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What have they completed so far?
syntax42
Member UncommonPosts: 1,385
Previous kickstarter campaigns I considered backing have shown videos of their completed work in a near-alpha state. The games were playable, but all of the content had yet to be developed. What does CU have, other than a legendary lead game developer who has shared his dream for the game?
I can't justify pledging money to a bunch of promises with no substance. I appreciate those who did, because that means the game might be funded and I might get to see the finished product. I'm just not a fan of the kickstarter concept. To me, it is worse than paying to get in to a beta. Once you donate, there is no guarantee the game will turn into something you are interested in. At least with paying for beta access, you have the chance to cancel a pre-order if you feel the game is not worth paying for. I've never done it, but I want the option to be there, just in case.
Comments
It sounds like you already know full well what they have completed. It is mainly a design at this stage with a lot of concepts and concept art and some prototype graphics and network code. The company and its founders do have a track record, so it's not like this is being done by people who have never made an MMO before. But ultimately donating is a leap of faith and not for everyone.
Since you do have some interest in the game, it might be worth your while to donate even $25 if you can afford it. That gets you a digital copy of the game when it releases which will likely you save $10+ over the retail price, automatic invite to beta 3, 5 Founder Points to spend in the in game shop, and access to the Founders forum to give your input as the game is developed.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Shroud of the Avatar had actual alpha footage (or even pre-alpha) in the very first video posted. People gave Torment and enormous pass.
And really, I think the issue isn't just that there is nothing made, but it's also that what he has layed out is so vague that no one really know what his plans for specific things are going to be like.
For instance, his video about how combat might be a hybrid model probably made a lot of the backers already start wondering about what is going to happen with this game compared to what they envisioned based on what he wrote in his blogs. I was always under the impression that since he was going old school, that he would go old school with the combat and stay with the more traditional tab-tageting system. I know there are a lot of posters here that prefer that type of combat and it probably came as a surpise to many. How many other things are going to be like that?
I think he should be more specific about his design goals. When he talks about crafting, he says that they will build houses and keeps. Well, fine, but how are you going to make this work well in an MMORPG? Because if he doesn't know the answer to that question yet, then his ideas really are half-baked. And if he does know the answer to that question, then he should share it to get people excited.
What they have completed so far is that they have a fully functioning game studio with staff and software/hardware to get a product started. This is not Bob and Vinny’s, fund us and we will then spend the money to put together a team and functioning office to build you a game.
This is a groundbreaking opportunity. The community will be involved at early stages of the development of the game and they will be instrumental in creating the game they want to play. This will allow players to help mold the direction of the game and determine the final product. And I find this innovative and I fully want to jump in and help design the game.
This if just the opposite of the games that already have the product preset and can show you their game footage. These preset products only invite people in before release to find bugs and test their already conceptually complete product.
Nanulak
So, Mark is open about the approach and comes off vague. Others tell you nothing about specifics.......
Is there really any difference? Would you rather nothing be Sid so you have no questions or conflict?
Also, this is a very niche game, and one without a big publisher. One reason for doing the Kickstarter pre-development is to gauge interest and support for the concept. Obviously, they don't want to devote time and money to something people don't believe in.
But rest assured, it will fund and you can check it out in 2015
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
No, I would prefer specifics. I think a lot of people would. And I think it might help attract more people if he actually had them.
Point is you don't get specifics....everyone would prefer them. It is a game in development ......how can you get specifics when dynamics and synergy need to be established. They have vague ideas coupled with strict IDEALS, during development things fall into place and balance.
Are you saying that you believe he does not have some kind of a plan drawn up that details how all of these systems fit together and can be implemented in an MMORPG yet?
Have you actually been in a development beta? Companies have ideas and plans up the wazoo and throw them out 5 times during development. What i dont understand is why people want specific mechanics laid out to them when CSE has stated that the backers will be ahuge part in helping those be developed. They have siad backers will help us build our specific systems so if thats the case there is your answer.You think that you want a specific game pledge and get your voice heard, start a movement and leave your design concepts on the game.
I understand what you're saying. Things will change so what is the point in giving details only to disappoint people later.
But you see, he is proposing some pretty big ideas here. Crafters that build houses and keeps is a good example. While it sounds amazing and cool, it also sounds incredibly difficult to implement in a way that makes sense and works with everything else. Just having the idea doesn't give the idea value. I think there are big ideas about the game, that if he explained his thinking on them in more detail, he might be able to give more confidence to people about the project.
A legendary lead game developer who has shared his dream for the game...
Reminds me of when the Captain (Steve Rogers played by actor, Chris Evans) asked Iron Man: "Big man, in a suit of armour... take that away, what are you?"
Tony Stark: "Uh...genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist."
I have utmost faith in Mr. Jacob's vision. He's already done more for raising the bar in the mmoRPG industry than anyone else (he defined mmorpg warfare between actual nations, for God's sakes - everyone else is so lazy and uncreative they think everything is 5 races and 5 classes in a free for all zone).
/salute
Actually I have been in development and now do other things beyond media development but more database programming. Point to that is however that you usually have, at this point a thousand or so pages of your concept and design ideas, without it, your shooting in the breeze with no clear goals which equals a failed product that will happen everytime without organized production and almost reminds me how warhammer seemed to go. Or you could do it without such, extend development time for another 2 years guessing as you go and have something come out which again I think warhammer came to be. Personally I am with most on this, if you don't have a solid concept foundation it is obviously not thought out or written down.
However, it might get funded, enough people I know want a daoc two, however after reading blogs (as mentioned above) I have personally come to a conclusion that there is no true bible (as we say in the industry) that has the concepts in place and what the game will fully in tale. More like a binder full of ideas, that would be considered pre-concept stage. From what is said they are beyond this, I just don't see it thou with one post saying one thing and the next saying another. There is no true "vision" being shared.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
While DAoC started out going in the right direction, it ended up taking some wrong turns and in the end was pretty much abandoned in favor of WAR. All that under MJ's leadership.
And WAR itself..... an absoute travesty, also under MJ's leadership.
While RvR was a good idea, MJ also chose to abandon it in WAR which calls into question his judgement and commitment.
So what other industry shaping ideas did this "legendary" developer come up with?
While I'm tentatively interested in CU, and largely forgive MJ for WAR, I think some people are vastly overstating his accomplishments and are destined to be disappointed.
If the idea doesnt sell off to you, i dont quite see why some pixel clusters should turn you on to it.
But it is a kickstarter, and it seems to me that people confuse it with a per-order (and what comes with that, demos, videos, etc) and cant understand the project/philosophy of a ks.
if you dont like the idea, it is not for you, and one should move on.
If the money is the problem, then one should move on as well. It wont be cheaper after or if it it funds, and for some $ 25 is a small fortune.
if you prefer complete products before parting with those very hard earned $25+, then There are many released Mmo's and also F2P games.
as for what has been completed, well they have kicked off the kickstarter and awoken a couple of trolls as well it seems
This one is gonna be funded by the Trolls as well as the kickstarters, as the Trolls are gonna love a 2 year+ of trolling Even before it is released. Hehehe......
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Shroud of the Avatar had some actual working content to show but yes, Torment had just barely more to show than CU; in some areas, less, yet people had no problem pledging. This shows it does not always matter whether you can show some pre-release alpha footage or not.
Torment rode on the backs of Wasteland 2's success and its fans, and hey, power to it - use every advantage you have. Still, I find it funny whenever someone says, "Why pledge to something in the conceptual phase?" (I put it nicely).
1. That is precisely when a project truly needs Kickstarter - see the "starter" part?
2. I do not put much more faith in a project that shows footage or more media. It is not too difficult to put together something like this quite early on and have it reflect little of what gameplay will be like. It can be nice to make people pay attention, but it is no more a promise than ideas.
I judge a Kickstarter project on its ideas and the reputation and passion of the team behind it. CU is not going to have much to show other than ideas because, yes, it is very early in development. There is no game yet, just design concepts, art, and a plan. There is also a team led by two guys who actually have quality, commercially successful games shipped. That plays heavily into deciding whether to back. This is not someone like the Greed Monger guy who used to promote MMA fights and such, these are professional developers.
Anyway, everyone has their own criteria for what they need to see, read, and hear before making a pledge, and that's fine.
Torment audience dwarfs that of DAoC fans, CU supporters
Dunno. If all he has is ideas floating around and is expecting his Kickstarter supporters to help mold his vision then isn't he risking a repeat of what happened during his reign of DAoC? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I remember clearly that it was the players and the devs listening to the players that screwed up DAoC.
But what's truly disheartening is the decision to focus solely on PvP while short changing PvE players, especially when you throw in crafting and structure building features. I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not speaking of the PvE'ers who's bread and butter is raiding. WAR proved that having that kind of PvE is counter-productive if your game revolves around PvP. But it seems that unintentionally, the potential playerbase for CU that is all for PvPing are lumping PvE (non raiders) with PvE (raiders) and saying if you don't like it, leave.
So now we're at a point where I believe more clarification is needed. If the PvE aspects of CU is not going to revolve around supporting PvE raiders (something I fully support) and also will not support PvE warmongers (those that enjoy a more supportive role in PvP) then they have effectively alienated a huge portion of support for CU. I mean, yes, both kinds of PvE'ers need varied content to maintain their interest. But while PvE raiders desire content on the tailend of the leveling journey, PvE warmongers desire content during that journey to max level.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
A project which shows actual game footage at least proves they put work into it and created a core concept. The direction the game takes from there can be flexible or firm, but at least it has a solid foundation to build a game around.
Kickstarter is a business request for financing. I don't view it as anything beyond that. A business that invests in itself before asking for outside money has a lot better chances of succeeding than one that asks for outside money just to get started. Take City of Steam or Path of Exile for example. They nearly finished the game before asking for funding from the public. That means they funded the game through their own pockets, or a loan from a bank, or just lived on ramen noodles for a year before trying to squeeze money out of investors who have no idea what will happen to the product.
I want to see CU succeed. However, I'm not interested in participating in funding what is only an idea, according to the rest of the posts. I want to see a core game concept along with some actual work before I throw money at empty promises. I might donate if they are close to reaching their goal near the end of the kickstarter campaign. I'm not sure how much, though.