Browsing the new site design I noticed Andrew Megg's styled as a Highlander (kilt and all) in The Team section. Foreshadowing?
I wouldn't be surprised if Midgar- I mean, Vikings had Dwarves, perhaps with a crafting bonus.
Briton/Celt/Norseman are a given I imagine. Mark mentioned elves not being your typical pointy types before, so I guess that more or less confirms them in some regard. Personally, I always liked Albion being so human-centric, with its 'races' more or less being off-shoots of... well, humans with the exception of that one grey, short, underworld race I forget the name of.
camelot-rp.enjin.com - A hub for roleplayers in Camelot Unchained!
Originally posted by fanglo I loved playing a Fairy in Horizon.
Horizion, wow, I remember seeing their "race" chart and being so amazed, I couldn't WAIT to play it,t hen the game got turned inside out, so many great idea's thrown away and it changed quite a lot.
I googled and found the old Race chart for it, just looking at thi smade me so excited to play it back in the day, just such a diversity in race choices and they were VERY Different in terms of design/shape/size:
I mean Giants.....that are actually Giants, Angels, Demons, Dragons (that are actually huge and you could fly), vampires, an insectoid type race, underwater race, etc. So many great idea's behind that games races, such a shame what happened to most of them.
If CU could have a good diversity of races that weren't all humanoid and had variety that'd be good imo.
Yeah, Horizon certainly did have a cool and diverse selection of races.
Originally posted by drakon3 The only race I DON'T want is a very small one, like Lurikeens. Yes I loved my Lurikeen Vampiir that tore Thidranki up, but in a PvP game the size advantage alone is too much without other disadvantages.
They did have other disadvantages: lower starting strength and constitution and difficulty with LOS at some keep and tower windows. The Camelot Herald rankings weren't top heavy with Lurikeens (or Kobolds) either. Size was an advantage yes but your class and skill were much more important.
I'd say Lurikeens would be much more balanced for CU than a race like Troll with its massive strength advantage over other races for that matter. An Elf eldritch was just as good as a Lurikeen. A Kobold warrior didn't come close to a Troll until high RR.
But this is supposed to be a game where choices matter and not another GW 2 where race choice means basically nothing. Races like Lurkeens and Trolls or new small and strong races would be fine with me.
Yes but the Lurikeens str/con disadvantage you talk about is the same stat shifting all classes had, so that's a wash IMO. Kobolds and female dwarves were ALMOST the same height as lurikeens and no one really complained about them. The reason was they were fatter. The lurikeen models were so skinny combined with the fact they were so short that you could litterally hide almost anywhere with them.
I'll be the first one in line for having vastly different races, but I guess my point was make them like kobolds size wise, not lurikeens.
It's maybe akward but I would really love to see unbalance races. Let me explain.
Like some class/races shouldn't be allow to craft metals, some races should have special abilties like moving slower but being heavier (dwarves?)
Once again it would put a very strategical impact on your choice, you will have to be what you chose. If you are a dwarf you will have to act like one! Being a fucking slow stone and rolling on your ennemies.
Agree with the theory, but where the rubber hits the pavement, things just aren't all doable. Game mechanics will dictate a lot of this. If group speed buffs are in the game, which they probably will be in some form, you can't have one race moving slower than the rest of the group....tons of frustration or that race never gets groups and then is a rarity or novelty in the game.
But as an idea, I'm sure if it fits in the game and doesn't break a core or important mechanic, they'll do stuff like this. It's right in line with everything in the FPs.
FP #6 (Rock, paper, scissors? 'Natch!) touches on this:
"I want CU’s races to be unique, exciting and different from each other. I want players to have to think about the implications of RPS on their choices and because we are gearing this game to core RvR-gamers, I know that our audience can deal with the differences without constantly resorting to the “Nerf the Arthurians now!” (Call me an optimist) Yes, it means more work for my team and oh boy, does it mean that I will have to listen to more “But Mark, if you just change this then my TDD will…” but I know I won’t have to listen to it has much as I would if I was targeting 1M subs would I? So, all our races will have truly meaningful differences from each other in an RPS approach..."
It's maybe akward but I would really love to see unbalance races. Let me explain.
Like some class/races shouldn't be allow to craft metals, some races should have special abilties like moving slower but being heavier (dwarves?)
Once again it would put a very strategical impact on your choice, you will have to be what you chose. If you are a dwarf you will have to act like one! Being a fucking slow stone and rolling on your ennemies.
Agree with the theory, but where the rubber hits the pavement, things just aren't all doable. Game mechanics will dictate a lot of this. If group speed buffs are in the game, which they probably will be in some form, you can't have one race moving slower than the rest of the group....tons of frustration or that race never gets groups and then is a rarity or novelty in the game.
But as an idea, I'm sure if it fits in the game and doesn't break a core or important mechanic, they'll do stuff like this. It's right in line with everything in the FPs.
FP #6 (Rock, paper, scissors? 'Natch!) touches on this:
"I want CU’s races to be unique, exciting and different from each other. I want players to have to think about the implications of RPS on their choices and because we are gearing this game to core RvR-gamers, I know that our audience can deal with the differences without constantly resorting to the “Nerf the Arthurians now!” (Call me an optimist) Yes, it means more work for my team and oh boy, does it mean that I will have to listen to more “But Mark, if you just change this then my TDD will…” but I know I won’t have to listen to it has much as I would if I was targeting 1M subs would I? So, all our races will have truly meaningful differences from each other in an RPS approach..."
Indeed! Using the example from kappenwiz, regarding a race being inherently slower than others, what if there were benefits that offset this? kappenwiz only really looked at the negative, but did not touch on any positives.
What if this race moved more slowly, but was very durable or very strong? The prototypical hulking giant. Maybe this race could protect the casters better? Or, maybe this race has a nice passive effect that makes everyone in the group better in some way?
As long as the negatives are offset by positives, I am all for races being better/worse in areas compared to others. The homogenization of this in recent MMORPGs has made it all so boring.
I would really, really love to see fae races incorporated via the Tuatha. They're by far my favorite fantasy races, and to my knowledge only EQ/EQ2 has really incorporated them.
I know they are neither Arthurian nor Celtic nor Norseish, but they might be interesting.
Centaurs were in DAOC as well (not playable).
Yeah, you needed to play Shadowbane if you wanted to be a centaur.
Now that was an MMORPG with tons of potential that just did not become what it could have been. In some ways I think a lot of Camelot Unchained is going to come from Shadowbane... maybe even more than it takes from Dark Age of Camelot. The structures, the primary focus on PvP/RvR, the strong player-run economy, etc. That is all Shadowbane, not DAoC.
Oh, by the way, if Shadowbane's head writer, Meridian, AKA Sam Johnson, needs work, hire this man, CSE! He is amazing at building worlds and lore. I spent hours just reading it all, not even playing the damn game.
Originally posted by dreamscaper I would really, really love to see fae races incorporated via the Tuatha. They're by far my favorite fantasy races, and to my knowledge only EQ/EQ2 has really incorporated them.
My wife feels the same way. When we played EQ 2 together she always played the fairy race (both evil and good) I enjoy them as well. Actually, I pretty much enjoy all the races except to tend to avoid playing humans (or their subtypes) unless there is a class that is restricted to them that I want to give a go.
I know they are neither Arthurian nor Celtic nor Norseish, but they might be interesting.
Centaurs were in DAOC as well (not playable).
Yeah, you needed to play Shadowbane if you wanted to be a centaur.
Now that was an MMORPG with tons of potential that just did not become what it could have been. In some ways I think a lot of Camelot Unchained is going to come from Shadowbane... maybe even more than it takes from Dark Age of Camelot. The structures, the primary focus on PvP/RvR, the strong player-run economy, etc. That is all Shadowbane, not DAoC.
Oh, by the way, if Shadowbane's head writer, Meridian, AKA Sam Johnson, needs work, hire this man, CSE! He is amazing at building worlds and lore. I spent hours just reading it all, not even playing the damn game.
Since we are making talent suggestions, I would highly recommend or try to get this guy to do any narration work that needs to be done for the game (for an intro movie or the like):
Geoffrey Carlton-Perrinh
He is the person who narrated in the Myth: The Fallen Lords PC game from many years ago. Those who played this will know why I found his narration of the story so compelling. It simply made the game! Too bad he didn't ever do more. I loved just listening to him talk and tell the compelling story and I am usually one to just skim over the story and read past any narration.
To avoid getting this off topic too much though, I wouldn't mind seeing a bugbear!
Originally posted by Foggye I think the Vikings should have "Brings". I hear they're quite powerful.
I'd love to have those Elle-folks (elvish people) and Bergfolks (trollish, rides on 3 legged horse, they use bows, and stirr purridge with their nose ).
"real" mythological creatures too
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
Lurikeens and dwarves will be replaced by leprechauns and garden gnomes.
MJ's remarks on this subject is interesting and it will be fun to see what they come up with.
The obvious races for The Vikings are dwarves and trolls. Elves were also a part of Norse Mythology, but I can relinquish those to the Celts. It should be noted that in the Dark Age, trolls were no larger than humans and it was only later on that they grew to the giant sizes most people recognize.
For me, the Half-ogres and Inconnus never fit in with my vision of Albion. The back-story sort of worked, but they never appealed to me. To go the route of Avalonians and have Britons and Highlanders offered some variations in stats while remaining humans. The Vikings could have different stats for Norsemen, Swedes and Danes, while the Celts could have Ulstermen, Munstermen, etc.
Having races or roughly the same size is likely to ease the concerns about targeting smaller races some have.
I actually remember MJ posting on a thread like this a while back. He didn't confirm anything, but indirectly suggested that where there may have only been only humans BEFORE the veil was pierced/broken, a lot of magic and magical creatures may have changed things / been released.
So I fully expect to see non human races (plus just realistically, he knows he has to include them because of all the fantasy nerds that love the viking/camelot/celt IP)
I would like something like this... basically start each realm off with a humanoid that fits the flavor of that realm... names are from daoc, but you could call them whatever... Then add in 2 fantasy creatures/races, and if stretch goals are achieved maybe a 4th. I like to see size variety in a realm, and magical creatures that fit the theme of that realm. So I always favor only having 1 real "human", and then the rest non human races.
- Camelot
Briton
Small magic creature - Brownie, Gnome, Snotling
Large magic creature - Centaur, Ogre, Lamia
- Viking
Norseman
Small magic creature - goblin, gremlin, dwarf
Large magic creature - Troll, serpentine race, valkyrie, Yeti
- Tuath
Celt
Small magic creature - Pixie, Leprechaun, fairy, sprite, nymph
Large magic creature - Ent, Sylvan, Giant, Satyr, dryad
Originally posted by PerfArt As much as we all like to speculate about PvE and it's presence (or lack thereof) in CU, I think it's safe to say this is one issue where Mark and CSE might remain quiet because they are planning something unique in regard to this, whether it be a creative integration of dynamic PvE events into the overall framework of open-world RvR or a persistent, lore-based PvE threat from beyond the Veil that acts almost as a fourth faction (hello, dragons,) or any combination of those/any ideas. I feel like there will be something that the game world's lore will have to add to flavor and dynamics aside from background.
I just don't think they are fessing yet, and likely won't until the latter stages of development, which is probably a good thing.
This is all kinda derived from MJ's comment on these boards stating (paraphrased) that "maybe" there are powerful brings in the world not concerned with crafting or building (wish I could find the exact quote, but it was a fun lil teaser.)
Of course, there is a very real chance that there will be none of this. We'll see how funding goes.
Originally posted by PerfArt "Powerful beings", not "brings." Ugh.
Originally posted by binskki There might be powerful brings in the world, too. You never know.
Originally posted by Oldskoo
Originally posted by binskki There might be powerful brings in the world, too. You never know.
Everyone knows "brings" are OP - that goes without stating
Originally posted by drakon3 I want a variety of different size races, I just don't want lurikeen sized. Kobold to troll sized is perfect I think.
The problem with the small-sized races is that they tend to become very hard to click-target at range. I recall struggling to target lurikeens and inconnus and not being able to light them up despite mouse-arrow hovering right over their image.
Similarly, trolls and firbolgs went out of fashion once people figured out how easy they were to target. There were some people who continued to run troll warriors, but most trolls disappeared as time progressed.
One way to give larger races a fighting chance is to reduce their targetting area to torso-only clicking.
Comments
Browsing the new site design I noticed Andrew Megg's styled as a Highlander (kilt and all) in The Team section. Foreshadowing?
I wouldn't be surprised if Midgar- I mean, Vikings had Dwarves, perhaps with a crafting bonus.
Briton/Celt/Norseman are a given I imagine. Mark mentioned elves not being your typical pointy types before, so I guess that more or less confirms them in some regard. Personally, I always liked Albion being so human-centric, with its 'races' more or less being off-shoots of... well, humans with the exception of that one grey, short, underworld race I forget the name of.
camelot-rp.enjin.com - A hub for roleplayers in Camelot Unchained!
Yeah, Horizon certainly did have a cool and diverse selection of races.
Yes but the Lurikeens str/con disadvantage you talk about is the same stat shifting all classes had, so that's a wash IMO. Kobolds and female dwarves were ALMOST the same height as lurikeens and no one really complained about them. The reason was they were fatter. The lurikeen models were so skinny combined with the fact they were so short that you could litterally hide almost anywhere with them.
I'll be the first one in line for having vastly different races, but I guess my point was make them like kobolds size wise, not lurikeens.
FP #6 (Rock, paper, scissors? 'Natch!) touches on this:
"I want CU’s races to be unique, exciting and different from each other. I want players to have to think about the implications of RPS on their choices and because we are gearing this game to core RvR-gamers, I know that our audience can deal with the differences without constantly resorting to the “Nerf the Arthurians now!” (Call me an optimist) Yes, it means more work for my team and oh boy, does it mean that I will have to listen to more “But Mark, if you just change this then my TDD will…” but I know I won’t have to listen to it has much as I would if I was targeting 1M subs would I? So, all our races will have truly meaningful differences from each other in an RPS approach..."
Indeed! Using the example from kappenwiz, regarding a race being inherently slower than others, what if there were benefits that offset this? kappenwiz only really looked at the negative, but did not touch on any positives.
What if this race moved more slowly, but was very durable or very strong? The prototypical hulking giant. Maybe this race could protect the casters better? Or, maybe this race has a nice passive effect that makes everyone in the group better in some way?
As long as the negatives are offset by positives, I am all for races being better/worse in areas compared to others. The homogenization of this in recent MMORPGs has made it all so boring.
hmmm, what about centaurs?
I know they are neither Arthurian nor Celtic nor Norseish, but they might be interesting.
Centaurs were in DAOC as well (not playable).
Yeah, you needed to play Shadowbane if you wanted to be a centaur.
Now that was an MMORPG with tons of potential that just did not become what it could have been. In some ways I think a lot of Camelot Unchained is going to come from Shadowbane... maybe even more than it takes from Dark Age of Camelot. The structures, the primary focus on PvP/RvR, the strong player-run economy, etc. That is all Shadowbane, not DAoC.
Oh, by the way, if Shadowbane's head writer, Meridian, AKA Sam Johnson, needs work, hire this man, CSE! He is amazing at building worlds and lore. I spent hours just reading it all, not even playing the damn game.
My wife feels the same way. When we played EQ 2 together she always played the fairy race (both evil and good)
I enjoy them as well. Actually, I pretty much enjoy all the races except to tend to avoid playing humans (or their subtypes) unless there is a class that is restricted to them that I want to give a go.
Since we are making talent suggestions, I would highly recommend or try to get this guy to do any narration work that needs to be done for the game (for an intro movie or the like):
Geoffrey Carlton-Perrinh
He is the person who narrated in the Myth: The Fallen Lords PC game from many years ago. Those who played this will know why I found his narration of the story so compelling. It simply made the game! Too bad he didn't ever do more. I loved just listening to him talk and tell the compelling story and I am usually one to just skim over the story and read past any narration.
To avoid getting this off topic too much though, I wouldn't mind seeing a bugbear!
CLICK: »»» http://CamelotUnchained.net «««
Yup, a fun thing to add as soon as they started drawing from Greco-Roman stuff (TOA).
Were they in Alb, too, near some of the Roman ruins? I can't remember.
I'd love to have those Elle-folks (elvish people) and Bergfolks (trollish, rides on 3 legged horse, they use bows, and stirr purridge with their nose
).
"real" mythological creatures too
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Nerf the Brings! lol
Hehehehe
Lurikeens and dwarves will be replaced by leprechauns and garden gnomes.
MJ's remarks on this subject is interesting and it will be fun to see what they come up with.
The obvious races for The Vikings are dwarves and trolls. Elves were also a part of Norse Mythology, but I can relinquish those to the Celts. It should be noted that in the Dark Age, trolls were no larger than humans and it was only later on that they grew to the giant sizes most people recognize.
For me, the Half-ogres and Inconnus never fit in with my vision of Albion. The back-story sort of worked, but they never appealed to me. To go the route of Avalonians and have Britons and Highlanders offered some variations in stats while remaining humans. The Vikings could have different stats for Norsemen, Swedes and Danes, while the Celts could have Ulstermen, Munstermen, etc.
Having races or roughly the same size is likely to ease the concerns about targeting smaller races some have.
I actually remember MJ posting on a thread like this a while back. He didn't confirm anything, but indirectly suggested that where there may have only been only humans BEFORE the veil was pierced/broken, a lot of magic and magical creatures may have changed things / been released.
So I fully expect to see non human races (plus just realistically, he knows he has to include them because of all the fantasy nerds that love the viking/camelot/celt IP)
I would like something like this... basically start each realm off with a humanoid that fits the flavor of that realm... names are from daoc, but you could call them whatever... Then add in 2 fantasy creatures/races, and if stretch goals are achieved maybe a 4th. I like to see size variety in a realm, and magical creatures that fit the theme of that realm. So I always favor only having 1 real "human", and then the rest non human races.
- Camelot
Briton
Small magic creature - Brownie, Gnome, Snotling
Large magic creature - Centaur, Ogre, Lamia
- Viking
Norseman
Small magic creature - goblin, gremlin, dwarf
Large magic creature - Troll, serpentine race, valkyrie, Yeti
- Tuath
Celt
Small magic creature - Pixie, Leprechaun, fairy, sprite, nymph
Large magic creature - Ent, Sylvan, Giant, Satyr, dryad
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
.... Unless the other two realms have Gives and Takes. Hmmmmm.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
So sorry to be so obscure...I had forgotten that this silly "brings" conversation actually started on another thread...
In case anyone is wondering:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/380932/PvE-in-CU-not-completely-axed.html
The problem with the small-sized races is that they tend to become very hard to click-target at range. I recall struggling to target lurikeens and inconnus and not being able to light them up despite mouse-arrow hovering right over their image.
Similarly, trolls and firbolgs went out of fashion once people figured out how easy they were to target. There were some people who continued to run troll warriors, but most trolls disappeared as time progressed.
One way to give larger races a fighting chance is to reduce their targetting area to torso-only clicking.