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IDK what this is, but it isn't D&D
codejack
Member Posts: 208
in Neverwinter
Is it just that WoW is getting so old that everyone is hoping that they will get to be the next big thing? Because it seems like they are trying too hard to appeal to everyone; make it simple, straightforward, easy.... and boring.
Guess what, guys? You aren't going to be the next WoW. You are going to be a niche game with a niche audience who are going to HATE what you are doing.
You will fail, and good riddance, but you will take the franchise with you, and that isn't fair to the fans.
Comments
What franchise would that be? Neverwinter does not have any connection to Neverwinter Nights whatsoever except that it's based in the forgotten realm.
Cryptic has even stated that NWN and NW aren't connected to eachother, other than the fact that it's based in Faerûn.
It uses the 4th edition rules, which has some WoW-like elements to it and is very different than AD&D and second edition. The 4/e rules were not all popular and wizards of the coast is currently working on a new edition of the rules. They are doing a pretty good job at destroying D&D all by themselves..
D&D died with the 3.5 edition rules. This thing may be a fun game, but it isn't D&D it's a ....
Doppelganger
This grayish humanoid creature seems almost unfinished, with a narrow head, gaunt limbs, and a sinister, noseless face.
Doppelganger CR 3
XP 800
N Medium monstrous humanoid (shapechanger)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +9
Defense
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+1 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 natural)
hp 26 (4d10+4)
Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +6
Immune charm, sleep
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +8 (1d8+4)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 18th)
At will—detect thoughts (DC 13)
Statistics
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 13
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 20
Feats Dodge, Great Fortitude
Skills Bluff +9 (+13 while using change shape ability), Diplomacy +4, Disguise +9 (+29 while using change shape ability), Perception +9, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +5; Racial Modifiers +4 Bluff, +4 Disguise
Languages Common
SQ change shape (alter self), mimicry, perfect copy
Ecology
Environment any
Organization solitary, pair, or gang (3–6)
Treasure NPC Gear
Special Abilities
Mimicry (Ex) A doppelganger is proficient in all weapons, armor, and shields. In addition, a doppelganger can use any spell trigger or spell completion item as if the spells were on its spell list. Its caster level is equal to its racial Hit Dice.
Perfect Copy (Su) When a doppelganger uses change shape, it can assume the appearance of specific individuals.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Yeah, there will never be a WoW-killer, and certainly not Neverwinter. While it does have a passing connection to D&D, it's been heavily mutated to fit their particular online stance.
Though that's a good thing to some: D&D rules have always been haphazard and murky. Slavishly following them is not always a great idea. No reason to continuously port the same wheezing rules to every different gaming form. While 4th Edition may have some serious problems, it was at least well organized, if tremendously slanted towards tactical miniatures play.
The main issue I see with Neverwinter is their lock down on character diversity. Though that may change over time.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
agreed i loved nwn and also enjoy this game and like said above Its an action rpg based on Forgotten Realms. If you can accept that you may find some enjoyment in the game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What is D&D? How do you define D&D? If you're talking about the rules, the characters, and the setting, then D&D is just another game like any other. (10 nerd points if you get the reference.)
D&D, to me at least, has always been a state of mind with a loose set of rules to guide an adventure of your own making. And thanks to the Foundry, Neverwinter is more D&D than any video game up until now.
in a MMO sense that is .. nwn had a very robust content creator as well but obviously wasn't a MMO
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm sure the game that codejack is working on in his head will be fantastic. Can't wait to see that one go live.
I don't think the niche audience is going to hate it. The mainstream may not flock to it, but the target audience will probably be mostly satisfied with it. It's a well built game that goes quite a ways towards giving people an MMO that they can build their own adventures in (Foundry) and has an interesting enough adaptation of DnD to draw from as well. It may not live up to codejack's high standards nor be anything close that that game he most certainly can make better than anyone else, but it should be pretty good for the people it is intended for.
It's hard to "fail" with free to play. They didn't spend SWTOR money to build this thing afterall.
You're welcome to your opinion, however negatively expressed. Personally, I loved the first beta and can't wait to play more Neverwinter. It's not perfect, the character graphics are less than amazing, but it's one of the very few MMO's that I enjoyed from the start simply because it plays quick and smooth; there are no lengthy tutorials and you don't have to wait 20 levels for the combat to speed up, you just log in and start exploring dungeons with friends.
I can understand how some people are a bit upset about the D&D aspect of the game, but the way I see it, a franchise that stays stale dies out. If I only thought of the awesome Warhammer40K universe as a strategy setting, I wouldn't enjoy the other spin-offs that star their characters and lore, for example.
Agreed.
The game is fun, and from what I can tell it's basically a follow-up to DDO (which is what I think the motivation for the game was). It's not the best game, it has it's flaws, but it's enjoyable enough. If they charge a sub, it probably won't do that well, but as a F2P game I think it'll have a decent following.
That said, the amount of nerdraging over this game is kind of absurd imho. I think I've seen more QQing over this game than even TESO. And most of it seems to be oriented around the game using a different ruleset than the person complaining wanted.
Ill probably pick the game up when it launches.
However, ive always felt like...something like D&D deserved to have one epic mmorpg with the best stuff D&D can offer, and it has a lot it can offer.
I have no idea why they keep releasing...what feels like side games. Dont get me wrong im sure this game is good, and a lot liked DDO.
I just feel this IP, being what it is, and given the fact that this is basically what all the other mmorpgs based their stuff off..i just feel that D&D has gotten shafted on the mmorpg scene. Not sure whos fault that is.
They need to make an epic D&D mmorpg, full of lore, with a good rule set everyone likes, complex and difficult. A thinking mans mmorpg.
This, this looks fun, but i feel D&D needs an epic mmorpg first then they can start releasing dungeon crawlers and side games.
Much will depend on how successful the Foundry is but I do not believe that a D&D MMO would actually be an epic MMO but more like a grand campaign setting with a plethera of adventure hooks all over the game world that Dungeon Masters could use to build their quests and campaigns off of and share with all players of the game. There is some very interesting potential with this game.
This is 4E neverwinter campaign settings for the most part. So I'm looking forward to everything from an good old fashioned dungeon crawl, well written murder mysteries, political intrigue stories and whatever else comes forth from the imaginations of creative DM's.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The Foundry is a great idea... ruined. You can make whatever adventure you like! As long as it is identical to everyone else's.
4th edition SUCKS. How much more needs to be said? Not that 2nd edition was anything to brag about, but each previous version was at least a recognizable improvement over its predecessor. 4th edition went backwards, and kind of off to the side. It is D&D with WoW mechanics. I guess I'm saying that I would prefer WoW with D&D mechanics, although please don't stretch that analogy too far!
DDO is awesome, but it's in the wrong world and developed by jerks. And they've borked the combat system so it's no fun anymore, but for 6 years, it was a D&D MMO. Oh, and they did rogues right!
NW is shaping up to be a bad WoW knock-off with some Forgotten Realms lore thrown at it.
And let me be absolutely clear: I was tremendously excited about this game. I've been playing D&D in every available form (PnP, the old board game, the Spellfire card game, almost every video game) for 30 years. This game just doesn't appeal to me, at all.
Ok, so you aren't going to play it. Ok, that's fine, but please don't go calling Neverwinter a bad game. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is bad. I don't like how The Secret World plays, but I recognize it as an awesome game. Please treat Neverwinter with the same respect.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has got one. It'd really be nice if folks who put forth arguments actually provided supporting evidence rather than backing assumptions with more assumptions. But this is the Internets afterall so it's probably asking too much for people to actually make sense.
The Foundry is not ruined. See I can make unsupported assumptions too.
4th Edition is fine but not everyone likes that a company buys an IP and wants to .. you know .. make it their own. What's interesting about this is that you can probably write Wizards of the Coast a big enough check and you can buy D&D from them and set all these wrongs right for everyone. So when will you fix this problem?
So DDO is awesome but the wrong setting, developed by jerks, borked, and not fun. Interesting.
Neverwinter is not even remotely a WoW knock-off. It you want to see what a clone looks like try SWTOR. Neverwinter is anything but a WoW knock-off. It's a fantasy MMO with dungeons and dragons and many of the monsters used in WoW find their roots in the D&D monster manuals but who is really knocking off who there? You sound like that guy who went to see John Carter and hated that it knocked off Star Wars.
For your sake I hope you find something you enjoy about Neverwinter when it goes live or at the very least I hope you find comfort in another game or I wish you success in making that perfect game you can imagine in your minds eye but noone else can seem to make for you.