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Why do they have race limited factions?

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  • QallidexzQallidexz Member Posts: 253

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

  • Sir7681Sir7681 Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by Qallidexz

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

    Unless the "okay with" people would be okay with it either way, and then you'd have discount them and actually have to compare the people who liked it with the people who don't.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Vendac

    Such a narrow minded view...

    1:  Yes, TES is a sandbox.  Do sandboxes work well for the general public when they include PvP.  They do not.  Once again, go look at UO (pre Trammel) as a shining example of a sandbox with PvP.  Chaos is the word that comes to mind, lol.  You have to split the PvP off into its own area which destroys the essense of a sandbox does it not?

    2:  Yep, I remember the in game protests on Pendragon.  Do you even know what it is was about?  Let me refresh your memory a sec: http://www.warcry.com/news/view/57559  <-- Good over view of the issues, but hardly PvP based other than people like to PvP in Emain Macha because it was the easiest.  Check your facts please...

    And what is wrong with clearly being able to identify your enemy at range in a game based on how they look?  Is honestly not being able to look like whatever race you want going to destroy your immersion that much even though the stats and sklils you have available to you are exactly the same?

     Typical of someone starting off with an instult.

    1. Daoc is one of the FEW games with closed off faction lands. Playerbase 250k. SWG, Open world PvP with factions NOT closed off in any way shape or form...350k+. Thus endith your lesson.

    2. Did you just try to make it sound like the people of Hibernia were protesting over PvE aspects of the game that was built around PvP? despite the PvP section in the link you provided, despite the "Making this class unplayable
    except as a follow-bot class seriously hinders Hibernia as a whole"

    BTW, Pendragon was the FIRST...Jesus man even Jacobs talks about wanting to AVOID this very issue with CU and has gone on about it at length as one of his biggest mistakes, the kind that come with 3 unique factions.

    As for your ending...why do you NEED it? Why do developers feel that if you dont have it, you wont be able to figure it out?!? Why take an IP where it doesnt belong and force it on it?!?

    If you wanted DaoC2 that bad, why the hell arent you demanding it...because no other game company wanted the damn thing nor did they want to impliment its god aweful limitations.

     By that logic, WOW's pvp must be 20 times better than DOAC or SWG.

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  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 486

    I am with the 60% majority that has no problem or enjoys race restrictions.

    It makes sense that people/races from different continents and of different buody types and natural talents are able to do things that others cannot.

    You are free to choose any race so there is no problem here. Choose the race that has the class you want. 

     

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • QallidexzQallidexz Member Posts: 253
    Originally posted by khameleon

    I am with the 60% majority that has no problem or enjoys race restrictions.

    It makes sense that people/races from different continents and of different buody types and natural talents are able to do things that others cannot.

    You are free to choose any race so there is no problem here. Choose the race that has the class you want. 

     

     

    /agree.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Sir7681
    Originally posted by Qallidexz

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

    Unless the "okay with" people would be okay with it either way, and then you'd have discount them and actually have to compare the people who liked it with the people who don't.

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

  • SentnlSentnl Member Posts: 73
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Sir7681
    Originally posted by Qallidexz

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

    Unless the "okay with" people would be okay with it either way, and then you'd have discount them and actually have to compare the people who liked it with the people who don't.

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

    You lost us all at console market, ie. The destroyers of gaming.

    Even ES fans dont know what they're talking about, always over compensating on what the ES games actually had

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • QallidexzQallidexz Member Posts: 253
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Sir7681
    Originally posted by Qallidexz

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

    Unless the "okay with" people would be okay with it either way, and then you'd have discount them and actually have to compare the people who liked it with the people who don't.

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

     

    Lol, I knew someone would try to justify their way out of this... What about "vast majority"? I thought you ES-loving carebears were the "vast majority". haha. Yea ... 

    And P.S: The "neutral" people you're referring to, indicated that they'd be FINE with faction locks... not that they'd be FINE WITH them REMOVING faction locks. 

     

  • wordizwordiz Member Posts: 464
    Looks like the angry folks take a "L" on this one.

    http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585
    the factions aren't split by race.  they split by geographical location.
  • QallidexzQallidexz Member Posts: 253
    Originally posted by muffins89
    the factions aren't split by race.  they split by geographical location.

     

    And race.

  • AnakamiAnakami Member Posts: 103

    I always see polls as a rough indication of tendencies or a pool of opinions and attitudes about the game and its design. Of course, it is only the most outspoken people who care enough about the game that they are willing to discuss it on an internet forum, but still, there is a high probabability that their opinions are shared by a few more people who don't participate in forums.

    You still can't draw accurate conclusions from the numbers in these polls, because we really don't know how many of the silent majority would agree or disagree or have totally different views on a topic.

    That's why the only thing we can do is look at examples where we know we can approach a somewhat accurate picture of the situation at hand.

    I'll just give a brief example of my circle of friends and how this issue we have been discussing here in various threads now is affecting them.

    For starters, there is me. I am the only one of my group of friends who bothers with forum discussions at all and keeps the rest up to date. I do that because we all tend to play the same MMOs together, with me and 2 of my friends being the vanguard and convincing the rest to follow. The rest consisting of family members and acquaintances from other online games and social networks.

    Now I know that most of my friends are fans of the ES series. Ironically, most of them were also long time DAoC players, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a very simple approach to this whole debate.

    If there is no option to allow us to play and chat together ingame while all having our race of choice, they won't buy the game and probably wait for WildStar, which is also on our target list and a game I will scout for them when it releases.

    If they allow cross faction grouping and communication we will all preorder and stay with the game for a long time, because we all have been waiting to play together in the world of Tamriel. Personally, I would stay subscribed just for the setting, which is imo the game's greatest strength.

    All in all there are about a dozen (12) people whose decision whether to buy this game or not hinges on the race lock issue. Not a huge number by any means and not indicative of anything, but just an example that does not rely on assumptions.

  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by Anakami

    I always see polls as a rough indication of tendencies or a pool of opinions and attitudes about the game and its design. Of course, it is only the most outspoken people who care enough about the game that they are willing to discuss it on an internet forum, but still, there is a high probabability that their opinions are shared by a few more people who don't participate in forums.

    You still can't draw accurate conclusions from the numbers in these polls, because we really don't know how many of the silent majority would agree or disagree or have totally different views on a topic.

    That's why the only thing we can do is look at examples where we know we can approach a somewhat accurate picture of the situation at hand.

    I'll just give a brief example of my circle of friends and how this issue we have been discussing here in various threads now is affecting them.

    For starters, there is me. I am the only one of my group of friends who bothers with forum discussions at all and keeps the rest up to date. I do that because we all tend to play the same MMOs together, with me and 2 of my friends being the vanguard and convincing the rest to follow. The rest consisting of family members and acquaintances from other online games and social networks.

    Now I know that most of my friends are fans of the ES series. Ironically, most of them were also long time DAoC players, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a very simple approach to this whole debate.

    If there is no option to allow us to play and chat together ingame while all having our race of choice, they won't buy the game and probably wait for WildStar, which is also on our target list and a game I will scout for them when it releases.

    If they allow cross faction grouping and communication we will all preorder and stay with the game for a long time, because we all have been waiting to play together in the world of Tamriel. Personally, I would stay subscribed just for the setting, which is imo the game's greatest strength.

    All in all there are about a dozen (12) people whose decision whether to buy this game or not hinges on the race lock issue. Not a huge number by any means and not indicative of anything, but just an example that does not rely on assumptions.

    I wish you and your dozen (12) friends the best of luck, in Wild Star.

  • SentnlSentnl Member Posts: 73
    Originally posted by Hjamnr

    I wish you and your dozen (12) friends the best of luck, in Wild Star.

    I lol'd

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • AnakamiAnakami Member Posts: 103
    Originally posted by Hjamnr
     

    I wish you and your dozen (12) friends the best of luck, in Wild Star.

    Thanks! I am pretty sure we will enjoy that game, it has a lot of nice features. Now if we could also get a TESO that we enjoy, now that would be super awesome :)

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,901
    My guess... that some time they will be adding new races for each faction and maybe even cross over races between factions. But you will need to earn or buy them so they are rare. If there is a demand dont be shocked if its used to reward or make money from that demand. Maybe an expansion you have to buy would be another way to capitalize off this =-) I dont care how they do it as long as its good for the game not just slapped together.
  • AnakamiAnakami Member Posts: 103
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    My guess... that some time they will be adding new races for each faction and maybe even cross over races between factions. But you will need to earn or buy them so they are rare. If there is a demand dont be shocked if its used to reward or make money from that demand. Maybe an expansion you have to buy would be another way to capitalize off this =-) I dont care how they do it as long as its good for the game not just slapped together.

    I would agree that I rather prefer that they do it right from the start or not at all. Some patchwork solutions rarely improve a game and a game that tries to be everything will have a hard time convincing anyone.

    As I said before, at the moment all we can do is wait until they release more information about the game. I am still hoping that their mega server tech and preference system will allow for lots of options and special rule sets, so that a lot of people will find something int he game they can enjoy :)

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,901
    Originally posted by Anakami
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    My guess... that some time they will be adding new races for each faction and maybe even cross over races between factions. But you will need to earn or buy them so they are rare. If there is a demand dont be shocked if its used to reward or make money from that demand. Maybe an expansion you have to buy would be another way to capitalize off this =-) I dont care how they do it as long as its good for the game not just slapped together.

    I would agree that I rather prefer that they do it right from the start or not at all. Some patchwork solutions rarely improve a game and a game that tries to be everything will have a hard time convincing anyone.

    As I said before, at the moment all we can do is wait until they release more information about the game. I am still hoping that their mega server tech and preference system will allow for lots of options and special rule sets, so that a lot of people will find something int he game they can enjoy :)

    What ya want and how MMOs do it is another. Most MMOs start out with 3-5 races a faction but most MMOs have only 2 factions. ESO has 3 factions so they have 9 races to make art that fits each race. Thats a lot of work and is about how much work most new MMOs take on to start with. How they add races will follow how most MMOs do. Unique races for each faction would be my guess but maybe something else. Flip out if ya like but this is standard fair for MMOs and far from skimping out. DAoC with 3 faction war only started out with 1 more race per faction but the art was not as complex as ESO.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Sir7681
    Originally posted by Qallidexz

    AHAHA.... THIS is hillariious. I love how Elder Scrolls players are contantly talking like they're the "VAST MAJORITY" when in reality, this poll proves that 61% of people are either fine with, or HAPPY with, the faction locks.... Looks like ZeniMax got stuck listening to the "vocal minority", and let themselves change their gameplay because of that. Whoops!

     

    Unless the "okay with" people would be okay with it either way, and then you'd have discount them and actually have to compare the people who liked it with the people who don't.

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

     

    Lol, I knew someone would try to justify their way out of this... What about "vast majority"? I thought you ES-loving carebears were the "vast majority". haha. Yea ... 

    And P.S: The "neutral" people you're referring to, indicated that they'd be FINE with faction locks... not that they'd be FINE WITH them REMOVING faction locks. 

     

    ok than look at this poll with more total votes on a nother ES thread...erp derp

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/378180/page/1

  • TuktzTuktz Member Posts: 299

    The pvp / RVR / AVA may have taken a page out of daoc's success, but I don't see how PVE in TESO is anything like daoc's.

     

    I don't think the PVE side is any more similar/disimilar to daoc's PVE than any other MMO. In fact I could spout off a couple mmo's that TESO's PVE sound a lot more similar to than daoc's.

     

    So if you're a TES player used to a single player game, and pvp doesn't even interest you, then I don't see how you could say this is daoc reskinned anyway lol.

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  • Sir7681Sir7681 Member Posts: 6
    I've said everyting I wanted to say, and I already know it doesn't make any difference, but I felt the need to voice my dislike for the way things were done.  I'd honestly say that the people interested are pretty much split down the middle on this issue, or pretty close to it.  What's been said about not buying the game if you're not happy with it, is absolutely true...and if this game didn't get the following it needed, and flopped, it wouldn't be the first, and it also won't be the last.  All I can say for sure is, it doesn't live up to MY expectations, and I won't be playing it.  For all those who choose to, good luck, and I hope you feel it's worth the money you spend on it.
  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Originally posted by tkreep

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

     

    Lol, I knew someone would try to justify their way out of this... What about "vast majority"? I thought you ES-loving carebears were the "vast majority". haha. Yea ... 

    And P.S: The "neutral" people you're referring to, indicated that they'd be FINE with faction locks... not that they'd be FINE WITH them REMOVING faction locks. 

     

    ok than look at this poll with more total votes on a nother ES thread...erp derp

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/378180/page/1

    Oh, you mean the biased poll that uses specifc language in order to get you to agree with OPs stance? That one? Yeah, it's not really a great idea, in general, to use a forum poll as a counter to any argument (this applies to everyone attemping to use a poll to prove their position, not just you in this instance), and even less so when the poll is immediately recognized as biased on it's face.

    In that poll DAoC is either Flawless, or it's clumsy, bad, or abusive to the IP. Of the 4 options, the only impossible option to pick is flawless, since nothing is without flaw. Which leaves... ?

    It does make it seem like you have actual 'evidence', though, so I don't fault you for trying.

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973
    Originally posted by Sir7681
    I've said everyting I wanted to say, and I already know it doesn't make any difference, but I felt the need to voice my dislike for the way things were done.  I'd honestly say that the people interested are pretty much split down the middle on this issue, or pretty close to it.  What's been said about not buying the game if you're not happy with it, is absolutely true...and if this game didn't get the following it needed, and flopped, it wouldn't be the first, and it also won't be the last.  All I can say for sure is, it doesn't live up to MY expectations, and I won't be playing it.  For all those who choose to, good luck, and I hope you feel it's worth the money you spend on it.

    Best, most logical, dissenting post I've read. +10

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Originally posted by tkreep

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

     

    Lol, I knew someone would try to justify their way out of this... What about "vast majority"? I thought you ES-loving carebears were the "vast majority". haha. Yea ... 

    And P.S: The "neutral" people you're referring to, indicated that they'd be FINE with faction locks... not that they'd be FINE WITH them REMOVING faction locks. 

     

    ok than look at this poll with more total votes on a nother ES thread...erp derp

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/378180/page/1

    Oh, you mean the biased poll that uses specifc language in order to get you to agree with OPs stance? That one? Yeah, it's not really a great idea, in general, to use a forum poll as a counter to any argument (this applies to everyone attemping to use a poll to prove their position, not just you in this instance), and even less so when the poll is immediately recognized as biased on it's face.

    In that poll DAoC is either Flawless, or it's clumsy, bad, or abusive to the IP. Of the 4 options, the only impossible option to pick is flawless, since nothing is without flaw. Which leaves... ?

    It does make it seem like you have actual 'evidence', though, so I don't fault you for trying.

    He used a forum poll in the first place for his arguement a few post above all i did was counter it using his own method of arguement which was using the other poll. And before that I even stated that a poll on these forums is hardly accurate...but he instead just try to insult. Maybe you should read up on the rest of the post before u try to talk.

  • rygard49rygard49 Member UncommonPosts: 973
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Qallidexz
    Originally posted by tkreep

    And a poll with only 170 votes is hardly accurate considering this website has thousands of users and of them prolly thousands of ES fans that hasnt or will not even vote. You also have to consider the many ES fans of the console market that could potentially be customers too which a vast majority arent seeing this poll or even this website.  And your right about what you said the neutral side on the poll could care less either way so if you minus them the ones against faction lock wins by 1% so far.  And even if you counted the neutral side the ones against is almost 40% which is still a lot of people if scaled the number up to the amount of players the usual mmo would get as subs. For instance if you were to count 40% of 350k people, thats a whole lot of people against it if u do the math.  And businesses most likely aim for a lot more than 60% customer satisfaction.

     

    Lol, I knew someone would try to justify their way out of this... What about "vast majority"? I thought you ES-loving carebears were the "vast majority". haha. Yea ... 

    And P.S: The "neutral" people you're referring to, indicated that they'd be FINE with faction locks... not that they'd be FINE WITH them REMOVING faction locks. 

     

    ok than look at this poll with more total votes on a nother ES thread...erp derp

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/378180/page/1

    Oh, you mean the biased poll that uses specifc language in order to get you to agree with OPs stance? That one? Yeah, it's not really a great idea, in general, to use a forum poll as a counter to any argument (this applies to everyone attemping to use a poll to prove their position, not just you in this instance), and even less so when the poll is immediately recognized as biased on it's face.

    In that poll DAoC is either Flawless, or it's clumsy, bad, or abusive to the IP. Of the 4 options, the only impossible option to pick is flawless, since nothing is without flaw. Which leaves... ?

    It does make it seem like you have actual 'evidence', though, so I don't fault you for trying.

    He used a forum poll in the first place for his arguement a few post above all i did was counter it using his own method of arguement which was using the other poll.

    I know, that's why I inserted the parenthetical. It wasn't my intent single you out on that portion.

This discussion has been closed.