Originally posted by Darkarai79 i have played WoW and EQ1/2, have raided and done so much grouping. i do prefer EQ1 and 2 over WoW only because the people in wow seem to have a mind of if your not hardcore GTFO lol so that ruined it for me. eq1 and 2 ive never had an issue with.02 cents. expenasion wise. i think eq1 has done a splendid job up to PoP. after that nope not at all. in EQ2 when bought the new Velious expansion pack, i was stoked i just finished the last Xpac and then all of a sudden i had trouble fighting trash mobs until i got a piece of gear fro ma random quest ? thats where eq2 kinda sucked. EQ1 is getting that way too i hear.
so, you think EQ qas a better game because you had a better guild?
some people's logic is so flawed...
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I'm currently playing ps2. Eqn will use the same engine. It's certainly an engine that can deliver a zero instance game in the vein of vanilla EQ, pre catacombs daoc or ac.
Way ps2 works there are 3 continents per server. Each continent supports 2000 players, and each continent is a zone, but NOT an instance.
Now Eqn will have to handle things ps2 doesn't like mobs and their ai. But then it won't have to handle things like bullet tracing and probably real time combat.
So I think its an engine that could deliver an instance if they chose to do so. And I hope they do. No instances would be a big selling point for a lot if us older gamers and make the game vastly different from the glut of wow clones out there.
As a daoc vet I'm more looking forwards to Eqn than TESO. TESO looks 80% wow / 20% gw2 to me.
All of the expansions the OP listed as a good thing other devs should learn from EQ1 is literally the worst expansions the game ever released.
All of those expanions completely decimated the core game of what EQ1 originally was. And destroyed the community.
LDoN - the creation of instances and the grind for commendations for gear = ghost town leveling zones for each level of adventure camp quests.
SoL - added AA's which were good, also added the Bazaar which completely gutted the community trading in the Commonlands Tunnel.
PoP- added PoK and all those god damn books that instantly teleported you to any city in the world so wiz/druids had no more business being a taxi. Also killed off any reason to go to your actual home town or travel since you could just go right to PoK and get EVERY SINGLE SPELL!!!! Also added the ultra happy time raiding progression which consumed the game from that point on. And all the other expansions after that just catered directly to that raiding treadmill and left the other parts of the game to rot. Oh, and it also killed the god damn boats because the poorly tested expansion teleporting books broke them and the devs had no idea how it happened or how to fix it.
So they added a dumbass gnome to teleport you across the oceans and killed my favorite part of the game. Devs DO NOT FOLLOW THESE EXPANSIONS!!
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I'm just not sold on this. I remember EQ all too well. If it were to launch today under the current conditions, I'm fairly sure it would be a marginalized game.no one would play it. For all of our wooing, we've gone from our younger selves to our older selves. I don't have the time or the commitment anymore to sit and spawn camp a mob for 72 hrs. Especially considering it'd just be kill stealed on me after I waited my turn.
Yes, the gear was nice. I remember working for everything in that game. Hanging out in the tunnel. Dying because I failed to notice a Trrrrraaaaaaaiiiiinnnn! Incoming on my position.
Sorry, I just don't think this would have that great of a market in today's MMOs.
And suddenly I am happy that, in Vanguard, there isnt actually so much development going on.
Seriously, random drops replacing your hard earned raid gear from last expansion ? Nah, not seriously. I cant take that seriously. Thats someone out to give the players the middle finger.
LDoN - the creation of instances and the grind for commendations for gear = ghost town leveling zones for each level of adventure camp quests.
LDON had instanced dungeons
but players still had to group together the old fashioned way and travel to the dungeon entrance
LDON dungeons were no worse than WOW's instanced Classic dungeons (before dungeon finder)
LDoNs were significantly better than WoWs classic dungeons, because there was a bit of randomness to them. Mob placement was not always static and LDoN's really highlighted EQs great group mechanics.
While it started a bad trend, it remains one of the greatest expansions in MMO history. It was my favroite era in any MMO ever because it emphasized the dungeon crawl, but not as a linear experience. And socialization was at its peak during this expansion.
And suddenly I am happy that, in Vanguard, there isnt actually so much development going on.
Seriously, random drops replacing your hard earned raid gear from last expansion ? Nah, not seriously. I cant take that seriously. Thats someone out to give the players the middle finger.
Players generally do not like to be shown that they were being idiots who obsessed over meaningless pixels. It hurts their egos.
Personally I found it empowering to ralize how silly I was obsessing about raid loot and gear progression. I loved the freedom of not worrying about DKP and the random loot generator. I was no longer a slave to the raid progression system and could enjoy the game again.
One reason WoW has maintained much higher sub levels than EQ, is the time between expansions, I think. Each expansion alienates a portion of players who perhaps feel they aren't 'keeping up.' With EQ this happened every six months. In WoW this happened every twenty-four months.
EQ literally alienated 99% of its players. Smart move there SOE.
This is why the game world must be big to start with. Star Wars Galaxies, for instance, was absolutely huge. There was plenty of room to get "lost". Their first expansion wasn't just some typical expansion of land and a new raid boss. It was an optional game-changer that added in a totally new realm of experience: space fight / space exploration / space pvp.
This same concept should apply to every MMO.
For a fantasy MMO, the first expansion should be something like an extremely deep "sea" experience. I'm not just talking about some player boat, but a ship that sails as if it is its own game, e.g., manning the wheel, plotting courses, battling waves and using the wind, battling gigantic sea creatures, discovering new islands or lands, the ability to hire NPCs that will sail your long voyages while you roam the ship, ability to "house" on your ship, real city ports for docking (no instances) etc.
Expansions need to be more than just the typical expansion of land.
So a bad thing then, a slide towards "glorified lobby game"
A movement towards but very slightly. It still took a long time to get gear so the there wasn't the frothing at the mouth like modern dungeons. The "game" was still about adventuring with others and not speed of completion and mathematics .
Originally posted by Arclan One reason WoW has maintained much higher sub levels than EQ, is the time between expansions, I think. Each expansion alienates a portion of players who perhaps feel they aren't 'keeping up.' With EQ this happened every six months. In WoW this happened every twenty-four months. EQ literally alienated 99% of its players. Smart move there SOE.
IMO i don't think that is even close to the main reason wow has had higher sub levels.
EQ maintained their sub levels for a very long time even with how often they came out with expansions.
wow was the first mmo to become mainstream and brought in a whole heck of a lot of new players to the genre.
it was easier, casual/solo friendly,and it already had a huge bnet following.
yes wow's expansions took longer and were more polished, which made it a more quality product.
but that isn't even close to why it maintained higher sub levels compared to EQ.
I'm currently (re?)playing EQ1 on the Fippy Darkpaw progression server, which is reminding me of how things in the "current" era were back on live EQ. Fippy is at the point I like to call "The Era of Marginal Upgrades". This was a point, back in oh 2005-2008 where EQ1 regained a lot of its former subs and even gained some new ones, so what precisely is it that EQ DID in this era?
There were 3 expansions in a row with no level cap raise. Everyone was 70 for these expansions. The four expansions prior to it were both level 65. It should be noted that alternate advancements(which are most akin to planar attunment in RIFT these days) WERE added with most, but not all, of these expansions, and so were new spells for every class. So in order these expansions were:
Lost Dungeons of Norrath (LdoN) - 65 - No real end raid, just several, this was the introduction of instancing to EQ1.
Planes of Power (PoP) - 65 - End Raid: PoTime (Time)
(Note) Legacy of Ykesha (LoY) was released somewhere in here, I think after PoP and also was level cap 65, however it wasn't much in the way of a raid or group expansion, more of a storyline release allowing a new player race and adding in some low level armor quests for new players.
Gates of Discord (GoD) - 65 - End Raid: Tacvi
Omens of War (OoW) - 70 - End Raid: Citidal of Anguish (CoA)
Depths of Darkhollow (DoDH) - 70 - End Raid: Demiplane of Blood (DP)
Prophecy of Ro (PoR) - 70 - End Raid: Deathknell (DK)
So during this period Group gear lagged slightly behind raid gear, a good group geared player could enter into raids and function as a valuable member of the raid. A player in Time gear could tank/dps/heal Tacvi, a player in Tacvi gear could tank/dps/heal CoA, etc. Progressional raid content, such as the MPG Trials required to access CoA, had gear equivalent to the last expansion's end raid. So MPG trials dropped Tacvi level loot. Blood raids, required for demiplane access, dropped CoA level loot.
Not only that but instanced group gear was equivalent to raid gear from 2 expansions before, giving casual players a solid upgrade path in order to prepare for raids. DoDH group gear from hard missions, for example, rewarded Tacvi level loot(or close to Tacvi level)
There wasn't a huge power gap between these expansions! Tacvi loot was 275 health/mana/endurance with secondary stats and mods like attack and accuracy. CoA loot had upgraded secondary stats and mod2s and 300 h/m/e. DP loot was 330 h/m/e with upgraded secondary stats and mods.
One of the biggest gripes that WoW players have had over the years is that the second a new expansion launches their raid gear is crap, replacing end-game raid gear with quested greens from the first zone of a new expansion is demoralizing, and creates a massive power gap that turns returning players away. On the other hand, the minor power gap between expansions during this era in EQ1 made it one of the most popular raiding eras and encouraged old players to return and new players to join in. Just how popular can be seen by the fact that Fippy Darkpaw is the highest population EQ1 server, and has been reported to have a higher population than any EQ2 server.
You know I have read up on this progression server stuff years ago. Can you elaborate on it? I would really be interested if there was a way to experience the old content. Need a tank? :P
Originally posted by adrikthorsenI'm currently (re?)playing EQ1 on the Fippy Darkpaw progression server, which is reminding me of how things in the "current" era were back on live EQ. Fippy is at the point I like to call "The Era of Marginal Upgrades". This was a point, back in oh 2005-2008 where EQ1 regained a lot of its former subs and even gained some new ones, so what precisely is it that EQ DID in this era?There were 3 expansions in a row with no level cap raise. Everyone was 70 for these expansions. The four expansions prior to it were both level 65. It should be noted that alternate advancements(which are most akin to planar attunment in RIFT these days) WERE added with most, but not all, of these expansions, and so were new spells for every class. So in order these expansions were:Lost Dungeons of Norrath (LdoN) - 65 - No real end raid, just several, this was the introduction of instancing to EQ1.Planes of Power (PoP) - 65 - End Raid: PoTime (Time)(Note) Legacy of Ykesha (LoY) was released somewhere in here, I think after PoP and also was level cap 65, however it wasn't much in the way of a raid or group expansion, more of a storyline release allowing a new player race and adding in some low level armor quests for new players.Gates of Discord (GoD) - 65 - End Raid: TacviOmens of War (OoW) - 70 - End Raid: Citidal of Anguish (CoA)Depths of Darkhollow (DoDH) - 70 - End Raid: Demiplane of Blood (DP)Prophecy of Ro (PoR) - 70 - End Raid: Deathknell (DK)So during this period Group gear lagged slightly behind raid gear, a good group geared player could enter into raids and function as a valuable member of the raid. A player in Time gear could tank/dps/heal Tacvi, a player in Tacvi gear could tank/dps/heal CoA, etc. Progressional raid content, such as the MPG Trials required to access CoA, had gear equivalent to the last expansion's end raid. So MPG trials dropped Tacvi level loot. Blood raids, required for demiplane access, dropped CoA level loot.Not only that but instanced group gear was equivalent to raid gear from 2 expansions before, giving casual players a solid upgrade path in order to prepare for raids. DoDH group gear from hard missions, for example, rewarded Tacvi level loot(or close to Tacvi level)There wasn't a huge power gap between these expansions! Tacvi loot was 275 health/mana/endurance with secondary stats and mods like attack and accuracy. CoA loot had upgraded secondary stats and mod2s and 300 h/m/e. DP loot was 330 h/m/e with upgraded secondary stats and mods.One of the biggest gripes that WoW players have had over the years is that the second a new expansion launches their raid gear is crap, replacing end-game raid gear with quested greens from the first zone of a new expansion is demoralizing, and creates a massive power gap that turns returning players away. On the other hand, the minor power gap between expansions during this era in EQ1 made it one of the most popular raiding eras and encouraged old players to return and new players to join in. Just how popular can be seen by the fact that Fippy Darkpaw is the highest population EQ1 server, and has been reported to have a higher population than any EQ2 server.
You know I have read up on this progression server stuff years ago. Can you elaborate on it? I would really be interested if there was a way to experience the old content. Need a tank? :P
but its on the OOW expansion currently, don't waste your time if you want a more classic feel.
the closest thing to a classic feel you are going to get from an EQ1 official SOE server is the Eqmac server.
All devs have learned from EQ, and not every game has to be level and gear based, which is all EQ is.
Yes I still play EQ1 been playing on and off since march 1999, and yes I have two level 100s.
EQ is still completely about levels/AA and most importantly gear. My lvl 100 mage with focused 96 pet can molo all group content and lots of Raid content (past expansions).
This creates a huge disparity where you see a player that is undergeared and without enough AA he simply cannot do some content period, and on the other hand I can breeze through stuff half asleep due to my gear and AAs. Its a very closed and limited system, with hard level and gear limits.
I think Devs have learned to build systems that are not solely based on levels and gear, and thats a good thing.
When discussing eq I think we need to distunguish between the original eq which was the first x expansions, and current eq which is far from its original ideas.
If you view from current eq, you are right it is very gear/level focused. If you view the older eq, skill played a much bigger role.
Playing progression server from the beginning, although soiled by current eq, gave a little reminder of this.
Devs such as Blizzard have not learned to build systems where gear/levels are not important, on the contrary, progressing is solely based on gear as you know if you raided wow - Early eq was not like that, the "gear-check" raid mechanics only started several expansions after.
i think it was a better game because it made more sense. i never was a guild person. the only guild ive ever been in was WoW and it wasn't really a guild it was just more of a small group of people that played and didn't bash you for not getting a piece of gear, the other was in eq2 who also was the same thing. Guild had nothign to with it. i just preffered eq1 and 2.
All devs have learned from EQ, and not every game has to be level and gear based, which is all EQ is.
Yes I still play EQ1 been playing on and off since march 1999, and yes I have two level 100s.
EQ is still completely about levels/AA and most importantly gear. My lvl 100 mage with focused 96 pet can molo all group content and lots of Raid content (past expansions).
This creates a huge disparity where you see a player that is undergeared and without enough AA he simply cannot do some content period, and on the other hand I can breeze through stuff half asleep due to my gear and AAs. Its a very closed and limited system, with hard level and gear limits.
I think Devs have learned to build systems that are not solely based on levels and gear, and thats a good thing.
When discussing eq I think we need to distunguish between the original eq which was the first x expansions, and current eq which is far from its original ideas.
If you view from current eq, you are right it is very gear/level focused. If you view the older eq, skill played a much bigger role.
Playing progression server from the beginning, although soiled by current eq, gave a little reminder of this.
Devs such as Blizzard have not learned to build systems where gear/levels are not important, on the contrary, progressing is solely based on gear as you know if you raided wow - Early eq was not like that, the "gear-check" raid mechanics only started several expansions after.
some people don't see that at all lol Old EQ was amazing but they started appealing to the people who couldn't what it was originally. i wonder if they never fell would EQ still be the same ?
So during this period Group gear lagged slightly behind raid gear, a good group geared player could enter into raids and function as a valuable member of the raid. A player in Time gear could tank/dps/heal Tacvi, a player in Tacvi gear could tank/dps/heal CoA, etc. Progressional raid content, such as the MPG Trials required to access CoA, had gear equivalent to the last expansion's end raid. So MPG trials dropped Tacvi level loot. Blood raids, required for demiplane access, dropped CoA level loot.
What the hell are you talking about.
Slightly?
Take two weapons from the top group and top raid zone.
The raid weapon has twice the ratio the group one has, add the insane mod benefits raiders had.
Raiders were doing 2 to 3 times the DPS a group player did.
The difference is far worse if I add in 2.0 that made group weapons look like toys.
I could solo with a cleric friend in Wall of slaugher because I had raid gear, group players required 6 players to do the same. I was at least twice as powerful as a group player, at least.
The difference in power between a raid player and a group player in Everquest was humongous, especially because of the important defensive mods such as avoidance and raw stats like AC.
A good group geared player also couldn't just enter tacvi raids. I raided tacvi, without raid gear you would die from ramp and adds, unless you did it long post release.
OOW Group, ratio of 0, 8
Raid, ratio of 1,5
Worn armor, same thing, raid items were over twice as powerful as group items.
That's hardly slightly, there was a huge gap in Everquest between group players and raid players.
I find it strange how skewed people's memories of old school EQ often are.
EQ had notoriously bad "mudflation", though not as ridiculous as World of Warcraft and modern MMOs, you can probably pinpoint that start of ridiculous item inflation on Everquest.
Since Plane of Fear/Hate there was always a huge difference in gear from a raid geared player and a non-raid geared player.
There was a huge difference of gear levels in each (major) expansion especially from Kunark->Luclin to Luclin->Planes of Power. There were a few items that weren't immediately replaced in expansions (for example some epic weapons were still "top" gear two expansions later), but these were mostly due to having powerful effects.
Later expansions (Velious and on) had enough raid content where each expansion had a variety of different tiers (for lack of a better term) of gear and difficulty including many of the expansion content having raid and gear levels at a lower tier than the previous expansion; however the end tier was almost always going to have you replace the majority of your gear from the last expansions (though loot acquisition in EQ was so slow and you raided with so many people) that you'd often be a hardcore raider and not replace your gear from the previous expansion until the NEXT expansion after the current one.
There were still items that were useful and you maybe even kept equipped for effects they had. Examples include haste items, epic weapons, regeneration / flowing thought, and items you clicked for buffs. Later on with PoP this also included focus items.
Group gear never "lagged slightly behind" again, from Velious on there was an INSANE difference between a raid geared player and a group geared player, and later on ~Planes of Power you even needed to be raid geared and kill raid bosses to get to later group content. Again, aside from items with some useful effects, for the most part gear obtained through group play had only 50% (possibly less) stats than gear obtained in entry level raiding, and it just got worse if you are talking about the end tier of progression and that gear in raiding.
Did EQ regain it's former subs? I thought it started losing a significant amount of subs with the end of Planes of Power and start of LDoN expansion (which I enjoyed, but many found lackluster)? Any proof of that?
I can't speak for eras after LDoN / LoY (BTW I'm almost certain LDoN was AFTER PoP not before it) as I didn't play GoD/OoW+, but I'm also pretty sure EQ has losing a massive amount of subscribers at this especially since around this time the big MMO releases (WoW/GW/EQ2) were coming.
Comments
so, you think EQ qas a better game because you had a better guild?
some people's logic is so flawed...
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I'm currently playing ps2. Eqn will use the same engine. It's certainly an engine that can deliver a zero instance game in the vein of vanilla EQ, pre catacombs daoc or ac.
Way ps2 works there are 3 continents per server. Each continent supports 2000 players, and each continent is a zone, but NOT an instance.
Now Eqn will have to handle things ps2 doesn't like mobs and their ai.
But then it won't have to handle things like bullet tracing and probably real time combat.
So I think its an engine that could deliver an instance if they chose to do so. And I hope they do. No instances would be a big selling point for a lot if us older gamers and make the game vastly different from the glut of wow clones out there.
As a daoc vet I'm more looking forwards to Eqn than TESO. TESO looks 80% wow / 20% gw2 to me.
All of the expansions the OP listed as a good thing other devs should learn from EQ1 is literally the worst expansions the game ever released.
All of those expanions completely decimated the core game of what EQ1 originally was. And destroyed the community.
LDoN - the creation of instances and the grind for commendations for gear = ghost town leveling zones for each level of adventure camp quests.
SoL - added AA's which were good, also added the Bazaar which completely gutted the community trading in the Commonlands Tunnel.
PoP- added PoK and all those god damn books that instantly teleported you to any city in the world so wiz/druids had no more business being a taxi. Also killed off any reason to go to your actual home town or travel since you could just go right to PoK and get EVERY SINGLE SPELL!!!! Also added the ultra happy time raiding progression which consumed the game from that point on. And all the other expansions after that just catered directly to that raiding treadmill and left the other parts of the game to rot. Oh, and it also killed the god damn boats because the poorly tested expansion teleporting books broke them and the devs had no idea how it happened or how to fix it.
So they added a dumbass gnome to teleport you across the oceans and killed my favorite part of the game. Devs DO NOT FOLLOW THESE EXPANSIONS!!
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I'm just not sold on this. I remember EQ all too well. If it were to launch today under the current conditions, I'm fairly sure it would be a marginalized game.no one would play it. For all of our wooing, we've gone from our younger selves to our older selves. I don't have the time or the commitment anymore to sit and spawn camp a mob for 72 hrs. Especially considering it'd just be kill stealed on me after I waited my turn.
Yes, the gear was nice. I remember working for everything in that game. Hanging out in the tunnel. Dying because I failed to notice a Trrrrraaaaaaaiiiiinnnn! Incoming on my position.
Sorry, I just don't think this would have that great of a market in today's MMOs.
LDON had instanced dungeons
but players still had to group together the old fashioned way and travel to the dungeon entrance
LDON dungeons were no worse than WOW's instanced Classic dungeons (before dungeon finder)
EQ2 fan sites
And suddenly I am happy that, in Vanguard, there isnt actually so much development going on.
Seriously, random drops replacing your hard earned raid gear from last expansion ? Nah, not seriously. I cant take that seriously. Thats someone out to give the players the middle finger.
So a bad thing then, a slide towards "glorified lobby game"
LDoNs were significantly better than WoWs classic dungeons, because there was a bit of randomness to them. Mob placement was not always static and LDoN's really highlighted EQs great group mechanics.
While it started a bad trend, it remains one of the greatest expansions in MMO history. It was my favroite era in any MMO ever because it emphasized the dungeon crawl, but not as a linear experience. And socialization was at its peak during this expansion.
Players generally do not like to be shown that they were being idiots who obsessed over meaningless pixels. It hurts their egos.
Personally I found it empowering to ralize how silly I was obsessing about raid loot and gear progression. I loved the freedom of not worrying about DKP and the random loot generator. I was no longer a slave to the raid progression system and could enjoy the game again.
This is why the game world must be big to start with. Star Wars Galaxies, for instance, was absolutely huge. There was plenty of room to get "lost". Their first expansion wasn't just some typical expansion of land and a new raid boss. It was an optional game-changer that added in a totally new realm of experience: space fight / space exploration / space pvp.
This same concept should apply to every MMO.
For a fantasy MMO, the first expansion should be something like an extremely deep "sea" experience. I'm not just talking about some player boat, but a ship that sails as if it is its own game, e.g., manning the wheel, plotting courses, battling waves and using the wind, battling gigantic sea creatures, discovering new islands or lands, the ability to hire NPCs that will sail your long voyages while you roam the ship, ability to "house" on your ship, real city ports for docking (no instances) etc.
Expansions need to be more than just the typical expansion of land.
A movement towards but very slightly. It still took a long time to get gear so the there wasn't the frothing at the mouth like modern dungeons. The "game" was still about adventuring with others and not speed of completion and mathematics
.
IMO i don't think that is even close to the main reason wow has had higher sub levels.
EQ maintained their sub levels for a very long time even with how often they came out with expansions.
wow was the first mmo to become mainstream and brought in a whole heck of a lot of new players to the genre.
it was easier, casual/solo friendly,and it already had a huge bnet following.
yes wow's expansions took longer and were more polished, which made it a more quality product.
but that isn't even close to why it maintained higher sub levels compared to EQ.
You know I have read up on this progression server stuff years ago. Can you elaborate on it? I would really be interested if there was a way to experience the old content. Need a tank? :P
but its on the OOW expansion currently, don't waste your time if you want a more classic feel.
the closest thing to a classic feel you are going to get from an EQ1 official SOE server is the Eqmac server.
which can be played on a PC last i checked.
Not at all. There is nothing wrong with fun "glorified lobby game".
When discussing eq I think we need to distunguish between the original eq which was the first x expansions, and current eq which is far from its original ideas.
If you view from current eq, you are right it is very gear/level focused. If you view the older eq, skill played a much bigger role.
Playing progression server from the beginning, although soiled by current eq, gave a little reminder of this.
Devs such as Blizzard have not learned to build systems where gear/levels are not important, on the contrary, progressing is solely based on gear as you know if you raided wow - Early eq was not like that, the "gear-check" raid mechanics only started several expansions after.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
some people don't see that at all lol Old EQ was amazing but they started appealing to the people who couldn't what it was originally. i wonder if they never fell would EQ still be the same ?
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
There was still a ton of level and gear chasing in original EQ, it become worse yes, but it has been a major factor for the game since day 1.
Fungi tunics, manastone, clicky invis...
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
What the hell are you talking about.
Slightly?
Take two weapons from the top group and top raid zone.
The raid weapon has twice the ratio the group one has, add the insane mod benefits raiders had.
Raiders were doing 2 to 3 times the DPS a group player did.
The difference is far worse if I add in 2.0 that made group weapons look like toys.
I could solo with a cleric friend in Wall of slaugher because I had raid gear, group players required 6 players to do the same. I was at least twice as powerful as a group player, at least.
The difference in power between a raid player and a group player in Everquest was humongous, especially because of the important defensive mods such as avoidance and raw stats like AC.
A good group geared player also couldn't just enter tacvi raids. I raided tacvi, without raid gear you would die from ramp and adds, unless you did it long post release.
OOW Group, ratio of 0, 8
Raid, ratio of 1,5
Worn armor, same thing, raid items were over twice as powerful as group items.
That's hardly slightly, there was a huge gap in Everquest between group players and raid players.
Group breastplate OOW 150 hps
Raid breastplate OOW 360 hps + tons of mods
I find it strange how skewed people's memories of old school EQ often are.
EQ had notoriously bad "mudflation", though not as ridiculous as World of Warcraft and modern MMOs, you can probably pinpoint that start of ridiculous item inflation on Everquest.
Since Plane of Fear/Hate there was always a huge difference in gear from a raid geared player and a non-raid geared player.
There was a huge difference of gear levels in each (major) expansion especially from Kunark->Luclin to Luclin->Planes of Power. There were a few items that weren't immediately replaced in expansions (for example some epic weapons were still "top" gear two expansions later), but these were mostly due to having powerful effects.
Later expansions (Velious and on) had enough raid content where each expansion had a variety of different tiers (for lack of a better term) of gear and difficulty including many of the expansion content having raid and gear levels at a lower tier than the previous expansion; however the end tier was almost always going to have you replace the majority of your gear from the last expansions (though loot acquisition in EQ was so slow and you raided with so many people) that you'd often be a hardcore raider and not replace your gear from the previous expansion until the NEXT expansion after the current one.
There were still items that were useful and you maybe even kept equipped for effects they had. Examples include haste items, epic weapons, regeneration / flowing thought, and items you clicked for buffs. Later on with PoP this also included focus items.
Group gear never "lagged slightly behind" again, from Velious on there was an INSANE difference between a raid geared player and a group geared player, and later on ~Planes of Power you even needed to be raid geared and kill raid bosses to get to later group content. Again, aside from items with some useful effects, for the most part gear obtained through group play had only 50% (possibly less) stats than gear obtained in entry level raiding, and it just got worse if you are talking about the end tier of progression and that gear in raiding.
Did EQ regain it's former subs? I thought it started losing a significant amount of subs with the end of Planes of Power and start of LDoN expansion (which I enjoyed, but many found lackluster)? Any proof of that?
I can't speak for eras after LDoN / LoY (BTW I'm almost certain LDoN was AFTER PoP not before it) as I didn't play GoD/OoW+, but I'm also pretty sure EQ has losing a massive amount of subscribers at this especially since around this time the big MMO releases (WoW/GW/EQ2) were coming.