Originally posted by topographic DAoC killed DAoC, nothing else.
MJ even says WoW killed* DAoC.
It's more likely that DAoC experienced a wowification that players didn't like? like with stealthies and stuff?
*killed meaning ending upward trends
MJ also said that ToA pissed off his entire DAOC population.
many people here have already clarified for you that the ToA expansion was the last straw that broke the camel's back. WoW was merely the new ride.
edit: and most would agree the core population of DAOC would've remained if they weren't so angry at that forced PvE expansion. so, based on this common knowledge/logic, WoW itself didn't kill DAOC.
also, i don't know a single person in 4+ years of enjoying RvR combat who would've prefered PvE to RvR. once you made it to 50, you hardly stepped foot into the PvE zones unless you wanted to farm during downtime or acquire aesthetic drops. RvR only in CU isn't an issue at all. Don't see a problem, or why you're trying to make one.
Most of the people I played WoW with had never played an MMO before and everyone was loving the shit out of Tarren Mill while I personally felt like I was participating in some form of paralympic hand-ball match at which point I asked my self wheter my friends were retarded or something. No incentive what-so-ever, just back and forth zerging.
DAoC remains the king of PvP, if Camelot Unchained can live up to that then I'm all for it. Camelot Unchained will be PvP and crafting only for the record.
. Why was DAoC so good back then? the community was really good, people talked with each other. There was time to bond in keep defences/sieges etc. In DAoC the keeps mattered, the relic raids had been planned for weeks if not months(we were a small realm). When you lost you saw it, the way back was long and if you had been defending a keep you could see it. This sense of pride and the feeling of a true community was better than anything ive experienced after.
Yours,
Achelon of Furn
Enduring Effervescients / Hibernia / Prydwen / EU
yes you where small but damit you where still annoying as hell :-D
always poping up disturbing us when all we where doing is trying to open this walking tin can
how the hell do i hit a dam luri thats smaller than the head of my hammer odin dam you
tee hee :-p
oh guys sorry for disturbing te trolly ranting about wow but i dont see many peeps from my old surver so i had to say hi even if it is a bleedin hibby :-p
At least on my server Soutshore vs Tarren Mill was the worst PvP I've seen in an MMO. Despite there not really being that many players, the server just had no chance of handling it and the delay on activating abilities was so long the game was unplayable. Not just for the PvPers, mind, but for everyone in the area. There only way out really was the instanced PvP.
Sure, PVP in EQ and DAoC was fun, often times aggrevating, but my best experience ever for PVP was WoW Vanilla.
The setting just captured the moment, with Taren Mill vs. Southshore. Nothing was instanced with PVP and the reward was defending a town, making friends, and having a blast in the process.
CU will be different in that it is going back to DAoC mentality with RvR, which was interesting, but not all that great in my mind. GW2 was a mess with RvR .. ESO isn't looking much better. I guess CU is going to be instanced with its fights? Without PVE (as described) the world will be small for each realm? Without PVE, CU sounds more like a MOBA.
When WoW came out, DAoC tanked .. because of WoW. Thats not my words, thats from Mark Jacobs.
You give me too much credit. I listened to the guy who told me "Mark, I promise you ToA will not affect RvR, you have my word on that." and I've been paying for that ever since.
OTOH, you are right about the lack of advertisement but really, what killed it was WoW. SI sent our numbers up and it held, ToA sent our numbers up (less than SI and the bump didn't last as long) but it was a slow decline until WoW and then we lost 30% of our subs 3 months post WoW-launch. That was one of the main reasons we went with NF. We knew what was coming and we tried to come up with something different to excite the player base.
So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?
DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell. WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.
Hey listen just to let you know, Wow didn't kill off DOAC....all the insane unbalanced expansion packs did. Also I thought it was a mistake for Mythic to not work on a game like CU instead of developing Warhammer (Horrible). They should of been working on CU back then. I played DAOC from 2000-2005, after the expansions were out for awhile the population slowly decreased because of unbalance issues and just well bad changes really, people including myself wanted the old frontiers back. Mythic merged servers over and over again to compsensate. We knew it was slowly dying off, less and less players over time. I don't remember anyone mentioning Wow in game or the forums.
yes you where small but damit you where still annoying as hell :-D
always poping up disturbing us when all we where doing is trying to open this walking tin can
how the hell do i hit a dam luri thats smaller than the head of my hammer odin dam you
tee hee :-p
oh guys sorry for disturbing te trolly ranting about wow but i dont see many peeps from my old surver so i had to say hi even if it is a bleedin hibby :-p
HAH! I was playing the biggest Firbolg available :P Fighting alb zergs with 1 fg at emain was the best fun ever
I played a bloody Celtic Spear Hero, that thing never got love, never It was only nice against Skalds and meaby some caster-types that were 2-shotted
So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?
DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell. WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.
No, and they are not even trying. Jacobs himself said they are targetting a niche...and seeing as how they dont even want PvE, its a niche in a niche...and DaoC was already a small niche at that.
He already knows that pure PvP is a small market and seems more than willing to target a smaller chunck of that. Small focus = greater chance of meeting a goal of profit, however small it may be.
I am glad MJ is being up front about all that. Still people want to project things onto this game that just won't happen.
Also, IIRC TOA killed DOAC not wow.
There was a shift in loyalty, yes, if that is what you are getting at.
But WoW was a major factor. Jacobs acknowledges this. DAoC wasn't as good as WoW (vanilla), at that timeframe.
Later expansions of DAoC were targeting the WoW crowd to bring them back. Isn't that what pissed fans off? Be honest.
Sub numbers peaked after SI, held for a nice amount of time and then declined slowly. ToA brought back more subs (like XP packs have done for every MMO) but then WoW hit us for 30% when it came out+.
But no, I'm not sure why you would think CU will have any instances in it since I've said from day 1, no instances.
Comments
MJ also said that ToA pissed off his entire DAOC population.
many people here have already clarified for you that the ToA expansion was the last straw that broke the camel's back. WoW was merely the new ride.
edit: and most would agree the core population of DAOC would've remained if they weren't so angry at that forced PvE expansion. so, based on this common knowledge/logic, WoW itself didn't kill DAOC.
also, i don't know a single person in 4+ years of enjoying RvR combat who would've prefered PvE to RvR. once you made it to 50, you hardly stepped foot into the PvE zones unless you wanted to farm during downtime or acquire aesthetic drops. RvR only in CU isn't an issue at all. Don't see a problem, or why you're trying to make one.
Oh, MJ said it so it must be true.
I think Mr Jacobs is more a purveyor of spin than fact.
Most of the people I played WoW with had never played an MMO before and everyone was loving the shit out of Tarren Mill while I personally felt like I was participating in some form of paralympic hand-ball match at which point I asked my self wheter my friends were retarded or something. No incentive what-so-ever, just back and forth zerging.
DAoC remains the king of PvP, if Camelot Unchained can live up to that then I'm all for it. Camelot Unchained will be PvP and crafting only for the record.
yes you where small but damit you where still annoying as hell :-D
always poping up disturbing us when all we where doing is trying to open this walking tin can
how the hell do i hit a dam luri thats smaller than the head of my hammer odin dam you
tee hee :-p
oh guys sorry for disturbing te trolly ranting about wow but i dont see many peeps from my old surver so i had to say hi even if it is a bleedin hibby :-p
Tasaroca Troll ( I am not a buff bot damit) Shamy
Midgaurd /Prydwen / EU
Hey listen just to let you know, Wow didn't kill off DOAC....all the insane unbalanced expansion packs did. Also I thought it was a mistake for Mythic to not work on a game like CU instead of developing Warhammer (Horrible). They should of been working on CU back then. I played DAOC from 2000-2005, after the expansions were out for awhile the population slowly decreased because of unbalance issues and just well bad changes really, people including myself wanted the old frontiers back. Mythic merged servers over and over again to compsensate. We knew it was slowly dying off, less and less players over time. I don't remember anyone mentioning Wow in game or the forums.
HAH! I was playing the biggest Firbolg available :P Fighting alb zergs with 1 fg at emain was the best fun ever
I played a bloody Celtic Spear Hero, that thing never got love, never
It was only nice against Skalds and meaby some caster-types that were 2-shotted 
SI was my favorite expansion.