Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
"Worst community in the business."
Wepps
Member Posts: 1,322
I've been around the SWG main boards in the past, and have seen these times when they get all riled up and upset with the SWG team.
I've been in the game the now countless times that a sizeable group of <insert interested people here> is protesting an SOE action, and lagging out Theed...the typical place for such protests.
I know how the game feels at certain population levels, and it almost was reaching a crescendo of accounts just before the NGE was released. I'm here to tell you, the 400k figure that SOE was tossing about was false.
But I've never seen the boards this bad. I've never seen the posts upon posts upon posts in other gaming sites of people flocking to it from SWG. If attention is what they wanted, they got it. The polls around the MMO watch boards are totally negative in such large percentages, that SOE may have gotten a permanent black eye from this one.
They've admitted to unethically going around to those sites and skewing the polls. They've openly lied to the customers. And once again, they have provided a non-working product to the public that is borderline criminal in that people with disabilities can no longer play after paying their subscriptions.
All this, and the community is ignored in every one of those issues. What's the reason? Read the boards. Whereas before a person was banned for being cynical, the avalanche of hatred has become so great that they are forced to call in the board moderators from other SOE products to contain it, and they are failing. People no longer care if they are banned, and THIS is what makes it a dangerous time for the SWG team.
I know what has been said inside the walls of the tower. Somebody had to say it sooner or later. "This is the worst community of all of the MMOs."
With their actions, though, SOE has made this bed and now they have to lie in it. So from the people who for years were dying for a great Star Wars MMO to enjoy, we offer something in return for you to chew on...
"This is the worst development team in the business."
And this is why the community is the way it is today.
SOMEBODY in authority has to get it in their heads that the management of this product has shown clear signs of total incompetence and needs to be booted OUT, in favor of efficient go-getters who have a bug-up about Star Wars. Everybody responsible needs to leave, or the bacterial infection called 'failure' will only spread from that person eventually.
By now, I see no other option. With each passing interation of SWG, the team has come closer and closer to violating the law of the land with their unethical practices. But this is the first time in its history where so many law suits have been warmed up against SOE. For this reason alone I would step down from the high seat and get back to the roots. I would get realistic, and bring myself to the level of the players. And lastly, I would make the appropriate changes to the team that are required to slap the paddles on the chest of SWG and bring it back from the brink of death.
No matter how you spin it, the SWG management is at fault. Your attempts to place the blame on everything from the economy to the community have failed, and its time to stop blamestorming. The fault...is yours.
If these heroic changes need to be made, I would start with your so-called...focus groups, and see to it they never work in the industry again.
Nothing but new blood will save it now, and this gesture to the community I feel is the only way to bring any trust back after what you have done, in the manner in which it was done.
Signed,
"Worst community in the business"
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Comments
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
I know.
It's the concept of, there is only so much a customer will take and they have finally crossed way over that line.
In its current form, this new game is a total disaster. Everything from design to bugs is out of whack. They should have known instinctively that if they are going to make this much of a change that it would have to be done perfectly.
This whole problem started all the way back with Koster. His game design philosophies are what caused the first major changes in the first place, and led to the CU. But THIS. This game has become the missile testing ground for new and radical ideas, rather than a concentration on the needs of the community.
This disease needs to be wiped out before it spreads to the rest of the industry, I mean it.
If SOE gets away with this mess, the rest of the industry will follow as they have in the past. This is not the direction to go, and I don't mean in the details of the NGE itself. I mean in its implementation and ignorance of community needs.
By my guestimate, SOE is directly responsible for over two million players who have sworn off MMOs altogether. This by itself is a hit to the industry, and this is why you see so many interested parties in other products commenting when in the past they haven't.
If allowed to continue, that number may double, and more.
It's time they get it into their heads that the community demands, and is warranted, a working product with at least a minimal of entertainment value throughout. The current method of putting out unfinished products in the name of lack of funds, or lack of creativy, must come to a halt. THIS will kick the problem over the edge and may bring an end to the industry's future.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
nice
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
nice
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
This is why only the brave that are actually enjoying SWG at the moment dare post their opinions on the forums. Anyone who even hints at liking the changes is told they suck, their opinion is wrong,etc etc. Who's going to bother posting when they know that is going to happen to them? Some people in game I've talked to are SCARED to go to the forums lol, as who knows what horrid things lie in a pleasent sounding thread (scat porn was being posted in some threads for instance).
Well like Anarchyart for example, he is enjoying the changes. If I were playing, I probably would be too. However, the veteran characters are technically in a game-stoppage. They only considered the minimal once again, and didn't properly test what they were implementing in the name of their godly time-table.
I have always cried for immersion, and it is now being provided at least minimally. I can see it in the changes. I can't dispute that the changes are good for the game.
BUT in their current state they are disastrous, a word people better get used to in the near future.
I have a tendency to view SWG development as a child. People point out that there are problems with the child, and it throws a tantrum. This is a tantrum.
But this time, the community is not going quietly into that good night. And it's about time they demanded customer service and quality of product from SOE. No matter how SOE tries to remove these issues through the EULA, these are the basic rights of the consumer and SOE is really pushing it this time.
edit - In its current state, SWG is about halfway through beta in condition. The proper thing to do would be to assign it that beta status until it is fully repaired, with all the content and design implemented. THEN release the Starter Kit. It's the only ethical thing to do, and is the real basis of a law suit. The product hasn't changed as much as the product doesn't work through their own action.
Claiming that "game experience may change" will not hold up this time.
An excellent example of what I'm talking about occured as I was making this post.
ALL SOE servers are now offline, including European ones, so this is not scheduled maintenence. Yet, not a word as to what is going on. No patch notes, no explanations, in fact no CMs in the forums at all at this time.
This lack of respect for the community from this team has gotten so out of hand, they don't even feel it's warranted to explain why you can't get online this morning. If you follow it to its logical conclusion, this ongoing tantrum being thrown by SWG development can only end in its total failure.
This is certainly NOT the time for this kind of treatment to the customers, given the volatility of the situation. Clearly this shows incompetence beyond measure.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Flip side is use to be after re inventing the wheel again the game settled into a a playable state but there are still so many unresolved issues with nge that is keeping that state from happening.
So instead of back in the game or trying to figure the nge out they are experaincing backlash like never before, simply because of certain parts being unplayable at the moment .
Did they actually blame the community publicly? Do you have a link to that post?
That's galling. A community where the majority didn't want the CU.. yet many rolled with it and dealt with it. Now the nge...
The community stuck with them in spite of what they tried to do to us. With the coming city changes destroying the homes we built, I keep asking myself why.
Why are they doing everything they can to get rid of us?
$OE: "We have these changes, you like them?"
Community: "No, they are bugged, and not near what we asked for."
$OE: "Well here they are, you WILL like them if you know what's good for you."
Community: "Well, we'll deal with it anyway."
$OE: "Don't get used to it, we're changing it all again in 6 months."
Community: "Well then I quit"
$OE: "You quit? After all we did for you, you ungrateful &%*#s."
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well like Anarchyart for example, he is enjoying the changes. If I were playing, I probably would be too. However, the veteran characters are technically in a game-stoppage. They only considered the minimal once again, and didn't properly test what they were implementing in the name of their godly time-table.
I have always cried for immersion, and it is now being provided at least minimally. I can see it in the changes. I can't dispute that the changes are good for the game.
BUT in their current state they are disastrous, a word people better get used to in the near future.
I have a tendency to view SWG development as a child. People point out that there are problems with the child, and it throws a tantrum. This is a tantrum.
But this time, the community is not going quietly into that good night. And it's about time they demanded customer service and quality of product from SOE. No matter how SOE tries to remove these issues through the EULA, these are the basic rights of the consumer and SOE is really pushing it this time.
edit - In its current state, SWG is about halfway through beta in condition. The proper thing to do would be to assign it that beta status until it is fully repaired, with all the content and design implemented. THEN release the Starter Kit. It's the only ethical thing to do, and is the real basis of a law suit. The product hasn't changed as much as the product doesn't work through their own action.
Claiming that "game experience may change" will not hold up this time.
An excellent example of what I'm talking about occured as I was making this post.
ALL SOE servers are now offline, including European ones, so this is not scheduled maintenence. Yet, not a word as to what is going on. No patch notes, no explanations, in fact no CMs in the forums at all at this time.
This lack of respect for the community from this team has gotten so out of hand, they don't even feel it's warranted to explain why you can't get online this morning. If you follow it to its logical conclusion, this ongoing tantrum being thrown by SWG development can only end in its total failure.
This is certainly NOT the time for this kind of treatment to the customers, given the volatility of the situation. Clearly this shows incompetence beyond measure.
Wepps, your right that the community has a right to be pissed off. Think about this though. The moderators are not the ones to blame for all of this. Every time a moderator goes on those forums they get flamed down. Would you want to help those people after that? I sure as well would't. I'd say screw them. However, if I seen well written posts on what's wrong and their suggestions on how to fix it, I would respond. As of right now though, you can't get to any posts like these, because the bad apples are running the forums now and won't let anyone speak without flaming them to death.
Well like Anarchyart for example, he is enjoying the changes. If I were playing, I probably would be too. However, the veteran characters are technically in a game-stoppage. They only considered the minimal once again, and didn't properly test what they were implementing in the name of their godly time-table.
I have always cried for immersion, and it is now being provided at least minimally. I can see it in the changes. I can't dispute that the changes are good for the game.
BUT in their current state they are disastrous, a word people better get used to in the near future.
I have a tendency to view SWG development as a child. People point out that there are problems with the child, and it throws a tantrum. This is a tantrum.
But this time, the community is not going quietly into that good night. And it's about time they demanded customer service and quality of product from SOE. No matter how SOE tries to remove these issues through the EULA, these are the basic rights of the consumer and SOE is really pushing it this time.
edit - In its current state, SWG is about halfway through beta in condition. The proper thing to do would be to assign it that beta status until it is fully repaired, with all the content and design implemented. THEN release the Starter Kit. It's the only ethical thing to do, and is the real basis of a law suit. The product hasn't changed as much as the product doesn't work through their own action.
Claiming that "game experience may change" will not hold up this time.
An excellent example of what I'm talking about occured as I was making this post.
ALL SOE servers are now offline, including European ones, so this is not scheduled maintenence. Yet, not a word as to what is going on. No patch notes, no explanations, in fact no CMs in the forums at all at this time.
This lack of respect for the community from this team has gotten so out of hand, they don't even feel it's warranted to explain why you can't get online this morning. If you follow it to its logical conclusion, this ongoing tantrum being thrown by SWG development can only end in its total failure.
This is certainly NOT the time for this kind of treatment to the customers, given the volatility of the situation. Clearly this shows incompetence beyond measure.
Wepps, your right that the community has a right to be pissed off. Think about this though. The moderators are not the ones to blame for all of this. Every time a moderator goes on those forums they get flamed down. Would you want to help those people after that? I sure as well would't. I'd say screw them. However, if I seen well written posts on what's wrong and their suggestions on how to fix it, I would respond. As of right now though, you can't get to any posts like these, because the bad apples are running the forums now and won't let anyone speak without flaming them to death.
There use to be a general games board in the forums just a few days ago
There was a community there that loved to chat with each other Email pms and generally had a good time.
With the new forums it is the only place left the majority can go to get answers. It is clear the powers that be are not responding, and if they do respond they are flamed badly. While it may or may not be warranted, the fact is major changes to game play happened for some of us it shut us out of the nge completely
For others they see there friends list dwindle once again pas die cities die and are frustrated.
Whatever may happen could be a bit easier to go through if more information was given, the ostrich can only stick head in the sand so long before even the supporters go oh well i did try
The mods have been purging the goodbye posts, even the non-ranting types.
I'm beginning to think the mods know as much as we do.. possibly less.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
If SWG can survive this episode, I'll place the game along with the cockroach in terms of survivability. I don't think even a nuclear holocaust would kill the game.
Kettemoor was my original home and I still keep tabs on the galaxy, visiting the site at least once a day. Ever since the news about the NGE was released, the forum's been filled with negative or 'I'm leaving ...' threads. On a positive note, I'm able to play with most of my SWG friends as most are going to WoW. ^_^
I still say that SOE/LA doesn't give too much thought to its PC community any longer. The NGE was designed for consoles and that's where SOE/LA are hedging their bets.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Hehe, a New York cockroach to be exact Ico. If a nuclear holocaust comes the dev team is just going to be a bunch of brain eating zombies.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I loved the way the game was pre-cu. I adapted and still enjoyed playing the game post-cu. But I put everything I had been doing on hold for about 6-10 weeks while waiting for them to work through finishing some of the changes to where it was more playable. I didn't appreciate having to learn how to play the game again. And although the grind became easier, overall game play wasn't as much fun. It was a new game ultimately.
I think more people stayed with the CU because it was Star Wars than because they liked the CU. And ultimately I reached the point in a love/hate relationship to the game that I hated it as much as I loved it. Part of that stems from seeing publishes that finally fixed things like DOT's and elemental damage months after the fact. I got tired of seeing the latest gifts, bells, and whistles while existing issues took 4-6 months to get to. They made it easy to get xp. Then they waited and nerfed it tremendously, only to pull part of the change back out when they saw the community uproar. The trend doesn't show any form of game stability.
If the original game just wasn't cutting it, they should have taken the time to create a second game from scratch. Build it from the ground up. And actually take the time to get it in working order before launching it. They should have made it public that they needed to overhaul the game. Then let the community have some honest idea of what they were really doing in advance. People have more respect for a process in which they are informed rather than blind sided. They nerfed the community on both rewrites. That creates outrage. And they've learned about community response in the past. The way they are handling it now is not from ignorance of what to do. It's policy. The moderators take the brunt of the abuse as a result. And they're the furthest from the blame.
I know there are people who like the latest version of the game. And I hope the NGE turns out to be what they intended to do with the CU when they didn't have time to do it right. But who knows. It's not company policy to have an informed player base. And you can't trust anything they do say publicly. I learned that from the CU experience. It's not about people. It's about business. And I don't do business with people who fail utterly at customer service. That's a whole other subject in itself with them.
To those who are liking the NGE, congrats on what may be the final product. I hope the game thrives again for you and for the friends I have who like it. And also for those who are indifferent or persevere even if they don't like it. I put down my lightsaber and gave it up just before the NGE was announced myself.
It is not the fact that they are changing the game. Many players know the game was dying and it needed some serious tweaks and rewrites - combat being one of them. What players are upset about is how SOE is doing it. They lied to us - outright, blatent lied. They withheld information from us regarding the changes that were in the works, all the while they were making us believe they were working on the existing game as it was. They even had the gall to release an expansion and then two days later it was obsolete due to the NGE.
I want changes, I want the game to be good, but not the way SOE is doing it. They are going about it all wrong. You can see it for yourself. They announce the NGE 2 days after the release of ToOW, they rush it to TC and then 2 weeks later(bugs, flaws and all) they push it live. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Do we players have a right to be pissed off. You better believe it. Some of us have been playing since day 1.
What is with these boards double posting?
It's not SOE's fault, and it's not LA's fault. It's the fault of both. Add both companies together, and they dream in triplicate.
When they released the information about the NGE, who was giving the interviews with press, namely Gamespot? Nancy MacIntyre. Who the hell is Nancy MacIntyre? Lucasarts. But wait, isn't the project lead someone at SOE? Apparently not.
The suits run the show for SWG. Blixtev himself said that if they told him to "put a toliet in the living room", he could try to make the toliet fit in as much as possible, but that toliet's going there no matter what. Who makes the high decisions? Certainly not anyone who's interacting with the community.
That's the problem, and it's not just poor communication of SOE or LA running the game, it's both.
Then again, for my money, i'd put more blame on LA than anyone else.
With regards to SOE you hit the nail on the head. Trust me, as someone would had plenty of exposure to SOE from an EQ standpoint, that is just how it is. Some games have a solid group of fun-loving devs behind it, and some games have a bunch of suits licking their thumbs and counting money. Some of the EQ expansions were massively broken and shoved out the door anyhow and I can see this trend hasn't changed. What is sad is that there is no accountability; no minimum level of quality that these games have to meet. It could be completely broken, but as long as the money is coming in every month, it's apparently a green light for companies like SOE to continue this kind of behavior.
What the gaming community really needs is for a game like SWG to tank horribly - to send a clear message to gaming companies that this kind of garbage won't be tolerated.
So I'm a new kid to these forums, but trying to say anything on the official SWG forums, as you know, it mute. It's nice to hear valid points about the NGE and SOE & LA's lack of customer service. I have been playing SWG for awhile, not since day 1, but long enough to feel alienated by the changes. I can most certainly appreciate the need for change, especially combat, however, going from over 30 proffession choices to 9 very limited ones is irritating to say the least. Individuality of the players has been compromised without the hybrid proffs. I loved the idea of new quests and I was really excited about the new loot and combat style. I have not quit yet, I am trying to see if they get it together. I just log in now to say hi to my friends, who are quickly dropping off one by one. The servers are desolate now and getting worse. How can a community based game succeed without it's community? The SWG players are angry and rightfully so. There are numerous bugs that have been ignored, and their answer was more content? The artisans and merchants are obsolete since removing item decay. The jedi are laughable not to mention overpopulated. The controls for movement are frustrating as hell, targeting is maddening. The entertainers are now useless as there is no need for grinding xp. The new quests and mission would be awesome if you could complete them. PVP no longer exists. I could go on for hours. Basically, I bought a game I loved, dropped a lot of money into it, such as memory to reduce lag and 3 expansions. Now I have a completely different game. If I wanted a first person shooter, I'd have bought one instead. I kinda wish I did.
Astreia Darkmoon; Tarquinas Drunk Wookiee