If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out. I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset. And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by Ginaz If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out. I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset. And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.
Dont let them get to you. There are different kinds of PvPers
There are the FFA PvPers, the actual ONLY hardcore PvPers because its PvP the moment you log in.
There are the part-time PvPers from games like UO/AC1/SWG style games where PvP can be anywhere when YOU want it to be there and they do it for FUN. This even includes those that rarely do it and suck, but still do it for FUN.
Then there are the themepark PvPers from games like DaoC, they do it for shineys and must do it a lot. They are like raiders and more often than not, wont do it unless they gain something from it and will only think of it as fun if they are zerging/steaming rolling.
Then there are the part-time themepark PvPers. they want a reward but dont care enough about it to do it often. More often than not will do it until it isnt fun anymore and then stop for a while.
Of the 4, you are near the top and should be proud of it. You dont need a carrot to PvP and im sure you dont need a developer to create faction pride for you either.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Ginaz If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out. I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset. And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.
Dont let them get to you. There are different kinds of PvPers
There are the FFA PvPers, the actual ONLY hardcore PvPers because its PvP the moment you log in.
There are the part-time PvPers from games like UO/AC1/SWG style games where PvP can be anywhere when YOU want it to be there and they do it for FUN. This even includes those that rarely do it and suck, but still do it for FUN.
Then there are the themepark PvPers from games like DaoC, they do it for shineys and must do it a lot. They are like raiders and more often than not, wont do it unless they gain something from it and will only think of it as fun if they are zerging/steaming rolling.
Then there are the part-time themepark PvPers. they want a reward but dont care enough about it to do it often. More often than not will do it until it isnt fun anymore and then stop for a while.
Of the 4, you are near the top and should be proud of it. You dont need a carrot to PvP and im sure you dont need a developer to create faction pride for you either.
Playing as a bounty hunter in swg was THE most fun I've had in any game, not just MMOs. The in game money earned from the missions was small and there was no other reward apart from the credits. What I enjoyed was coming up with new ways to kill my targets. Sometimes I would just bum rush them out in the wilderness. Other times I'd wait patiently for them in cities. I remember killing one guy by pretending to be a doctor and setting up outside a starport offering free buffs, with my "buffing" droid (aka bomb droid) next to me. My target took up my offer and before he knew what happened my bomb droid detonated and he was dead a few seconds afterwards. I got a few others by pretending to be a fellow jedi padawan (I had unlocked jedi on my BH and had the robes and everything) and earning their trust before I got them alone and killed them. Great times.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by Ginaz If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out. I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset. And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.
This thread needs to be shut down, is this honestly how a mmo is discussed, with half thruths, and speculaion.
The thread started misleading, and is a waste of space.
As with ANY mmo, you have a pvp path, if you're a pvp player, sorry we exist
But you can play the whole game without doing pvp I'm sure.
Originally posted by BigHatLogan MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
...
Close minded much?
I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it .
Originally posted by BigHatLogan Originally posted by kidas52How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP. Otherwise why not just make another single player game? Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends. MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Couldn't disagree more. PvP isn't the only thing to MMORPGs. It may be the only thing you like in them and if that is the case I can only guess that you are newer to MMOs than most or are young.
Don't get me wrong, I love competition, I love PvP but it is not the main focus of my game play. I wan't to meet people I don't know, create adventures and memories together. I love the idea of meeting people online that I may never physically see and dungeon dive and RP.
Idk maybe it's just me or maybe I'm just getting older but PvP lasts minutes while game friendships and memories of adventures last years.
In the end look at it this way, it does make more sense to have a PvE focused game than a PvP one when it comes down to a mmo version of Elder Scrolls. Because before this game was announced what gamer was wondering what RvR would be like in elder scrolls? But i bet there was lots of people thinking what it would be like if we could go into oblivion with friends or kill a dragon while raiding a bandit camp. And also open world PvP would have made a lot more sense than one map dedicated to RvR when it comes to PvP gameplay.
Originally posted by Rthuth434 as if rehashing DAoC needed explaining. it's what mythic people do.
Could be worse they could be rehashing wow like everybody else has been doing lately.
Who exactly is rehashing WoW? I would love to play a game copying WoW vanilla, absolutely everyone is doing PvP focused, with horribly easy raiding.
yea we know.
i m sicked about all those, commenting that wow raiding is easy. they just play lfr's and judge. they dont even bother to play a heroic mode. in most of cases they dont have the skill to do it so they just pass it and play lfr. they are the same persons that wait a raid to be nerfed with buffs in order to kill last boss.
if you think a raid is easy go with your friends/guild in hc mode when its time. not when you have 5000000000 ilvl more after some months. go when it launches with your current gear. thats the point thats the challenge.
just have a look right now how many guilds have killed and how many bosses in hc mode. now, not after some months that they will be overgeared again
btw i m casual anymore and i m raiding with lfr too. but i dont complain about difficulty. i know that if i want, the challenge is still there. hc mode awaits if i want to give it a try
'Two small forces clash, the sound of steel and whirl of blades echo throughout the pass as soldiers of the Ebon heart Pact and Aldmeri Dominium engage in another skirmish for the right to hold claim to Cyrodil.' Could be both a PvP and a raid scenario depending on the control of one of the factions. I don't deny the ease of which you can think PvP but flesh out the encounter add some reason or story behind it and it could just as easily become PvE content, with one side being controlled via AI.
Raiding does not have to involve one large monster vs a horde of players and can tie in to a war scenario just as well as mass PvP. People fail to see how raiding (multiple group content) could be linked into any of the elder scroll universe yet ignore the very fact that group conflict and wars form a huge part of TES lore which lends itself to both PvE and PvP scenarios.
Whether people like or hate either raiding or PvP shouldn't be a concern as both PvE and PvP can easily fit with the lore of the IP, and as I have said before I can see both being catered for (especially given information released thus far), as with any modern MMO I expect diversity in order to garner a larger audience and not alienate the IPs fanbase that is not into either PvP or PvE.
The thing is, 'raiding' doesn't necessarily mean 'multiple group content'. When people see the term 'raiding' they usually have a VERY specific idea in mind. For example, lets look at GW2 and Rift:
One has raiding, one doesn't. However, both have multiple forms of 'multiple group content'. GW2 has World PvP, Dynamic Events, and World Bosses. Rift, has Raids, World PvP, and Invasions. When people see the term 'raid' used in conjunction with an MMO, it always means organizing multiple groups to learn and complete scripted PvE content. It always means gear progression. It always means lockout timers.
Could Raiding eventually come to mean something else? Absolutely, and personally I hope it does. However, the general gamer mindset that currently exists doesn't allow it to. If it did, then many more games would have content that could be considered 'raids', but they don't.
Elder scrolls most definitely lends itself to multi-group content, world bosses, dynamic events, etc. It doesn't lend itself towards grinding dungeons on lockout timers for tiered loot. If you look at any elder scrolls game, they've never been about that. The games do have some pretty epic encounters & scenarios, but those would generally be concidered more 'large scale dynamic events', instead of traditional raids.
WoW and Rift both have a big following for PvE and PvP. That's why I play them both.
Exactly, why can't we have both.
I feel as if it's always bad players who QQ about pve dungeons vs pvp/RvRvR content. Bad players who know they wont be able to compete, so they just dont want it in the game, to prevent their fragile ego from being shattered because players dont react like npc's.
The thing is, you dont have to engage in any player vs player content! However, a large portion of ESO is RvRvR Have fun!
Pardon me but this is so freaking not an explination.... First off you can have a strong PVP and PVE content if you actually bother making teams that focus on them. Open world pvp is SHIT plain and simple there are no ifs ands or buts about it. The only way i've actually seen it done well is in Defiance where it is an opt in system with the shadow wars where you can drop in and out at your leisure. The problem with the setup of openish pvp in most games is that they are just open period. There is no real punishment for pk'ers that attack people much lower than them simply to troll so there is a large community that favors PVE content massively in the open world vs PVP content being open because of dickheads like this.
You know why RVRVR RVR and older Open PVP based worked well? Community. UO was open world but if you Pk'ed you became known as a dick and people would vastly not deal with you and often went out of their way to mess with you. Now adays its just trolling left and right.
Another player may not react the same way an NPC would but an NPC is never a trolling little dick that will consistantly follow you around and kill you while you are out doing some sort of queting. Go play an MMO with open world PVP and PVE content and come back to me when someone 30+ levels higher than you continuously stalks and kills you over and over and over again there is nothing you can "do" about it especially in these gear driven plethora of games that involve levels, skill levels etc. If it was straight down to skill most of these trolling ltitle turds would lose but they are the reason we can't have a good PVE + PVP split
Originally posted by BigHatLogan MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
...
Close minded much?
I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it .
Maybe you suck at pvp?
I love when you casuals talk about how easy raids are, yet at the same time you repeatedly demonstrate your inability to complete said 'predictable' encounters...
Originally posted by Rthuth434 as if rehashing DAoC needed explaining. it's what mythic people do.
Could be worse they could be rehashing wow like everybody else has been doing lately.
Who exactly is rehashing WoW? I would love to play a game copying WoW vanilla, absolutely everyone is doing PvP focused, with horribly easy raiding.
This is 100% true. People talk about wow clones all the time, but as you said no one has truly made a real attempt to clone wow's process to success. The success of WoW began back in 2004, not 2011. If you make an MMO with raiding on the equiv of LFR, and normal dungeons of WoW, then you are going to have a horrible game.
Originally posted by BigHatLogan MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
...
Close minded much?
I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it .
Maybe you suck at pvp?
I love when you casuals talk about how easy raids are, yet at the same time you repeatedly demonstrate your inability to complete said 'predictable' encounters...
Thats because they haven't taken the time to look up what to do or they're not in a guild that just lays it out for them. With a few general warnings and guidelines, yes, raiding is easy. Get over yourself.
Originally posted by BigHatLogan MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
...
Close minded much?
I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it .
Maybe you suck at pvp?
I love when you casuals talk about how easy raids are, yet at the same time you repeatedly demonstrate your inability to complete said 'predictable' encounters...
Thats because they haven't taken the time to look up what to do or they're not in a guild that just lays it out for them. With a few general warnings and guidelines, yes, raiding is easy. Get over yourself.
I have raided with top guilds, harcore casual guilds, and casual guilds. The difference is night and day from the top to the bottom. Its not a matter of just get out of x or y, but get out of x or y while doing a b and c.
I have easily doubled the dps of other members of my casual guild.
Maintianing a perfect prirotiy system while dodging all incoming damage takes an immense amount of skill, and most players aren't up to that sort of challenge. That's why only about 2% actually complete heroic dungeons when they are relevant. Sure any scrub can do them months after the xpac and they have been nerfed to oblivion, and you outgear them. I think you are confusing that with actual end game progression raiding.
Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP. Otherwise why not just make another single player game? Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends. MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Yeah because EQ and AC were not MMORPG's at all with little PvP. PvP does not make an MMORPG.
Yes, you can have a MMORPG without PVP. It just would be boring and pointless.
I'm sorry but FFXI was boring and pointless?
I think a better way to put it is PvE only games are repetitive and boring. Once you master the content, then what? You sit around waiting for the next expansion. Honestly, RvR in DAoC was never boring but killing the same Boss a few dozen times in any MMO dungeon sure can be.
That's totally how I feel about pop . constant pointless fighting the same area with no content at all doing the same thing over and over looking to beat the other team. After a few runs the chaos is boring and frustrating. In pve there is some progression and a better feeling of teamwork. People are far less prone to get pissy cause they don't like some thing and generally it is an enjoyable run. The progression gives you a sense of achievement and keeps you going.
For developers I am sure pvp is great far easier no Ai, no content, no progression, no nothing. Just some interesting maps and some objectives. Not sure why anyone would really want to play pvp in an mmo as it is inherently unbalanced. I preferred many xbox style pvp type games as they are balanced and more interesting.
For developers I am sure pvp is great far easier no Ai, no content, no progression, no nothing. Just some interesting maps and some objectives. Not sure why anyone would really want to play pvp in an mmo as it is inherently unbalanced. I preferred many xbox style pvp type games as they are balanced and more interesting.
I lol'd
Clearly you've never been in a guild that stomps on peoples virtual faces ;D
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP. Otherwise why not just make another single player game? Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends. MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Yeah maybe in your mind that's the case - but other people think and enjoy different things believe it or not. Make an Elder Scrolls Online game that involves an online community and economy, and PvE content that is similar to the singe player games just needing a group of players to complete instead of a single player and you will have pretty much every Elder Scrolls fan drooling. And that's a lot of players because they sure sell a lot of copies of their games.
I would venture to guess that less than 5% of fans of the series would have even the slightest issue with an mmo version that contained 0 PvP - actually I would gather they would welcome that idea much more than the RvR focus of this game.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 The common argument i see coming up here is wow players wanting TESO to be wow.
Really? The common argument I have seen is fans of the series wanting it to be similar and true to the series - which it isn't even close to being.
Pretty much this.
Open world exploration: gone, in place a convuluted system where you can visit the other faction territorities but not group with anyone from those factions, thus cutting you off from friends who play that faction
Play whatever race you want: gone, faction locked. say you and a friend want to play an Altmer and a Breton. well guess what? you're shit out of luck in PvE'ing together.
Basically the open endedness in playing whatever race/class you want as well as full world exploration is gone in TESO and sacraficed to make way for the three way PvP, which by the way, doesn't have a large enough community left to sustain an AAA MMO anymore, there is far too much competition from other MMO's.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 The common argument i see coming up here is wow players wanting TESO to be wow.
Really? The common argument I have seen is fans of the series wanting it to be similar and true to the series - which it isn't even close to being.
Pretty much this.
Open world exploration: gone, in place a convuluted system where you can visit the other faction territorities but not group with anyone from those factions, thus cutting you off from friends who play that faction
Play whatever race you want: gone, faction locked. say you and a friend want to play an Altmer and a Breton. well guess what? you're shit out of luck in PvE'ing together.
Basically the open endedness in playing whatever race/class you want as well as full world exploration is gone in TESO and sacraficed to make way for the three way PvP, which by the way, doesn't have a large enough community left to sustain an AAA MMO anymore, there is far too much competition from other MMO's.
So wait, what would be sustainable then? A PvE game? A game that's focused on dungeon crawling? FFA PvP with consequences half of gaming population cannot handle? Another instanced arena PvP focused game or a lackcluster 3-way PvP?
What you fail to comply with is the actual market size of the MMORPG genre, and how half of its potential is wasted by attempting to familiarize with the mechanics of previous titles. People want something new, they grave for something new. DAoC's model is still inexperienced by most of the population, and if done correctly, and offer satisfable end-game to all parties, except for those who refuse to PvP; and Mythic being Mythic, they also share the idea of "There is no real point going to play online if it ain't against players". AI is always superior in single-player - Co-op enviroment, it can never be done to a intelligent level on MMO world.
Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP. Otherwise why not just make another single player game? Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends. MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Exactly, they have made great pve games already and now they want to make an mmo. They can now target a whole new crowd with pvp, a community that is sad because recent games have not satisfied the pvp community. This is a great idea for them, doesn't mean they can't make another pve game for those fans...but this is very smart on their part.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Comments
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Dont let them get to you. There are different kinds of PvPers
There are the FFA PvPers, the actual ONLY hardcore PvPers because its PvP the moment you log in.
There are the part-time PvPers from games like UO/AC1/SWG style games where PvP can be anywhere when YOU want it to be there and they do it for FUN. This even includes those that rarely do it and suck, but still do it for FUN.
Then there are the themepark PvPers from games like DaoC, they do it for shineys and must do it a lot. They are like raiders and more often than not, wont do it unless they gain something from it and will only think of it as fun if they are zerging/steaming rolling.
Then there are the part-time themepark PvPers. they want a reward but dont care enough about it to do it often. More often than not will do it until it isnt fun anymore and then stop for a while.
Of the 4, you are near the top and should be proud of it. You dont need a carrot to PvP and im sure you dont need a developer to create faction pride for you either.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Playing as a bounty hunter in swg was THE most fun I've had in any game, not just MMOs. The in game money earned from the missions was small and there was no other reward apart from the credits. What I enjoyed was coming up with new ways to kill my targets. Sometimes I would just bum rush them out in the wilderness. Other times I'd wait patiently for them in cities. I remember killing one guy by pretending to be a doctor and setting up outside a starport offering free buffs, with my "buffing" droid (aka bomb droid) next to me. My target took up my offer and before he knew what happened my bomb droid detonated and he was dead a few seconds afterwards. I got a few others by pretending to be a fellow jedi padawan (I had unlocked jedi on my BH and had the robes and everything) and earning their trust before I got them alone and killed them. Great times.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Now, I'll say it too, you are wrong, you may do all three factions pve areas.
You'll already be at level cap when you finish your instance.
How is that not a insane amount of pve content?
This thread needs to be shut down, is this honestly how a mmo is discussed, with half thruths, and speculaion.
The thread started misleading, and is a waste of space.
As with ANY mmo, you have a pvp path, if you're a pvp player, sorry we exist
But you can play the whole game without doing pvp I'm sure.
I don't understand how you can prefer the predictable nature of raids to pvp, another opponent, acting unpredictably, providing an actual challenge, and the satisfaction of ganking noobs, yeah I said it
.
Maybe you suck at pvp?
There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP. Otherwise why not just make another single player game? Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends. MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Couldn't disagree more. PvP isn't the only thing to MMORPGs. It may be the only thing you like in them and if that is the case I can only guess that you are newer to MMOs than most or are young.
Don't get me wrong, I love competition, I love PvP but it is not the main focus of my game play. I wan't to meet people I don't know, create adventures and memories together. I love the idea of meeting people online that I may never physically see and dungeon dive and RP.
Idk maybe it's just me or maybe I'm just getting older but PvP lasts minutes while game friendships and memories of adventures last years.
Guys don't worry our pve endgame is going to consist of solo quests and most likely zerg events.
The sooner you realise that this game is made with pvp in mind, the less you will get dissapointed.
I personally prefer it this way,unless their pvp sucks ofc.
If they make Cryodiil meaningful then it will be great.
Basically if they DONT do what gw2 did, and instead TRY TO DO what daoc/ps1/swg accomplished
Realm pride is one of the biggest incentives to pvp.
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
yea we know.
i m sicked about all those, commenting that wow raiding is easy. they just play lfr's and judge. they dont even bother to play a heroic mode. in most of cases they dont have the skill to do it so they just pass it and play lfr. they are the same persons that wait a raid to be nerfed with buffs in order to kill last boss.
if you think a raid is easy go with your friends/guild in hc mode when its time. not when you have 5000000000 ilvl more after some months. go when it launches with your current gear. thats the point thats the challenge.
just have a look right now how many guilds have killed and how many bosses in hc mode. now, not after some months that they will be overgeared again
btw i m casual anymore and i m raiding with lfr too. but i dont complain about difficulty. i know that if i want, the challenge is still there. hc mode awaits if i want to give it a try
The thing is, 'raiding' doesn't necessarily mean 'multiple group content'. When people see the term 'raiding' they usually have a VERY specific idea in mind. For example, lets look at GW2 and Rift:
One has raiding, one doesn't. However, both have multiple forms of 'multiple group content'. GW2 has World PvP, Dynamic Events, and World Bosses. Rift, has Raids, World PvP, and Invasions. When people see the term 'raid' used in conjunction with an MMO, it always means organizing multiple groups to learn and complete scripted PvE content. It always means gear progression. It always means lockout timers.
Could Raiding eventually come to mean something else? Absolutely, and personally I hope it does. However, the general gamer mindset that currently exists doesn't allow it to. If it did, then many more games would have content that could be considered 'raids', but they don't.
Elder scrolls most definitely lends itself to multi-group content, world bosses, dynamic events, etc. It doesn't lend itself towards grinding dungeons on lockout timers for tiered loot. If you look at any elder scrolls game, they've never been about that. The games do have some pretty epic encounters & scenarios, but those would generally be concidered more 'large scale dynamic events', instead of traditional raids.
Pardon me but this is so freaking not an explination.... First off you can have a strong PVP and PVE content if you actually bother making teams that focus on them. Open world pvp is SHIT plain and simple there are no ifs ands or buts about it. The only way i've actually seen it done well is in Defiance where it is an opt in system with the shadow wars where you can drop in and out at your leisure. The problem with the setup of openish pvp in most games is that they are just open period. There is no real punishment for pk'ers that attack people much lower than them simply to troll so there is a large community that favors PVE content massively in the open world vs PVP content being open because of dickheads like this.
You know why RVRVR RVR and older Open PVP based worked well? Community. UO was open world but if you Pk'ed you became known as a dick and people would vastly not deal with you and often went out of their way to mess with you. Now adays its just trolling left and right.
Another player may not react the same way an NPC would but an NPC is never a trolling little dick that will consistantly follow you around and kill you while you are out doing some sort of queting. Go play an MMO with open world PVP and PVE content and come back to me when someone 30+ levels higher than you continuously stalks and kills you over and over and over again there is nothing you can "do" about it especially in these gear driven plethora of games that involve levels, skill levels etc. If it was straight down to skill most of these trolling ltitle turds would lose but they are the reason we can't have a good PVE + PVP split
I love when you casuals talk about how easy raids are, yet at the same time you repeatedly demonstrate your inability to complete said 'predictable' encounters...
This is 100% true. People talk about wow clones all the time, but as you said no one has truly made a real attempt to clone wow's process to success. The success of WoW began back in 2004, not 2011. If you make an MMO with raiding on the equiv of LFR, and normal dungeons of WoW, then you are going to have a horrible game.
Thats because they haven't taken the time to look up what to do or they're not in a guild that just lays it out for them. With a few general warnings and guidelines, yes, raiding is easy. Get over yourself.
I have raided with top guilds, harcore casual guilds, and casual guilds. The difference is night and day from the top to the bottom. Its not a matter of just get out of x or y, but get out of x or y while doing a b and c.
I have easily doubled the dps of other members of my casual guild.
Maintianing a perfect prirotiy system while dodging all incoming damage takes an immense amount of skill, and most players aren't up to that sort of challenge. That's why only about 2% actually complete heroic dungeons when they are relevant. Sure any scrub can do them months after the xpac and they have been nerfed to oblivion, and you outgear them. I think you are confusing that with actual end game progression raiding.
That's totally how I feel about pop . constant pointless fighting the same area with no content at all doing the same thing over and over looking to beat the other team. After a few runs the chaos is boring and frustrating. In pve there is some progression and a better feeling of teamwork. People are far less prone to get pissy cause they don't like some thing and generally it is an enjoyable run. The progression gives you a sense of achievement and keeps you going.
For developers I am sure pvp is great far easier no Ai, no content, no progression, no nothing. Just some interesting maps and some objectives. Not sure why anyone would really want to play pvp in an mmo as it is inherently unbalanced. I preferred many xbox style pvp type games as they are balanced and more interesting.
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Ethion
I lol'd
Clearly you've never been in a guild that stomps on peoples virtual faces ;D
I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.
Yeah maybe in your mind that's the case - but other people think and enjoy different things believe it or not. Make an Elder Scrolls Online game that involves an online community and economy, and PvE content that is similar to the singe player games just needing a group of players to complete instead of a single player and you will have pretty much every Elder Scrolls fan drooling. And that's a lot of players because they sure sell a lot of copies of their games.
I would venture to guess that less than 5% of fans of the series would have even the slightest issue with an mmo version that contained 0 PvP - actually I would gather they would welcome that idea much more than the RvR focus of this game.
Really? The common argument I have seen is fans of the series wanting it to be similar and true to the series - which it isn't even close to being.
Pretty much this.
Open world exploration: gone, in place a convuluted system where you can visit the other faction territorities but not group with anyone from those factions, thus cutting you off from friends who play that faction
Play whatever race you want: gone, faction locked. say you and a friend want to play an Altmer and a Breton. well guess what? you're shit out of luck in PvE'ing together.
Basically the open endedness in playing whatever race/class you want as well as full world exploration is gone in TESO and sacraficed to make way for the three way PvP, which by the way, doesn't have a large enough community left to sustain an AAA MMO anymore, there is far too much competition from other MMO's.
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So wait, what would be sustainable then? A PvE game? A game that's focused on dungeon crawling? FFA PvP with consequences half of gaming population cannot handle? Another instanced arena PvP focused game or a lackcluster 3-way PvP?
What you fail to comply with is the actual market size of the MMORPG genre, and how half of its potential is wasted by attempting to familiarize with the mechanics of previous titles. People want something new, they grave for something new. DAoC's model is still inexperienced by most of the population, and if done correctly, and offer satisfable end-game to all parties, except for those who refuse to PvP; and Mythic being Mythic, they also share the idea of "There is no real point going to play online if it ain't against players". AI is always superior in single-player - Co-op enviroment, it can never be done to a intelligent level on MMO world.
Exactly, they have made great pve games already and now they want to make an mmo. They can now target a whole new crowd with pvp, a community that is sad because recent games have not satisfied the pvp community. This is a great idea for them, doesn't mean they can't make another pve game for those fans...but this is very smart on their part.
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