Inevitably, somebody is going to spend a lot of money, maybe over a thousand, maybe a couple thousand. They will be super pumped, following this game every year, every month, every week, maybe everday. They will read all the news about the game, they will participate in discussion about its progress. They will go to bed thinking about how fun the game will be.
Then they finally get to play the game and they are disappointed. They can't believe it. What happened? Where was feature X? Why was feature Y so bad? Its okay. Just give it time for things to improve. This is only . OMG its still not improving. WTF. I SPENT SO MUCH MONEY ON THIS PIECE OF SHIT.
I'm going to feel bad for that dude.
This happens all the time now because companies treat betas like an early release, only showing it when its almost done.
So people think of betas as being almost finished now, because they've been conditioned to expect that.
Problem is, a real beta test usually isn't fun, unless you play with awesome people, then pretty much everything is fun.
Real betas are work. Maybe the not-so-qualified founders that choose to beta test should take a psych evaluation before being allowed in.
I'm glad they're doing it. When the expectations aren't met because of the state of the game in BETA and the miniscule dev team, there will be plenty of heads exploding. And they'll use the fact that they blew $100+ on it to justify their outrage (actually, most will simply lie about how much they spent because it can be embarrassing for them). This way we might actually get to see valid criticism of the game before it comes out instead of just marketing department hype.
In my opinion, offering various BETA stages for increasing amounts of money won't get people to care about fixing the bugs more, it will embolden their egos and lead to serious criticism about how all these design decisions actually worked out once put into play.
I'm glad they're doing it. When the expectations aren't met because of the state of the game in BETA and the miniscule dev team, there will be plenty of heads exploding. And they'll use the fact that they blew $100+ on it to justify their outrage (actually, most will simply lie about how much they spent because it can be embarrassing for them). This way we might actually get to see valid criticism of the game before it comes out instead of just marketing department hype.
In my opinion, offering various BETA stages for increasing amounts of money won't get people to care about fixing the bugs more, it will embolden their egos and lead to serious criticism about how all these design decisions actually worked out once put into play.
Yep, that's pretty much it.
It isn't a test, but rather the stage of marketing. There is no accountability for kickstarted projects compared to publisher funded games. If they just drew things on a whiteboard for several years before the money ran out, there'd be nothing these kickstarter people could do about it.
I've kickstarted projects before, but not games. If your game isn't good enough to stand on its own and find funding, or you can't find a publisher who thinks letting your ideas be the only ones that get into the game, then your game isn't worth any amount of money for me to risk.
If the game gets released and is quality, I may buy it then. I'm sure not going to pay their salary while testing their bugs though.
Originally posted by osiriszoran Kickstart Vaporware or games that go straight to F2P. In anycase, what recent mmorpg without major funding has gone on to be epic? What have these Devs produced that shows they can make a quality MMORPG and support it? I truly want to know their qualifications before i shell out money for a product not due for 3 years.
DAOC and Vampire the Masqurade
Recent as in the past 10 years. Also, DAoC had a billion problems with it. Have they learned from their mistakes? Because repeating mistakes seems to be a common theme amongst mmorpg devs.
Originally posted by OgreRaper I think it's a good thing. You know people who help fund a project are going to actually care about how it turns out, and give the best feedback and bug reporting. Rather than inviting random people who sign up for every alpha/beta test they can.
Agree 100%
Also, I see my role as a tester to not only find bugs but to help influence the games direction. Like suggesting adaptations to the current build that would greatly improve a player’s experience.
This way I can only blame myself it the product does not live up to expectations.
Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
Originally posted by ragz45 Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
with how much he and his cohorts are worth why are they not self financing like most entrepenuers do? You would think they would at least have some early screen shots up. Did they just come up with the idea for this game yesterday? lol. Sorry, 180 bucks is a lot for most people especially a product not gauranteed to be used for at least 3 years and not gauranteed to look like mortals online or Darkfall LOL. outdated graphics.
Originally posted by OgreRaper I think it's a good thing. You know people who help fund a project are going to actually care about how it turns out, and give the best feedback and bug reporting. Rather than inviting random people who sign up for every alpha/beta test they can.
Agree 100%
Also, I see my role as a tester to not only find bugs but to help influence the games direction. Like suggesting adaptations to the current build that would greatly improve a player’s experience.
This way I can only blame myself it the product does not live up to expectations.
You would really blame yourself after they took your money and used it to create something that didn't meet your expectations? I mean, maybe you should blame yourself for spending money on a product that doesn't exist. But blaming yourself for the execution? Sounds a little harsh considering you will have zero creative control.
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
Originally posted by ragz45 Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
Sounds unreasonable.
In other words, if this game doesn't make it to launch because the funding runs out, you'll be happy to send him more support checks?
I prefer to support developers by purchasing the game they have released. I don't need to send employees in a random company checks to show my "support".
it isn't that I don't have the money to buy the offers, but rather I have too much reasoning ability to throw away the money. I'm glad you enjoy being a faceless supporter sending him his paycheck as a sign of your undying love for some man, but to me it just sounds very silly.
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
Are you sure you want to commit to this assertion? Really?
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
I honestly dont know much about kickstarter and never took the time to read up on it,because I never liked the idea of it.If what you say about the money is true,then its ones own fault for throwing their money in .
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
The dev here though is putting 2 million of his own money into this project if it funds. He has more to lose then any of us really.
Originally posted by ragz45 Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
I have a significant amount of disposable income and the reason I do is because I don't waste it on pie-in-the-sky promises made by people with unproven track records. Oooo, DAoC was awesome. WAR was not. Anything before DAoC was insignificant at best. That does not amount to a "track record".
If Mark Jacobs wants my money, he can build a working game I can demo and prove to me it's worth it.
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
"If you pay us enough money, we'll let you find bugs for us!"
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
The dev here though is putting 2 million of his own money into this project if it funds. He has more to lose then any of us really.
He also reaps all the rewards if the game is successful while the ones that crowdfund do not. Their money is basically free with no expectation of return on investment. His money is put in because he wants to make money on it. It is not an altruistic act. It is the opposite. He is hedging his bet using your money.
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
There is the market, and there are customers (whether they be foolish or smart).
"Ask not what City State Entertainment can do for me, but what can I do for City State Entertainment!"- John F. Kennedy
This is an opportunity to be kind, to help out, to send someone good juju. The alpha is a way of saying, "Thanks, here is something we can give back to those who wish to participate in a team effort to make something awesome."
Originally posted by Hokibukisa
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
lol@Sklurb, +1
@Hokibukisa: On the contrary, a lot of people still have no idea what Internal Testing truly is for game design and/or quality assurance. That means a large percentage, I'm willing to bet, will be forcefully removed from the testing process before the end (or even half way) because they have no idea what it involves.
Would you rather CSE spend additional funds to hire private QA employees?
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
"Ask not what City State Entertainment can do for me, but what can I do for City State Entertainment!"- John F. Kennedy
This is an opportunity to be kind, to help out, to send someone good juju. The alpha is a way of saying, "Thanks, here is something we can give back to those who wish to participate in a team effort to make something awesome."
Originally posted by Hokibukisa
I guess if people are willing to pay for it, charge em. But damn, this kickstarter is focusing on it like its such a privilege to play an unfinished mmo.
Am cool with rewards tiers, I guess I'm just disgusted with how mmos and beta tests have turned out. Used to be something you'd want to invite experienced users to participate in and you would thank them for it. Now you sell it and the testers thank you for it.
Meh.
lol@Sklurb, +1
@Hokibukisa: On the contrary, a lot of people still have no idea what Internal Testing truly is for game design and/or quality assurance. That means a large percentage, I'm willing to bet, will be forcefully removed from the testing process before the end (or even half way) because they have no idea what it involves.
Would you rather CSE spend additional funds to hire private QA employees?
What is funny to me is when people in beta tests talk about reporting other testers because of exploit use. I have been reported for that before, while working closely with developers to reproduce the exploit to fix it. Players in beta tests are generally idiots, because it's testers in beta tests that are needed, not players.
Personally, I'd love it if they had Quality Assurance employees and actual dedicated testers that are required to have accountability. But that costs money, and this seems to be about getting as much free money as possible.
Originally posted by ragz45 Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
I agree, and it's the entitlement generation mentality we have these days.
Originally posted by ragz45 Lets be honest, you guys that are crying are only crying because you don't have the disposable income to spend $180 or more on a founders package. I don't look at it as paying for alpha/beta, I look at it as putting my support (and money) behind a man whom I've been a fan of for years. If i get a alpha/beta invite for doing so, then great! If not, I will still support him.
I agree, and it's the entitlement generation mentality we have these days.
it has absolutely nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with "show me your vision, your working prototype" before money is commited. Sorry but not everyone is a fool and gives money away to people who write "MMORPG with FFA PVP" on a whiteboard with a marker. Also, MJ has stated he will put in 2 mil if the game gets enough KS funding?? Thats not how it works. YOU (the devs or publishers) put money in first and develop a working prototype (Alpha) Then you can ask for KS money to finish it.
Comments
This happens all the time now because companies treat betas like an early release, only showing it when its almost done.
So people think of betas as being almost finished now, because they've been conditioned to expect that.
Problem is, a real beta test usually isn't fun, unless you play with awesome people, then pretty much everything is fun.
Real betas are work. Maybe the not-so-qualified founders that choose to beta test should take a psych evaluation before being allowed in.
I'm glad they're doing it. When the expectations aren't met because of the state of the game in BETA and the miniscule dev team, there will be plenty of heads exploding. And they'll use the fact that they blew $100+ on it to justify their outrage (actually, most will simply lie about how much they spent because it can be embarrassing for them). This way we might actually get to see valid criticism of the game before it comes out instead of just marketing department hype.
In my opinion, offering various BETA stages for increasing amounts of money won't get people to care about fixing the bugs more, it will embolden their egos and lead to serious criticism about how all these design decisions actually worked out once put into play.
Yep, that's pretty much it.
It isn't a test, but rather the stage of marketing. There is no accountability for kickstarted projects compared to publisher funded games. If they just drew things on a whiteboard for several years before the money ran out, there'd be nothing these kickstarter people could do about it.
I've kickstarted projects before, but not games. If your game isn't good enough to stand on its own and find funding, or you can't find a publisher who thinks letting your ideas be the only ones that get into the game, then your game isn't worth any amount of money for me to risk.
If the game gets released and is quality, I may buy it then. I'm sure not going to pay their salary while testing their bugs though.
Recent as in the past 10 years. Also, DAoC had a billion problems with it. Have they learned from their mistakes? Because repeating mistakes seems to be a common theme amongst mmorpg devs.
Also, I see my role as a tester to not only find bugs but to help influence the games direction. Like suggesting adaptations to the current build that would greatly improve a player’s experience.
This way I can only blame myself it the product does not live up to expectations.
Nanulak
with how much he and his cohorts are worth why are they not self financing like most entrepenuers do? You would think they would at least have some early screen shots up. Did they just come up with the idea for this game yesterday? lol. Sorry, 180 bucks is a lot for most people especially a product not gauranteed to be used for at least 3 years and not gauranteed to look like mortals online or Darkfall LOL. outdated graphics.
You would really blame yourself after they took your money and used it to create something that didn't meet your expectations? I mean, maybe you should blame yourself for spending money on a product that doesn't exist. But blaming yourself for the execution? Sounds a little harsh considering you will have zero creative control.
This is how MMO's have been since their inception pretty much..
If you invest in something you also enjoy,why not help make it the best it can be?
MMO's can never be called a 'finished product'
Sounds unreasonable.
In other words, if this game doesn't make it to launch because the funding runs out, you'll be happy to send him more support checks?
I prefer to support developers by purchasing the game they have released. I don't need to send employees in a random company checks to show my "support".
it isn't that I don't have the money to buy the offers, but rather I have too much reasoning ability to throw away the money. I'm glad you enjoy being a faceless supporter sending him his paycheck as a sign of your undying love for some man, but to me it just sounds very silly.
They shouldn't be a broken project when released, either.
However, it is important to note that kickstarter is not investing. There is no return on investment, but instead it is throwing away money for a variety of reasons at a level that will hopefully allow you to get some future reward (not guaranteed).
Publishers make it so game devs have accountability or else there are consequences. Kickstarter allows game devs to have money and they could nap for years until the money runs out, no problem chumps.
Are you sure you want to commit to this assertion? Really?
I honestly dont know much about kickstarter and never took the time to read up on it,because I never liked the idea of it.If what you say about the money is true,then its ones own fault for throwing their money in .
The dev here though is putting 2 million of his own money into this project if it funds. He has more to lose then any of us really.
I have a significant amount of disposable income and the reason I do is because I don't waste it on pie-in-the-sky promises made by people with unproven track records. Oooo, DAoC was awesome. WAR was not. Anything before DAoC was insignificant at best. That does not amount to a "track record".
If Mark Jacobs wants my money, he can build a working game I can demo and prove to me it's worth it.
He also reaps all the rewards if the game is successful while the ones that crowdfund do not. Their money is basically free with no expectation of return on investment. His money is put in because he wants to make money on it. It is not an altruistic act. It is the opposite. He is hedging his bet using your money.
There is the market, and there are customers (whether they be foolish or smart).
/end
For example, WarZ.
lol@Sklurb, +1
@Hokibukisa: On the contrary, a lot of people still have no idea what Internal Testing truly is for game design and/or quality assurance. That means a large percentage, I'm willing to bet, will be forcefully removed from the testing process before the end (or even half way) because they have no idea what it involves.
Would you rather CSE spend additional funds to hire private QA employees?
What is funny to me is when people in beta tests talk about reporting other testers because of exploit use. I have been reported for that before, while working closely with developers to reproduce the exploit to fix it. Players in beta tests are generally idiots, because it's testers in beta tests that are needed, not players.
Personally, I'd love it if they had Quality Assurance employees and actual dedicated testers that are required to have accountability. But that costs money, and this seems to be about getting as much free money as possible.
I agree, and it's the entitlement generation mentality we have these days.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
it has absolutely nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with "show me your vision, your working prototype" before money is commited. Sorry but not everyone is a fool and gives money away to people who write "MMORPG with FFA PVP" on a whiteboard with a marker. Also, MJ has stated he will put in 2 mil if the game gets enough KS funding?? Thats not how it works. YOU (the devs or publishers) put money in first and develop a working prototype (Alpha) Then you can ask for KS money to finish it.