilities, and Guardians have their charge attack that has ridiculous range. But your right, they don't glue to their targets. However thats why the gametype is Domination...killing isn't important, taking points is, so if the mage is running and you can't keep up...you shoulnd't keep up, you should go back to the point and protect it, you've done your job, you've repelled the enemy.
Whining about not getting kills in a Domination/capture the points gametype is just childish and is nothing but pointless whining from people who aren't thinking about teamwork and don't fully understand their roll in PvP.
As for balance issues. The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced. I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.
As for balance issues. The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced. I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.
Do it! I'd love to read it. The classes seemed somewhat balanced since I know everyone has different special skills, including dodging and blocking, but I didn't see how they were SHOCKINGLY balanced and I'd honestly like to know what I'm missing so I can prepare for release.
You know, going into this I expected some sort of Champions Online mess, but I was pleasantly surprised.
I've PvP quite a lot in a lot of games, and while I can say this PvP isn't anything 'new', it is fun. If you enjoyed Battlegrounds in Rift or Wow or Tera, it's the same layout essentially. 5v5, Fight over some points with some great skirmishes.
I had a really good time. Even got to about 10,000 Glory over the weekend. Balance seemed fine. Even people popping potions just delayed the inevitable.
You know, going into this I expected some sort of Champions Online mess, but I was pleasantly surprised.
I've PvP quite a lot in a lot of games, and while I can say this PvP isn't anything 'new', it is fun. If you enjoyed Battlegrounds in Rift or Wow or Tera, it's the same layout essentially. 5v5, Fight over some points with some great skirmishes.
I had a really good time. Even got to about 10,000 Glory over the weekend. Balance seemed fine. Even people popping potions just delayed the inevitable.
Oh there is plenty of balance tweaking needed. Pulling 25-2-25 (kills-deaths-assists) regularly on Trickter Rogue is a little too strong. Same time GWFs felt rather useless (both when I played one and when I played against them) . The moment you start doing 4-5k+ Lashing Blade hits it's really hard to not kill someone.
My biggest complaint however is that the matches seemed to last too long. They could eithe rincrease the point gain on capture objectives or cut the points required by 1/3.
Originally posted by Kuppa The posted video didn't look that horrible, but I believe that dps rules. I think the bigger problem is the animation rooting. Still if you want PvP go GW2.
Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.
However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target.
The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still.
There is so much garbage being spat out about the PvP on these forums that it's almost criminal. I'm about to open up a thread thats entirely speaking out on the PvP's strengths instead of having a completely negative view on it right form the get go. People need to know that the PvP is awesomely fun as well as flawed.
The problem with this post Jyiiga is that sure, Guardian tanks and two handed fighters have problems keeping up with runners. Although I would still argue that they don't because two handed fighters are fast mofo's with there sprint and other abilities, and Guardians have their charge attack that has ridiculous range. But your right, they don't glue to their targets. However thats why the gametype is Domination...killing isn't important, taking points is, so if the mage is running and you can't keep up...you shoulnd't keep up, you should go back to the point and protect it, you've done your job, you've repelled the enemy.
Whining about not getting kills in a Domination/capture the points gametype is just childish and is nothing but pointless whining from people who aren't thinking about teamwork and don't fully understand their roll in PvP.
As for balance issues. The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced. I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.
Are you saying that the post that said that essentially rouges and sorcerers ruled the leader charts is a lie?
For those not familiar with the icons 1,2,3,4 and 7 are Rogues. Number 5 on the list is a Wizard. Great Weapon Fighters and Cleric at the bottom and my character is the lone Guardian. This is pretty much what you see in each pvp matchup.
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
My thoughts exactly. While rogues do have insane damage, they are easy to kite by mages and clerics. I rarely had any trouble with them, and topped a few times as a control wizard. One game I went 4-4-42...Sure I didn't get kills, but I enabled my team to win.
It's about the victory. Kills are good, but I think there's a nice triangle here on the power balance. I do agree that Great Weapon Fighters need a small buff.
For those not familiar with the icons 1,2,3,4 and 7 are Rogues. Number 5 on the list is a Wizard. Great Weapon Fighters and Cleric at the bottom and my character is the lone Guardian. This is pretty much what you see in each pvp matchup.
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
Maybe they were just looking to get kills. Still if they focused on capping would the other classes been a match for the rouges on a cap point?
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
My thoughts exactly. While rogues do have insane damage, they are easy to kite by mages and clerics. I rarely had any trouble with them, and topped a few times as a control wizard. One game I went 4-4-42...Sure I didn't get kills, but I enabled my team to win.
It's about the victory. Kills are good, but I think there's a nice triangle here on the power balance. I do agree that Great Weapon Fighters need a small buff.
We are on the same page, agree with everything you said. Also agree that two handed fighters need a bit of tweaking.
For those not familiar with the icons 1,2,3,4 and 7 are Rogues. Number 5 on the list is a Wizard. Great Weapon Fighters and Cleric at the bottom and my character is the lone Guardian. This is pretty much what you see in each pvp matchup.
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
Maybe they were just looking to get kills. Still if they focused on capping would the other classes been a match for the rouges on a cap point?
It's hard to say Kuppa. Truly skilled players, no matter there class, could probably find a way to win. They would realize that they have a class diversity disadvantage, and play accordingly. To answer your question though, when I was a rogue, it was difficult for me to stay on a capture point, mainly due to my squishiness, and due to control wizards sniping at me. Thinking critically, it would be very hard for me to put money on 3 rogues, vs a control wizard, a cleric, and a guardian warrior. rogues would eat it.
I ran a couple matches with my control wizard (around lvl 10-15) and it seemed more interesting than the other pvp I've played. I'm not a pvp player though so it might just be that it was refreshing to have a caster that seemed to be competative. It seemed to me that teamwork was the key. My first team won 1000-78 working together and keeping control of all 3 nodes. My second team got beat nearly as bad, but they were running one at a time at the group of opponents who were just sitting and waiting for them to run like lemmings to their death. It'll obviously get more balance tweaks before launch and then people will just have to use common sense and practice at max level before pvp gets into full swing. I'd just give it the time and a chance and then give a verdict.
For those not familiar with the icons 1,2,3,4 and 7 are Rogues. Number 5 on the list is a Wizard. Great Weapon Fighters and Cleric at the bottom and my character is the lone Guardian. This is pretty much what you see in each pvp matchup.
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
Maybe they were just looking to get kills. Still if they focused on capping would the other classes been a match for the rouges on a cap point?
It's hard to say Kuppa. Truly skilled players, no matter there class, could probably find a way to win. They would realize that they have a class diversity disadvantage, and play accordingly. To answer your question though, when I was a rogue, it was difficult for me to stay on a capture point, mainly due to my squishiness, and due to control wizards sniping at me. Thinking critically, it would be very hard for me to put money on 3 rogues, vs a control wizard, a cleric, and a guardian warrior. rogues would eat it.
That is good to hear. Even though I wanted to play some pvp this weekend I couldn't. In time I will hopefully be able to chime in with my opinions. I have a feeling that the rooting will kill it for me though. It did me in in Tera as well.
Rooted animations was something that turned Tera off for me, but for some reason in this game it feels not only necessary, but it feels really good. For classes like Cleric, Rogue, and control wizard. Rooted animations weren't all that detrimental. Rogues attacks are fast enough that you can rush in, slash, then move quickly, only being rooted for a very brief moment. CW's and Clerics have ranged attacks, so i mean, they are whatever. The only classes where I found At-Wills almost totally useless was Guardian fighters, and two handers. Guardian fighters though have such short cooldowns on their cooldown powers that I'm second guessing whether or not that they are meant to use basic attacks at all in PvP.
Two handers are the anomaly though, I've been told that around level 20+ they get better, but they seemed very gimped in the 10-19 bracket. Rooting really hurt me when I tried playing them in PvP. My attacks were so slow that I would get nickel and dimed to death in between my swipes. I only played 1 match with them though. However I didn't really see them as a threat when I faced them.
Just don't immediatly write off the combat just cuz it roots you. Part of what makes rooted animations appealing is that the combat looks great, it's very visually stylish and appealing. There is no jumping around like bunnies that makes the combat really silly looking and annoying.
Comments
I just hope they don't screw up the rest of the game for the sake of "PvP balance" or PvP anything, really. Did anyone really expect world class PvP from a D&D based game? Can anyone name a D&D based game with great PvP?
Folks, it's not a PvP game. Neverwinter is a multiplayer RPG with some MMO areas for commerce/auction houses and PvP shoe-horned in just to say it's there. So, I just hope they keep focusing on the core of the game, which is the Foundry and the Multiplayer RPG experience.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
My only real complaint with the original post is that it wasn't written in a way I would expect when it comes to a game that's in beta, and will be free to play when it comes out. There's almost no balance or unbias nature (aside from the whole 'I hope this other part is good' brief sentence at the end), no videos explaining what he/she means, and little evidence to back up the assertions.
In my opinion this is especially bad since the game is in fact free to try out and form our own opinions on it, and is in fact still in testing (it doesn't matter what type of testing it is). It just seems kind've vindictive as a whole (and is later admitted by the OP who openly dislikes the developers and how they deal with PvP combat) in that instead of trying to help the developers and posting on their forums, the OP comes to a press site with the sole intent to turn people off the game and express hatred of Crypitc as a whole.
This is a behavior that I have disliked for some time, and only recently come to bat against. There is no public service announcement in that you're saving people a box price here (people can try a free game for themselves and come to their own conclusions); it's just one person thinking others care about their poorly construed thoughts and vindictive nature toward a developer/game we could all try for free and think for ourselves.
How could have it been made into a more appropriate post?
1) Make a more balance thread name; if a thread has bias in it, it sets the stage for the rest of the writing one people read it (their mood in doing such).
2) Have either:
A) The pros and cons of something you are writing about or substantial evidence and a video or two displaying something and ask what others who have played it think.
3) Note at the beginning that a game is in beta and will be free to play; at the end mention once more the game is free to play and that people should try it for themselves and not just follow your every word as law.
Not only will this avoid extra drama in the thread (and start a "troll/fanboy" war), but it may actually bring about a more appropriate setting for a great conversation topic without needlessly bashing the game.
I do not feel obligated to name specific pros and cons when I am talking about a select portion of the game. Were it a detailed review about the game as a whole, yes.
I also do not feel obligated to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt when it comes to pvp gameplay. As they have proven time and again that they lack the desire to flesh it out properly.
This is compounded by the fact, that they are using the same engine. Yes it has been modified and upgraded, but it is the same engine used for CO and STO. They didn't have to build everything from the ground up here. It was cheap to make and cheap to develop (relatively speaking).
There are parts of the game that I will go to bat for them on and there may be new parts (the foundry when I get to see it) that will improve my overall score for the game.
Almost every single title is released as a F2P game these days. So yes, any and everyone is free to try it out and form their own opinion, but I'm not going to change my entire line of thinking because a game is free. Most of them are free, it is the standard.
Sometimes a poker in the ass is better than a gentle nudge.
For your sake... I backed off on my strongly worded title!
Animation rooting is an issue, just not one people are exploiting yet. For the most part people wanted to fight, so everyone was in the fray.
However, melee classes will have a major issue engaging caster classes that do not wish to fight. It is very easy for them to just keep moving and then you can not land any standard hits. This was a huge weakness on the Guardian and the Great Weapon Fighter. They have encounter powers to close gaps, but after that they can not stay glued to their target.
The Rogue on the other hand, can just switch to throwing daggers if you refuse to hold still.
I don't see myself doing any PVP in this game. For me it is all about foundry and dungeon crawling.
I think devs just insert PVP as a formality even in those MMOS where it doesn't belong.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Exactly my point. But i guess devs add PVP just because it is something you 'have to' in every MMO.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Did I expect it? Nope. See my post history as I spoke about what I expected from their PVP before it was released. I was hopeful though.
I feel the same way. I prefer pvp in my MMOs over pve, however there are times when I play certain MMOs for pve only and Neverwinter will be one of those. Much like Lotro as well. I have another game that I prefer to pvp in that was designed with pvp in mind that scratches that itch just fine.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
There is so much garbage being spat out about the PvP on these forums that it's almost criminal. I'm about to open up a thread thats entirely speaking out on the PvP's strengths instead of having a completely negative view on it right form the get go. People need to know that the PvP is awesomely fun as well as flawed.
The problem with this post Jyiiga is that sure, Guardian tanks and two handed fighters have problems keeping up with runners. Although I would still argue that they don't because two handed fighters are fast mofo's with there sprint and other abilities, and Guardians have their charge attack that has ridiculous range. But your right, they don't glue to their targets. However thats why the gametype is Domination...killing isn't important, taking points is, so if the mage is running and you can't keep up...you shoulnd't keep up, you should go back to the point and protect it, you've done your job, you've repelled the enemy.
Whining about not getting kills in a Domination/capture the points gametype is just childish and is nothing but pointless whining from people who aren't thinking about teamwork and don't fully understand their roll in PvP.
As for balance issues. The classes were SHOCKINGLY balanced. I have plenty of reasons for this, but that would result in a long post, I'm probably gonna make a thread on this.
Do it! I'd love to read it. The classes seemed somewhat balanced since I know everyone has different special skills, including dodging and blocking, but I didn't see how they were SHOCKINGLY balanced and I'd honestly like to know what I'm missing so I can prepare for release.
You know, going into this I expected some sort of Champions Online mess, but I was pleasantly surprised.
I've PvP quite a lot in a lot of games, and while I can say this PvP isn't anything 'new', it is fun. If you enjoyed Battlegrounds in Rift or Wow or Tera, it's the same layout essentially. 5v5, Fight over some points with some great skirmishes.
I had a really good time. Even got to about 10,000 Glory over the weekend. Balance seemed fine. Even people popping potions just delayed the inevitable.
Oh there is plenty of balance tweaking needed. Pulling 25-2-25 (kills-deaths-assists) regularly on Trickter Rogue is a little too strong. Same time GWFs felt rather useless (both when I played one and when I played against them) . The moment you start doing 4-5k+ Lashing Blade hits it's really hard to not kill someone.
My biggest complaint however is that the matches seemed to last too long. They could eithe rincrease the point gain on capture objectives or cut the points required by 1/3.
Are you saying that the post that said that essentially rouges and sorcerers ruled the leader charts is a lie?
I find this post quite funny actually. Jyiiga claims that rogues are overpowered because they top this leaderboard. Yet the team WITHOUT the 3 badass rogues...won. Very interesting. Sure it was a close game, but the score doesnt lie. Rogues may be great at getting kills, but class balance is key to winning.
So yes, I'm saying that the fact rogues top the scores doesn't mean that they are imbalanced, just means they are great at killing folks. This post proves that they aren't too good at winning.
If what people are claiming about rogues is true. Blue team here should have mopped the floor with red team because they have 3 OP super rogues. Not the case.
My thoughts exactly. While rogues do have insane damage, they are easy to kite by mages and clerics. I rarely had any trouble with them, and topped a few times as a control wizard. One game I went 4-4-42...Sure I didn't get kills, but I enabled my team to win.
It's about the victory. Kills are good, but I think there's a nice triangle here on the power balance. I do agree that Great Weapon Fighters need a small buff.
Maybe they were just looking to get kills. Still if they focused on capping would the other classes been a match for the rouges on a cap point?
We are on the same page, agree with everything you said. Also agree that two handed fighters need a bit of tweaking.
It's hard to say Kuppa. Truly skilled players, no matter there class, could probably find a way to win. They would realize that they have a class diversity disadvantage, and play accordingly. To answer your question though, when I was a rogue, it was difficult for me to stay on a capture point, mainly due to my squishiness, and due to control wizards sniping at me. Thinking critically, it would be very hard for me to put money on 3 rogues, vs a control wizard, a cleric, and a guardian warrior. rogues would eat it.
That is good to hear. Even though I wanted to play some pvp this weekend I couldn't. In time I will hopefully be able to chime in with my opinions. I have a feeling that the rooting will kill it for me though. It did me in in Tera as well.
Rooted animations was something that turned Tera off for me, but for some reason in this game it feels not only necessary, but it feels really good. For classes like Cleric, Rogue, and control wizard. Rooted animations weren't all that detrimental. Rogues attacks are fast enough that you can rush in, slash, then move quickly, only being rooted for a very brief moment. CW's and Clerics have ranged attacks, so i mean, they are whatever. The only classes where I found At-Wills almost totally useless was Guardian fighters, and two handers. Guardian fighters though have such short cooldowns on their cooldown powers that I'm second guessing whether or not that they are meant to use basic attacks at all in PvP.
Two handers are the anomaly though, I've been told that around level 20+ they get better, but they seemed very gimped in the 10-19 bracket. Rooting really hurt me when I tried playing them in PvP. My attacks were so slow that I would get nickel and dimed to death in between my swipes. I only played 1 match with them though. However I didn't really see them as a threat when I faced them.
Just don't immediatly write off the combat just cuz it roots you. Part of what makes rooted animations appealing is that the combat looks great, it's very visually stylish and appealing. There is no jumping around like bunnies that makes the combat really silly looking and annoying.