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Major Turbine Billing Glitch - players are being charged thousands of dollars
TehKid
Member Posts: 5
I was charged for 2 inactive Asheron's Call subsciptions and there's reports of a few Dungeon and Dragon Online players being charged upwards of $1,600 and $1,775 by Turbine (also aka WB Games).
Source: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=415612
https://www.asheronscall.com/en/forums/showthread.php?60085-Anyone-else-double-charged-this-month
A Turbine developer posted yesterday:
This impacted a limited number of players after the maintenance work, and we have a list of the affected users. We're working with our partners to make sure that over charges are reversed. You do not need to contact us to receive help, but if you have any questions you are welcome to call or send a ticket (phone is 1-855-WBGAMES and tickets contact can be done via http://support.turbine.com).
--Tolero
They did not relay this message across ALL of their products (Asheron's Call and/or Lord of the Rings Online), and trust-be-told, it is not a 'limited number of players'. Not really happy I had to discover these charges through my bank.
Turbine is gonna hurt.
If you were even a former customer of Turbine (Asheron's Call, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online), I suggest you check your banking statements for any unusal charges.
This billing glitched occured on 4/22 around 7-8AM EST.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Are you saying the charges on your account haven't been reverse yet? I'm not following the reason for the sensationalistic title over a problem that has been resolved or the "Turbine is going to hurt" comment.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When a business says "Don't contact us, we're on top of it" what they really mean "There's a short pier, why don't you go for a long walk..."
Correct - charges have NOT yet been reversed.
Edit: And the charges happened on Monday morning. Sorry for sensenationalizing, but its better to be safe than sorry.
Some of the poeple in the ddo forums are at minus 900 pounds in their bank accounts, have no money for food,gas, etc etc. One of them even has a young child and has had to ask friends and family to help with money and food.
We warned them not to do the changes they wanted to implement and they didn't listen. This has to be the biggest fuk up from Turbine I have ever seen. It's not just not recieving a store purchase or problem with a game or bug within the game but with real people with real families.
Whom ever was in charge of this fuk up needs to be fired, nothing less. Unbelievable!
Source
Also in the same thread:
[QUOTE]Hi everyone.
Firstley thank you for the thread hirosue. I am one of the unfortunate ppl to have been hit by this. And yes ive submitted a ticket and awaiting turbines response.
This is unacceptable I am £900 down. it has cleared my account, my card has been frozen. I have a 2 year old girl who I cannot provide for and have had to BEG family and friends for money for food.
This post is not an attack on any players on here, im just hoping tht turbine will read this and understand the position they have put me in.
After this is sorted I will never ever give turbine my bank details again. I will never play DDO again which is a damn shame as its such a good game. A lot of my friends tht play are also cancelling there subs.
Turbine please contact me asap so we can get this sorted and I hope anybody else that is suffering gets sorted soon.
Thanks
Ras[/QUOTE]
Link
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
My prayers go out to the guy. You never see something like that coming. I hope they get it resolved ASAP.
Edit: What kills me is that there are people that are still willing to give them money. A double charge or even triple charge I could forgive. But being charge 1000+ dollars. I wouldn't touch any product you made ever again, even if it didn't happen to me.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Just occurred to me, shouldn't people who had this happen to them be contacting their banks to reverse the charges?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How to handle your customers' money the right way:
.
1: Only take Credit (& Debit) cards, avoid direct bank payments and phone/text stuff
2: Only "Authorize" the payment, (freezes the amount), with your automatic system.
3: Have a human being "Capture" the payment, (moves the $$$), once they take a glance to see that everything is in order.
Yeah, what bank is allowing that many charges or that much for that matter. I know my bank if it's over $250 I have to call them to allow it, they also will only allow me 2 charges a minute, and I can't use my card in brazil, china, or the UK (since like 90% of all CC fraud happens in those 3 countries)...at least that's what my bank told me. I didn't get the charge, but sucks if I did, cuz my bank would shut my card down and call me lol.
This is beyond unacceptable. Especially for the people who were literally cashed out on there cards and can’t buy basic needs due to a false charge... I don’t know what they can do to fix it but they better do something. So far my account looks untouched but I still need to check more. I think I may have deleted my card (as payment method, something I typically do with all MMOs) when I unsubscribed.
This is exactly why I go for non-recurring subscriptions.
I hope everyone who has experienced financial hardship because of Turbine's massive screw-up gets things fixed quickly. I also hope that Turbine will do the right thing and sufficiently compensate these people for their trouble as well (although I doubt that will happen).
Any company can make a mistake. What matters most is how they set it right.
Not gonna happen and I will adress your points why.
1. Microtransaction model base their success on accesibility, so they try to accept as many payment methods as it's only possible. This is to allow everyone (from kid to grandpa and from rural area in poor country to rich guy from Manhattan) to pay.
What you propose (Credit & Debit Card only + maybe PayPal & max one more virtual pocket like Moneybookers) can be used and is still used - but by diffrent products & services. Ones that don't depend on maximum accessibility.
2. Because of many payment models some of which don't allow "freezing" and because of business relying on big amount of small&big purcharses rather that on smaller amount of bigger purcharses -that;s not used.
3. Remember microtransaction business models - use huge amount of smaller and bigger payments. Not possbile to make human authorization.
What you propose - is good and is actually used (minus human autorization of every payment), but don't expect this to be used in microtransaction business models. It's does not fit them.
This is why I green dot my MMOG transactions. they can't take what isn't there. I highly doubt Turbine is being any where near honest about the number of players effected and to what degree. Why would they? if you have an account with them and have the game client on your computer they are not responsible and infact your legally obligated to defend them...from their EULA (they capped it not me):
"6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose.
7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT."
They can't be sued, they can't be pressed for hard truth, technically even this topic is a violation of their EULA (if your not completely defending them and claiming them to be free of all blame, and you hold an active account with them and have their products on your machine)...
And, this kind of thing is ridiculous. It should be against fair trade laws and regulations to even offer an EULA like that. Plus it's a waste of character space when they could have just said "you are our biotch...in all senses of the word, until such time as we dismiss you with the back of our hand."
It is protected by law! An EULA like that will be blown to pieces in court!
All the EULA tries to do, is scare off their customers and hope they don't bring it to court.
A feck up like this, that directly affects people's real lives! Like depleting entire bank accounts and so putting people's families to harm can be brought to court and this EULA will be blown to pieces!
So if Turbine doesn't resolve this quickly enough, reverse the charges and compensate people. Than the people affected will have a very strong case against Turbine in court.
I recieved a call from my credit card company, they asked if I chared x ammount, as that would have put me way over the credit limit. You know some cards have a security department and they do call when they see a bogus charge or something out of the ordinary. Long story short I told them I did not authorize that charge. My card has been turned off while they issue me a new one. Yes it is a pain in the rear but compared to some of the other folks have had happen to them, I think I got off easy. And from the way it sounds its not an isolated problem.
What exactly is protected by what laws? and how precisely can that EULA be 'blown to pieces'? Don't just say things because they sound good.
...Contracts are typically upheld in court as long as they are legally binding. If they use clear and comphehensible language, and do not directly violate any laws in their terms, and they are signed (when you click I agree or continue you are giving a digital signiture), then they are legally binding. And, yes you can dismiss rights you would otherwise have in signing a contract that would have you do such.
The EULA is not a binding contract that can be upheld in court and protect Turbine for negligence.
It's just a scare off mechanism used by these companies.
Isn't Turbine 'on the wrong' here? Not that Turbine is the worst company ever, but there has been no formal announcement regarding this billing glitch. The best you'll find are developer replies on the forums. And they did announce a Lord of the Rings expansion pack yesterday lol
No action should be required on your part to get this resolved. However, if you would be more comfortable speaking with someone directly, please call us at 1-855-WBGAMES or send us a ticket through http://support.turbine.com. We do have a list of affected folks, and are working to make sure that all overcharges are reversed, and all outstanding issues resolved.
--Cordovan (Turbine Community Relations)
I received a refund for one $12.95 payment so far. I'm still owed another $12.95. And I never received an email.
It can very easily be argued that the unauthorized withdrawal of a significant about of cash from your account is outside the "use of the game or the game client".
Oderint, dum metuant.
I bought a LT sub with LOTRO when it launched, and do not have any payment detaiils stored with them, as do not need a monthly sub, and any purcahses are done with the monthly grant of Turbine points.
This problem has occured before by another company though, and I have been reluctant in giving payment details to anyone, but pre-paid cards are good, as you just load it with just enough funds to pay for these things. If this did affect me, it would just take away money set aside for gaming, and not take away money for bills and living.
Also one bank, not that long ago, think it was Natwest / RBS, had problems, and froze peoples finances for weeks.
Within the last week, I have been shafted too - Lovefilm charged me twice (now refund), and Zavvi over charged me on an item ordered (refund in process). Plus stuff I have bought online over the last 2 weeks, have not been delivered.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012