This attitude comes from people endlessly repeating content, in such away that they take their habbits to a game build to have enough content so people dont have to repeat anything. Just try to tell people to relax...
They should make content in dungeond more dynamic on top of that, in such a way. That the 2nd time someone plays a dungeon it feels different.
and make traps count, with lethal consequences if they are ignored... Combined with a good death pennalty this will force people to think..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
D&D ws designed arounf the idea of a bunch af FRIENDS sitting down around a table and having fun.
Any game based on D&D just wont feel like D&D unless you play it with a bunch of likeminded friends. It is as simple as that.
THe exact same thing turned me off on DDO when that was originally released. A few years later I returned with a few friends whn it went f2p, and suddenly the game was a lot of fun.
People are probably just trying to see as much as they can in the short time available. It's closed so there will be a wipe before soft-launch. Why shouldn't they run a little carelessly, exploring and taking it all in.
Is it that big of a deal?
It will be the same live and yes it's a big deal for those that want a dungeon experience and not a FPS one.
I mean, seriously. Is the frigging world going to end, and I dont know? I am so tired and worn out of this. EVERY single dungeon with EVERY single group I was in was running through the DAMN dungeons!
Not looking left, not looking right.
I played Rogue, but *everyone* just walzed over the traps, don't care, not looking for secrets nothing.
I am so TIRED of that. And I feel like a fossil or a creep when I just want to stay a minute or two somewhere and look. Or sneak careful through the dungeon. Or just CHAT with your group.
Good riddance.
dont worry, if the game designers have any sense at all, groups with rogues in them, will have traps spawn that will be very lethal if the rogue isnt utilized to disarm and detect them.
which is how it should be, little johny sonofabitch should die in horrible fire every time he runs ahead without the all clear.
I mean, seriously. Is the frigging world going to end, and I dont know? I am so tired and worn out of this. EVERY single dungeon with EVERY single group I was in was running through the DAMN dungeons!
Not looking left, not looking right.
I played Rogue, but *everyone* just walzed over the traps, don't care, not looking for secrets nothing.
I am so TIRED of that. And I feel like a fossil or a creep when I just want to stay a minute or two somewhere and look. Or sneak careful through the dungeon. Or just CHAT with your group.
Good riddance.
DDO is this way too, it's the way content locust play these days. My advice, find a group of buddies that play that way and only play with them. That is how I did it.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
DDO is this way too, it's the way content locust play these days. My advice, find a group of buddies that play that way and only play with them. That is how I did it.
This. If you don't like what you get in pugs why do you bother with them? You can not change the way other people play the game so your options are limited. You can find like minded people and only play the game with them, you can not run dungeons at all, you can just deal with it or you can quit. Thats really about it.
I really hate that attitude as well, really fucking HATE it. But it's commonplace nowadays.
I think it's also because dungeons are generally so much easier than in earlier days and the need to CC has all but disappeared. Really regret to see that evolution.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I agree with you totaly on this, many times i would say hey you past a treasure chest back there. nobody said a word just kept on trucking till the end. Sad.
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
This isn't limited to Neverwinter. If it's possible to go through dungeons at a dead run, apparently most players will do just that. I think every once in awhile it's fun, but not every time, which is what seems to happen. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground though. It seems like dungeons started off as very long involved events, and developers realized people wanted them shorter and faster, so they made them shorter and faster, but still with some interesting mechanics. People just ignore it anyway. At some point, developers are just going to just put people in a maze, with waves of mobs to fight and call it a dungeon because it seems like that's what people want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I really hate that attitude as well, really fucking HATE it. But it's commonplace nowadays.
I think it's also because dungeons are generally so much easier than in earlier days and the need to CC has all but disappeared. Really regret to see that evolution.
It also comes fact that more people play MMOs nowdays. You can't have too hard or people will just avoid game all together. Problem is that developers or rather dungeon designers keep using same old templates and end up just easing stuff inside, because people want it. So you end up with long pipe with prize in the end. Radical new design is needed for dungeons and group content.
I got really frustrated too...but eventually decided to just be on my own program...checked every area while everyone else killed everything....I found some really good stuff...they just killed stuff.
Unlimited amounts of healing took the teeth out of traps. A trap didn't always have to be deadly, they only had to nick you a few times to either make you face the next encounter wounded or with fewer healing spells/potions at your disposal. Dealing with the trap by disarming it or succeeding the proper save was a reward, not a necessity.
Now that you can easily heal up after a trap without losing anything for the next fight, traps are either a minor annoyance or an instant death that requires a rogue in your group to proceed.
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
the later dungeons in this game are not very easy imho.. also the epic level ones are downright hard.. well hard for me at least:P
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I mean, seriously. Is the frigging world going to end, and I dont know? I am so tired and worn out of this. EVERY single dungeon with EVERY single group I was in was running through the DAMN dungeons!
Not looking left, not looking right.
I played Rogue, but *everyone* just walzed over the traps, don't care, not looking for secrets nothing.
I am so TIRED of that. And I feel like a fossil or a creep when I just want to stay a minute or two somewhere and look. Or sneak careful through the dungeon. Or just CHAT with your group.
Good riddance.
Most pugs are like that. try and find a group of like minded players/friends. Pugs tend to be composed of some of the lowest of the low. people to busy to talk who just want to steam roll content as fast as possible. There are a few exceptions to the rules but generally speaking friends don't let friends pug.
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
It will be interesting to see if the foundry will let players resolvethat issue. Unlike many games Neverwinter is not lmited by Deveolper content. i assume the foundry will let some DM's create some truely daunting death trap dungeons for those that dare to brave them.. Real question is will those that complain Developer dungeons are to easy actually play the harder player made ones or will they just go the route of least resistance and play the easy dungeons faster?
I'm also tired of folks running through the dungeons at breakneck speed, in any game. I quit playing WoW again partially because of it, and haven't even bothered to attempt any in GW2 yet.
What I wouldn't give to have dungeons on par with something out of Dark Souls, or Legend of Grimrock, in an MMO. A dungeon so dangerous that even once you know where all the hazards are, it can still eat a careless group for breakfast. Could you imagine a group of people trying to run full steam through Sen's Fortress? I can almost visualize all the raging...
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
the later dungeons in this game are not very easy imho.. also the epic level ones are downright hard.. well hard for me at least:P
Yep, the first dungeon that started getting really meaty was Lair of the Mad Dragon, at level 30ish, which took my group just over 2 hours the first time we ran through it. Very long dungeon. I joined this dungeon as a group were up to the final boss, and it took me nearly 20 minutes just to run to the end with all the mobs cleared.
OP, if you are basing this assumption off the Cloak Tower, you are way off base. Later dungeons are LONG. With lots of secrets to find.
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
the later dungeons in this game are not very easy imho.. also the epic level ones are downright hard.. well hard for me at least:P
Yep, the first dungeon that started getting really meaty was Lair of the Mad Dragon, at level 30ish, which took my group just over 2 hours the first time we ran through it. Very long dungeon. I joined this dungeon as a group were up to the final boss, and it took me nearly 20 minutes just to run to the end with all the mobs cleared.
OP, if you are basing this assumption off the Cloak Tower, you are way off base. Later dungeons are LONG. With lots of secrets to find.
i cant wait too enter this mad dragon lair, and beat the snot out of this mad dragon!
I mean, seriously. Is the frigging world going to end, and I dont know? I am so tired and worn out of this. EVERY single dungeon with EVERY single group I was in was running through the DAMN dungeons!
Not looking left, not looking right.
I played Rogue, but *everyone* just walzed over the traps, don't care, not looking for secrets nothing.
I am so TIRED of that. And I feel like a fossil or a creep when I just want to stay a minute or two somewhere and look. Or sneak careful through the dungeon. Or just CHAT with your group.
Good riddance.
Until that rogue playstyle (traps and stealthing) becomes important and the danger of traps becomes very serious, people will just run all over the place as there is little incentive to do otherwise.
But if one day those things return to rpgs, you will have a section of the playerbase who will complain that that forces rogues (and related skill sets) into groups which is offensive.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I understand your pain OP, cause I'm also one of these explorers that seem to extinct nowadays. MMORPGs tend to go the "dumber, faster, smaller, shallower"-path. Its a shame and Neverwinter is a prototype of these games.
For Neverwinter, I'm really looking forward to the point, when people start abusing the foundry and grinding some self created "experience bombs" dungeons.
Mark my words. A few weeks after the start, there will be some foundry dungeons, where you can easily grind, collect xp and loot without any effort. 95% of the people will grind those unbalanced dungeons and you will see exploitation and abuse in every corner. Happy farming in Neverwinter! Yay!
Complaining about PUGs is part of the MMO fabric. PUGs have always sucked since the days of EQ where people would try to forge ahead, get killed, ninja loot or whatever. Then they would lose their body and scream and whine for you to come corpse drag them.
Yes games these days have become too easy so you can pretty much faceroll through and get your awesome loot. I tend to see this as the result of a saturated market - if a game is too hard the devs and publishers are afraid you will quit and play one of the many other games out there.
But you can't only blame the low difficultly threshold of today's games. The internet affords people the opportunity to be entirely selfish and anti-social. Go into PUGs with this expectation, or otherwise meet some decent people who like to play the way you do.
I hate how people rush in games. Dungeons highlight this, and it happens in every game.
I remember Rift (last major themepark i raided and did hardmodes in) people would find bugged terrain so they could skip large patches of mobs, people found ways to glitch bosses and would do that rather than figure out how to beat the guy legit. Running in an exact line past tons of mobs as to not draw aggro and skip it all.
Just another means in which todays gamer generation attempts to suck every last bit of fun out of these games. Its sad really.
Comments
This attitude comes from people endlessly repeating content, in such away that they take their habbits to a game build to have enough content so people dont have to repeat anything. Just try to tell people to relax...
They should make content in dungeond more dynamic on top of that, in such a way. That the 2nd time someone plays a dungeon it feels different.
and make traps count, with lethal consequences if they are ignored... Combined with a good death pennalty this will force people to think..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
D&D ws designed arounf the idea of a bunch af FRIENDS sitting down around a table and having fun.
Any game based on D&D just wont feel like D&D unless you play it with a bunch of likeminded friends. It is as simple as that.
THe exact same thing turned me off on DDO when that was originally released. A few years later I returned with a few friends whn it went f2p, and suddenly the game was a lot of fun.
D&D dungeon crawls just plays best with friends.
It will be the same live and yes it's a big deal for those that want a dungeon experience and not a FPS one.
dont worry, if the game designers have any sense at all, groups with rogues in them, will have traps spawn that will be very lethal if the rogue isnt utilized to disarm and detect them.
which is how it should be, little johny sonofabitch should die in horrible fire every time he runs ahead without the all clear.
DDO is this way too, it's the way content locust play these days. My advice, find a group of buddies that play that way and only play with them. That is how I did it.
This. If you don't like what you get in pugs why do you bother with them? You can not change the way other people play the game so your options are limited. You can find like minded people and only play the game with them, you can not run dungeons at all, you can just deal with it or you can quit. Thats really about it.
I really hate that attitude as well, really fucking HATE it. But it's commonplace nowadays.
I think it's also because dungeons are generally so much easier than in earlier days and the need to CC has all but disappeared. Really regret to see that evolution.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
This isn't limited to Neverwinter. If it's possible to go through dungeons at a dead run, apparently most players will do just that. I think every once in awhile it's fun, but not every time, which is what seems to happen. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground though. It seems like dungeons started off as very long involved events, and developers realized people wanted them shorter and faster, so they made them shorter and faster, but still with some interesting mechanics. People just ignore it anyway. At some point, developers are just going to just put people in a maze, with waves of mobs to fight and call it a dungeon because it seems like that's what people want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It also comes fact that more people play MMOs nowdays. You can't have too hard or people will just avoid game all together. Problem is that developers or rather dungeon designers keep using same old templates and end up just easing stuff inside, because people want it. So you end up with long pipe with prize in the end. Radical new design is needed for dungeons and group content.
Unlimited amounts of healing took the teeth out of traps. A trap didn't always have to be deadly, they only had to nick you a few times to either make you face the next encounter wounded or with fewer healing spells/potions at your disposal. Dealing with the trap by disarming it or succeeding the proper save was a reward, not a necessity.
Now that you can easily heal up after a trap without losing anything for the next fight, traps are either a minor annoyance or an instant death that requires a rogue in your group to proceed.
Good post and the answer is simply, dungeons today are too easy, way too easy. So people can just run through them. If games bring back dungeons of old everyone will sit there crapping their pants afraid to move or pull anything unless the whole group is ready buffed, and on their toes, where one miss step equals a wipe. The problme is the developers caving into the palyers who want easy mode dungeons.
There should be no easy level, dungeons should start at a nightmare level.
the later dungeons in this game are not very easy imho.. also the epic level ones are downright hard.. well hard for me at least:P
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Most pugs are like that. try and find a group of like minded players/friends. Pugs tend to be composed of some of the lowest of the low. people to busy to talk who just want to steam roll content as fast as possible. There are a few exceptions to the rules but generally speaking friends don't let friends pug.
It will be interesting to see if the foundry will let players resolvethat issue. Unlike many games Neverwinter is not lmited by Deveolper content. i assume the foundry will let some DM's create some truely daunting death trap dungeons for those that dare to brave them.. Real question is will those that complain Developer dungeons are to easy actually play the harder player made ones or will they just go the route of least resistance and play the easy dungeons faster?
I'm also tired of folks running through the dungeons at breakneck speed, in any game. I quit playing WoW again partially because of it, and haven't even bothered to attempt any in GW2 yet.
What I wouldn't give to have dungeons on par with something out of Dark Souls, or Legend of Grimrock, in an MMO. A dungeon so dangerous that even once you know where all the hazards are, it can still eat a careless group for breakfast. Could you imagine a group of people trying to run full steam through Sen's Fortress? I can almost visualize all the raging...
And it's beautiful.
Yep, the first dungeon that started getting really meaty was Lair of the Mad Dragon, at level 30ish, which took my group just over 2 hours the first time we ran through it. Very long dungeon. I joined this dungeon as a group were up to the final boss, and it took me nearly 20 minutes just to run to the end with all the mobs cleared.
OP, if you are basing this assumption off the Cloak Tower, you are way off base. Later dungeons are LONG. With lots of secrets to find.
i cant wait too enter this mad dragon lair, and beat the snot out of this mad dragon!
Until that rogue playstyle (traps and stealthing) becomes important and the danger of traps becomes very serious, people will just run all over the place as there is little incentive to do otherwise.
But if one day those things return to rpgs, you will have a section of the playerbase who will complain that that forces rogues (and related skill sets) into groups which is offensive.
I wish games would allow what you want.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I understand your pain OP, cause I'm also one of these explorers that seem to extinct nowadays. MMORPGs tend to go the "dumber, faster, smaller, shallower"-path. Its a shame and Neverwinter is a prototype of these games.
For Neverwinter, I'm really looking forward to the point, when people start abusing the foundry and grinding some self created "experience bombs" dungeons.
Mark my words. A few weeks after the start, there will be some foundry dungeons, where you can easily grind, collect xp and loot without any effort. 95% of the people will grind those unbalanced dungeons and you will see exploitation and abuse in every corner. Happy farming in Neverwinter! Yay!
Hodor!
There is a way to make people not waltz trough dungeons.
Make traps insta kills, and incorperate a heavy penalty on death.
That would make people get on there toes, used to be like that on wow.
they had to CC each mob, and then kill one at a time, now its run go go go go
Complaining about PUGs is part of the MMO fabric. PUGs have always sucked since the days of EQ where people would try to forge ahead, get killed, ninja loot or whatever. Then they would lose their body and scream and whine for you to come corpse drag them.
Yes games these days have become too easy so you can pretty much faceroll through and get your awesome loot. I tend to see this as the result of a saturated market - if a game is too hard the devs and publishers are afraid you will quit and play one of the many other games out there.
But you can't only blame the low difficultly threshold of today's games. The internet affords people the opportunity to be entirely selfish and anti-social. Go into PUGs with this expectation, or otherwise meet some decent people who like to play the way you do.
I hate how people rush in games. Dungeons highlight this, and it happens in every game.
I remember Rift (last major themepark i raided and did hardmodes in) people would find bugged terrain so they could skip large patches of mobs, people found ways to glitch bosses and would do that rather than figure out how to beat the guy legit. Running in an exact line past tons of mobs as to not draw aggro and skip it all.
Just another means in which todays gamer generation attempts to suck every last bit of fun out of these games. Its sad really.