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Modern MMORPG's are DISGRACEFUL
DrCokePepsi
Member UncommonPosts: 177
I totally wrote this on another post, but it so perfectly displayed my anger in the gaming industry, especially in the MMO genre. I have been so fed up lately with money-grabbing,greedy, disgraceful, crap game development, I just HAVE to rant about this. So here it is, a beautiful copy-n-paste replica of my rant on some other forum thread.
~To anyone who says they're looking for a linear, themepark game rather than an open virtual world, simply get off of this site and play your shiny little Xbox 360. This site is meant for an MMORPG player, not a new generation console player who enjoys paying money through a sh*tty f2p business model for instant gratification in a so-called "MMO". A real mmorpg consists of these few base traits, an open virtual world, a large player-base, and your virtual avatar. It does not consist of an in-game shop full of cheap, pathetic routes to taking your money, it does not consist of material that has been reused one hundred times over (all of the WoW-clones) and it certainly does not take place on a trail of cheap content to keep you paying for hours on end. I'm so PO'd at all the modern console gamers trying to inch they're way into the MMO category, GTFO.
New-generation gamers have no clue what an mmo is and certainly have no care or thought. Money grabbing pests called businesses try to cater to every little tear that come out of these gamers with more simplistic crap. For god's sakes, if you really have to change this type of game so much simply to please these children, then these *children* shouldn't be catered to and the game should remain unchanged. Vanilla WoW/pre-NGE SWG for example, these games were so perfectly executed (LOL well SWG had it's issues, but nonetheless) they were capable of withholding a large, LOYAL, and thoroughly respectable playerbase. They understand what the game had to offer, including it's positives and negatives, and decided to stick with, and enjoy for some years.
That should be the description for a real MMO. Games now try, pathetically, to cater to every little whine and plead for a *simpler* or a *faster* levelling experience. This creates an ultimately temporary audience of 8 year olds. It's truly pathetic. Instead of making a select group or *niche* group of gamers left in pure nirvana, you're leaving a massive rotting cespool of bodies to play through the game, and dump it like a sh*t. There are no quality MMORPG's out there anymore. They're al degrading to this pay to win bullsh*t and/or an utterly disgraceful collection of quests just to leave you churning through hours of dull content. I used to LOVE MMO's with an ABSOLUTE passion. I am now almost dumping the entire genre because business, and greed, money, and a**holes in expensive suits don't play the games, they just want to get their money and ditch.
ONE more thing, if you EVER, ever, EVER, rate an MMORPG, or decide not to play it because- "the graphics suck"- You are part of the cause of the genre rotting to hell.
I may have digressed pretty hardcore, but im in a ranting mood like all hell. Lately MMO games have disappointed me to the point of anger and Lucasarts selling to DISNEY, then DISNEY shutting down the gaming branch and animation branch of Lucasarts REALLY PISSES ME OFF. THANK YOU DISNEY FOR WRECKING EVERYONE'S LIVES.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
Comments
As a SWG veteran i have to agree with you.Since then i have been trying almost every mmos, and i quit all of them.Makes me feel im playing a normal game but with more people in it.That mmo feel is lost.
lets see how Repopulation goes, looking foward for that.Dont loose hope my friend
Hmmm....well I don't know if I am the type of person you are ranting against. I started gaming around 2004 with Runescape and moved onto Guild Wars and then LOTRO, trying some free to play games and now settled into Guild Wars 2. I don't like console gaming and will only play on a PC. When I visit my brother in law he is usually playing Battlefield 3 on PS and he is usually trying to convince me console gaming is better. Anyway, I like some of these games you consider WoW clones like LOTRO, for example. Im a lifer in the game and find the story and community amazing. I never liked Wow, pre-Vanilla , chocolate or any other flavor. Where do I fit into you screed there? I would love to try an open world sandbox type of game. But from what i see these type of games become PvP free loot games, which I find a complete turn off. Im excited about the little we kinow about Everquest Next despite being skeptical about Sony games in general.
I guess basically I think having options is great. Let us have our themeparks and sandboxes. No need to throw stones at each other.
Also, graphics do matter. For me WoW just looks horrible. I cant take the cartoony graphics. Despite much acclaim Wildstar is getting, I feel it looks very similar and is the reason I doubt I will bother with it. Does that make me a bad person? Different strokes for different folks.
There is hope...
Millions more vidz, but this one gives the openess a good feel. (Vid)
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
As a ex-SWG player I find your post to be filled with way to emotion to be discussing video games. Thats all these are. Simply games to burn some time. You seem to have or want to have an emotional investment in a video game. I guess I just don't understand that. I just want to have fun.
You rant about this new generation of MMO players like you are somehow better than them. They are playing games and enjoying them. You are simply whining that you cant have things the way you want them. Everything is so disgraceful..bla bla bla. You lump all of these new players in to a tiddy little package that you can put all of the blame on. Kinda sad.
The truth is if any of those older games were good enough to attract a huge player base than we wouldn't be talking about WoW clones would we? Even though I loved SWG I could see why the game was never a big hit. It wasn't meant for everyone. It was a very niche game in what was at that time a very niche market. Times change and the industry evolves as it grows. How big is the most successful sandbox? 250k players? If you can't understand that the industry is just reacting to what people want than you are blind.
You just have to deal with the fact that AAA studios are not looking to please you. They are not looking for a niche game. There are plenty of smaller indy studios that are making games that you might enjoy. As someone else mentioned The Repopulation. That is a developer that I have actually given money to because I believe in their project. It is a game that I want to play. I see no reason to bash the modern MMO player for the state of this industry. They are just having a good time.
Being entertained by a form of entertainment is a bad thing?
Dont forget the 5 day long stories that dry up fast and then they come here expressing how bad the game is
Yes the players are a huge part of the problem and the developers not wanting to get off WOW's coat tails is another.
This is where I stopped reading.
(trying to bully people out of the room immediately forfiets any interest I might have had for your ideas; it's simply a matter of principal ... er, I mean principle)
Me too. Anything after a statement like that is just going to be a waste of time.
Well actualy he does have a good point. MMORPG's broke away from your normal console rpg's long ago to offer more to adults, since mmorpgs were mostly for adults back then. WOW came along and went after the kiddies. Since then its been a domino effect of grade and quality of games that have been released since then.
Console gamers flocked to mmorpg's, wanted them more like console games, and thats what the developers are going after.
MMORPG's are now being released with a hour stat like older consoles and shooters. Thats pathetic. This game has 80 hours of game play......... on a mmorpg?????
He may have gone to deep in the rant, but what he says is somewhat true.
Sorry OP, I can't hear you while you're all the way up there on your horse.
Maybe once you come on down with the rest of us and stop being so condescending & pompous we can have an actual conversation.
For my tastes, I agree. For others, a vast majority of others, I believe they would disagree. (You were rather harsh, though...)
For about 6 or 7 years, MMORPGs were of a "type", or style. Some of this style was limited by technology. Other parts were how the designers approached games. There were a small(ish) number of players then, maybe 2-5 million (totally guestimating) all told. There were some grumblers, for sure, but they were a smaller group. Many players may have tried out the MMORPGs and the games just never clicked for them. Many more players may have never heard of MMORPGs.
By the turn of the millennium, there were quite a few games to choose from, maybe 10-50. MMO Hut even made a list of "Top Ten Oldest MMORPGs." Each one was a little different from another, and each had their small following. It was like there was a small community enjoying their gaming in the form of MMORGs. A game's playerbase tended to grow by word of mouth without the aid of YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. I say again, a game's playerbase used to g-r-o-w after they released.
I am unsure how or when it happened, but sometime after 2004 (I don't think WoW was instantly a hit), the market became accessible to many, many more players. Innovations and access to the web helped spread the word about MMORPGs. Some of the "grumblers" from before got into positions to help create new MMORPGs and dispatched with a lot of what they found unpalatable in the older games.
Suddenly, in a matter of a couple years, the MMORPG genre was flooded with new players (tens of millions). Many players who tried MMORPGs in the past and did not like them, tried them again. In any case, the numbers grew dramatically. Those who liked the older MMORPGs witnessed their games change. "Us Old Timers" looked up from the genre to find that the games "we" enjoyed playing were slipping away. We were now outnumbered by these new players wanting a different kind of gaming experience than "we" wanted. Heck, these new players even broke up into other groups and still outnumbered "us old timers" by millions for each group.
Some old timers have adapted and find fun with the new games. Some even like the new improvements better than "the way it was." Others refuse to adapt "on principle", hoping maybe one day the tide will turn. Still other old timers try almost every new game seeking... that special something.
I will say that I can find "fun" in almost every game I try. I just have trouble finding the same kinds of fun that I had with the old MMORPGs. For me, the fun I find does not justify the price of gaming today. $60 for three-quarters of a game? (The rest can be purchased in the cash shop.)
The genre has changed.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You make it sound like these statments are fact. The old MMOs where just as crappy with almost no features what-so-ever. People just look back on them with rose colored glasses. If they really were as great as ppl say....they'd still be playing them and not bitching about how no one makes new games like that. Most of the ppl I game with who don't hang out on this site don't think all new games suck. they actually enjoy them...and they're all over 30 and don't own consoles.
A massive game back then was 400k people. Now days if a game only gets that many people all you get is " oh this game failed big time "
Games need massive budgets to pay to create games that have mass appeal. Those games aren't going to appeal to the die hard old school mmo players who want a box with a stick in it and told here you go have fun with it.
Games are now made for consumers who are going to go play the next big thing no matter how good your game is. This is why they make games the way they do. It has nothing to do with being lazy or trying to go after consol gamers. They're going where the money is because it's how they survive.
I'm a little disappointed in MMORPG.com.
Only 56% in favor?
If this keeps up, you'll lose your reputation for sure!
I voted in favor of modern, gameplay-centric MMORPGs. Just like the majority has voted (with their wallets.)
I'm an adult. My time is too precious to waste on non-gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Real MMO" post number 458436....
Did that ever came up to your mind that the problem might be you and not the MMOs?
Heresy!, thou shall question the industry not, Smitheth be ye and thy kin till amends be made and followeth ye the rightful path once more. Opened shall be thy wallet and accept ye shall the foul taste as sweet honey, for this is the time of the bland the only true religion.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I've heard this nonsense for so long on these forums. It's a shame how quickly this ignorance spread. Make no mistake either, blaming the players is ignorant. The issue is more complicated than that. Not all games are the same and people certainly aren't. Some people like what they have, some people like what they used to have and they often like them for different reasons. Likewise some people, especially people on these forums don't like current MMOs.
Your condescending blanket statement that “.The players became lazy, spoiled, and entitled “ may be true for the certain players but it certainly doesn't justify the industry choosing to try and cater for those players at the expense of others does it?
Infact I could say the problem is the industry only recognizes and caters to the lowest denominator like you do but that would be almost as foolish as blaming the gamers. It would be foolish because not all games have tried to copy or slightly modify the “Wow formula” in an attempt to grab as much cash as they can. There have been many unique MMOs. Even though there have been certain games that have tried to dumb down their experience so they can appeal to a wider audience and make more money it doesn't mean all games have done it. Similarly it's like how your silly statement that “The players became lazy, spoiled, and entitled “ might be true for some it doesn't mean all players have and it certainly doesn't justify blaming the gamer for the state of the industry.
Having the audacity to expand on a broad and unfair generalization to imply that I know what gamers think and that I know better than they do in regards to what they want would be even worse.
Bottom line is there are a significant variety of games despite what many on these boards would have you believe and there isn't only one reason why people like and dislike what they play. Blaming all gamers for the big publishers focuss on a few gamers is just BS. Furthermore it's unlikely that someone knows what other people want better than they know it themselves when those people themselves are unique as are their desires. Maybe some analyst might be able to judge the mass appeal better, ofcourse, but even they wouldn't be likely to judge an individual better than that individual can judge themselves and I certainly don't think some over confident, self opinionated forum junkie can.
Anytime anyone goes on about 'real MMOs' or 'True MMOs', they are already blowing pretty hard.
I know I looked at all those 'classic' games, and the negatives outweighed the positives for me.
Too bad there aren't games that hit your sweet spot. It's great if everyone has some sort of thing that they really want to play. But you can often see very picky comments, about any new game, of how it's got or not got that one feature that makes it unplayable. Games have to be designed and funded to match the player base they're going to get. Or else, the crash and burn. So maybe you aren't going to get everything you want. Support the one's that are going more your way. Because there is no one 'true' way.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Hold it right there buddy. You cant equate, not still playing a game that we've played for years, to saying that games, that we drop after a month in disgust, are better since we played those recently.
You have a point when you say that games are made for consumers.. They are made to be consumed.. gobbled up and spat out.. over and done with.. And that is a shame.
The reason MMOs need so massive budgets now is because they are designed like single player campaigns.. Full of quests and the next epic loot.
What I liked about MMOs back in the day was the world, exploring, crafting, and once in a while you got to do a quest or found a magic piece of gear. I also enjoyed fighting for my realm in RvR in DAoC or for my corp in EvE.
The quests in modern MMOs are so plentiful its a nuissance. And its a expensive substitute, though one that is readily attainable, to an interesting and immersive game world.
What made my favorite games my favorites was not the amount of "content" I could play through. It was that I was playing a virtual person in a virtual world.. And that I wasnt just a punter with a tour pass for all the rides.
To go back to my original argument though. Yeah Im not playing DAoC or EvE anymore. Played both for about 5 years. And it was great.
But DAoC stopped evolving to keep up with standards.. And before that I was unhappy with some of the new additions they had made.
With EvE it was simply a case of having done most things in the game. And when the corporation I was in disbanded I didnt really feel like starting on a new chapter of my characters story.
WoW I played for less than 6 months.. and any other game, Ive tried since, Ive played for about a month. Some had promise, but were launched with masses of features missing or poorly implemented. Others were very polished, but where just another quest/dungeon/arena grinder.
Another whiny princess bitching about the bloody pea and demanding more mattress's.
Grow up Princess.
This entire statement is trash.
Old games had no features? Are you serious or just trolling? Older games had 100 times more features in them than in todays games. Much more to do than your 5 day long story with crappy voice acting.
400k back then is about equal to a few million today considering only 1 in 20 had internet back then compared to 1 in 3 today. 400k was a huge number and nothing to feel shameful about.
Games also lasted for years upon years, not months like today. Some still hold a steady number of player even today.
Saying old games didnt have features lol. Thats funny. I guess your idea of features is hand held path finding, no exploration, small maps, 5 day long story, hit max level in 3 days, no crafting, no housing, no social aspects, no interaction with animals/creatures in your game world, no grouping, no player created content? because thats what your new games are today. Only a fraction of what older games offered.
But the kiddies want em fast and easy like a console rpg, so the developers go after that market. Not because its better, but because thats where the money is at. And 95% of them fail. We see more companies go bankrupt, sell out, flop more so now than the first 10 years of the industry. When the games and companies should have failed the most.
Even WOW said they were targeting the younger crowd. Its pretty cut and dry.
Pretty much my sentiment as well.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The problem is people actually play those games. Developer is just giving people what they want.
They could be making interesting games for those people like the OP which is hard to please, or they could just make "bad but addictive" games. "Hey swing your sword 1000 times and we'll give you another sword to swing 1000 times"