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Just so people understand, there will be mobs.

MkilbrideMkilbride Member UncommonPosts: 643
in Camelot Unchained

It's been said before in topics, but I'm not sure people get it.

 

There are mobs. There will be animals, guards, monsters, and presumably World Bosses(MJ has said he doesn't feel right not putting Dragons in the game)

 

When they say no PvE, they mean no progressing PvE story..RvR is the story, you're in a War. He means no leveling off NPC's and no loot drops / loot from quests.

 

But yes, there will be digital mobs for you to around killing. There is a misconception going around that there are only players, and it's MOBA like or something. It's not. It's your standard, large-scale MMO world.  Just mainly focusing on PVP / RVR progression.

 

MJ has confused alot of people by saying no PvE, making people think this is some kind of Instanced-based game like Warband or something.

 

 

Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Comments

  • LokbergLokberg Member Posts: 315

    Well there will be loot drops in the sence of meat leather from animals amd i suspect coin from humanoids npc guards and probabely players to ( lets face it there will most likely be more players around to kill since that is the gsme) the coin got to come from somewere.

    the resources crafters need to make stuff and the coin pvpers need to biy said stuff and ofcourse when the crafter got enough coin and to few friends he will probabely hire a bunch of player guards to take him gathering more materials.

    If the crafter is unlucky and the guards lucky they will earn even more coin protecting him from other players :)

     

    edit corrected auto corrected words due ipad problem.

  • KarraptathidKarraptathid Member Posts: 78

    I think MJ ment that there will be no PVE in the sense of there is not going to be gear dropped or XP/RP earned from killing NPCs/mobs. Mundane things like materials and gold, I'm sure there going to be dropped as it going to have to be apart of the economy system.  

    OTOH, I'm willing to bet that during major RVR battles, the "Chaos" effect will probably include dragons coming in for a visit just to really throw things off.  With the smell of massive amount of fresh cut/burnt meat drifting the air, how could a dragon resist?  Probably timed to be in the middle of the TDD's AJing, dragon(s) come flop down in the middle of the keep ready for a buffet. 

    Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
    Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever

  • SpeelySpeely Member CommonPosts: 861

    While I understand that there will obviously be SOME PvE element in place at launch, be it ingredient drops or guards or some conbination of the two, I think the amount of this content is going to depend upon stretch goals and general funding.

    Having said that, I think this game will fund. Scratch that: I NEED to believe this game will fund. Given that, I don't see it funding for an extra two mil. In light of this probability, I don't see a TON of PvE content, in whatever context it is implemented, being available at launch.

    In the future? Sure. But i think CSE is banking on an engaging enough RvR game that people won't even notice that there is no PvE for a while. I mean.... that's the idea, right? Aren't we here to pwn people we can emote to?

    Side note: adding random PvE events like goblin swarms or dragon attacks call for far less resources than scripted events in massive amounts. Hopefully if this KS gets funded, these will be the first iterations of PvE we see, both because they can tie into RvR seamlessly and simultaneously add much less time to development.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  • PRX_sklurbPRX_sklurb Member Posts: 167
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    There are mobs. 

    Dang mafia is everywhere.

    CLICK: »»» http://CamelotUnchained.net «««

    image

  • MehugeMehuge Member UncommonPosts: 24

    There will be

    NPC guards

    NPC merchants

    NPC wildlife

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Originally posted by Mehuge

    There will be

    NPC guards

    NPC merchants

    NPC wildlife

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

    I really don't see us skinning humans for leather

  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by Mehuge

    There will be

    NPC guards

    NPC merchants

    NPC wildlife

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

    Aren't we mr pedantic today?

    PvE progression, as you well know but are trying to distract from, is killing mobs for direct XP, doing quests killing mobs for xp, and killing mobs for phat lewtz to trick out your toon in their full suit of +864346 Legendary Dragon Armor of leetness.

    Gathering is gathering, whether skins from animals or minerals from rocks. 

     

  • XirrinXirrin Member Posts: 22

    I don't have the source in front of me at the moment, but I'm fairly certain MJ said that PvE mobs will not drop anything at all. The way it should be for a game that has no PvE incentives and focuses entirely on RvR. At the same time, I can see Dragons being a single exception for this rule, but time will tell.

  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by belatucadros
    Originally posted by Mehuge

    There will be

    NPC guards

    NPC merchants

    NPC wildlife

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

    I really don't see us skinning humans for leather

    If wishing made it so...

  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,813
    Originally posted by Mehuge

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

    killing wildlife gives you the materials to work on crafting, bit that's not PvE in the traditional sense of the word. Otherwise using the services of any type of NPC mercant would also be considered PvE, but it's not.

    MJ has been pretty explicit when it comes to what he means by "no PvE".

  • supergfunksupergfunk Member UncommonPosts: 95
    Originally posted by Mehuge

    There will be

    NPC guards

    NPC merchants

    NPC wildlife

    Not sure how killing wildlife for resources so you can level your crafting fits in with the no progression via PvE - that sounds very much like progression via PvE to me.

    Well, technically you would be progressing by crafting so the skinning etc would be the precursor to that...but you could say crafting is PvE but in CU it will be mostly to contribute to tri-realm.

     

    image

  • LokbergLokberg Member Posts: 315
    Originally posted by Xirrin

    I don't have the source in front of me at the moment, but I'm fairly certain MJ said that PvE mobs will not drop anything at all. The way it should be for a game that has no PvE incentives and focuses entirely on RvR. At the same time, I can see Dragons being a single exception for this rule, but time will tell.

    I do belive he said that but it can be read as

    A no item drop like weapons armor or accessories ( probabely spelled that one wrong but you get my point? )

    B no item drops at all.

    considering this is a crafting game aswell imo it would be A that he means.

     

  • TheJodaTheJoda Member UncommonPosts: 605
    ...wow a mmo with mobs, what a interesting concept. I do not understand the OP topic here. Was it said cu wouldn't have npcs?

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Member Posts: 423
    Get back to me in a few years when this is a game in actual development. 
  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by TheJoda
    ...wow a mmo with mobs, what a interesting concept. I do not understand the OP topic here. Was it said cu wouldn't have npcs?

    Some people have asserted that because it has been stated that there is no PvE progression in CU, that there are no NPCs.  That is what they were asking about.

  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    Get back to me in a few years when this is a game in actual development. 

    Will do.  image

  • XirrinXirrin Member Posts: 22
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    Originally posted by Xirrin

    I don't have the source in front of me at the moment, but I'm fairly certain MJ said that PvE mobs will not drop anything at all. The way it should be for a game that has no PvE incentives and focuses entirely on RvR. At the same time, I can see Dragons being a single exception for this rule, but time will tell.

    I do belive he said that but it can be read as

    A no item drop like weapons armor or accessories ( probabely spelled that one wrong but you get my point? )

    B no item drops at all.

    considering this is a crafting game aswell imo it would be A that he means.

     

    if we look at one of his recent interviews (http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/04/11/interview-mark-jacobs-shares-the-vision-behind-camelot-unchained/)  MJ states "In terms of crafting, it is how to have a totally player-driven economy without relying on MMO tropes such as token drops, NPC drops, and the wide receiver who drops the winning touchdown pass in a key game."

    Additionally if NPC guards dropped items required for crafting then you're left with roaming groups of crafters rushing keeps to kill the guards just to get gathering materials. It creates a super weird dynamic.

    Now I'm not saying one way or another, but I think all sings at this time point pretty strongly to taking his comments literally in that there will be no NPC drops.

    Later in the article he again says, "For crafting, it means that our crafters have the chance to truly craft an economy all on their own, without worrying about drops, tokens, etc"

  • HjamnrHjamnr Member Posts: 163
    Originally posted by Xirrin
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    Originally posted by Xirrin

    I don't have the source in front of me at the moment, but I'm fairly certain MJ said that PvE mobs will not drop anything at all. The way it should be for a game that has no PvE incentives and focuses entirely on RvR. At the same time, I can see Dragons being a single exception for this rule, but time will tell.

    I do belive he said that but it can be read as

    A no item drop like weapons armor or accessories ( probabely spelled that one wrong but you get my point? )

    B no item drops at all.

    considering this is a crafting game aswell imo it would be A that he means.

     

    if we look at one of his recent interviews (http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/04/11/interview-mark-jacobs-shares-the-vision-behind-camelot-unchained/)  MJ states "In terms of crafting, it is how to have a totally player-driven economy without relying on MMO tropes such as token drops, NPC drops, and the wide receiver who drops the winning touchdown pass in a key game."

    Additionally if NPC guards dropped items required for crafting then you're left with roaming groups of crafters rushing keeps to kill the guards just to get gathering materials. It creates a super weird dynamic.

    Now I'm not saying one way or another, but I think all sings at this time point pretty strongly to taking his comments literally in that there will be no NPC drops.

    In a traditional sense, I agree.  It is only logical, though, that after you kill an animal you will be able to skin it.   Otherwise, where would one aquire leather?

  • TuktzTuktz Member Posts: 299

    Yeah, I've seen a lot of "I'm not funding because there's no PVE". That's an interesting stance to take, because why would you base your make or break on a pvp/rvr game on its pve? Makes no sense. There are a dozen or so high quality MMO's already out on the market that try to cater to every playstyle (but don't really do one specifically that great). All those mmos kind of hit the genre with a broad paint brush stroke.

     

    CU is going to target it on what a niche likes, and do that part really really well. They don't have to try to balance pve around pvp/rvr, and likewise. There's no scale that tips one way or the other.

     

    Also PVE requires a lot more money, a lot bigger playerbase, etc.. etc.. because players devour that content faster than devs can make it. With a game like like CU, it will be a giant playground, and especially with the sandboxy elements of crafting/building/housing, a lot of the content after release will be more player generated. The guilds/alliances/towns/social structure/etc...

     

    Statements like the above really make it seem like the person who said it doesn't get the point.... Besides they're kind of wrong too, depending on your definition of PVE.

    There will be monsters

    There will be world bosses (dragons)

    There will be critters

    There will be farm animals

    There will be wildlife

    There will be townsfolk

    There will be guards

    There will be merchants

     

    It's just that none of these will give XP, or character progression, or loot. There will be other reasons to kill them, which probably haven't exactly been hammered out yet. But some ideas are animals for skinning, humannoids for scavenging  (like in WAR), mobs may be guarding crafts mats like mineral veins, I doubt mobs will directly drop crafting mats, but who knows.

    Also I have a feeling some mobs may be guarding strategic things, especially the NPC realm guards.

    Also towns/cities will be full of life (guards/townsfolk/merchants/etc...)

     

    So people need to understand all that before making broad sweeping statements ,because they aren't accurate, and we don't quite know the full extent yet of how it will all get implemented.

     

    All we do know is no pve character progression or loot drops. That leaves a lot of possibilities on the table.

     

    image
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  • ForumPvPForumPvP Member Posts: 871
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    So people need to understand all that before making broad sweeping statements ,because they aren't accurate, and we don't quite know the full extent yet of how it will all get implemented.

     

    All we do know is no pve character progression or loot drops. That leaves a lot of possibilities on the table.

     

    They should write that with big letters on their Kickstarter page.

     

    Let's internet

  • EdanyEdany Member UncommonPosts: 179
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    Yeah, I've seen a lot of "I'm not funding because there's no PVE". That's an interesting stance to take, because why would you base your make or break on a pvp/rvr game on its pve? Makes no sense. There are a dozen or so high quality MMO's already out on the market that try to cater to every playstyle (but don't really do one specifically that great). All those mmos kind of hit the genre with a broad paint brush stroke.

     

    CU is going to target it on what a niche likes, and do that part really really well. They don't have to try to balance pve around pvp/rvr, and likewise. There's no scale that tips one way or the other.

     

    Also PVE requires a lot more money, a lot bigger playerbase, etc.. etc.. because players devour that content faster than devs can make it. With a game like like CU, it will be a giant playground, and especially with the sandboxy elements of crafting/building/housing, a lot of the content after release will be more player generated. The guilds/alliances/towns/social structure/etc...

     

    Statements like the above really make it seem like the person who said it doesn't get the point.... Besides they're kind of wrong too, depending on your definition of PVE.

    There will be monsters

    There will be world bosses (dragons)

    There will be critters

    There will be farm animals

    There will be wildlife

    There will be townsfolk

    There will be guards

    There will be merchants

     

    It's just that none of these will give XP, or character progression, or loot. There will be other reasons to kill them, which probably haven't exactly been hammered out yet. But some ideas are animals for skinning, humannoids for scavenging  (like in WAR), mobs may be guarding crafts mats like mineral veins, I doubt mobs will directly drop crafting mats, but who knows.

    Also I have a feeling some mobs may be guarding strategic things, especially the NPC realm guards.

    Also towns/cities will be full of life (guards/townsfolk/merchants/etc...)

     

    So people need to understand all that before making broad sweeping statements ,because they aren't accurate, and we don't quite know the full extent yet of how it will all get implemented.

     

    All we do know is no pve character progression or loot drops. That leaves a lot of possibilities on the table.

     

    I think the people that say this are the people that enjoy large-scale PvE raiding for gear / tokens, etc. They want big scripted events that take teamwork and group effort to figure out, and then they want to farm it for a while to get their shiny gear that they never do anything with other than to beat on the next encounter.

    I personally abhor dugeon farming and scripted PvE encounters, but a large majority of people do enjoy it. So when they hear no PvE progression they run for the hills. This makes me only a tiny bit sad as I enjoy slaughtering them on the battlefield very much when they step out onto it, but that is also what makes this a niche game that caters to players like myself.

    To each their own =)

  • PRX_sklurbPRX_sklurb Member Posts: 167
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    He mentioned thinking about raising livestock, which would be epic, especially if you can steal them!

    "The zerg is coming, gather the flock and head to the city!"

    Just like war used to be.

    Shepherd class!

    CLICK: »»» http://CamelotUnchained.net «««

    image

  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,282
    Just leave dragons, DF, and all other high end PvE out of the game entirely. If there are no epic mobs, there's no chance the devs will cave to whiners and add loot better than anything else in the game that drops off of them. Once you break FP #2 ( http://camelotunchained.com/en/foundational-principle-2-rvr-isnt-the-end-game-its-the-only-game/ ) it's a short quick slide down the slippery slope to the kind of PvE content that ruined DAOC for many players.

    DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    It's been said before in topics, but I'm not sure people get it.

     

    There are mobs. There will be animals, guards, monsters, and presumably World Bosses(MJ has said he doesn't feel right not putting Dragons in the game)

     

    When they say no PvE, they mean no progressing PvE story..RvR is the story, you're in a War. He means no leveling off NPC's and no loot drops / loot from quests.

     

    But yes, there will be digital mobs for you to around killing. There is a misconception going around that there are only players, and it's MOBA like or something. It's not. It's your standard, large-scale MMO world.  Just mainly focusing on PVP / RVR progression.

     

    MJ has confused alot of people by saying no PvE, making people think this is some kind of Instanced-based game like Warband or something.

     

     

     Thanks for the information.

    If there are mobs to kill then there IS PVE no matter what MJ says.  The whole theres nothing to do but kill players and craft with reasource you got from killing other players/taking location probably drove off more potential players then anything. MJ sure does have a nack for making things needlessly confusing.

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Member UncommonPosts: 643

    Yeah, I guess some people just didn't understand. MJ has been trying to clear it up.

     

    There's no way you can make a MMO sized world and populate it with ONLY players.

     

    Also, at anyone who said "there will be merchants" you're right, there are no merchants.

     

    NPC guards, yes, maybe Citizens, but not merchants.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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