Wait...the argument is that 40 minuet raids are long?
I saw this and though "oh wow they significantly shortend raids in this game"
I mean most raids...and i mean real raids, you need to break up over a few days to clear...unless your in a crazy hardcore guild that will clear a raid in 12 hours at once.
40min raids? Sure, why not...its not going to cause me to have to cancel my morning the next day due to being up all night...and those types of raids...well they just are not as fun these days as they use to be.
I do like the idea of scaling based on members, though i know that someone will find the easy sweet spot and everyone will end up raiding with the exact memeber count and composition that was discoverd to be the easiest.
BTW i like hard raids. Easy raids are not even worth the time imo..
I have zero interest in 40 man raids and it's a huge turn off for me, but hey I'll acquiesce that it does seem a large majority of people do want that. I would be interested to know how many of those have actual experience in the hassle associated with it as opposed to it just sounding cool on paper. But hey, as long as there is quality other stuff for me to do like they talk about for solo players I'll be happy.
If we have a solo alternative to raiding then it would be ok as long as it's not required grouping to progress. Too used of instanced matching and lfr, lfd etc. But we used to do it back in the day but these days we're all lazier.
The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance. But I'm a raider at heart, so I'm really looking forward to gifting you all with the most enjoyable wipes I can manage!
Best quote And I say ... bring it on!!!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
I want raids that addapt difficulty based on the numbers of players... Have 40 men, raid with 40, have only 12 raid with 12, have 98, raid with 98... Scaling difficulty is the future...
how to differentiate, well offer a raid in 5 tastes like easy, medium , hard, extreme hard and nightmare...
Limmiting content based on player numbers is old time...
On top of that bring back open world bosses and raids like we remember from EQ, the more differentation in endgame, the better for everyone.
This is one thing I like and hate about Defiance. Monsters scale depending on how many people are in the area. If there's 100 people, mobs become extremely hard to kill...however if you have a bunch of people doing nothing, it makes it near impossible to do anything lol.
The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance. But I'm a raider at heart, so I'm really looking forward to gifting you all with the most enjoyable wipes I can manage!
Best quote And I say ... bring it on!!!
ROFL love that quote.
I never really raided, could not really stand the guild drama to be honest.. But this will be my first MMO were I just put up with it, I really want to test myself in some raids!
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Not speaking from a recreational perspective regarding my WoW-experience, but the more people are involved, the more chaotic and the more fun it is ofc smaller raids will be available aswell, but just for the sake of choice - bring it .
Raiding is a bunch of garbage, why waste time relying on someone ELSE to say heal or tank or dps and gain or drop aggro! Oh no I did it wrong sorry guys there goes 30 mins lets wipe and try again! So fun. How about not, having to rely on someone thats not myself in a game sucks.
ill do any time of pve content that requires many people. Im not really fond of battles that should be epic and all we have is a small group of 10 people smacking 1 boss.
i would definitely de interested in a 40+ men raid if the battle is actually different from what we have been seeing for years. (alywas a big dungeon separated by stages with 1 boss at the end of each stage).
Why not have a big raid (40+ men) with a few boss battles at the same time? you encounter a boss and at some point he is losing and call the other bosses to its aid (not just random crappy adds) that way you need more people, more strategy since each boss has different combat tactics, and taht way avoid having one boss with bagillion health points making it a boring, long, teddious fight. And make each encounter as varied as possible so it doesnt feel like grinding the same runs over and over.
I want raids that addapt difficulty based on the numbers of players... Have 40 men, raid with 40, have only 12 raid with 12, have 98, raid with 98... Scaling difficulty is the future...
how to differentiate, well offer a raid in 5 tastes like easy, medium , hard, extreme hard and nightmare...
Limmiting content based on player numbers is old time...
On top of that bring back open world bosses and raids like we remember from EQ, the more differentation in endgame, the better for everyone.
I would be completely fine with this as long as these "raids" didnt drop the best loot. As long as the best Loot can be aquired from many different angles then I am fine with raiding.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It is not the time length per se thaty worries me becuase msot games have longerRaids than that,example FFXI Pandemonium Warden opriginally coiuld take 2 days to beat.
What worries me is WHO is making the claim of 40 minutes?If you can predict the time that clsoe,it tells me there is no versatility in the Raid fight.
Is this 40 minutes based on the developer knowing what is the EXACT best setup and if the battle is executed 100% perfect?
personally i am not a fan of Raids ,period,i prefer all content to be kept reasonable in small groups of 3-6 players.
Raids are actually imo a joke in EVERY game,they involve mechancs to offset more dps and usually involve the Boss being immune to all useful abilities.Taht is why is works MUCH better in a small group because yo uwill never have a massive amount of zerg dps,so it allows for you and the Boss AI to be active and reactive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The devil is in the details and we will have to wait and see until probably release to see how the final system plays out. It's safe to assume that things will change a lot in beta once people start pounding on this content.
I do have a few concerns and most of them are touched on in the What is Wildstar: Raids blog if just high level. At least it seems like they understand the issues.
1. Gear progressioin. It's all fine and dandy to say your going to options for solo and small group endgame but if you than turn around and gate the best gear in raids you just made all the content worthless. If you raid there is nothing in the solo and small group content worth doing because the gear is junk. I don't know if the answer is to specalize gear by content (buffs and procs that work best at the content it's earned in), spread best in class gear accross content by slot or something else but it's a huge issue with raid focused games IMO.
2. The need for a specific group makeup. I can't tell you the number of times I have see our EQ2 raid end up doing lower tier content because we didn't have the right mix of classes on. You can hobble though if you have the next tier gear on but you can't really push the boundries without a very specific makeup. I appreciate the flexability being in a less hard core raiding guild offers me when I'm taveling for work but It's fustrating that your options as a guild is either accept doing lower level content some of the times or try and kick anyone who can't be there most of the time. The other end of this however is trivalize raids to the point where any random group of people can beat them and than no one cares about them.
3. Repeatative raiding. Yea the first time you beat a boss is fun. The 50th time however is just old. Hopefully they can make the idea of dyanmic content work but I am doubtfull they will be able to add enough difference and keep the encounter within the difficultly range they are looking for.
It is not the time length per se thaty worries me becuase msot games have longerRaids than that,example FFXI Pandemonium Warden opriginally coiuld take 2 days to beat.
What worries me is WHO is making the claim of 40 minutes?If you can predict the time that clsoe,it tells me there is no versatility in the Raid fight.
Is this 40 minutes based on the developer knowing what is the EXACT best setup and if the battle is executed 100% perfect?
personally i am not a fan of Raids ,period,i prefer all content to be kept reasonable in small groups of 3-6 players.
Raids are actually imo a joke in EVERY game,they involve mechancs to offset more dps and usually involve the Boss being immune to all useful abilities.Taht is why is works MUCH better in a small group because yo uwill never have a massive amount of zerg dps,so it allows for you and the Boss AI to be active and reactive.
Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
my question to you is what the hell is the difference if its instanced or a open world dungeon? you still need to gather 40 people regardless.
the only difference is, if it were instanced, no one gets fucked cause they didn't get their raid together in time or didnt get a chance to join the raid that formed already and is fighting it.
Raids should be moving forward and evolving from some static number requirement. They should scale based on members present. I'm fine with a minimum number required, since anything below 10 i don't consider a raid, but there shouldn't be a max number.
Nothing kills guilds more than not having enough online to raid on a particular night or having people sit out. Scaling raids would alleviate many issues associated with raiding.
I understand the technical difficulties this would bring about, but it's time for someone to step up and make it happen.
No.... I love raiding mind you but theres a few major issues.
1.) People: Getting the numbers can suck, having to need 40 makes it suck even more.
2.) PC limitations: MMos are about allowing the most amount of people play together. Having 40 mans means your going to need things running a way that allows it to happen from both graphics ends and visuals. This can mean that mechanics could be toned back to prevent those issues from effecting the progress, trivializing the difficulty of the content.
3.) Difficulty: Just without the limitations, content involving more people often makes it harder to do difficulty. It can cause stuff to be made "easy" for an encounter. More people means more rooms for slip ups, making the experience possibly easier. Its not of course a 'for sure' thing but you need a bit more wigglie room with more people being involved.
I really don't get what all the fuss is over raiding. Nearly every MMO has had raiding. We're finally getting a few without, and you'd think the world was about to end.
Can raids be fun? Absolutely.
However, it's been discussed to death the problems with raiding. Getting 40+ skilled players, hoping that they all are fun to group with, or at least not annoying / drama queens, and then hoping that they all fit into the same schedule... it's just not practical anymore. People live different lives, and there are far more options game-wise than ever before. People tend to play a lot of different games now, instead of sticking to only 1 or a few.
Personally, the majority of raids i don't think were all that hard. The most problematic part wasn't the content, but the players. I'm also not a fan of gear grinds, and that's what every single raid has amounted to thus far.
It would be too much work to scale the proper difficulty for any number of participants. Scaling= boring.
Now with respect to 40 mans... the number of people actually doing a 40 man might not justify the work required to do it right.
Want to know what keeps people engaged? Rarity. I used to pug alot of raids, as a pug getting to raid was a rare occasion and it was a nice touch treat.
If there are going to be raids, please do it right, no scaling for any number I f players and absolutely no game killing genre killing dungeon or raid finding tools.
Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
my question to you is what the hell is the difference if its instanced or a open world dungeon? you still need to gather 40 people regardless.
Ask that question to the 41st guy to arrive :-) Or the guy that gets kicked because he doesn't have item XXX or doesn't have gear score YYY.
MMO'sare supposed to be fun, social, friendly... and not resolve around ME-ME-ME-ME like the typical WoW-ish crowd.
Nope. WOW called and it wants its 40man raids back.
Its 2013 and i have moved passed this archaic game design.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
Wait...the argument is that 40 minuet raids are long?
I saw this and though "oh wow they significantly shortend raids in this game"
I mean most raids...and i mean real raids, you need to break up over a few days to clear...unless your in a crazy hardcore guild that will clear a raid in 12 hours at once.
40min raids? Sure, why not...its not going to cause me to have to cancel my morning the next day due to being up all night...and those types of raids...well they just are not as fun these days as they use to be.
I do like the idea of scaling based on members, though i know that someone will find the easy sweet spot and everyone will end up raiding with the exact memeber count and composition that was discoverd to be the easiest.
BTW i like hard raids. Easy raids are not even worth the time imo..
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance. But I'm a raider at heart, so I'm really looking forward to gifting you all with the most enjoyable wipes I can manage!
Best quote
And I say ... bring it on!!!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
This is one thing I like and hate about Defiance. Monsters scale depending on how many people are in the area. If there's 100 people, mobs become extremely hard to kill...however if you have a bunch of people doing nothing, it makes it near impossible to do anything lol.
ROFL love that quote.
I never really raided, could not really stand the guild drama to be honest.. But this will be my first MMO were I just put up with it, I really want to test myself in some raids!
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
haha presto!
ill do any time of pve content that requires many people. Im not really fond of battles that should be epic and all we have is a small group of 10 people smacking 1 boss.
i would definitely de interested in a 40+ men raid if the battle is actually different from what we have been seeing for years. (alywas a big dungeon separated by stages with 1 boss at the end of each stage).
Why not have a big raid (40+ men) with a few boss battles at the same time? you encounter a boss and at some point he is losing and call the other bosses to its aid (not just random crappy adds) that way you need more people, more strategy since each boss has different combat tactics, and taht way avoid having one boss with bagillion health points making it a boring, long, teddious fight. And make each encounter as varied as possible so it doesnt feel like grinding the same runs over and over.
I would be completely fine with this as long as these "raids" didnt drop the best loot. As long as the best Loot can be aquired from many different angles then I am fine with raiding.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It is not the time length per se thaty worries me becuase msot games have longerRaids than that,example FFXI Pandemonium Warden opriginally coiuld take 2 days to beat.
What worries me is WHO is making the claim of 40 minutes?If you can predict the time that clsoe,it tells me there is no versatility in the Raid fight.
Is this 40 minutes based on the developer knowing what is the EXACT best setup and if the battle is executed 100% perfect?
personally i am not a fan of Raids ,period,i prefer all content to be kept reasonable in small groups of 3-6 players.
Raids are actually imo a joke in EVERY game,they involve mechancs to offset more dps and usually involve the Boss being immune to all useful abilities.Taht is why is works MUCH better in a small group because yo uwill never have a massive amount of zerg dps,so it allows for you and the Boss AI to be active and reactive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The devil is in the details and we will have to wait and see until probably release to see how the final system plays out. It's safe to assume that things will change a lot in beta once people start pounding on this content.
I do have a few concerns and most of them are touched on in the What is Wildstar: Raids blog if just high level. At least it seems like they understand the issues.
1. Gear progressioin. It's all fine and dandy to say your going to options for solo and small group endgame but if you than turn around and gate the best gear in raids you just made all the content worthless. If you raid there is nothing in the solo and small group content worth doing because the gear is junk. I don't know if the answer is to specalize gear by content (buffs and procs that work best at the content it's earned in), spread best in class gear accross content by slot or something else but it's a huge issue with raid focused games IMO.
2. The need for a specific group makeup. I can't tell you the number of times I have see our EQ2 raid end up doing lower tier content because we didn't have the right mix of classes on. You can hobble though if you have the next tier gear on but you can't really push the boundries without a very specific makeup. I appreciate the flexability being in a less hard core raiding guild offers me when I'm taveling for work but It's fustrating that your options as a guild is either accept doing lower level content some of the times or try and kick anyone who can't be there most of the time. The other end of this however is trivalize raids to the point where any random group of people can beat them and than no one cares about them.
3. Repeatative raiding. Yea the first time you beat a boss is fun. The 50th time however is just old. Hopefully they can make the idea of dyanmic content work but I am doubtfull they will be able to add enough difference and keep the encounter within the difficultly range they are looking for.
40 man raids not 40 minute raids
Depends on what is understood by a raid... if it's some instanced 40 man encounter, then hell no... if it's a world dungeon where you need a raid sized group to get through it, then yeah why not.
my question to you is what the hell is the difference if its instanced or a open world dungeon? you still need to gather 40 people regardless.
the only difference is, if it were instanced, no one gets fucked cause they didn't get their raid together in time or didnt get a chance to join the raid that formed already and is fighting it.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
IMO: 40m raid is just mass lag and tons of slackers.
but may be others like it
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Raids should be moving forward and evolving from some static number requirement. They should scale based on members present. I'm fine with a minimum number required, since anything below 10 i don't consider a raid, but there shouldn't be a max number.
Nothing kills guilds more than not having enough online to raid on a particular night or having people sit out. Scaling raids would alleviate many issues associated with raiding.
I understand the technical difficulties this would bring about, but it's time for someone to step up and make it happen.
No.... I love raiding mind you but theres a few major issues.
1.) People: Getting the numbers can suck, having to need 40 makes it suck even more.
2.) PC limitations: MMos are about allowing the most amount of people play together. Having 40 mans means your going to need things running a way that allows it to happen from both graphics ends and visuals. This can mean that mechanics could be toned back to prevent those issues from effecting the progress, trivializing the difficulty of the content.
3.) Difficulty: Just without the limitations, content involving more people often makes it harder to do difficulty. It can cause stuff to be made "easy" for an encounter. More people means more rooms for slip ups, making the experience possibly easier. Its not of course a 'for sure' thing but you need a bit more wigglie room with more people being involved.
I really don't get what all the fuss is over raiding. Nearly every MMO has had raiding. We're finally getting a few without, and you'd think the world was about to end.
Can raids be fun? Absolutely.
However, it's been discussed to death the problems with raiding. Getting 40+ skilled players, hoping that they all are fun to group with, or at least not annoying / drama queens, and then hoping that they all fit into the same schedule... it's just not practical anymore. People live different lives, and there are far more options game-wise than ever before. People tend to play a lot of different games now, instead of sticking to only 1 or a few.
Personally, the majority of raids i don't think were all that hard. The most problematic part wasn't the content, but the players. I'm also not a fan of gear grinds, and that's what every single raid has amounted to thus far.
Now with respect to 40 mans... the number of people actually doing a 40 man might not justify the work required to do it right.
Want to know what keeps people engaged? Rarity. I used to pug alot of raids, as a pug getting to raid was a rare occasion and it was a nice touch treat.
If there are going to be raids, please do it right, no scaling for any number I f players and absolutely no game killing genre killing dungeon or raid finding tools.
Ask that question to the 41st guy to arrive :-) Or the guy that gets kicked because he doesn't have item XXX or doesn't have gear score YYY.
MMO'sare supposed to be fun, social, friendly... and not resolve around ME-ME-ME-ME like the typical WoW-ish crowd.
Nope. WOW called and it wants its 40man raids back.
Its 2013 and i have moved passed this archaic game design.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney