Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).
The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.
One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.
And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.
I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows. It is not going to be available 24/7. In fact, IT is not a full fledged game. It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff. You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.
That's not my issue at all.
I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas.
It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work
Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).
The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.
One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.
And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.
I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows. It is not going to be available 24/7. In fact, IT is not a full fledged game. It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff. You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.
That's not my issue at all.
I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas.
It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work
Yeah, that was my concern as well. I'd love to IT/Alpha a game. Creatively breaking things is fun, challenging, rewarding and sometimes rememberable ("Ahhh, see that hill over there, it should be a pink teddy bear named George.." Though, I work swing.. on the west coast. I know that CSE is an east coast company, so knowing the broad range of what sort time frames they'd anticipate would not only be better for my own decision, but the ultimately the game's and someone else. I'd love to be at ground zero, but if the timing doesn't work, then it's better for everyone to not get it and let someone else whom does have the time available to do so in my stead.
Now will IT have time specific restraints? (This should be put on the table before you offer it to help us figure out if we can do IT or just stick with alpha).
The last game I beta'd (And I can't say due to the NDA and such) we had two typs of testing.
One was kind of a "On the spot" testing where they gave us short notice to test a specific thing or area out. They didn't really mind if we could or could not make it (They knew we had day jobs) but help was great.
And another was "Test this over the next couple days, then give us as feedback at/by x date and time. Which was required to stay in the beta.
I don't want to speak for Mark, but I'm pretty sure he stated that IT will have specific testing windows. It is not going to be available 24/7. In fact, IT is not a full fledged game. It's just testing out various mechanics and trying to break stuff. You might be thinking more of alpha or beta, and even alpha and beta won't be available 24/7, but will have limited testing windows.
That's not my issue at all.
I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas.
It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work
Pretty sure Mark addressed that somewhere in this thread. Believe he mentioned that they would find a way to get testers from around the world involved in the project. I'm not going to bother looking for it, but I suspect if you look through this thread you'll find it.
I am sure given all the options at this point in time, MOST of us will be able to see where we fit into the grand scheme of it all. We ALL cant be on the ground level of testing and I am sure some of us have no interest in ground level bug reports etc. I know I have mixed feelings about IT access as it can be quite frustrating and time consuming. On the other hand, there is something to be said about watching a game 'grow up' before your eyes and helping nuture the beast it will become.
Might be a stupid question, but while this thread clearly fixes all confusion on the testing tiers of kickstarter, will there be a final draft pre KS launch that shows what all comes with what clearly?
For example I know I want to if possible be involved with IT testing through Beta 3, but I also want Lifetime sub ($1 dollar a year thing), and perhaps a physical map signed by Mark as well.
I am just curious if i'll have a good idea of what i'm aiming for pre KS launch to avoid clicking the wrong option(s) on said KS luanch day to try and make the IT phase cut assuming it fills fast.
I'm pretty pleased with the adjusted tiers MJ, they explain a lot, and i know what tier i'm going to choose
1 question i have, i probably misunderstood something, but:
---
3 year subscription renewable for $1 per year (Kickstarter has asked us not to have a lifetime subscription but a shorter one that renews for a small amount and well, $1 is pretty small)
---
Does that mean after the 3 years you pay a regular sub, or have a 3 year sub, after which you pay $1 for extending it each time with 1 year?
Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur
The tiers are very confusing on the CU site. For instance the $250 physical tier says it "comes with everything above." Then when you read the description, it includes things that contradict this. Why would you need a discounted sub rate if it is supposed to include a 3 year sub renewable for 1 dollar? Why would you need beta 2 access when you are supposed to already have alpha access which includes any and all testing phases after that?
You need to actually list everything that comes with each tier. Saying, "it comes with everything above" is vague and confusing and I am having trouble making heads or tails of each tier because of it.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Mortify
I'm pretty pleased with the adjusted tiers MJ, they explain a lot, and i know what tier i'm going to choose
1 question i have, i probably misunderstood something, but:
---
3 year subscription renewable for $1 per year (Kickstarter has asked us not to have a lifetime subscription but a shorter one that renews for a small amount and well, $1 is pretty small)
---
Does that mean after the 3 years you pay a regular sub, or have a 3 year sub, after which you pay $1 for extending it each time with 1 year?
Three year sub renewable for $1 per year.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by Hairyzac
The tiers are very confusing on the CU site. For instance the $250 physical tier says it "comes with everything above." Then when you read the description, it includes things that contradict this. Why would you need a discounted sub rate if it is supposed to include a 3 year sub renewable for 1 dollar? Why would you need beta 2 access when you are supposed to already have alpha access which includes any and all testing phases after that?
You need to actually list everything that comes with each tier. Saying, "it comes with everything above" is vague and confusing and I am having trouble making heads or tails of each tier because of it.
It will be reworked for launch. Those tiers came from the Massively and MMORPG article and will be corrected in the next 48 hours.
sorry to put you on the spot, but in what beta stages will there not be any character wipes? I wanna do kickstarter beta, but if my character is going to be wiped, it will impact which stage i wanna do. Thanks.
Best regards,
Timetrapper
EDIT* Basically, let me know in which Beta stage will I not lose my character. Or if there is always a danger of a wipe, or just some character wipe guarantees? (wah i hate saying guarantee cuz it puts you in a bind, sorry. maybe all characters get wiped after beta and I'm just being optimistic by hoping not?)
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
sorry to put you on the spot, but in what beta stages will there not be any character wipes? I wanna do kickstarter beta, but if my character is going to be wiped, it will impact which stage i wanna do. Thanks.
Best regards,
Timetrapper
EDIT* Basically, let me know in which Beta stage will I not lose my character. Or if there is always a danger of a wipe, or just some character wipe guarantees? (wah i hate saying guarantee cuz it puts you in a bind, sorry. maybe all characters get wiped after beta and I'm just being optimistic by hoping not?)
I would be highly surprised if he could answer that. Because if he could, he would be psychic and already knowing at which point critical character/database changes would occur.
Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur
Yeah, but lets see what he says. You never know. I'd hate to roll my infil (more presumption! woot) on CU Beta, level the lil' guy, then have him get wiped 1 month before release.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
At each stage of beta, there will be more players involved. There will be far more folks involved when the game reaches Beta 2 and is doing class balancing discussions than when they are doing basic crash and burn testing on basic game mechanics (where, frankly, you don't need 1000 people telling you that sprint isn't working).
Couldn't they pipe each new thread title from the testing subboard(s) for that given day (and number of replies) into a message channel? So if I see "Sprint not working" <4 replies> in a message channel, I know not to bother alt-tab out to posting about it?
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall. Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
The tiers are very confusing on the CU site. For instance the $250 physical tier says it "comes with everything above." Then when you read the description, it includes things that contradict this. Why would you need a discounted sub rate if it is supposed to include a 3 year sub renewable for 1 dollar? Why would you need beta 2 access when you are supposed to already have alpha access which includes any and all testing phases after that?
You need to actually list everything that comes with each tier. Saying, "it comes with everything above" is vague and confusing and I am having trouble making heads or tails of each tier because of it.
It will be reworked for launch. Those tiers came from the Massively and MMORPG article and will be corrected in the next 48 hours.
Awesome. Thanks for working so hard and caring about what us players think.
Originally posted by time007 Yeah, but lets see what he says. You never know. I'd hate to roll my infil (more presumption! woot) on CU Beta, level the lil' guy, then have him get wiped 1 month before release.
Beta characters almost always get wiped. 99.9% of the time.
You may get an early access or something that allows you to play a few days before everybody else and keep your toon, but I've never seen characters persist from beta. Otherwise that would be extremely unfair to everybody that buys the game.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by sweetdigs
Originally posted by time007 Yeah, but lets see what he says. You never know. I'd hate to roll my infil (more presumption! woot) on CU Beta, level the lil' guy, then have him get wiped 1 month before release.
Beta characters almost always get wiped. 99.9% of the time.
You may get an early access or something that allows you to play a few days before everybody else and keep your toon, but I've never seen characters persist from beta. Otherwise that would be extremely unfair to everybody that buys the game.
Not only would it be "unfair", but you never know what sort of insanity still lingers inside a beta character.
Far best to wipe clean and have everyone create a character with production code in an empty database.
Nothing says there can't be a few days extra for preorder/KS and such, to alleviate some crowding issues, but keeping characters is a recipe for disaster
You may get an early access or something that allows you to play a few days before everybody else and keep your toon, but I've never seen characters persist from beta. Otherwise that would be extremely unfair to everybody that buys the game.
I don't consider it a huge issue for those who are buying the game at launch. It's always something that won't be "Fair" to someone, somewhere in the world. An example, early testers will know the system like the back of their hand and will progress far faster and far ealier then the n00bs on launch day. First day of launch, might be 3am in AU vs 2pm Eastern and those nasty east coasters will have a half a day or more to get ahead. Not too mention those east coasters (which I am one of) who will play the game 24/7 until they can go out and gank those of us who have a life and can't play it 24/7.
If I was a first day n00b on launch day, why would it matter to me that there is a small population of existing toons at all levels already in the game? Unless there is no protection against Griefers, it's not going to bother me in the least.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall. Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
" An example, early testers will know the system like the back of their hand and will progress far faster and far ealier then the n00bs on launch day."
This is precisely the reason that a character wipe - which is for the safety and integrity of the database and characters - has less impact.
You'll be up to speed in no time, so no need to risk a corrupt or damaged character.
edit: and with no PVE and the ability to RVR right off the bat...who cares what level you are? Roll up and go kick some ass.
Someone asked earlier, and I appologize if I skipped over your answer, but will access to the backers' forum be layered and/or staggered by access level? I.e. will IT backers have a hidden forum that only they can read and post to, alpha have one only for them and IT, and then everyone else have a beta forum? And, will Beta backers have access to the forum from day 1, or only from the day the beta level they pledged opens?
I ask mainly because I have a limited schedule for testing, so I may hold off to alpha or even Beta 1, but I would like to participate in the forums (if it will include offering ideas on systems and such) as early as possible.
Thanks for all the info.
Lawtoween
Scout - Bors (2003); Warrior Priest - launch to present
I don't think he has specifically answered, but it's been implied that everyone will have forum access....as of when, I don't know.
But back when IT was still Alpha, he was saying people would have a shot at earning entry to the alpha or an earlier phase of beta by contributing on the forums.
However that doesn't mean there won't be private/segregated areas of the beta forums. I guess it depends how they apply the NDA.
I'm of two minds. On the one hand I'd love a completely open forum, but that creates a signal:noise problem on the 'actual' beta portion of it. And it's easy enough to give your 2 cents, but if you can't actually log in to see how a change works...your feedback is of less value; no matter how good it may be.
It'll be relatively easy to have a segregated forum where the devs still reach outside to post ideas/gather feedback etc, but can dive into the 'actual' reports from testers without interference.
Why don't they want more testers? More testers = better beta = better game. They already paid for it after all.
I find that attitude a little worrying, to be honest.
Are we going to get loads of whine posts.. "I paid for this game and I want ......." "You can't do this, I paid for this".?
Kickstarter funders are NOT paying for the game. It does NOT give them rights to dictate how the game is made. Kickstarter funders are donating money to help a game get developed. End of.
Anything that comes as a perk with that donation is extra. So, the perk that comes with one tier is beta 3 access. The perk with a larger donation is beta 2 , 1 or alpha. It's not bought access, it's a thank you gift.
We are not in charge, we will never be in charge. The devs might use feedback, but they will never be obliged to do anything we suggest.
Comments
That's not my issue at all.
I'm just hoping they clarify on times for the IT/alphas.
It wouldn't make sense to buy the IT over alpha if all the testing times are during the hours I work
Yeah, that was my concern as well. I'd love to IT/Alpha a game. Creatively breaking things is fun, challenging, rewarding and sometimes rememberable ("Ahhh, see that hill over there, it should be a pink teddy bear named George.." Though, I work swing.. on the west coast. I know that CSE is an east coast company, so knowing the broad range of what sort time frames they'd anticipate would not only be better for my own decision, but the ultimately the game's and someone else. I'd love to be at ground zero, but if the timing doesn't work, then it's better for everyone to not get it and let someone else whom does have the time available to do so in my stead.
Pretty sure Mark addressed that somewhere in this thread. Believe he mentioned that they would find a way to get testers from around the world involved in the project. I'm not going to bother looking for it, but I suspect if you look through this thread you'll find it.
I am sure given all the options at this point in time, MOST of us will be able to see where we fit into the grand scheme of it all. We ALL cant be on the ground level of testing and I am sure some of us have no interest in ground level bug reports etc. I know I have mixed feelings about IT access as it can be quite frustrating and time consuming. On the other hand, there is something to be said about watching a game 'grow up' before your eyes and helping nuture the beast it will become.
Vymm
Thanks, Mark
Dark Age of Camelot Community Lead
Postcount.net Admin
Ex IGN.com Board Moderator
Ex VN Board Senior Manager, Camelot Vault SM, Warhammer Vault SM, IGNVault Editorial Coordinator.
I feel like this is that time someone told me MJ had a Witch Hunter on my old Phoenix Throne server lol.
Might be a stupid question, but while this thread clearly fixes all confusion on the testing tiers of kickstarter, will there be a final draft pre KS launch that shows what all comes with what clearly?
For example I know I want to if possible be involved with IT testing through Beta 3, but I also want Lifetime sub ($1 dollar a year thing), and perhaps a physical map signed by Mark as well.
I am just curious if i'll have a good idea of what i'm aiming for pre KS launch to avoid clicking the wrong option(s) on said KS luanch day to try and make the IT phase cut assuming it fills fast.
-Drak
Drakonal of Lancelot/Kay
Drakulaz of Mordred
http://www.riskymilk.com/Kujii/Player_Base.wmv (classic guild video alb no cloth group)
I'm pretty pleased with the adjusted tiers MJ, they explain a lot, and i know what tier i'm going to choose
1 question i have, i probably misunderstood something, but:
---
3 year subscription renewable for $1 per year (Kickstarter has asked us not to have a lifetime subscription but a shorter one that renews for a small amount and well, $1 is pretty small)
---
Does that mean after the 3 years you pay a regular sub, or have a 3 year sub, after which you pay $1 for extending it each time with 1 year?
Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur
I felt like that was either
3 years included, renewable at $1/year after.
Or 3 years each time, at $3/subscription
ALSO, BEIBHINNNNNNNNN
The tiers are very confusing on the CU site. For instance the $250 physical tier says it "comes with everything above." Then when you read the description, it includes things that contradict this. Why would you need a discounted sub rate if it is supposed to include a 3 year sub renewable for 1 dollar? Why would you need beta 2 access when you are supposed to already have alpha access which includes any and all testing phases after that?
You need to actually list everything that comes with each tier. Saying, "it comes with everything above" is vague and confusing and I am having trouble making heads or tails of each tier because of it.
Three year sub renewable for $1 per year.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
It will be reworked for launch. Those tiers came from the Massively and MMORPG article and will be corrected in the next 48 hours.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Hi Mark,
sorry to put you on the spot, but in what beta stages will there not be any character wipes? I wanna do kickstarter beta, but if my character is going to be wiped, it will impact which stage i wanna do. Thanks.
Best regards,
Timetrapper
EDIT* Basically, let me know in which Beta stage will I not lose my character. Or if there is always a danger of a wipe, or just some character wipe guarantees? (wah i hate saying guarantee cuz it puts you in a bind, sorry. maybe all characters get wiped after beta and I'm just being optimistic by hoping not?)
I would be highly surprised if he could answer that. Because if he could, he would be psychic and already knowing at which point critical character/database changes would occur.
Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur
Couldn't they pipe each new thread title from the testing subboard(s) for that given day (and number of replies) into a message channel? So if I see "Sprint not working" <4 replies> in a message channel, I know not to bother alt-tab out to posting about it?
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
Awesome. Thanks for working so hard and caring about what us players think.
Beta characters almost always get wiped. 99.9% of the time.
You may get an early access or something that allows you to play a few days before everybody else and keep your toon, but I've never seen characters persist from beta. Otherwise that would be extremely unfair to everybody that buys the game.
QFT.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Not only would it be "unfair", but you never know what sort of insanity still lingers inside a beta character.
Far best to wipe clean and have everyone create a character with production code in an empty database.
Nothing says there can't be a few days extra for preorder/KS and such, to alleviate some crowding issues, but keeping characters is a recipe for disaster
I don't consider it a huge issue for those who are buying the game at launch. It's always something that won't be "Fair" to someone, somewhere in the world. An example, early testers will know the system like the back of their hand and will progress far faster and far ealier then the n00bs on launch day. First day of launch, might be 3am in AU vs 2pm Eastern and those nasty east coasters will have a half a day or more to get ahead. Not too mention those east coasters (which I am one of) who will play the game 24/7 until they can go out and gank those of us who have a life and can't play it 24/7.
If I was a first day n00b on launch day, why would it matter to me that there is a small population of existing toons at all levels already in the game? Unless there is no protection against Griefers, it's not going to bother me in the least.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
" An example, early testers will know the system like the back of their hand and will progress far faster and far ealier then the n00bs on launch day."
This is precisely the reason that a character wipe - which is for the safety and integrity of the database and characters - has less impact.
You'll be up to speed in no time, so no need to risk a corrupt or damaged character.
edit: and with no PVE and the ability to RVR right off the bat...who cares what level you are? Roll up and go kick some ass.
Mark,
Someone asked earlier, and I appologize if I skipped over your answer, but will access to the backers' forum be layered and/or staggered by access level? I.e. will IT backers have a hidden forum that only they can read and post to, alpha have one only for them and IT, and then everyone else have a beta forum? And, will Beta backers have access to the forum from day 1, or only from the day the beta level they pledged opens?
I ask mainly because I have a limited schedule for testing, so I may hold off to alpha or even Beta 1, but I would like to participate in the forums (if it will include offering ideas on systems and such) as early as possible.
Thanks for all the info.
Lawtoween
Scout - Bors (2003); Warrior Priest - launch to present
I don't think he has specifically answered, but it's been implied that everyone will have forum access....as of when, I don't know.
But back when IT was still Alpha, he was saying people would have a shot at earning entry to the alpha or an earlier phase of beta by contributing on the forums.
However that doesn't mean there won't be private/segregated areas of the beta forums. I guess it depends how they apply the NDA.
I'm of two minds. On the one hand I'd love a completely open forum, but that creates a signal:noise problem on the 'actual' beta portion of it. And it's easy enough to give your 2 cents, but if you can't actually log in to see how a change works...your feedback is of less value; no matter how good it may be.
It'll be relatively easy to have a segregated forum where the devs still reach outside to post ideas/gather feedback etc, but can dive into the 'actual' reports from testers without interference.
I find that attitude a little worrying, to be honest.
Are we going to get loads of whine posts.. "I paid for this game and I want ......." "You can't do this, I paid for this".?
Kickstarter funders are NOT paying for the game. It does NOT give them rights to dictate how the game is made. Kickstarter funders are donating money to help a game get developed. End of.
Anything that comes as a perk with that donation is extra. So, the perk that comes with one tier is beta 3 access. The perk with a larger donation is beta 2 , 1 or alpha. It's not bought access, it's a thank you gift.
We are not in charge, we will never be in charge. The devs might use feedback, but they will never be obliged to do anything we suggest.