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Archers?
Tumblebutz
Member UncommonPosts: 322
Not to read too much into it, but.... if you watch Andrew's video update for today (Thursday,) at about 6:55 he mentions "Archers on the keep wall..."
Is that implicit recognition that an Archer Class is in?!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Comments
It's fantasy.
It will have bows and arrows.
Classes are to be rock, paper, scissor as well so look to Daoc and other games who implemented this style and a lot can be revealed as to how things will work. Archers will be very specialized at what they do and will dominate some classes 1 on 1 while others dominate them. It all works out in the end at army level engagments.
You stay sassy!
I hope so, but given that they are only promising 5 classes per realm at launch (if the KS doesn't provide a little stretch goal money) I'd be surprised if more than one realm, if any, had them at launch. If they do include them, I pray they will use the mechanics that made them so fun when DAoC was young, and not just be another range class.
Lawt
Maybe the classes will be "open" so that it allows some flexabiity?
Where the "DPS" class can for example, choose:
1. To wear plate armour, medium, or light armour.
2. Use two handers, sword/shield, Bows and arrows, daggers, etc.
With each choice you make offering both logical advantages and disadvantages.
Plate armour offers more protection for exmaple, better for "front line" fighters an dpeople who want to get up and personal.
Light armour on the other hand is more agile and quiet, which allows people to sneak better or move faster in, thus if you want to play simialr to a scout or a "rogue" you'd prefer that maybe.
Then the same basic ideas for weapons.
So even if there are only 5 "classes" to pick, it still allows flexability, similiar to say, Path of Exile or such, where classes offer a starting point and allow players to "branch" off from therea nd develop their own unique styles of characters.
There are many ways it can be done, we really don't know much yet about the classes or how it's all going to work.
I too prefer tons of options and ways to define my character. I just don't see a totally open skill system though as it is entirely impossible to fit it into a rock/paper/scissor (RPS) model. The good news is that they plan on stats and tons of ways to take control of min-maxing your character ... just don't expect this to counter your main weaknesses within the model.
I think we all agree that the modern bulk of of the mmo playerbase is now used to or learned from the more recent crop of themepark style games. I'm not sure many truly understand RPS balancing. You have to come to the full realization that one class in particular will have the ability to beat you most of the time. So many games now concentrate massive time and effort ensuring all classes can beat every other class at least within the metrics. RPS isn't about that. The metrics will flat out not be in your favor against at least 1 other class type in each faction.
Hell they may even go so far as to not match class types. There were dramatic differences in playstyle between just the warriors in Daoc. No mirrors means you are unique. Your RPC matchups may not even align the same against the other 2 factions.
You stay sassy!
Vack
FF XIV - the single worse game to cross my hard drive, ever.
Good call. I bet everyone can use a bow, but their skill level can vary greatly based on training and armor limitations.
Nanulak
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
*points to Neverwinter*
No archers at launch, they may come later. Maybe.
One more reason for me not to care about Neverwinter.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I don't see any reason for there not to be any archers in the game. The design of the archer class is what most people are discussing. Should archers have stealth, and should they have powerful openers? The only reason I can see for not designing an archer that can be more similar to a caster is that it can be difficult to give abilities to arrows that spells have. Having stun/mezz/root arrows feels just weird compared to spells.
The other weaknesses of casters; cloth armor, low hitpoints, no stealth, can be incorprated into the class. There is no universal law saying that archers must have leather armor and decent melee.
I still hope archers make it into the game, and hopefully they have the tools to serve a purpose.
I can give you another 50! :P
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I actually had to get back on Uthgard just to play a real Archer, again. hehe!
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
My first real archer class was the Ranger in Daoc (well actually I did have a xbow guy in AC but is a skill based game and simplistic compared to dedicated class structures). Loved it until they nerfed it into nothingness prior to before me leaving the game. I tend to avoid archer classes as if hybrids are supported I often play them (got into the hybrid support classes prior to leaving Daoc too).
My two fav archer classes (as in ranged specialists) has been the Squig Herder from WAR and (even though people will hate on it here) the Gunslinger from Swtor. I have to admit the Gunslinger is amazingly well made and fun as hell. I've neither pledged yet or even know if I will play CU but I still hope it is made and really look forward to seeing their combat mechanics. To this day no other game has really had the style of play as Daoc. I'm not saying different is always good but variety in the mmo world is greatly needed.
You stay sassy!
I never got into GW2 so im kind of lost on the convo slightly. From what I get archers just had way too fluid combat(like Legolas up in the house) just mowing down people while keeping others snared/CC'd off himself. MJ wants the player not be able to tab target with a bow, or HAVE to have the chars body in the absolute right direction(AS you know in daoc an archer barely had to look at you, awkwardly shooting arrows from his side) to get the shot to hit. Going from DAoC to WoW hunters were just stupid easy. Really ruined it for me. Prob easiest class aside from lock.
As for me, I'm fine with how DAoC had it. I can see alot of problems arising from a FPS based archer experience in a fast paced MMO. Just make the hit rate/cap more realistic. I forget what DAoCs hit cap was, but on my r10 hunter I would easily hit 90% even at max range.. thats pretty bonkers to me. Lower dmg/force some meele, lower hit rate way down, give archers like one CC, and maybe short burst stealth.
I really liked DAoC's quiver draw/fire time. It dealt with some of the 'too fluid' archer feel. Atleast until ToA sped things up.
So, CU is not going too well in making the 2mil goal...and archers are not in by default (stretch goal). It's also not sure if a stealth class is in, but atleast it's mentioned.
What will you (other archer fans) do if on the last they it looks like archers are not in? I'm thinking to reduce the pledge if this happens, as archer and/or stealth is the only way I like to play this game beside crafting/building.
https://camelotunchained.wikispaces.com/Chasing+Mark+-+Daily+Q%26A
Around the middle of the page :
Q: Will there be a ranger class? [Leena's comment: This is a known stretch goal and I would expect that the answer is based on that]
MJ: There will definitely be archer like classes.
Stretch goal means if we get enough additional fund from KS they will be available at launch, if not they'll be part of an extension.
Also read somewhere he didn't want to just make archers into mages with bow.
I think he has really hurt the Kickstarter with the limited number of classes per realm and the clear reluctance to have an effective archer and/or other stealthers. There will be 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 caster, a crafter, and a hybrid or speed class. There is a stretch goal for an additional class which might or might not be an archer. Pet classes will not be in at all. It's really a half-assed system compared to what DAOC had at release. I'd rather have lots of classes even if they are not perfect at release than what he is doing. Also I completely hate the separate crafter class. What is that doing in an RvR game? Just make crafting a profession like in most other games.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
He said he didn't want to put something lame in the game, and so he wouldn't put stealth in unless it's great. Where is the problem? You wouldn't have played the archer anyway if it wasn't fun to play.
If you want it in the game, but their ideas are bad, then find a good one and throw it in the backers forum, then discuss with them and improve it. Or help improving somebody else's idea. I would be surprised if no one can come up with something good^^.
As long as you don't expect it to be overpowered you won't be disappointed.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
I think MJ mentioned that he sees balance issues with the archers since they are supposed to be long range with good mobility(and some camouflage type ability), essentially the scout type. I also think he mentioned they will be likely the 6th class, which would make them a stretchgoal or later update.
I liked the original DAoC archer classes, that's what I played as a scout and hunter (I never played hibbies, since I'm not a tree-hugger lol). I liked the target, draw, fire mechanic. Even if they had archers that couldn't stealth, it would still be fun. Some of the best times I ever had in any game was in DAoC raining arrows down on my enemies. I would group up with friends and call out targets, and we would "1 shot" people firing in silmutaneous fashion
Edit: and I'm not buying Neverwinter, just because there is no archer. I played pen and paper as an archer and that's all I ever wanted to play in dungeons and dragons
The more i think about it, the more the archer/stealther class is a must in CU.
Considering that the HT will be the basic classes at launch, the archer/stealther is basically part of the HT concept (warrior, mage healer, thief).
It HAS to be in game at launch !
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR